Hi All,

Does anyone know if the 1974 single Marvin Holmes & Justice - You Better Keep Her (on Brown Door MH-6576) was bootlegged on a close lookalike. If so, what are the tell-tale details to look for?

Thanks a lot

John

Think theres a vinyl and a styrene press on BROWN DOOR.Mine is the vinyl one but not booted to my knowledge

Always thought that mine was a boot fo some kind due to the poor sound quality!?

Always thought that mine was a boot fo some kind due to the poor sound quality!?

think the styrene copies do have a faint background hiss to them barry, well all the ones i,ve heard have anyway,not sure about it being booted though....phil

think the styrene copies do have a faint background hiss to them barry, well all the ones i,ve heard have anyway,not sure about it being booted though....phil

That's put that one to bed anyway.

Cheers fella.

I always thought styrene with straight edge where proper and the ones with the sharp edges and see through if you look in the light where re-issues/boots ?

I always thought styrene with straight edge where proper and the ones with the sharp edges and see through if you look in the light where re-issues/boots ?

Just what I've always thought - the see-through ones have a bevelled edge as well.

I always thought styrene with straight edge where proper and the ones with the sharp edges and see through if you look in the light where re-issues/boots ?

well you live and learn, never new that at all, thanks for info.....ignore what i said barry...lol

well you live and learn, never new that at all, thanks for info.....ignore what i said barry...lol

No worries mate, I'll check it after work.

Manships guide mentions no boots of this only a STYRENE press and a Slightly more expensive VINYL one.Well known the styrene has poor sound quality which 1s why most go for the vinyl one

Just what I've always thought - the see-through ones have a bevelled edge as well.

Yep, we think alike

Yep, we think alike

Right gentlemen, thank you very much for all this info. I certainly had no idea. For the record (no pun intended), mine's got a proper straight edge, and you can't see through it, so I'm assuming it's kosher. Does that sound about right?

Cheers

John

I must be missing something here.So are you saying the vinyl ones are boots and if so Why does Manships Guide have the Vinyl copy priced higher than the styrene one.CONFUSED

I must be missing something here.So are you saying the vinyl ones are boots and if so Why does Manships Guide have the Vinyl copy priced higher than the styrene one.CONFUSED

Album version is far superior

The styrene copy ihas a low/quiet sound reproduction.

The vinyl copy is a lot better sound reproduction and is much more enjoyable to listen to.

The styrene copy ihas a low/quiet sound reproduction.

The vinyl copy is a lot better sound reproduction and is much more enjoyable to listen to.

Yep agree on that but still confused as previous posters have said there may be a boot of this.Is the boot on Styrene or vinyl and how do you tell as i am not aware this was booted at all and there is no mention of it in J.M s guide.

Right gentlemen, thank you very much for all this info. I certainly had no idea. For the record (no pun intended), mine's got a proper straight edge, and you can't see through it, so I'm assuming it's kosher. Does that sound about right?

Cheers

John

I would say so, and i presume the vinyl one John is on about is old style without a bevelled edge or see through ?.

Ok this is mine on vinyl with slight bevelled edge but deffo not see through even when candled against lamp

Also has a sguare stamp at 10 oclock in run out on both sides plus scratched in MH-6576-A.

Any opinions

Album version is far superior

Agreed - it's a totally different cut as well.

Agreed - it's a totally different cut as well.

The album cut ever get played out?

:hatsoff2:HI ALL YOU CAN CALL THIS A 70S RECORD, CROSSOVER, MODERN, BUT TO ME IT WILL ALWAYS BE NORTHER SOUL,

This record would be in my personal 100 favorite records of all time, and I do mean all records, like Lou Pride that was played in the 1st 2 years at WI GAN CASINO, it will always sound crisp to my ears, in fact played side by side they go together nicely, I have only read the question and not the thread so I endorse all the positives about this great record 100% the copy I have scanned and is an original issue from soul bowl, the Boots were from SIMON and a young DJ, on the scene played it at any opportunity, i ain't complaining, the boots have that tell tale dented label which is so annoying if you have just started to collect northern soul as many CASINO goers got this one, and for a few years nobody cared as such as many people assumed it was a legits copy, every real one i have had also sold at the bootleg price for years, however, the original is getting hard to locate and the price is about £20 even more certainly rarer han it's selling price, there is a white demo and a great LP to locate, and I would say if you see the DEMO BUY IT don't be a mug and leave it

"You Had Better Keep It" DAVE KIL

Right I have read the thread , real 1st Issue plastic sharp edge scratched in matrix # HM-6576-A (AT 6O-CLOCK, AT 3O-CLOCK IS A SQUARE BOX WITH THE LETTERS TLC WRITTEN INSIDE,,, MY COPY HAS THE WORDS BUBBLING UNDER ,AT 1O-CLOCK, THE VINYL IS SOLID NOT SEE THROUGH AS DESCRIBED, IF YOU CAN SEE THROUGH THE PLASTIC IT WAS COMMON IN THE UK TO PRESS THAT TYPE OF PLASTIC ANY PYE RECORD IS RED BLUE GREEN, AS THERE WAS A OIL STRIKE ON THAT YEAR, I CANT SEE OUR YANK COZENS BEING BOTHERED BACK THEN. I ALSO THINK THE BOOTLEGS HAVE A MATRIX SYMBOL OF A 0 WITH MR INSIDE? DAVE

Edited June 13, 201114 yr by dthedrug

most common one from the trio of releases that came from this label

Jeanie Tracy & Dorothy Morrison being the other two that I can remember

were there any others?

I would say so, and i presume the vinyl one John is on about is old style without a bevelled edge or see through ?.

Yes, that's right, but the label is slightly bubbled though. It reads MH 6576 . S 1 MR (stamped in a circle) DD scratched in a circle and a Delta Number 99777 also scratched in. Nothing else that I can see.

Any more ideas guys?

John

The album cut ever get played out?

I've played it out a few times simply because it sounds so much "crisper".

I've played it out a few times simply because it sounds so much "crisper".

I know the album version, just don't rememeber ever hearing it out over the years. Always the seven.

I've played it out a few times simply because it sounds so much "crisper".

One sounds like B Womack the other doesn't

Ok this is mine on vinyl with slight bevelled edge but deffo not see through even when candled against lamp

Also has a sguare stamp at 10 oclock in run out on both sides plus scratched in MH-6576-A.

Any opinions

It looks ok, or should I say real.

One sounds like B Womack the other doesn't

What, Benny Womack who stacks the shelves at out local Tesco?

Defo not Bobby.

What, Benny Womack who stacks the shelves at out local Tesco?

Defo not Bobby.

Your ears must be painted on

Never said it was but sounded like, have you got anything by Benny so we can compare

Your ears must be painted on

Never said it was but sounded like, have you got anything by Benny so we can compare

I can't sing it, but I can hum it for you.

Right guys, just to get us back on topic, probably for the last time , I've had a word with a dealer I've known for many years, who I've always found to be bang on with his info. It seems this record was probably never actually bootlegged, ie copied or counterfeited illegally, but Brown Door, being a very small outfit had several small batches turned out by a number of pressing plants. That would explain the vinyl and styrene copies and the variations that have been noted regarding edge profile and such. Which was the actual very first batch produced is anybody's guess, but, if you've got one, it's almost certainly ligit. Hope that's of help, unless anyone thinks it's a load of rubbish . Thanks again for all the input: it's been very useful. As ever, you Soulies have proved a passionate and knowledgeable bunch .

Cheers

John

Edited June 14, 201114 yr by John Moffatt

Cheers for that John thats why Manships guide doesn't mention a boot and as i said the vinyl ones go for a touch more due to better sound quality.Put to bed now

Cheers for that John thats why Manships guide doesn't mention a boot and as i said the vinyl ones go for a touch more due to better sound quality.Put to bed now

John don't mention everything now does he, i'll stick with my take on it...........sold enough of em'.

I know the album version, just don't rememeber ever hearing it out over the years. Always the seven.

You would have stocked this album - Barry as the Kon Kord offering is a much later retake of the earlier seven's................hence the crisper sound.

There is no booted copy just a inferior sounding pressed 45. Wasn't the album version posted in Refo Soul some years back. Did not Mr Kevin McKord own this label out of Detroit in the eighties. Anyone confirm 80's 12 " indies lovers.

OH BUM!

That means I let a vinyl original go for £5 a few years ago......................

You would have stocked this album - Barry as the Kon Kord offering is a much later retake of the earlier seven's................hence the crisper sound.

I know NIck, I think we got em off Bill at Timewarp at the time. What was the 12", summat Erie?

Is this the same:

https://www.konkordrecords.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=55

most common one from the trio of releases that came from this label

Jeanie Tracy & Dorothy Morrison being the other two that I can remember

were there any others?

Yeah quite a few others. Promatics being the best - and even that came out in two versions....

I've always thought the thick vinyl copy with the moulded paper label to be the original - same production methods as Jeannie Tracey, Dorothy Morrison etc

I remember the styrene copies with the stick on paper label appearing after the vinyl copies were first being played. I can't think why Brown Door would put them out any differently to any of their other releases. Also why would they put them out with the obvious poor sound quality that the styrene copies have

You would have stocked this album - Barry as the Kon Kord offering is a much later retake of the earlier seven's................hence the crisper sound.

The Kon Kord issue is just a straight copy of the Brown Door album which is a very hard to find item these days.

I`ve got the 7" and the Brown door lp and for me the lp version is far superior/better mix and the lp has another 4/5 good tracks.Plus it`s a better pressing,my 7" is only vg+ at best,gave up looking for a clean copy .

The Kon Kord issue is just a straight copy of the Brown Door album which is a very hard to find item these days.

According to the dead wax markings I,ve estimated the styrene copy is also a 1974 press as is the vinyl copy, two different cities two different vinyl but there is no proof the styrene copy is a bootleg it is unlikely for two reasons. Most all copies sent to this country originate from Bob Catteneo, Bob never ever pressed any bootlegs in l.a.

Secondly two press in the Bay Area and L.A. Is not usual, or even to press in L.A. and release in Oakland The Circle M label is a fine example.

If you compare the two label of the different presses, ironically the STYRENE press label the silver text is infinitely crisper and the detail is on the DOOR logo is far more detailed. This is certainly no replica label.

The deadwax evidence points to

Styrene 1974 L. A. Press

Vinyl 1974 Oakland press

This is why we don't reference it in price guide 5 as a bootleg. Price difference is dictated by the inferior fidelity of the styrene press.

Edited June 17, 201114 yr by john manship

The Kon Kord issue is just a straight copy of the Brown Door album which is a very hard to find item these days.

So the Kon Kord LP issue is a straight repeat of the original Brown Door LP sound - but until this thread appeared I was unaware of this Epic. I was comparing my Brown Door 45 against the later Kon Kord issued sounding - hence the difference in the two cuts. Which now has many believer's that the Kon Kord issue " is not " actually a different version.

According to the dead wax markings I,ve estimated the styrene copy is also a 1974 press as is the vinyl copy, two different cities two different vinyl but there is no proof the styrene copy is a bootleg it is unlikely for two reasons. Most all copies sent to this country originate from Bob Catteneo, Bob never ever pressed any bootlegs in l.a.

Secondly two press in the Bay Area and L.A. Is not usual, or even to press in L.A. and release in Oakland The Circle M label is a fine example.

If you compare the two label of the different presses, ironically the STYRENE press label the silver text is infinitely crisper and the detail is on the DOOR logo is far more detailed. This is certainly no replica label.

The deadwax evidence points to

Styrene 1974 L. A. Press

Vinyl 1974 Oakland press

This is why we don't reference it in price guide 5 as a bootleg. Price difference is dictated by the inferior fidelity of the styrene press.

End Of Story - Thanks.

According to the dead wax markings I,ve estimated the styrene copy is also a 1974 press as is the vinyl copy, two different cities two different vinyl but there is no proof the styrene copy is a bootleg it is unlikely for two reasons. Most all copies sent to this country originate from Bob Catteneo, Bob never ever pressed any bootlegs in l.a.

Secondly two press in the Bay Area and L.A. Is not usual, or even to press in L.A. and release in Oakland The Circle M label is a fine example.

If you compare the two label of the different presses, ironically the STYRENE press label the silver text is infinitely crisper and the detail is on the DOOR logo is far more detailed. This is certainly no replica label.

The deadwax evidence points to

Styrene 1974 L. A. Press

Vinyl 1974 Oakland press

This is why we don't reference it in price guide 5 as a bootleg. Price difference is dictated by the inferior fidelity of the styrene press.

Brilliant. Thanks John, and everyone else who has contributed. Never had so much attention

ATB

John