I collect (buy/sell/trade) lots of vinyl and I am always running into pieces that are tough to find any info on. I do the usual searches (ebay, gemm, popsike, coll. frenzy) and have Manship's book, but there are still many pieces that I cannot find info on. What do you think is the best way to determine a price on a piece that seems to be undocumented? Any help or tips would be appreciated...

I collect (buy/sell/trade) lots of vinyl and I am always running into pieces that are tough to find any info on. I do the usual searches (ebay, gemm, popsike, coll. frenzy) and have Manship's book, but there are still many pieces that I cannot find info on. What do you think is the best way to determine a price on a piece that seems to be undocumented? Any help or tips would be appreciated...

Get Butch to play them !

Then go for an expensive holiday when you have sold them !!!

Suppose it depends how good the record is...I've picked up a few pieces that are very hard/little info recently...couple of Ali Mapo R&B numbers that never come up and a Cravens 7...both have dancefloor appeal to the right market...fuck knows on price though...but I know that when I eventually do sell I won't let them go cheap...suppose it boils down to what someone is prepared to pay for them too...if they like it...and can't find it easily...then id say you were onto a winner

Thanks...yea I am just worried before trying to sell something that I am going to let a real nice piece go for too little. Does anyone have any stories about undocumented stuff you tried to sell?

Thanks...yea I am just worried before trying to sell something that I am going to let a real nice piece go for too little. Does anyone have any stories about undocumented stuff you tried to sell?

Loads you sell them for a profit today, not what it might bring next year or ten years down the line, some you win on as copies turn up, others you lose on, nature of the game I'm afraid.

I collect (buy/sell/trade) lots of vinyl and I am always running into pieces that are tough to find any info on. I do the usual searches (ebay, gemm, popsike, coll. frenzy) and have Manship's book, but there are still many pieces that I cannot find info on. What do you think is the best way to determine a price on a piece that seems to be undocumented? Any help or tips would be appreciated...

try asking on web forums. Plenty of stuff, even records that turn out to be common that aren't documented in the usual places.

Do you have any examples of the stuff you want to price?

Do you have any examples of the stuff you want to price?

If he doesn't have any examples you could always try to price

Sure....here are two examples of what I am talking about. One is of a group I have never heard of, while the other is an unlisted piece from a known artist. Both are soul pieces of course.

The first is a group out of Columbus, Ohio called "The Lyte Brigade" on Magnetic records 0136. Tracks are "Showtime" and "What Happened to the Love". The first side is a great dancer.

The 2nd is by Lee Tillman on Montel/Michelle (Promo) 963 - Tracks are "Tossin' & Turnin'" and "I Can't Forget Your Love".

showtime looks like a cover of detroit emeralds showtime

how does it compare to that ? much difference?

I collect (buy/sell/trade) lots of vinyl and I am always running into pieces that are tough to find any info on. I do the usual searches (ebay, gemm, popsike, coll. frenzy) and have Manship's book, but there are still many pieces that I cannot find info on. What do you think is the best way to determine a price on a piece that seems to be undocumented? Any help or tips would be appreciated...

Record a soundfile and stick it up on eBay for sale - at the end of the day a record is only worth what more than one person is willing to pay for it.

To be honest, your post comes across as someone who is paranoid about somebody 'lifting your leg' on the price of a 45 - if this is the case, do the above and let the market decide. If not, and it's just a 45 for your own collection, then what does it matter what it's worth?

Sure....here are two examples of what I am talking about. One is of a group I have never heard of, while the other is an unlisted piece from a known artist. Both are soul pieces of course.

The first is a group out of Columbus, Ohio called "The Lyte Brigade" on Magnetic records 0136. Tracks are "Showtime" and "What Happened to the Love". The first side is a great dancer.

The 2nd is by Lee Tillman on Montel/Michelle (Promo) 963 - Tracks are "Tossin' & Turnin'" and "I Can't Forget Your Love".

I have the Lyte Brigade 45, with pic sleeve, part of my Ohio collection - and it's 'documented' on my web site. I've seen at least 5 more copies. It's sold on eBay for $20 or less.

"Showtime" is the Detroit Emeralds song - decent, but inferior to the original IMO. Not something that would get played in the US soul club scene, but others may think differently. The flip side is a ballad, not really 'sweet', just a slow ballad. The record is borderline soul, more of a nightclub rock/soul mix sound, think of early Three Dog Night.

If anyone wants to hear it I can post sound files Saturday.

- George

Edited February 13, 201015 yr by George G

Record a soundfile and stick it up on eBay for sale - at the end of the day a record is only worth what more than one person is willing to pay for it.

To be honest, your post comes across as someone who is paranoid about somebody 'lifting your leg' on the price of a 45 - if this is the case, do the above and let the market decide. If not, and it's just a 45 for your own collection, then what does it matter what it's worth?

I'm not paranoid, just trying to make educated hobby/business decisions. This seems to be one area that is a little grey for me and I am just trying to educate myself. I agree with the fact that a 45 is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it...I am just trying to be ahead of the curve on my sales. For example...the lyte brigade 45 is probably worth 50 bucks to me so I would be quite disappointed if it sold for 10. But if someone is willing to pay a hundred...then its worth it to me to sell. I think determining values is very smart for a hobbiest to know what he has and what its worth.

A very good friend and mentor of mine from the past. The late great "Little John" Ullah from Scunthorpe once told me.

"Totally unplayed unknowns always start at a fiver then work themselves up from there.." 

What Joe D is saying is also true in my opinion-..something's only worth what somebody else is prepared to pay for it.

So keep playing it and build up a demand for it. Then listen to the offers...

The record is borderline soul, more of a nightclub rock/soul mix sound, think of early Three Dog Night.

If anyone wants to hear it I can post sound files Saturday.

- George

Wouldn't mind hearing it if you want to go through all the trouble.

Wouldn't mind hearing it if you want to go through all the trouble.

If he doesnt put it up...i will give it a shot. It might take me a few tries since this is all new to me. I think its a pretty sweet tune though.

Lee Tillman is known, he has a few on that label, I've got Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye somewhere. It is listed in R&B indies.

Edited February 13, 201015 yr by chalky

I'm not paranoid, just trying to make educated hobby/business decisions. This seems to be one area that is a little grey for me and I am just trying to educate myself. I agree with the fact that a 45 is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it...I am just trying to be ahead of the curve on my sales. For example...the lyte brigade 45 is probably worth 50 bucks to me so I would be quite disappointed if it sold for 10. But if someone is willing to pay a hundred...then its worth it to me to sell. I think determining values is very smart for a hobbiest to know what he has and what its worth.

Tim Ashibendie once said, "collecting rare soul is problematic". How right is was, well collecting (and selling) unknown/undocumented 45's is even more so. I spend most of my time searching and buying in the unknown end of things. A simple framework i use is this.

No 1- Exhaust, the usual references, RnB 45's, Soul Harmony Singles, the UK guides, the Japaneese funk guides, popsike, the various US group guides and of course... google. Then ask (discreetly) some of the main collectors. from this you should be able o establish some benchmark on scarcity.

No 2 - Is simple... musical merit. Does the record have what it takes, given its particular genre/type. (unfortunately, this comes down to having an "ear for the music" and sense of future taste trend)

No 3 - Is the demand for that genre/type (ie - 60s uptempo, crossover, funky northern etc) bullish or bearish.

No. 4 - There has to be some future value left in the sell or buy price for the investor. The future value has still yet to be created! It may work out, it may not. As everyone knows and its been said above, DJs tend to be a big creator of future value of a record. If it gets played and catches on, the value will be realised, if it doesn't get played, then it probably won't. This is the risk that the buyer takes and has to be reflected in the valuation and sell price of unknown/undocumented soul 45s.

Not perfect, but hope this helps you!

Andy

Here is the track from "the lyte brigade"

THE LYTE BRIGADE - SHOWTIME -

Here is the track from "the lyte brigade"

THE LYTE BRIGADE - SHOWTIME -

to me this is a weak garage cover of the detroit emeralds, i can't imagine this having real value

Tim Ashibendie once said, "collecting rare soul is problematic". How right is was, well collecting (and selling) unknown/undocumented 45's is even more so. I spend most of my time searching and buying in the unknown end of things. A simple framework i use is this.

No 1- Exhaust, the usual references, RnB 45's, Soul Harmony Singles, the UK guides, the Japaneese funk guides, popsike, the various US group guides and of course... google. Then ask (discreetly) some of the main collectors. from this you should be able o establish some benchmark on scarcity.

No 2 - Is simple... musical merit. Does the record have what it takes, given its particular genre/type. (unfortunately, this comes down to having an "ear for the music" and sense of future taste trend)

No 3 - Is the demand for that genre/type (ie - 60s uptempo, crossover, funky northern etc) bullish or bearish.

No. 4 - There has to be some future value left in the sell or buy price for the investor. The future value has still yet to be created! It may work out, it may not. As everyone knows and its been said above, DJs tend to be a big creator of future value of a record. If it gets played and catches on, the value will be realised, if it doesn't get played, then it probably won't. This is the risk that the buyer takes and has to be reflected in the valuation and sell price of unknown/undocumented soul 45s.

Not perfect, but hope this helps you!

Andy

 

great advice. I feel like this pretty much sums up the tread.