Robbk

Yes, Frank Brown owned and managed Valtone. I hadn't seen Val's name, but I assume (guess) that "Val" was his wife, named Valerie. I have read that Joe Matthews was a group member, and sometimes lead (I remember them having different leads on different songs).

I used to have long conversations with Kris on SDF. She hasn't showed up there for several years. None of Ralph and Russ Terrana, Dennis Coffey, Clay MacMurray, Spyder Turner, Jack Ashford, or any of the other people active in Detroit in the mid and late '60s, who posted on Soulful Detroit could answer that question when we first asked it back in 2001. The problem is that I'm not on ANY of the new media (Facebook, Instagram, and the like).

No, you aren't. I dislike it, intensely.

You are probably right. In any case, I can't place the singer's voice.

Sorry. I don't recognise that voice. He doesn't sound like any of the other male early teen singers I know. I don't remember anyone from Philadelphia that might be him.

He definitely is the Chicago producer/arranger who worked with Tyrone Davis and Jerry Butler. But there's no reference to any singing at all,- not even as a youth. He seems to have been way too busy as a musician to have been a singer, too. I doubt that he was a member of The Classics. So, I doubt that he sang "My World Is On Fire". I guess we'll probably never know. But maybe we should try to get ahold of Marty Coleman and Bassoline, IF they are still alive. They might remember that session. There was also Jimmy McHugh. But his voice was a LOT different from Jimmy Mack's.

Bob Abrahamian said that all the Detroit people he talked to didn't remember ANY Jimmy Mack appearing in Detroit. The same was told me by Ralph and Russ Terrana, who were running Terra-Shirma Studios in 1966, when Mike Terry recorded Jimmy Mack there. They said they didn't remember that session, and even if they did, they wouldn't have heard his real (non-stage name). Bob A. said that a large stock of that Palmer Record was found in Chicago, so, it could possibly have been James Mack's, and that James Mack (arranger on several Classics' sessions, and who arranged for others, like Tyrone Davis, MAY have been a singing member of The Classics (but, he never heard of any Chicago record by him to compare voices). So, maybe Ron Murphy was right that Jimmy Mack came from Chicago. Maybe James Mack is also the same as the rumoured Chicago artist, Jimmy (James) McDonald? Unfortunately, most of the people we'd guess were at the recording session, Mike Terry, Mike Valvano, Russ Terrana, Ralph Terrana, Dennis Coffey, Bob Babbit, Ray Monette, Marty Coleman(co-producer) are either deceased (1st two), or were already asked, and said either they don't remember the session, or they never heard his real name, or where he came from. Probably he only real hope is contacting Marty Coleman (AKA Cohen), IF he is still alive. He was a former member of The Valadiers, and co-produced and co-wrote many songs together with Mike Valvano. There is also a small possibility that the songs other Co-writer Bassoline (who wrote many other songs together with Valvano and Coleman, may have been at the recording session, or, at least, may know who Jimmy Mack was, or from where he came.

He was also a member of The Mello-Dees and The Lovetones/Love-Tones during the 1950s.

So, The Hamster singer was Jimmy McMillan, and I confused him with Chicago's Jimmy McDonald. So, the stories I heard about the Chicago producer, were probably about Jimmy McDonald. But, apparently, Bob Abrahamian never heard anything about McDonald singing. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean he never recorded. How many people knew that Mickey Stevenson made recordings?

Wow! I've never heard THAT! I'd be more inclined to believe Jimmy Mack came from The Midwest, rather than The East Coast. Is Mike Valvano still alive. He ran that Palmer session. He would be able to tell us who Mack was.

I would say there is NO chance, at all, that Jimmy "Mack" Harrison, AKA Lenny Curtis, is the guy who used the name "Jimmy Mack" to record for Detroit's Palmer Records. Jimmy Harrison, like his brothers, Wilbert and Bobby (AKA Bobby Harris), were born and raised in North Carolina, and worked in the music business, mostly out of New York. Lenny Curtis' voice on his End and Galiko 45s sounds absolutely NOTHING like Jimmy Mack on the Palmer cuts. I've been told by several people, and have only read that Palmer's "Jimmy Mack", was Chicago songwriter/producer Jimmy McDonald (not to be confused with the Gospel piano/organist of the same name). The latter worked mainly in Chicago, but worked occasionally in Detroit, as evidenced by his Palmer session, and his being seen at Motown. Every young, African-American trying to make it in the music business, probably went to Motown when in Detroit, to see if they could make a connection. He has been said to have done some work there. So, maybe he sold Jobete Music a song or two, or maybe he played as a fill-in musician in a couple recording sessions.

Here's Global Dog's 45 discography of Spry Records: 101 Lorenzo Holden - Pie A La Mode /Top Hat (57) 102 Frankie Marshall - Walk With Me/ Remembrance (57) 103 Harmonica Slim - Thought I Didn't Love You/ Going Back Home (57) 104 Jackie Kelso - Jumpin' Gee /Cooler Please (57) 105 Jack Rodgers - Train Whistle Blues/ ? (57) 106 Martin Dedrick - Don't Lead Me On/ Heartsick And Lonely (57) 107Nick Green & Don Jackson - San Antonio Rock/ Tall Quiet Stranger (58) 108 Johnny Woodson & The Crescendos - Dreamers From My Heart/ All That's Good (58) 109 The Deville Sisters - Alone Why Must I Be Alone/ (Oh) My Love (58) 110 Reuben Grundy - Every Word/ Sail Away (58) 111 The Deville Sisters - Love And Desire/ ? (58) 112 Frankie Marshall - I Found Out/ How Long Will It Last (58) 113 Gene Lamarr - Crazy Little House On The Hill/ You Don't Love Me Anymore (59) 114 Gene Lamarr - You Can Count On Me/ Just A Little Bit Longer (59) 115 Gene Lamarr - Close To Me/ Moon Eyes (59) 116 The Carousels - I've Cried Enough/ Did I Cry Enough (62) 117 Gene Ross - Rockin' China Doll /Please Forgive Me (61) 118 The Jesters - To Be Or Not To Be /Meet The Beat (62) 119 Les "Carrot Top" Anderson - Johnny Sorrow/ Brenda Lee (62) 120 Jackie Lee Cochran - Pity Me Endless Love (recorded 59) (released 62?) 121 The Carousels - Rendezvous/ Drive In Movie (62?) 122 Chavez and Chaney - Be My Love/ Picadilly Rose (63?) © 2005 Global Dog Productions. All rights reserved The 1000 series (including Johnny Woodson 1008, must have operated in 1963 from the looks of the label and vinyl pressing job. I'm sure there were more, looking at the label reminds me that I saw a few more of Spry records with that design on a 1000 series. Several of them may have been re-releases of 100 Series material. So Spry and Cenco operated at the same time for a few years in the early 1960s.

ALL the Cenco Records from 1961-66 had Class Music as their publisher. That must have been owned 100% by Gradny. The first Cenco record NOT published by Class was Ike & Tina Turner's 1967 release, using Ike's Placid Music.

I believe that Spry Records ran from 1957-1958. Cenco seems to have started in 1961, and I've seen records from that label through about 1968.

Recordo Music was Leon Rene's personal publisher, used as in-house publishers by his Excelsior, Exclusive, and Class Records labels.

THAT false connecting of "Class Music" with Leon Rene , and the fact that Roy Milton and Charles Brown and Johny Moore's Four and Three Blazers had also recorded for Leon Rene in the past, must have been why I thought that Spry Records may have been at least partly owned by Rene. It must have been totally Gradny's, with no connection to Rene or his Class Records. I had thought that Gradny's Spry was originally distributed by Vita, but Rene may have been a partner. But now I see that that was just a coincidence that Class Music was the same name as Class Records, but there was no connection, whatsoever.

A little too recent for me. 😎

Ha! Ha! That's DEFINITELY NOT Gerald Sims, who was about 100 shades darker than that guy. Not Monk Higgins, not Riley Hampton, not Johnny Pate. That guy doesn't look familiar to me, at all; but maybe he looked a lot different back in the 1960s.

Herschel Hunter was also lead singer of The Moments, who recorded for Robert Bateman and Herman Griffin at Hit productions and Hit Records, and also sang with The Tempos for Diamond Jim Riley (Riley's, and Diamond Jim Records). A talented family, having brothers Ty and Herschel Hunter.

Very sad to hear this sad news. He was a really nice man. When I used to visit England twice a year on my way between USA or Canada and Holland during the 1980s and 1990s, I always stopped in King's Lynn. He put me up for a few nights, and let me rummage through the record barn. We used to talk especially about rare Soul records from Detroit and Chicago (my specialties- and the only 2 cities I could match him in knowledge), and the labels involved, and what finds we made in those 2 cities. He was a legend, and will be sorely missed. RIP.

The article on Tollie Records and Ray Harris mentioned that Harris tried to get the small labels he would distribute to release their product (or, at least the best of it) on Tollie, but they declined (so far), because they wanted the buying public to identify with their label. But, talking about "The Motown/Tamla Groove", Harris got Frank Wilson to let Tollie have his 2 sided "Motown-style (Jobete Music published) 2 songs by "Eddie (AKA Frank) Wilson". Although Tollie apparently didn't have much clout in The Western US, unlike VJ in The Midwest. Harris didn't get anyone to play it. I didn't hear either song played on KGFJ, KDIA, KSOL, WVON, or WDIA. I bought the record because I remembered Eddie Wilson on Back Beat, and because it had 2 Jobete songs on it, and because Gordon and Wilson were the writers. It turned out to not disappoint me. I was glad my home town label, VJ got it, but sad to see it get no airplay.

Yes, I'M the one that originally said that Mercedes Music was Hancock's, and that he was likely to be at least a co-owner. I was only repeating what someone just wrote above, that Talmadge owned Highland and Magnum. I also found it hard to believe. And now I looked back to find out who wrote that (as my comment on that was responding to that very quote), and now I find that the quote doesn't exist. I must be going mad (or have crossed the line into severe senility). 😭

We already went over this in an extensive thread I started in 2004 on Soulful Detroit Forum. Someone I talked to at Motown, who was friendly with Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, and Frank Wilson, told me that the Doc Records label was partly (or fully) financed by a doctor living in Rydal, Pennsylvania, who was a friend of Davis'. I believe he spent a fair amount of time in L.A. I don't believe the story that Ed Cobb, or Davis, Gordon, The Pipkins, or any of the Jobete L.A. producers had any reason to use an address far away from L.A. to "hide" these releases from Berry Gordy and his staff. Otherwise, all those other Jobete songs they released on other indie labels (Power, Grand, Joker, Magnum, Dee Gee, Tamara, and all the songs released on non-majors, would have had to be placed on new labels using "fake" addresses in distant cities. As far as I know, Champion was Ed Cobb's label, probably owned by him and with a financier partner. It was NOT owned by VJ, only distributed by their Tollie distributor. Ed Cobb was NOT the only L.A. Jobete producer to have a release on Doc Records. It probably was an outlet for ANY of the L.A. Jobete producers to release their own productions, given that "The Doctor" knew Hal Davis, and probably most of them.

So Sid Talmadge owned, or co-owned, both Highland and Magnum. No wonder some records were on both labels.

Yes, that must have been Sid's son, If he was in his 20s. If he was in his 40s or 50s, then he was Sid's brother.