I just want to throw a post up in light of the other Crossover topic.

Right just out of interest ( and i just really wanna hear/see people talk about the music :o ) give me one track (and only one) that best sums up to you the "term" Crossover.

For me i'll throw Harold Tylers "Reality" release on Tymo into the "Lions Den"

ps...no one person can define this "Genre", and this is just a fun topic.......

So please no battling on the terraces..there maybe children present

John why should your version of "What Crossover Means" be...........     

See you Saturday mate

link

It's not i've changed my mind my record is now the Del Larks

John

No mate it northern

No mate it northern

link

ZACTLY!!!!!!!

No its Northern

Sorry doubled up

Edited October 13, 200420 yr by miff

I understand the author may wish he had not raised the topic, but these forums are for debate and opinion and its good to include a cross section. Some topics get no response. In your case it got lots, so good on ya and keep up the participation.

Another for the list. Esther Williams - Let me show you. Brill.

Ed

yep Good topic starting Brett

way "terms" get interperated does make me smile

think to be fair way miff takes it is the most logical way - and if somehow were going to redifine all these defintions from afresh - would be the best one - though at moment as with most terms "logical" doen't play a part , and maybe not the right way for all - imo of course

working on way I myself take it ( when the style changed late 60s) one track for me would have to be

Jimmy Ellis- Happy to be -Century City

Good choice Mike, here's a tricky one:

William Bell - Happy - Stax

Recorded in 1969, but sounds sooo different, where would you 'pidgeon hole' it guys???

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaargh

Still sticking with the Del Larks but am now seriously considering Tommy Hunt's - Sign on the dotted line

Hee Hee!

Seriously this time.....

Frederick Hymes - Time Ain't Gonna Do Me No Favor - Fab Vegas.

Is that alright for you Von Trout?

Seriously this time.....

Frederick Hymes - Time Ain't Gonna Do Me No Favor - Fab Vegas.

Is that alright for you Von Trout?

link

Spot on Jamiecakes ;-)

Mrs Trout

Aye Appen lad

It obviously is something to get crossover :o

I'm sorry i don't want to upset anyone here but am i the only one that that thinks that Kenni Smith and Silvetti are out and out Northern Soul Classics, massive at the Mecca and Wigan, how come all of a sudden they are now crossover, you've lost me there, i know they are both 70's but then as far as i remember the northern scene has always embraced the 70's and still does today with a fair few of the big newies hailing from the 70's.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are, of course correct! I was just following the Silvetti thread rather than the x-over thread and for that I will stand in the corner and make myself listen to an hour's worth of 6ts RnB as punishment!

As suggested, I've opened up my box (probably 90% x-over/7ts!) and these are my fave x-over tunes...

Aristocrats - Let's Get Together Now

Alex Brown - I'm Not Responsible

Hamilton Movement - She's Gone (x-over as far as i'm concerned!)

Corey Blake - How Can I Go On Without You

Earl White Jr - Very Special Girl

Heaven, I'm in heaven....................

Steve

You are, of course correct! I was just following the Silvetti thread rather than the x-over thread and for that I will stand in the corner and make myself listen to an hour's worth of 6ts RnB as punishment! 

Easy Tiger there's no need for such drastic measures!!!!

As suggested, I've opened up my box (probably 90% x-over/7ts!) and these are my fave x-over tunes...

Aristocrats - Let's Get Together Now

Alex Brown - I'm Not Responsible

Hamilton Movement - She's Gone (x-over as far as i'm concerned!)

Corey Blake - How Can I Go On Without You

Earl White Jr - Very Special Girl

Heaven, I'm in heaven....................

Steve

link

Top tunage there Steve and all very firmly in the crossover tent, Yes Trouble it is most definitely xover (HM that is) you boys may have played it on your scene first, but really, it's practically Bobby Womack on vocal for gawds sake

Trouty

Ok then trouty we have seen lists of the tunes you like, but i want to know what your defanition of crossover is,so i can comper it with mine, as I seem to be the only person answering the question that was posted.

PS Can I keep the title semi known gem

Edited October 15, 200420 yr by miff

No it's a bloody classic!!! maybe not so in vogue now but it surely must have been hammered at Clethorpes back in the day as well. Shall we agree on the term forgotten Gem and it is a superb record btw just not crossover

Von Trout

Ok then trouty we have seen lists of the tunes you like, but i want to know what your defanition of crossover is,so i can comper it with mine, as I seem to be the only person answering the question that was posted.

PS Can I keep the title semi known gem 

link

He was supposed to write an article about this for me over two months ago and he still hasn't got round to it - hope you have more luck than me at getting him to define it Miff

That's me told then :o

John

Crossover, umm, still not really sure what this naughty little saying means but I'd plump for, Margie 'One more chance', Bobby P 'Im in love with you' & Willie Hutchinsons 'Lets try it over', absolutely impossible to decide on one choon for me I'm afraid.

The terms Flogging and horse come to mind, Anyway ime of out now to an oldies night in cleggy so no crossover there but if i here something that might crossover i will post it up

My personal definition of crossover is this:

Usually between 68-78 ish & was the sounds that were in the transitional period between the raw 6ts sound recorded on 4 track in a shed, to the more sophisticated disco sound using up to the minuit technology, the term crossover first appeared in the context that we use it towards the end of Stafford, I think, & my opinion is that it was a get out of jail free card for 6ts only DJ's who had burned their bridges by shunning more modern sounds & the modern DJ;s who had shunned the 6ts sounds, they could play sounds from either camp, that didn't quite fit into either camp with out losing face by pidgeon holing the genre as 'crossover'

PHEWWWWWWWWWWW what a load of bollocks, but thats my theory any way, crossover being my fave sound.

Couple of classic crossover tunes:

Darrel Banks- I'm the one who loves you

Ruby Andrews-Just loving you

Current fave:

Stan Martin-Big Mouth Woman

Hopefully food for thought

Russ

My personal definition of crossover is this:

Usually between 68-78 ish & was the sounds that were in the transitional period between the raw 6ts sound recorded on 4 track in a shed, to the more sophisticated disco sound using up to the minuit technology, the term crossover first appeared in the context that we use it towards the end of Stafford, I think, & my opinion is that it was a get out of jail free card for 6ts only DJ's who had burned their bridges by shunning more modern sounds & the modern DJ;s who had shunned the 6ts sounds, they could play sounds from either camp, that didn't quite fit into either camp with out losing face by pidgeon holing the genre as 'crossover'

PHEWWWWWWWWWWW what a load of bollocks, but thats my theory any way, crossover being my fave sound.

Russ

link

That load of bollocks Russ is perfect descritption to me mate

My personal definition of crossover is this:

Usually between 68-78 ish & was the sounds that were in the transitional period between the raw 6ts sound recorded on 4 track in a shed, to the more sophisticated disco sound using up to the minuit technology, the term crossover first appeared in the context that we use it towards the end of Stafford, I think, & my opinion is that it was a get out of jail free card for 6ts only DJ's who had burned their bridges by shunning more modern sounds & the modern DJ;s who had shunned the 6ts sounds, they could play sounds from either camp, that didn't quite fit into either camp with out losing face by pidgeon holing the genre as 'crossover'

PHEWWWWWWWWWWW what a load of bollocks, but thats my theory any way, crossover being my fave sound.

Couple of classic crossover tunes:

Darrel Banks- I'm the one who loves you

Ruby Andrews-Just loving you

Current fave:

Stan Martin-Big Mouth Woman

Hopefully food for thought

Russ

link

think that matchs own current taking of it, but interesting that "modern" crew seem to be using it in a more wider way , and others using it for northern 70s

think key word as Russ says is "personal definition" , same as all the other terms , "r &b" and even "northern" itself

best way is sack em all and just make your own up imo

Russ whats the story on

Stan Martin-Big Mouth Woman

seen it as lp track

sound clip anyone

just a bit of fun but where do these records fit into the soul music scene

1.Sven Zetterberg - Heartaches Was All You Got

2.Darrell Nulisch - Handle It With Care

<_<

The Stan Martin exists as both an LP track- from the album 'Stan Martin is DR Cool'

& was also released as a 45 Shatta: Sha 001, do not know the flip.

I f any one has either the LP or 45 for sale pse contact me off forum.

Darrell Nulisch & Sven G are Modern sounds, Sven G is a white Blues singer the Modern boys arn't the only people to look beyond the obvious in the seach for new & interesting sounds, Sven is just an imitation of a 7ts soul record, they're both obviously retro sounding as many new soul releases are, but they're not crossover sounds in the true sense.

Russ

Sven is just an imitation of a 7ts soul record, they're both obviously retro sounding as many new soul releases are, but they're not crossover sounds in the true sense.

Russ

link

Why not Russ, because they weren't made in '73?

The Stan Martin exists as both an LP track- from the album 'Stan Martin is DR Cool'

& was also released as a 45 Shatta: Sha 001, do not know the flip.

I f any one has either the LP or 45 for sale pse contact me off forum.

Russ

link

Tracked this down , as found in past Russ has good taste

Threw sound clip up in sounds

listen here

Seems like its a Candian lp , possibly 45 as well ?

one went thru recently on ebay at 100 bucks ish

enjoyable track

Tracked this down , as found in past  Russ has good  taste

Threw sound clip up in sounds

listen here

Seems like its a Candian lp , possibly 45 as well ?

one went thru recently on ebay at 100 bucks ish

enjoyable track

link

Jerry Walsh had an LP for sale a couple of weeks back, pretty sure he had it up on here and Soul Talk for either 100 or 150 can't remember exactly great record, Sam spun it last night at Lifeline

John

John

My comments on the DN & SG are based on the fact that they were new releases when played therefore must be Modern as they were not recorded using the techniques in recording studios between 68-78, yes they sound retro, but they are new recordings.

I have just read that back & even I think that it sounds like a load of waffle, but hopefully you get the point.

waddoya think John ???

Not wishing or meaning to be rude blunt whatever but why should your version of "What Crossover Means" be the definitive version Brett? I probably phrased that all wrong but it got your attention though eh   

What i'm trying to get at is that crossover means many things to many people and there really isn't in my opinion (and that's the point it is just my opinion  ) any definitive crossover sound because it changes and evolves all the time, yes it does maintain a vibe but IMVFHO it really doesn't do to try and pigeon hole these things too much just to satisfy a need to endlessly catergorise and compartmentalise.

What about the records that crossover from the modern scene to the Northern scene but don't fit this neat little '69 - '73 timeslot that has been allocated?  It's a minefield 

John

link

its a minefield madder than mad jack mcmadds mad minefield indeed. however, it's worth reading 'voices' (no 15 or 16) and that gives as good an explanation to what 'crossover' was all about. can't remember who wrote the article but well worth tracking it down. IMO all this trying to shove a square peg into the xover misses the point really

one crossover record

simple really, 'Ella Woods - I need your love'

chers

just a bit of fun but where do these records fit into the soul music scene

1.Sven Zetterberg - Heartaches Was All You Got

2.Darrell Nulisch - Handle It With Care

<_<

link

they fit very nicely in with Tad Robinson's take on 'Too late to turn back now' as quality soul records. Otis Clay on backing - what more could a boy ask for??

just a bit of fun but where do these records fit into the soul music scene

1.Sven Zetterberg - Heartaches Was All You Got

2.Darrell Nulisch - Handle It With Care

<_<

link

I guess if it sounds right, play it..

Where do these records fit in:

Rocky Roberts "stassera mi buto"

Paul Anka "i can't help loving you"

"the joker"

e.tc.

best

Leo

John

My comments on the DN & SG are based on the fact that they were new releases when played therefore must be Modern as they were not recorded using the techniques in recording studios between 68-78, yes they sound retro, but they are new recordings.

I have just read that back & even I think that it sounds like a load of waffle, but hopefully you get the point.

waddoya think John ???

link

I take your point about them being contempory releases but the same could be said about Charles Johnson and King Tutt and a host of others that were played as new releases back in the day. For me nowadays it's more about the vibe of the record than when it was made. The reason for this is simple these sort of records do not get an airing in today's Modern Soul scene. Modern Soul 2004 is comprised predominantly from current upfront material with a smattering of retro steppers and obscure album tracks laced with a hint of soulful dance. The whole retro sounding records simply fall on deaf ears at the majority of these events, in fact a dear friend and prominant Modern DJ laughed out loud and took the piss for an age when someone suggested to him that SZ was a modern record (and he had a point )

The Crossover scene (as small as it is regionally) is the only place that these sort of records get an airing, the fact that they are new is irrelevant IMO, they sound right and are therefore accepted and played. Here are a couple of others that i would put into the same category Rhianna, New Master Sounds ft Corrine Bailey, Artie Bluesboy White, Git Shorty to name just a few. None of them Modern Soul as such, not in the current sense at least but all have that crossover vibe, groove call it what you will. At the end of the day it's all subjective and it really doesn't matter what you call it so long as it's good

John

I guess if it sounds right, play it.. 

Where do these records fit in:

Rocky Roberts "stassera mi buto"

Paul Anka "i can't help loving you"

"the joker"

e.tc.

best

Leo

link

The BIN Leo

The BIN Leo     

link

to say the least John, ok that it's Paul Ankas best recording but i would say the other ones have to scooch on back to hell where they came from

best

Le

Modern Soul 2004 is comprised predominantly from current upfront material with a smattering of retro steppers and obscure album tracks laced with a hint of soulful dance. The whole retro sounding records simply fall on deaf ears at the majority of these events, in fact a dear friend and prominant Modern DJ laughed out loud and took the piss for an age when someone suggested to him that SZ was a modern record (and he had a point )

John

link

Probably wouldn't go that far Adam but you have a point to a degree. Generally i find that most Modern Soul afficianados have some roots in Northern and most still like it but when they are out they want to hear current material prefering to buy new records in volume rather than old and in their opinions over priced records that they remember as £3 new releases. Obviously that is a massive generalisation but that attitude is a common one and not without it's merits, if only from a common sense perspective (buy cheap now sell dear later)

Looking forward to Friday mate it looks like it's gonna be a cracker see you at the bar

John

I just want to throw a post up in light of the other Crossover topic.

Right just out of interest ( and i just really wanna hear/see people talk about the music :o ) give me one track (and only one) that best sums up to you the "term" Crossover.

ps...no one person can define this "Genre", and this is just a fun topic.......

So please no battling on the terraces..there maybe children present

For me i'll throw Harold Tylers "Reality" release on Tymo into the "Lions Den"

site note - just cleaned this up a bit for saxy 2004 - think got it right

the "quotes function, can take a bit of getting used to - the trick is the quotes tags at start and finish -mike

Spot on John I have a theory on the attitude of a few Contemporary soul fans  .Most of the folks who whether serious or not beliitle Northern,crossover,attitudes(We can slag them off but keep reading) didnt come into the scene like a majority from Northern backgrounds.Some started with Chart Disco,English soul,Jazz funk ala Animal nightlife ,loose ends stuff like that.So they dont get the meaning of "modern "in the sense of new sounds played on the Northern scene, to people who had little or no contact with chart stuff or what radio 1 peebles used to play.Its a bit of a twisted theory I know but I do get a little peeved still when they slag of stuff I was dancing to when they were listening to ABC.Do I make sense or am I talking broken biscuits?

will discuss over JD on friday?

Adam

link

I find that the majority of people into Modern from the North West/Midlands came through the Northern thing and branched off into Modern in the late 70's early 80's wereas the majority of Southern people into Modern,were pretty much unaware of the Northern scene,and did the Caister,Chris King,Froggy thing.

Cheers

Pete

Johnson,hawkins,Tatum & Durr -Your Love-is a wonderful track,played it out last time, got a good reaction.

BTW, nobody answered me question yet about who they are.

The Chandlers or what?

Tony

link

Should be the Chandlers, yes(I think!).

J.Smith has written both groups songs and also arranged them (capsoul/colsoul)

As an outsider to the finer points of this conversation as I have been away from the scene for years, I am confused - not that I generally haven't been for years, in the way the Northern Scene has always conducted its' little idiosynchrosies but that's another story....

Please tell me yes or no....

Leon Thomas - LOVE

Eloise Laws - Love Factory

Lady Margo - Simply Want To Make It

Roger K - 'Give Me The Love (I'm Needing)

Willi J & Co - 'Boogie With Your Baby'

James Fountain - 'Seven Day Lover'

Ann D'Andrea - 'Don't Stop Looking'

Channel 3 - 'Sweetest Thing'

Art & Honey - 'Let's Make Love Now'

Fantastic Johnny C - 'Don't depend On Me'

Am I wide of the mark?

Edited October 19, 200420 yr by Hottwaxx

All in my very humble opinion of course

Eloise Laws - Love Factory (Northern Classic Oldie)

Lady Margo - Simply Want To Make It (Crossover)

Willi J & Co - 'Boogie With Your Baby' (Funk/Northern Classic Oldie)

James Fountain - 'Seven Day Lover' (Funk/Northern Classic Oldie)

Channel 3 - 'Sweetest Thing' (Crossover)

Art & Honey - 'Let's Make Love Now' (Modern/Crossover)

Fantastic Johnny C - 'Don't depend On Me' (Northern Classic Oldie)

All in my very humble opinion of course

Eloise Laws - Love Factory (Northern Classic Oldie)

Lady Margo - Simply Want To Make It (Crossover)

Willi J & Co - 'Boogie With Your Baby' (Funk/Northern Classic Oldie)

James Fountain - 'Seven Day Lover' (Funk/Northern Classic Oldie)

Channel 3 - 'Sweetest Thing' (Crossover)

Art & Honey - 'Let's Make Love Now' (Modern/Crossover)

Fantastic Johnny C - 'Don't depend On Me' (Northern Classic Oldie)

link

It's a bloody minefield innit?

I think i may have said that earlier your best bet is to come along to the Orwell at Wigan Pier this Friday to hear the Brothers Rippolles and Bob Cosby spin their sounds in a Tent music Spectacular with the Orwell residents Flanny, Plumby, The Maleady tripletts and Steve Connor

Von Trout

I've got most of those above Johnners, and it's interesting to see how you 'score' them.

Channel 3 (One of my personal faves) I would have thought you would have classed as 70's Northern? Does this still get plays?

I know I play it, but I play it because I love it.

I'm not really keen on what 'Modern' is. I'm non-plussed on the new releases as a whole, but do enjoy some.

I suppose my limit stops at Early/Mid 80's (Cheryl Berdell, Charles Mann etc) with only very few after that catching my ear.

It is interesting to look at one of the first 'Goldmine' CD's 'Modern' soul, and to look at the playlist (Daybreak, Charles Johnson, Al Mason et al) and compare what the term 'Modern' means now.

And that is only in the space of about 10 years!

Confused? I'm off for a pint

Jamie

I think i may have said that earlier your best bet is to come along to the Orwell at Wigan Pier this Friday to hear the Brothers Rippolles and Bob Cosby spin their sounds in a Tent music Spectacular with the Orwell residents Flanny, Plumby, The Maleady tripletts and Steve Connor

Von Trout

link

The Maleady tripletts

It was Barry's fault that I ended up ruining my life on this scene - I used to go as a kid to The Court/Regency Dance Centre do's that he & Keith Williams (was it?) used to do in around 77/78 - bit of Disco/Northern/Bowie/Roxt etc.

Never forgave him.

I'm starting to get a hint that 'crossover' seems to be stuff that never had a niche to be played bitd.

Is it stuff that really didn't get an airing at the time due to being not one way or the other then?

Do I sound like a child? haha

I think i may have said that earlier your best bet is to come along to the Orwell at Wigan Pier this Friday to hear the Brothers Rippolles and Bob Cosby spin their sounds in a Tent music Spectacular with the Orwell residents Flanny, Plumby, The Maleady tripletts and Steve Connor

Von Trout

link

Yes I can safely say that the Orwell this Friday should give the biggest clue possible to anyone uncertain of the type of music that gets classed as Crossover. Myself and my bro David have the pleasure and privalige of being able to play 9.00 till 10.30, and we will be mixing it up nicely within the parametres of 60's / 70's / 80's Crossover. Some things like Stan Martin, Frankie Zhivago, Tolbert, Dolly Gilmore, Nobodies Children, Clay Brown, Sweet Mixture, Mixed Emotions, Cania, Pulse.....etc, etc will be played, let alone what Bob Cosby will throw in the pot. Should be reasonably good I would think.

Jordi

Jamie get yourself down to Wigan on Friday mate, you'll love it trust me

Dr Troutman