Just has an email from our good friends at eBay.

Changes coming up, amongst them is the fact that all media (including records, cd's etc) will have to offer free P&P as first option on UK eBay

(I think they did this with DVD's a few months back)

Full details here ...

https://pages.ebay.co...l/sellerupdate/

Bet they don't get many 99p freelistings after that date ...

Mick Holdsworth

I'm thinking this could maybe a good thing because I tend to buy 3 times more than I sell nowadays and I'd enjoy the benefits of free postage. However, what if the sellers scrimp and send by the cheapest method i.e. 2nd class not recorded?

It does eliminate overcharging for shipping and puts all sellers on even keel. But, i'm sure the real reason is ebay is trying to squeeze every last penny out of the seller. now the seller will have to pay final value fees on their postage costs too.

I'm thinking this could maybe a good thing because I tend to buy 3 times more than I sell nowadays and I'd enjoy the benefits of free postage. However, what if the sellers scrimp and send by the cheapest method i.e. 2nd class not recorded?

Plus no cardboard packaging!....can't imagine that there would be too many opting for the free postage option then

Just typical Ebay profit maximising again as Carl points out!...They will eventually end up destroying what they have built if they keep it up...it just becomes not worth the hassle to sell on there unless it is something costing a reasonably large amount!

Which goes against the grain of what Ebay was started up for doesn't it ??

Edited July 28, 200916 yr by Bogue

only one winner every time if you either buy or sell and then again when you get a refund?

I'm thinking this could maybe a good thing because I tend to buy 3 times more than I sell nowadays and I'd enjoy the benefits of free postage. However, what if the sellers scrimp and send by the cheapest method i.e. 2nd class not recorded?

Good Pete?? Wake up and smell the coffee!!

Let me give you an example as to why it is an insane policy that will ultimately drive away sellers and then buyers unless there are backdoor routes that can be found to circumnavigate this policy.

The cost of selling a £2.99 7inch repress is as follows;

£1.80 (Typicaly) wholesale these days, by the time shipping, duty etc is taken into consideration

£0.92 Postage (ignoring cost of trips to the Post Office, parking etc etc)

£0.44 (Approx) for mailers and stiffeners (Ignoring parcel tape priner carts, paper etc etc)

£0.45 (Approx) in eBay fees

£0.35 (Approx) in Paypal fees for receiving payment

£0.30 listing fees charged by eBay for items that are listed and do not sell (This is currently around two thirds of those listed)

Totalling £4.26

I currently charge £4.49 for including P&P (£2.99 for the item + £1.50 P&P) the next profit is therefore around £0.23 on a £2.99 repress.

If eBay expect me offer free P&P I would be losing £1.27 per £2.99 repress sold.

I challenged them on this and their suggestion was to add the postage to the cost of the item!

What they have failed to understand is the following;

1/ My competitors are specialist retailers not Amazon and the like and that if I charge a base price 50% above them (i.e. I charge £4.49 against their £2.99) even with free shipping the volume of sales will collapse as people initialy look at the price of the item, postage is a secondary issue.

2/ If I add the postage into the cost of the item I am then unable to offer discounted Postage rates for multiple items as the system is set up so that the most you can discount is £0.01 less than the Postage charge which under the new system would be zero!

3/ If I add the postage into the cost of the item then that falsely inflates the cost of the item for all non domestic buyers who will still have to Pay for postage on top of the 'Built in' postage

4/ Adding the postage into the cost of the item bumps up ebays fees through the final Value fee system good for them but no good for sellers

5/ Their proposed 20% discount on final value fees is of little or no value on low price items for example on a £2.99 repress this would save me £0.06

This new policy change if implemented will kill off sales of anything other then high end collectors vinyl on eBay and when those items are so easy to sell anyway why would you offer them on eBay anyway?

My options appear to be 1/ sell through other 'vinyl friendly' sites (GEMM, MUSIC STACK, REGGAEAUCTION.COM etc) and my weekly e-newsletter, 2/ bump up the prices on ebay and hope no one notices (Ha bloody Ha!) or 3/ pack in selling vinyl for a living and go back into my former profession (Not what I want to do but at present probably makes the most fiscal sense)

Overall apretty sad state of affairs, so tell me Pete what the hell is good in that other than a possible short term gain form sellers who miss the policy change and dont compensate for pree P&P in their pricing? Once sellers realise it is a damn site harder to make any money on ebay you will find prices will go up and there will be a lot less choice IMHO

Good Pete?? Wake up and smell the coffee!!

Let me give you an example as to why it is an insane policy that will ultimately drive away sellers and then buyers unless there are backdoor routes that can be found to circumnavigate this policy.

The cost of selling a £2.99 7inch repress is as follows;

£1.80 (Typicaly) wholesale these days, by the time shipping, duty etc is taken into consideration

£0.92 Postage (ignoring cost of trips to the Post Office, parking etc etc)

£0.44 (Approx) for mailers and stiffeners (Ignoring parcel tape priner carts, paper etc etc)

£0.45 (Approx) in eBay fees

£0.35 (Approx) in Paypal fees for receiving payment

£0.30 listing fees charged by eBay for items that are listed and do not sell (This is currently around two thirds of those listed)

Totalling £4.26

I currently charge £4.49 for including P&P (£2.99 for the item + £1.50 P&P) the next profit is therefore around £0.23 on a £2.99 repress.

If eBay expect me offer free P&P I would be losing £1.27 per £2.99 repress sold.

I challenged them on this and their suggestion was to add the postage to the cost of the item!

What they have failed to understand is the following;

1/ My competitors are specialist retailers not Amazon and the like and that if I charge a base price 50% above them (i.e. I charge £4.49 against their £2.99) even with free shipping the volume of sales will collapse as people initialy look at the price of the item, postage is a secondary issue.

2/ If I add the postage into the cost of the item I am then unable to offer discounted Postage rates for multiple items as the system is set up so that the most you can discount is £0.01 less than the Postage charge which under the new system would be zero!

3/ If I add the postage into the cost of the item then that falsely inflates the cost of the item for all non domestic buyers who will still have to Pay for postage on top of the 'Built in' postage

4/ Adding the postage into the cost of the item bumps up ebays fees through the final Value fee system good for them but no good for sellers

5/ Their proposed 20% discount on final value fees is of little or no value on low price items for example on a £2.99 repress this would save me £0.06

This new policy change if implemented will kill off sales of anything other then high end collectors vinyl on eBay and when those items are so easy to sell anyway why would you offer them on eBay anyway?

My options appear to be 1/ sell through other 'vinyl friendly' sites (GEMM, MUSIC STACK, REGGAEAUCTION.COM etc) and my weekly e-newsletter, 2/ bump up the prices on ebay and hope no one notices (Ha bloody Ha!) or 3/ pack in selling vinyl for a living and go back into my former profession (Not what I want to do but at present probably makes the most fiscal sense)

Overall apretty sad state of affairs, so tell me Pete what the hell is good in that other than a possible short term gain form sellers who miss the policy change and dont compensate for pree P&P in their pricing? Once sellers realise it is a damn site harder to make any money on ebay you will find prices will go up and there will be a lot less choice IMHO

Hey it's not my fault you can't make a profit Phil, I was talking from a buyers point of view not a sellers. I realise that as a seller I'll have to work a way around the problem as will you. But as a buyer I'm absolutely sick and tired of being ripped off on postage and I've lost count of the amount of "1 stars" I've left.

So you have to offer free postage?

What happens when someone pays by paypal and then claims that they haven't received their record? Will ebaypaypal say "well you opted for free postage so tough sh*t" ............ I doubt it.

Special delivery costs £5.60 and is required to insure anything costing over 36 quid, I normally absorb the cost of mailers, fees etc on anything going special delivery. Recorded costs around 1.80, I charge 2.20 otherwise a ten quid record costs me about 2 quid to sell.

And this is without selling through ebay. So, a record is a tenner on my site and a tenner on ebay, buyer will buy off ebay to save 2.20 - costing the ebay seller and me - result: all sellers f*cked.

Also Royal Mail have changed their policy on refunding items lost in the post if you don't use recorded or better due to the amount of fraud. They will now only refund the VALUE of an item i.e. you have to prove what you paid for it not what you sold it for (they must have read my rant about price v value).

So you have to use recorded or special and now absorb all the costs if you are to cover any possible future refund.

On the positive, attendance at venues should go up as everyone returns to carrying a small box of sales around.

BTW Pete, I suppose that you know that if you don't leave 4 stars or more in feedback the sellers fees go up, which is probably why they are charging more for postage. The devil is in the detail!

BTW Pete, I suppose that you know that if you don't leave 4 stars or more in feedback the sellers fees go up, which is probably why they are charging more for postage. The devil is in the detail!

Don't understand Paul, please explain.

Here's a copy of the Email I sent to James at Ebay community (for the f** all that it's worth):

James,

Your recent post alerting me to this in the community pages refers.

Are you trying to discourage record sellers like myself by forcing us to offer Free P&P as a first option? I am, as you can guess, a record seller on Ebay with 9 years behind me. Unlike a minority of unscrupulous sellers (and why should we suffer for them), I make NO profit on P&P. I ship all my items in professional record mailers (which can cost anything between 70p and £1.20 each), to ensure they are well-packed and that they arrive safely.

You can tell us to include P&P costs in our minimum bids, but that doesn't help, and it is a very poor defence for your stupid policies. For instance, to send a 7" single abroad by registered post costs £6. An LP costs £8 to send to the rest of Europe, and £10 outside of Europe. That doesn't include sending multiples, which will only increase the P&P costs. I recently had to send a set of 9 LPs to Korea, at a cost of £18 (I quoted £15, so therefore made a loss of £3 out of my own pocket).

Perhaps I should now send my records in a flimsy envelope with no protection, so that they arrive at their destination completely damaged or even broken?

You have already insulted and violated the sellers' human rights by disallowing them to give neutral or negative feedback when it is needed, and now you've implemented the Free P&P not in the interest of the buyers seeking a good deal, but only to line your own greedy pockets.

I look forward to your timely response to this.

Disgusted.

Edited July 29, 200916 yr by Gene-R

surely the records could be listed in a different category, if the words "northern soul" are included in the title, potential buyers will still find the items?

Here's a copy of the Email I sent to James at Ebay community (for the f** all that it's worth):

James,

Your recent post alerting me to this in the community pages refers.

Are you trying to discourage record sellers like myself by forcing us to offer Free P&P as a first option? I am, as you can guess, a record seller on Ebay with 9 years behind me. Unlike a minority of unscrupulous sellers (and why should we suffer for them), I make NO profit on P&P. I ship all my items in professional record mailers (which can cost anything between 70p and £1.20 each), to ensure they are well-packed and that they arrive safely.

You can tell us to include P&P costs in our minimum bids, but that doesn't help, and it is a very poor defence for your stupid policies. For instance, to send a 7" single abroad by registered post costs £6. An LP costs £8 to send to the rest of Europe, and £10 outside of Europe. That doesn't include sending multiples, which will only increase the P&P costs. I recently had to send a set of 9 LPs to Korea, at a cost of £18 (I quoted £15, so therefore made a loss of £3 out of my own pocket).

Perhaps I should now send my records in a flimsy envelope with no protection, so that they arrive at their destination completely damaged or even broken?

You have already insulted and violated the sellers' human rights by disallowing them to give neutral or negative feedback when it is needed, and now you've implemented the Free P&P - not in the interest of the buyers seeking a good deal, but only to line your own greedy pockets.

I look forward to your timely response to this.

Disgusted.

Gene, think you'll find this free p&p issue only applies to domestic post.....overseas would still be charged as usual....

From the Ebay announcement....

'Free P&P only applies to the first domestic option - you can still offer further chargeable service options'

Doesn't bother me too much, I sell very little on Ebay any more.....but another step by them to alienate more sellers...

Girf

Debate about this on the ebay community board

https://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1100256274&start=120

Having just consulted the Office of Fair Trading, I've just found out that Ebay are UNREGULATED (in other words, there is no regulatory body in control of the legality of their terms).

I've a feeling that this, and the fact that sellers can't leave neutral or negative feedback, can be challenged or may be in violation of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. Any legal bods out there who may be able to help? Stuart-T - where are you?

Gene, think you'll find this free p&p issue only applies to domestic post.....overseas would still be charged as usual....

From the Ebay announcement....

'Free P&P only applies to the first domestic option - you can still offer further chargeable service options'

Doesn't bother me too much, I sell very little on Ebay any more.....but another step by them to alienate more sellers...

Girf

Thanks Girf. Hope you're right - that would make me feel a whole lot better.

Don't understand Paul, please explain.

Ebay gives discounts to sellers that maintain a high Detailed Seller Rating (DSR). They geared the site towards high volume sellers and tempted them with lower fees for high volume of sales. They then based their DSR on buyer feedback. To get the best discounts on fees you have to maintain a DSR average of 4.6 or better - i.e. get a star rating of 4.6 or better for 30 days (consecutvely I think) to get your discount. The fees increase as the DSR falls.

So if you leave 1 star for someone who qualifies for these discounts their fees go up until their DSR average reaches above 4.6 again which is pretty hard to maintain I would imagine. I always leave 5 stars unless I've been really robbed. (I'm not telling you off or being patronising - I'm just explaining).

It is well hidden on ebay's web site now but there is more info here: https://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/seller-discounts.html

It's worth reading as my explanation is the result of a quick scan so I may not have it exactly correct.

Ebay gives discounts to sellers that maintain a high Detailed Seller Rating (DSR). They geared the site towards high volume sellers and tempted them with lower fees for high volume of sales. They then based their DSR on buyer feedback. To get the best discounts on fees you have to maintain a DSR average of 4.6 or better - i.e. get a star rating of 4.6 or better for 30 days (consecutvely I think) to get your discount. The fees increase as the DSR falls.

So if you leave 1 star for someone who qualifies for these discounts their fees go up until their DSR average reaches above 4.6 again which is pretty hard to maintain I would imagine. I always leave 5 stars unless I've been really robbed. (I'm not telling you off or being patronising - I'm just explaining).

It is well hidden on ebay's web site now but there is more info here: https://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/seller-discounts.html

It's worth reading as my explanation is the result of a quick scan so I may not have it exactly correct.

Thanks - I had no idea! Mines never dropped below 4.8 but I didn't know I got any discount!

Having just consulted the Office of Fair Trading, I've just found out that Ebay are UNREGULATED (in other words, there is no regulatory body in control of the legality of their terms).

I've a feeling that this, and the fact that sellers can't leave neutral or negative feedback, can be challenged or may be in violation of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. Any legal bods out there who may be able to help? Stuart-T - where are you?

you are adhering to their terms and conditions by agreeing to be a seller, they have you by the sh+curlys, i list on e bay no big ticket numbers, but would know have second thoughts on this, which is a shame because for all its faults it does shift records around, i dont go to events so would not have a clue what is being played, a certain dj recently bought one of my 99p bins, now if this is now played out and gets some exposure, thats great the music is still being played, but would he have been able to buy it , in two months time because e bay has forced out the small sellers(and that seems their intention to me)in the usa its seems there is a $4 charge max (wonder if they cant by law in the usa impose free postage)so why not consult sellers with perfect feedback on postage charges and implement max allowable charge(because they would have to spend money) e bay might not miss me and my 99p specials, but record collecters will not just soul music but any genre, how many good records will know end up on the tip, or your local rip-off charity shop

surely you state in your ad p&p free if you want it posting in a paper envelope otherwise take the safe second option

kev

deleted

Edited July 29, 200916 yr by kevinsoulman

deleted dont know why it came up 3 times

Edited July 29, 200916 yr by kevinsoulman

As a buyer and seller on eBay I would say that the Decision Makers on eBay have certainly done their homework very well!!

From a sellers point of view, for 45's, you have no choice but to up the prices of lower ticket items that you would normally sell or start at 99p or you will obviously be a busy fool and lose more money than you make.

As for Albums/LPs, I defy anyone to actually send one of these through the post with proper packaging for less than £2.14p (upto 500grams) & is more likely to be £2.65 within the UK. Hence a starting price for an album needs to be around £3.50 to actually break even once fees have been deducted!!!

Therefore, you might as well literally give your cheaper vinyl pieces to a charity shop for what is worth. Alternatively, as a seller, you put the cost of postage on the item start price and eventually a 99p record will become a £2.49 record because lets face it, no one is going to list an item at 99p and risk it selling at that price and losing money.

Initially buyers will have less choice as less people will sell lower priced items so eventually £2.49 will become the minimum norm list price for a 45 for example. Ebay get a result all round because the fees for an item selling at £2.49 will be higher. In fact at a rate of 10% (almost) their deduction goes up from 10p to £25p!!

They are technically forcing sellers to increase their prices at the lower end of the scale and ultimately getting buyers to pay more for their items. Its all about them making more money! Make no mistake the buyers & the sellers are the only losers here!

Someone with a bit of savvy & know how needs to go head to head with eBay and develop a music media only website that charges nominal amounts for listing & selling. The problem with eBay is, they have got no real direct competion. What a great business opportunity for someone!!!!!??????

Best - Al

It just paves the way for a well designed, well placed, well advertised competitor that specialises only in music and understands the needs and requirements of sellers. All it takes is someone with a good business brain, a rock solid business plan and all the anecdotal eveidence from disgruntled and alienated sellers to put it to the Dragon's Den for some backing. It's almost like ebay want to drive their sellers away.

It just paves the way for a well designed, well placed, well advertised competitor that specialises only in music and understands the needs and requirements of sellers. All it takes is someone with a good business brain, a rock solid business plan and all the anecdotal eveidence from disgruntled and alienated sellers to put it to the Dragon's Den for some backing. It's almost like ebay want to drive their sellers away.

Absolutely!!!!! Couldn't agree more. Wish I had the where withall to do it. Could make someone very rich at the same time as keeping an army of Music sellers & buyers very happy!!!!

Al

Online petition against the new postage proposals below

https://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=1106520590

Online petition against the new postage proposals below

https://forums.ebay.c...590

Just clicked the link and it says discussion has been removed

Thanks - I had no idea! Mines never dropped below 4.8 but I didn't know I got any discount!

I believe the discounts are only for final value fees and only for Power Sellers. If all dsr's are above 4.9 the discount is 20%....on the US site anyway.

Just clicked the link and it says discussion has been removed

I just clicked the link and it went straight to it and showed my signing of it!

Edited July 30, 200916 yr by Pete S

I just clicked the link and it went straight to it and showed my signing of it!

Tried again,says discussion thread has been removed weird or what

Tried again,says discussion thread has been removed weird or what

Tis a bit weird, it's still working for me and the last post on there was at 16.19

https://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=1106520590

try that one

Tis a bit weird, it's still working for me and the last post on there was at 16.19

https://forums.ebay.c...590

try that one

it been removed i got this when i tried it.

This discussion thread has been removed for one of the following reasons:

-the initial post in the thread was in violation of our Board Usage Policy.

-the member that started the thread has requested that it be removed.

-the thread expired due to inactivity

Tis a bit weird, it's still working for me and the last post on there was at 16.19

https://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=1106520590

try that one

It says it has been removed due to a 'violation'

I believe the discounts are only for final value fees and only for Power Sellers. If all dsr's are above 4.9 the discount is 20%....on the US site anyway.

The link I put up was to the UK site, didn't have a look at the US to be honest. They do tend to have different policies for US & UK.

For the UK the discounts apply to powersellers (a sliding scale from 20% to 40%) and anyone who qualifies as a powerseller in a 30 day period (flat 20%).

£750 sales in 30 days is needed for bronze powerseller status (and being registered as a business on ebay) and that wouldn't be too difficult if you were selling a few good records.

i have not brought a record or cd off ebay in a few months but as a buyer not sure i like this so if less records CD's are sold at 99p i could effectively be bidding on a record let's say starting price of £2.50 and might have to pay in total of say £2.50 or more if i win item even though previously i could have got something for total of say £2. if sold as 99p and say £1 for post and package

as i not sold on it for a while it's gonna be worst. cause i have tried before to sell CD's many starting at 99p and never got any buyers so was loosing money when i was listing like 10 items and selling only 1 CD. i will have now sell for more if i want to try and sell so i can make profitand i never wanted to sell things too expensive on ebay

i was looking at https://uk.ebid.net/ which seems well put together.......anyone had any experience of it?.......there seems to be a lack of sellers tho....

i was looking at https://uk.ebid.net/ which seems well put together.......anyone had any experience of it?.......there seems to be a lack of sellers tho....

If you look in the "R & B" section on ebid there are hundreds of soul records, many superb British ones except a) they are all from the same seller, 15 pages worth and the prices are just ridiculous, book price or higher and thats just the start point so it defeats the object.

surely you state in your ad p&p free if you want it posting in a paper envelope otherwise take the safe second option

kev

That's my plan -- well something like that. Seems to me they just want you to add in you P&P as a base to your starting price hence higher cost for listing the item and then p&p included in final price. I think this will just drive more sellers towards buy it now prices in an attempt to ensure a margin. There's way more buy it now already vs auctions than there was a year or so back.

eBay appear determined to screw the goose that laid their golden egg for all its worth -- time for a competitor to rise up me thinks.