Two things I'd dearly love to be able to play out are :-

Eddie Holman - I surrender (Harthon dub version)

Judy Freeman & Black Rock - Hold on (RCA lp version)

Is it at possible to get these on any playable formats?

Cheers, Steve

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by albertfish

Two things I'd dearly love to be able to play out are :-

Eddie Holman - I surrender (Harthon dub version)

Judy Freeman & Black Rock - Hold on (RCA lp version)

Is it at possible to get these on any playable formats?

Cheers, Steve

Hope thats not on CD you know the soul police will come round and slap you !

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by soulboy

Two things I'd dearly love to be able to play out are :-

Eddie Holman - I surrender (Harthon dub version)

Judy Freeman & Black Rock - Hold on (RCA lp version)

Is it at possible to get these on any playable formats?

Cheers, Steve

Depends how fussy you are. LP?

Judy Freeman & Black Rock - Hold on (RCA lp version)

The only original format for this is the one-off test press of the LP (album was never released). I used to play a dub taken from the master tape for a few years, doesn't count as original does it?

Hope thats not on CD you know the soul police will come round and slap you !

If they do slap em' back lol

The only original format for this is the one-off test press of the LP (album was never released). I used to play a dub taken from the master tape for a few years, doesn't count as original does it?

No it dont.

The only original format for this is the one-off test press of the LP (album was never released). I used to play a dub taken from the master tape for a few years, doesn't count as original does it?

What did Greg play at the Dome? Be interested to hear his comments or, indeed, any of the rest of the CSCmovers and shakers.

What did Greg play at the Dome? Be interested to hear his comments or, indeed, any of the rest of the CSCmovers and shakers.

He had the lp,i doubt these test pressings are one off's myself but if someone can prove it.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by ken

He had the lp,i doubt these test pressings are one off's myself but if someone can prove it.

Greg got the test press from me. Maybe not a one-off but the only known copy in the Northern Soul world.

The only original format for this is the one-off test press of the LP (album was never released). I used to play a dub taken from the master tape for a few years, doesn't count as original does it?

I'm not after an original but just any vinyl or acetate release.

Depends how fussy you are. LP?

Not really fussy at all. Was this a vinyl release?

Greg got the test press from me. Maybe not a one-off but the only known copy in the Northern Soul world.

Got a few German test presses,allways come in plain white sleeves so usualy find 'em in with old 12"ers when i can be arsed going through 'em thats maybe why they havent turned up,i'm gonna' find me one next time i'm over.

Got a few German test presses,allways come in plain white sleeves so usualy find 'em in with old 12"ers when i can be arsed going through 'em thats maybe why they havent turned up,i'm gonna' find me one next time i'm over.

Get me one too!

The only original format for this is the one-off test press of the LP (album was never released). I used to play a dub taken from the master tape for a few years, doesn't count as original does it?

That'll do!

The only original format for this is the one-off test press of the LP (album was never released). I used to play a dub taken from the master tape for a few years, doesn't count as original does it?

Judy freeman - was this not issued on an RCA compilation? Including herb ward, willie kendricks,cavaliers etc or have I misread the question? I am 99% certain I have a copy of the LP

the judy freeman and black rock track was released on vinyl in the 70s on an RCA compilation called jumping at the go go.its from 1976 and im looking at it now.ive had my copy for 20 years and never get bored of that track.it is scarce and i think goes for about 25 quid.its an ok loudish recording as well for an lp.its compiled and has a write up by richard searling.hope this helps you.ktf

the track listing is as follows

ill always need you dean courtney

moonlight music and you laura green

whats it gonna be susan barret (amazing)

devils drive big borris

HOLD ON JUDY FREEMAN AND BLACK ROCK

it didnt take much percy wiggins

change your ways willie kendrick (phenominal)

aint no soul ray paige

i cant change lorraine chandler (classic)

crackin up roy hamilton

blowing up my mind the exiters

man without a woman michael and raymond

stick to me robert walker

honest to goodness herb ward (big tune)

youve got your mind on other things beverly anne

hold on to my baby the cavaliers

i cant hold on lorraine chandler (heartbreaker)

happy go lucky me the bobettes

ive gotta know right now rose valentine

i cant help loving you paul anka (???)

That's the one! I have a copy too. Excellent value for money then and now

Judy freeman - was this not issued on an RCA compilation? Including herb ward, willie kendricks,cavaliers etc or have I misread the question? I am 99% certain I have a copy of the LP

Yeah, it's a great LP - got it when it came out (75 or 6?). Still like Beverley Ann. The track they're referring to above is a different take. It was a big tune (at least to me) at The Dome.

great minds think at the same time

great minds think at the same time

The Judy Freeman they're talking about is the full version from the unissued Black Rock RCA album. It's far longer and has a different structure: very extended intro and far longer breaks plus a phenomenal vocal ending.

Takes the thing to a completely different level and for me is one of the best Northern records ever. I used to love the edited single but listening to it after the extended version is very disappointing, to say the least.

The full version used to be on refosoul.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by garethx

The extended version is fantastic. Its on youtube. Id link it but im on me fone at mo and cant . I think its on yt as - northern soul with a twist judy freeman- . :-] x

The extended version is fantastic. Its on youtube. Id link it but im on me fone at mo and cant . I think its on yt as - northern soul with a twist judy freeman- . :-] x

The version on youtube is not the real one. That sounds like something someone did at home using basic sound editing software, just cutting and pasting bits of the 45.

Edit: Sorry. I was listening to the wrong youtube clip: the 'real' full version is there as you say Becchio: extra verses, trumpet solo and all. Deffo not a hoax.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by garethx

Me i prefere the 7" original,but would rather have the test lp just cause its harder,but much too long

Whats the rest of the Judy Hughes LP like ....any tracklisting. I thought the Judy Freeman LP was a hoax and someone cleverley remixed the single.It does sound a lot better than the single cut.Wasnt it a later version of the Generations Hold On but funked up.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by wiggyflat

Its nothing like it Gareth ! I know what you mean tho about messing about with stuff. Some of the hendrix ? ? ? on youtube drives me nuts ! . Still like the yt judy freeman anyroad . *shrugs* :-]

Whats the rest of the Judy Hughes LP like ....any tracklisting. I thought the Judy Freeman LP was a hoax and someone cleverley remixed the single.It does sound a lot better than the single cut.Wasnt it a later version of the Generations Hold On but funked up.

I don't think it's a hoax or modern remix: it has completely different vocal parts which would be possible to re-record but why do that and not make it commercially available? Or why not at least circulate it to more deejays? If that was the plot it's been a very elaborate one.

I don't think it's a hoax or modern remix: it has completely different vocal parts which would be possible to re-record but why do that and not make it commercially available? Or why not at least circulate it to more deejays? If that was the plot it's been a very elaborate one.

Ask Benji,he sold/gave/swapped it to Greg and i have seen it it looked Kosher to me.

PS read post 9

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by ken

I don't think it's a hoax or modern remix: it has completely different vocal parts which would be possible to re-record but why do that and not make it commercially available? Or why not at least circulate it to more deejays? If that was the plot it's been a very elaborate one.

Whats the rest of the LP like..It can't be full of tunes as good as Hold On though.Just listened to the long version again. I agree you would have to have redubbed the vocals on some of the parts to do the longer version. Did Searling every have the long version?. He must have had access to it when he was working at RCA.Talking of longer versions where did the longer version of It Really Hurts Me Girl originate...got me thinking re alternate LP cuts.I'm sure High Voltage Country Road is longer on the LP.

Ask Benji,he sold/gave/swapped it to Greg and i have seen it it looked Kosher to me.

PS read post 9

I agree with you Ken.

Whats the rest of the LP like..It can't be full of tunes as good as Hold On though.Just listened to the long version again. I agree you would have to have redubbed the vocals on some of the parts to do the longer version. Did Searling every have the long version?. He must have had access to it when he was working at RCA.Talking of longer versions where did the longer version of It Really Hurts Me Girl originate...got me thinking re alternate LP cuts.I'm sure High Voltage Country Road is longer on the LP.

Think Benji has gone through the story of where and how it was found before on here (there are certainly threads about it). I think it was located in Germany a long time after Searling and RCA parted company: surely if he had access to it he would have been keen to get some use from it.

Think Benji has gone through the story of where and how it was found before on here (there are certainly threads about it). I think it was located in Germany a long time after Searling and RCA parted company: surely if he had access to it he would have been keen to get some use from it.

JUDY FREEMAN - HOLD ON - LP TAKE -

this is of the lp so it says,realy nice soul.

JUDY FREEMAN & BLACK ROCK - DON'T DO IT ANYMORE - RCA -

Why does everybody look in utube,when there is over 60.000 tracks in refo-soul.

Edited March 2, 201015 yr by ken

JUDY FREEMAN - HOLD ON - LP TAKE -

this is of the lp so it says,realy nice soul.

JUDY FREEMAN & BLACK ROCK - DON'T DO IT ANYMORE - RCA -

Why does everybody look in utube,when there is over 60.000 tracks in refo-soul.

That is a good point Ken, but the refosoul clips don't tend to have dozens of people saying 'KTF' or making inane and inaccurate comments about Wigan Casino underneath them.

That is a good point Ken, but the refosoul clips don't tend to have dozens of people saying 'KTF' or making inane and inaccurate comments about Wigan Casino underneath them.

Yeh and we dont have pictures of bootlegs going round in circles and that authentic bat cave sound,we better step up

right-on !!

got a 10' dub of this from Greg must be about 10 years ago now

certainly i had no problems playing it out at the right place

a dub from the owner and with his permission of a one off track that rate highly

thinking was here that the lp was the original take and the 45 version was mixed down from that

when compared both did seem to be almost identical till 3 mins and fitted in with above

but given gareths comment have to have a listen again

was in touch with the producer a bit back, but failed trying to track judy freeman down

agree with what's said its right up there with the best imo

Oooh bitchy ! What you all gonna do next ? hit me with your virtual handbags !

Thanks for the info guys but I kind of knew all that!

What I really want is any vinyl/dub plate/acetate issue of:-

Eddie Holman - I surrender (1st demo copy/Harthon dub)

Judy Freeman - Hold on (Alternative LP version)

Maybe I should have put these in wants?

Thanks for the info guys but I kind of knew all that!

What I really want is any vinyl/dub plate/acetate issue of:-

Eddie Holman - I surrender (1st demo copy/Harthon dub)

Judy Freeman - Hold on (Alternative LP version)

Maybe I should have put these in wants?

The Eddie Holman & The Larks album is a legitimate (or at least semi-legitimate) release; they turn up on ebay, gemm etc. from time to time. Why not buy that and get a carver done if you prefer not to play it from LP.

I don't know who owns the first TP of the Judy Freeman now but I know several people played cuts with the owner's permission from time to time in the past: Mike as he said above, Ady C. and so on.

On 03/03/2010 at 10:10, garethx said:

The Eddie Holman & The Larks album is a legitimate (or at least semi-legitimate) release; they turn up on ebay, gemm etc. from time to time. Why not buy that and get a carver done if you prefer not to play it from LP.

I don't know who owns the first TP of the Judy Freeman now but I know several people played cuts with the owner's permission from time to time in the past: Mike as he said above, Ady C. and so on.

Many thanks for the answers to my question.

I don't mind playing from LP's so I will look out for Eddie Holman.

Would still like to get a copy of Judy Freeman but it seems unlikely now.

Perhaps I'll post in 'wants'?

Cheers,

Steve

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by Mister Fish

The tp of Judy Freeman is my one and only claim to fame in Northern Soul so far

As said by Gareth I posted the story surrounding it before so I won't bore you again. But if anyone wants to know more about it say so and I'll reveal the "whole mysterious story"

The tp of Judy Freeman is my one and only claim to fame in Northern Soul so far

As said by Gareth I posted the story surrounding it before so I won't bore you again. But if anyone wants to know more about it say so and I'll reveal the "whole mysterious story"

I for one am interested..

Me too .

The Judy Freeman they're talking about is the full version from the unissued Black Rock RCA album. It's far longer and has a different structure: very extended intro and far longer breaks plus a phenomenal vocal ending.

Takes the thing to a completely different level and for me is one of the best Northern records ever. I used to love the edited single but listening to it after the extended version is very disappointing, to say the least.

The full version used to be on refosoul.

====================================================================================

oh no, the soul police are closing in already.i was just tryna help...

maybe he should have put he was looking for the extended version in the first place and not the comp issue like he did for the eddiie holman version, as thats why i didnt say i surrender was released on action..., because its not an unreleased track, the extended version is unreleased..

inspecta dek..grammatical correctness police

anyway, ive got digging to go out and do in the real world..

got a 10' dub of this from Greg must be about 10 years ago now certainly i had no problems playing it out at the right place a dub from the owner and with his permission of a one off track that rate highly thinking was here that the lp was the original take and the 45 version was mixed down from that when compared both did seem to be almost identical till 3 mins and fitted in with above but given gareths comment have to have a listen again was in touch with the producer a bit back, but failed trying to track judy freeman down agree with what's said its right up there with the best imo

"A Dub from the Owner" Did Greg own the rights to the Lp as well as the test press. If not then you were playing out a illigelly made copy otherwise known as a bootleg! It would be really good to have a definative of whats allowed and whats not for Djs who take their craft seriously! I did a list for another site some months ago. ATB Steve

I really like the extension but the 45 has been one of my favs since I was a kid.

Edited March 3, 201015 yr by Ernie Andrews

The Eddie Holman & The Larks album is a legitimate (or at least semi-legitimate) release; they turn up on ebay, gemm etc. from time to time. Why not buy that and get a carver done if you prefer not to play it from LP.

I don't know who owns the first TP of the Judy Freeman now but I know several people played cuts with the owner's permission from time to time in the past: Mike as he said above, Ady C. and so on.

P.C. Ernie Andrews is bringing you in for questioning!

Who are you talking about as "owner" Gareth?

Edited March 3, 201015 yr by Ernie Andrews

got a 10' dub of this from Greg must be about 10 years ago now

certainly i had no problems playing it out at the right place

a dub from the owner and with his permission of a one off track that rate highly

thinking was here that the lp was the original take and the 45 version was mixed down from that

when compared both did seem to be almost identical till 3 mins and fitted in with above

but given gareths comment have to have a listen again

was in touch with the producer a bit back, but failed trying to track judy freeman down

agree with what's said its right up there with the best imo

The single is definitely cut down from the album, 100% definite, you only have to listen to the last 30 seconds, they are one and the same.

"A Dub from the Owner" Did Greg own the rights to the Lp as well as the test press. If not then you were playing out a illigelly made copy otherwise known as a bootleg! It would be really good to have a definative of whats allowed and whats not for Djs who take their craft seriously! I did a list for another site some months ago. ATB Steve

I really like the extension but the 45 has been one of my favs since I was a kid.

whats this part 2

I let the last sh*te you posted about me go by, as you claimed you were p*ssed

you might need a set of nicely typed out rules to live your life by

i dont and i certainly dont have to justify any of my actions to you

wanna talk about it then pm me

we can take care of that other unfinished business as well

P.C. Ernie Andrews is bringing you in for questioning!

Who are you talking about as "owner" Gareth?

I've no idea who owns it now Steve, but it's long been one of the conventions of the scene that dubs of people's exclusives are usually played with the permission of the owner. RCA clearly haven't had an interest in making this available to the general public so far. As Ady Croasdell has had an ongoing interest in issuing RCA masters through Kent perhaps he can shed some light as to whether RCA still has the master tapes, which I believe were languishing in Germany.

Pete is 100% correct in stating that the 45 is a cut down version of the album version rather than the LP being extended out of the 45, if that makes any sense.

To me the full version makes a lot more sense and the extra verse, trumpet solo and extended breaks make it an even better dance record.

I've no idea who owns it now Steve, but it's long been one of the conventions of the scene that dubs of people's exclusives are usually played with the permission of the owner. RCA clearly haven't had an interest in making this available to the general public so far. As Ady Croasdell has had an ongoing interest in issuing RCA masters through Kent perhaps he can shed some light as to whether RCA still has the master tapes, which I believe were languishing in Germany.

Pete is 100% correct in stating that the 45 is a cut down version of the album version rather than the LP being extended out of the 45, if that makes any sense.

To me the full version makes a lot more sense and the extra verse, trumpet solo and extended breaks make it an even better dance record.

yes

id love to hear it out and im sure loads of other people would too

oh well , sigh

Edited March 3, 201015 yr by becchio

Hi

I still own the original test pressings of the LP which correctly came fron Benji in germany..whatcha mate!.

I cut two 10 plates for Mike at soul source & also robbo in manchester.

I have all the paper work and carbon copies of who played what and costs (studio/artists etc). I don't mind who plays it off what format, i used to be a senior soul police man but these days i couldn't careless along with my other CSC brothers. Maybe one day judy freeman will be pounding out of the speakers in the dome again......who knows you'll all have to wait and see .

All the breast

Gregs

I've no idea who owns it now Steve, but it's long been one of the conventions of the scene that dubs of people's exclusives are usually played with the permission of the owner. RCA clearly haven't had an interest in making this available to the general public so far. As Ady Croasdell has had an ongoing interest in issuing RCA masters through Kent perhaps he can shed some light as to whether RCA still has the master tapes, which I believe were languishing in Germany.

Pete is 100% correct in stating that the 45 is a cut down version of the album version rather than the LP being extended out of the 45, if that makes any sense.

To me the full version makes a lot more sense and the extra verse, trumpet solo and extended breaks make it an even better dance record.

The question was who is the owner- The person who has the test press / acetate is not the owner. Its the copyright owner or the person who has licensed and thats where Ady comes in - He paid money to have the license to copy- The person/s who got a carver done of the test press did not have the license or permission.

As I have just pmd Mike in response to his pm to me- I own one of the 2 copies of the Sidney Barnes orch. I play it out. However I dont have carvers cut of it because I would be in breach of copyright and anyone who had got a carver from me would be effectively playing a bootleg. and its not fair to me who paid a few hundred for it and the other person who similarly paid a considerable sum for the other copy to see people playing it out on a £20 carver its neither legal or moral in the debate about boots!

As you saw by my previous post I think it might be a good idea to have a definative of what is and whats not allowed if you purport to be a DJ who plays OVO. This would haelp people make better judgements in my opinion as to what they play out.

Its only my opinion but ring up the music industry and ask themif its legal or not to cuta carver without the  Copyright owners permission. RCA might not beinterested today but if someone uses it for an advert Im telling you theywould be very interested in who is playing unauthrorised copies as broadcasts.

Edited March 3, 201015 yr by Ernie Andrews