Hi all,

I know OVO can be a touchy subject however I just wondered what UK labels are considered OVO. See personally I feel that Stateside, Grapevine and Kent are OVO and I buy records on these labels. I only ask as I am really getting into my British presses as I find:

1. They are better quality presses

2. They are sometimes significantly cheaper than US originals

However I am currently wanting to invest in more records and I am unsure on labels such as Joyboy, Destiny, Soul City. London (bought and Yvonne Baker on London and want to know if I can play it out) and The Epic releases of the Okeh tracks.

Just wanted to hear the opinions of some of you as you will be the people I might DJ for some time and I want to know what we are happy with and unhappy with.

Thanks and KTF! T x

You don't need permission for anything, just go and play it!

But if you have to have original vinyl, something like Yvonne Baker on London is in my opinion a reissue as it was released only because of demand from the Northern scene.

90% of 70's Northern releases were either reissues of tracks already released here in the 60's, or issued because of Northern demand.

I wouldn't play any at an OVO night unless they were original 60's issues or proper rare 70's like Jon Ford, Ray Merrell.

Thanks Pete, I normally do play my US if they want OVO but how would you feel to stuff like Melba Moore - Magic Touch on Kent and Betty Boo - Say It Isn't So on Grapevine as OVO?

"Can of worms..."

IMO (and it's only my opinion for what it's worth) then if it was a 'roughly' contempraneous release (ie within a few months of the US issue) then it's an Original.

So Jackey Beavers Trying To Get Back To You on Jay Boy (Boy 102) would be fine to play, but Jackie Lee 'Oh My Darlin' Jay Boy (Boy 28) wouldn't.

If it's a different mix/version, therefore there's no original release, then it's OK (ie Deon Jackson on Contemporaries, Montclairs on Contempo).

Edited June 18, 201212 yr by pikeys dog

"Can of worms..."

IMO (and it's only my opinion for what it's worth) then if it was a 'roughly' contempraneous release (ie within a few months of the US issue) then it's an Original.

So Jackey Beavers Trying To Get Back To You on Jay Boy (Boy 102) would be fine to play, but Jackie Lee 'Oh My Darlin' Jay Boy (Boy 28) wouldn't.

If it's a different mix/version, therefore there's no original release, then it's OK (ie Deon Jackson on Contemporaries, Montclairs on Contempo).

Unless any of the records have a letter F in the title and and it's an even day of the week, in which case the normal rules are reversed.

I woudn't try anifin on that there Tamla-Toytown label .... that's just a later rip-off of Stateside which was a real OVO label .... the uda un (T/Mot) came after so cain't be OVO ....

Same with Atlantic & Stax ... only try playing out wiv London-American label stuff ...

And as for Chess ... nope, can only play a US Chess track on UK if its on a Pye International R&B series logo 45.

basically if youre playing out at an OVO venue ...as far as grapevine/kent etc goes if its unreleased in EITHER the uk OR us then its ok i dont think it has to be a kent anniversary as thats basically just like a demo?....first uk release on grapevine when theres a 60s release in the us is not OVO

dean

Hi all,

I know OVO can be a touchy subject however I just wondered what UK labels are considered OVO. See personally I feel that Stateside, Grapevine and Kent are OVO and I buy records on these labels. I only ask as I am really getting into my British presses as I find:

1. They are better quality presses

2. They are sometimes significantly cheaper than US originals

However I am currently wanting to invest in more records and I am unsure on labels such as Joyboy, Destiny, Soul City. London (bought and Yvonne Baker on London and want to know if I can play it out) and The Epic releases of the Okeh tracks. Just wanted to hear the opinions of some of you as you will be the people I might DJ for some time and I want to know what we are happy with and unhappy with. Thanks and KTF! T x

There's no law on what you can play, good road map is it it came out in the 60s/70s in the as a 1st issue (Stateside, Parlophone, etc.) OK. If it got "issued" only because of demand, probably in the 70s, so as Pete says Yvonne Baker, NOK.

...... first uk release on grapevine when theres a 60s release in the us is not OVO ......

But I adjust the pitch on the deck controls (slowing it down a few BPM as we're all a lot older now) when I play my ol Grapevine 45's ... I then call it the 'Ro-burk Mix' and as it's an 'original' I can play it as OVO.

Thanks Pete, I normally do play my US if they want OVO but how would you feel to stuff like Melba Moore - Magic Touch on Kent and Betty Boo - Say It Isn't So on Grapevine as OVO?

Yeah I would - and have - played both of those.

Lou Barreto sent me a copy of Gloria Jones "Gone With The Wind" in March 2011 on CD and I played it as it was OCDO back then.

Now there's a UK 45 with this track on, can I still play it as OCDO or do I have to buy a copy of the 45 to get to play it out ??

... BTW, I think the OVO issue is a load of pigs-poo, hence my recent posts under this thread !!!

Hi all,

I know OVO can be a touchy subject however I just wondered what UK labels are considered OVO. See personally I feel that Stateside, Grapevine and Kent are OVO and I buy records on these labels. I only ask as I am really getting into my British presses as I find:

1. They are better quality presses

2. They are sometimes significantly cheaper than US originals

Thanks and KTF! T x

In my experience UK pressed records do play better, well I think so anyway, perhaps some anorak could confirm this

Edited June 19, 201212 yr by Chris L

Some UK presses are great quality but i've had US Brunswick copies that visually look knackered but still play excellent. I don't know what they mixed the vinyl with, but i been gobsmacked on playin them.

I nearly binned them.

In my experience UK pressed records do play better, well I think so anyway, perhaps some anorak could confirm this

If you hear the terrible quality of certain red Atlantics you'd change your mind...

sorry, timid boy at the back here...........whats OVO mean??

Sit up straight Mal.C.

stop fiddling and pay attention lol

sorry, timid boy at the back here...........whats OVO mean??

Original Vinyl Only

oh right, simple... with allot of tracks it can be tricky though, I just got a UK Darrell banks issue on Stateside of Pete which I never know came out on London American over here, not surprising cause I collect Aussie outside of yank releases, but I expect you would you all consider those both original releases?

to be honest I always plumb for originals, unless personally they are presses of tracks I bought in the eighties cause I had no money, so Mike Post on Soul Beat for example, or Alfie Davidson on SOS, in allot of cases they look far cooler that the orig release and simply take me back to being 16 and skint!... now I'm older i can afford to buy the original, but I like to play the reissues at home...

sorry mate not answered your question has it....

mal

Edited June 19, 201212 yr by Mal.C.

Thanks for you help everyone really shed some light for me

The USA release is the original vinyl in my humble opinion, but as long as its not a boot who cares!

Lou Barreto sent me a copy of Gloria Jones "Gone With The Wind" in March 2011 on CD and I played it as it was OCDO back then.

Now there's a UK 45 with this track on, can I still play it as OCDO or do I have to buy a copy of the 45 to get to play it out ??

... BTW, I think the OVO issue is a load of pigs-poo, hence my recent posts under this thread !!!

Funny you should mention that in-particular record as I bought the 45 of Gloria Jones - Gone With The Wind last weekend at Bisley

Just as a personal opinion as long as the release is licensed and sounds good it is an original in my humble opinion, like Lester Tipton - This Won't Change its so rare that I love it when someone plays it on Grapevine because I love it to be out dancing to it

HI ALL Interesting thread, that seems to cover the OVO, as far as UK goes, However the basic rules, as far as the scene goes, is a bit like this:-

RULE

1, DJ's should only play OVO, that's a must, and that's what is expected from the paying public, it's also a foundation block rule of the RARE SOUL SCENE.

2. Releases that are made to capitalise on hard to obtain records in any shape are worthless, and should be identified as such, in the manor like "Old Gold"

3. 60s 1st issues worth more than the US Original, (with only a few exceptions)

4.Most 60s UK pressed records, have a DEMO or PROMOTIONAL COPY with NOT FOR SALE (not all Labels though), DEMOS are worth about 25% more than the stock issue,(but again, a few issues are worth much more, normally 50% more).

5. Original acetates are nice and rare, but only worth a fraction of DEMOS, Some do have alternative cuts to what was released, these never come onto the market via dealers, so unless you are in the no! forget it, (you are not missing out as I have only come across 2)

6. most records that were released in the UK are worth below £100 if pressed after 1972,

7, UK collectors go for the the uptempo quality of records it does not have to be a US Back SOUL record, in fact it is this aspect what makes the NS Scene, their is no other way to put it.

8. Many UK Collectors have US Collections to be proud of, plus they have all round knowledge, so don't get mugged, always ask a UK collector 1st.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD TO LIST,

DAVE

Hang on Dave .........

Whilst I agree totally that the accepted norm is as you say ......

RULE 1: DJ's should only play OVO, that's a must, and that's what is expected from the paying public, it's also a foundation block rule of the RARE SOUL SCENE.

......... (personally though I'm not bothered what medium a track that gets me dancing is played off but that's just me).

................. BUT ....... don't forget that this is SOUL SOURCE ... not just NS Source ....

so a general soul fan, an oldies soul fan, a (mainstream) 60's soul fan (Stax / Atlantic / Motown) AND most definitely a MODERN SOUL fan doesn't apply the same strict rules ......

any & all MS DJ's can play off whatever medium they like AND OVO never comes into it. If a MS DJ wants to 'mix it up' (like lots of NS DJ's do now by slipping a 70's / 80's track into their playlist) and feature an old NS anthem (that fits) in their set, then not one MS fan would be dashing up to see if he was playing it off OVO.

So lets not forget, that whilst rare soul fans make up lots of the Soul Source readership, there are loads of others on here for who RULE 1 just doesn't apply.

Oh just thought, I have got so many copies of Rita & The Tiaras on different labels you wouldn't believe it: Dore (2005 issue), Joeboy, 3 on Destiny but the one I play out is the 2009 vinyl release from from those wonderful people at Kent Records, as it has the full three verses not the two and is a stero mix so therefore I think making that copy an OVO anyone else agree?

Hang on Dave .........

Whilst I agree totally that the accepted norm is as you say ......

RULE 1: DJ's should only play OVO, that's a must, and that's what is expected from the paying public, it's also a foundation block rule of the RARE SOUL SCENE.

......... (personally though I'm not bothered what medium a track that gets me dancing is played off but that's just me).

................. BUT ....... don't forget that this is SOUL SOURCE ... not just NS Source ....

so a general soul fan, an oldies soul fan, a (mainstream) 60's soul fan (Stax / Atlantic / Motown) AND most definitely a MODERN SOUL fan doesn't apply the same strict rules ......

any & all MS DJ's can play off whatever medium they like AND OVO never comes into it. If a MS DJ wants to 'mix it up' (like lots of NS DJ's do now by slipping a 70's / 80's track into their play list) and feature an old NS anthem (that fits) in their set, then not one MS fan would be dashing up to see if he was playing it off OVO.

So lets not forget, that whilst rare soul fans make up lots of the Soul Source readership, there are loads of others on here for who RULE 1 just doesn't apply.

HI ALL "MUSIC IS MUSIC TO GRING PEOPLE TOGETHER. We call it SOUL MUSIC so all of the goodness brings us together, that is all the rare soul scene, has always stood for TOGETHERNESS,& UNITY, We dislike words that end in IST or ISAM, as they are always preached by the obsessive in our society, the RARE SOUL SCENE DOES HAVE A FEW ISAMS that are except able such as headisam but I would prefer hedonistic,

The roots of the SOUL SCENE are not about collecting old records, as back in the late 6fs records that got a UK RELEASE were often 1 -5 years old when issued, outlets for American soul music or Jamaican SKA, ROCK STEADY (BLUEBEAT) Was at the time very hard to get and those who did acquire the records found them in the most undesirable locations, in fact the white kids that owned Black Music records in the Mid 6ts were undesirable, typically suited and booted, sharp as a Barrow Boy with a tongue to match, these people are the real hard core working class MODS, now from 65 and onwards all of the records that were played in SOHO & the Northern All Night clubs, well 96% of it come from specialist shops the rest was bought in to the country by people in the merchant or air stewardesses,

As such it was all obscure and current at it;s worst it was 3 years old, this is true about the Twisted Wheel one look at the Wheels top tunes in 1867 most were current US releases and some were only 2 years old, So all those who went to clubs north & South listened to the current soul of the day, in 68 as SOUL MUSIC changed Stateside, the music we listened to in the UK CHANGED?

Jamaican Music changed into REGGAE, US SOUL turned into a more political foundation with more meaning, away went the love songs and in come the soul with a message, this crossover modern soul meant little to many British kids AREATHAS RESPECT & JAMES BROWN "SAY IT LOUD, I;M BLACK AND I AM PROUD" Meant nothing to most kids who got a laugh from "on the buses£ and "til death do us part" but forget what you have read, as both north & south still liked to Dance the night away especially when perking?

as time goes buy we reach 1972 the latest SOUL SOUNDS WERE STILL BEING PLAYED YP NORTH & DOWN SOUTH, But the underground scene was split by uptempo soul verses funk, but the DJ in the uptempo scene, say at the TORCH were still playing current records, but given the tag as NORTHERN SOUL

Your remarks seem to suggest I know little about anything apart from northern soul, even though the modern soul scene plays records 25 years old? and most are failed DISCO RECORDS as a collector of all black music especially rare vinyl and I bet I can pick 10 better 70s tracks than most, if the modern scene is so big, why does it ride on the back of the rare soul scene, as it does, and why does it not embrace the very healthy current UK Black music scene? really do not what your point is, that you are trying to make?

However I do fully except your point that CD are OK, but I would say "it's what's in the GROOVE that counts" CD don't have grooves do they? and DJ that are seen holding 2 mirrors, makes me think of handbag thieves?

Listen to me rude boy, if you wanna learn sum-ting, so pick up ya feet and run, as the monkey man is after you! respect DAVE

Oh just thought, I have got so many copies of Rita & The Tiaras on different labels you wouldn't believe it: Dore (2005 issue), Joeboy, 3 on Destiny but the one I play out is the 2009 vinyl release from from those wonderful people at Kent Records, as it has the full three verses not the two and is a stero mix so therefore I think making that copy an OVO anyone else agree?

To be honest for me as a collector, my first choice is American releases over UK, if i do have a UK copy of a record, i don't settle till i have aquired the US version, the majority of soul records are (obviously) USA releases, but each to their own, but just by reading your posts i'm guessing you are dee-jaying out (locally ? ) and you seem to want to go down the OVO route (correctly in my opinion ) why make it difficult because you seem at odds with the records you have being on UK ( as stated earlier some pressed up later to meet the UK northern soul scene demand, back in the day ) I collect 60's but mainly 70's soul records,plus any decade as long as it works for me. There are thousand upon thousand of original American soul records that have never been re-issued from both the 60's and 70's, many affordable and many not . Some of the UK labels you seem interested in are re-issue labels of bigger 60's soul records, ( Grapevine for instance ) not all of course, but i personally collect the previously unreleased tracks from labels like Kent etc. I guess you make your choices and if you enjoy collecting the UK output then that is all that matters. I think if a record has a concurrent release on these shores say within months rather than years/decades then i think you could comfortably use them in an original vinyl spot.

Brett F

Edited June 21, 201212 yr by Brett F

I guess this is considered a re-issue ? Love it but at a cool £1000 plus for a US one way out of my league.............

Oh just thought, I have got so many copies of Rita & The Tiaras on different labels you wouldn't believe it: Dore (2005 issue), Joeboy, 3 on Destiny but the one I play out is the 2009 vinyl release from from those wonderful people at Kent Records, as it has the full three verses not the two and is a stero mix so therefore I think making that copy an OVO anyone else agree?

ask anyone that has a copy of the original in their play box and ask them, i think you may find they feel a little differently...just a thought

If it was released round about the time it was recorded, and for the normal UK market it is considered an original.

If it was released for a specialist market demand, like the Northern Scene, years after it was recorded, it's not considered original enough to play! Not much better than playing it on a CD!

Does not really matter if you are going to dj in the back room of a pub, but should matter in a serious venue!

Lou Barreto sent me a copy of Gloria Jones "Gone With The Wind" in March 2011 on CD and I played it as it was OCDO back then.

Now there's a UK 45 with this track on, can I still play it as OCDO or do I have to buy a copy of the 45 to get to play it out ??

... BTW, I think the OVO issue is a load of pigs-poo, hence my recent posts under this thread !!!

You definitely have to buy the 45 for two reasons.

1. You can't play a CD on a Technics SL1200

2. I won't make any money if you don't buy the 45

Phil

RE: You definitely have to buy the 45 for two reasons.

1. You can't play a CD on a Technics SL1200

2. I won't make any money if you don't buy the 45

Phil, I think that's called 'having a vested interest' !!!!!

RE: You definitely have to buy the 45 for two reasons.

1. You can't play a CD on a Technics SL1200

2. I won't make any money if you don't buy the 45

Phil, I think that's called 'having a vested interest' !!!!!

The world's full of vested interests.

And my vest has a big fist on the front and it says "Keep The Faith"

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by phild