Can anybody tell me if the black text Arctic label is " 2nd issue" - or doesn't it matter?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Black text vinyl Arctic Soul Grooves are real.

There are two or three black text Arctics.

Think Ambassadors Storm Warning is another but would have to check.

 

Trev

Actually this thread just reminded me of a question. Is the Teddy of Teddy & The Fingerpoppers Teddy Pendergrass I wonder since he was a drummer prior to doing vocals for Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes....?

 

Ian D 

Thanks guys. Concerning Teddy I have only found this link so far:

 

https://www.npr.org/2013/06/10/189284120/arctic-records-drafting-a-blueprint-for-the-philly-sound

I always thought Teddy was mr P.

 

Also the last release which was Royal Five was 1969.

Black text vinyl Arctic Soul Grooves are real.

There are two or three black text Arctics.

Think Ambassadors Storm Warning is another but would have to check.

 

Trev

 

 

Can anybody tell me if the black text Arctic label is " 2nd issue" - or doesn't it matter?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

Most definitely does matter Dave, it was brought out twice.... God knows why, i just wish someone in high esteem would resolve this once and for all

Manships bootleg guide says that the black text are 2nd issues

...thanks Jeri

I've got them both - exactly the same except the colour of the text. Black text is a second press, thought not necessarily a 'second issue' IMO. Its  just another run with differing label colours (as far as i'm aware)

 

Actually this thread just reminded me of a question. Is the Teddy of Teddy & The Fingerpoppers Teddy Pendergrass I wonder since he was a drummer prior to doing vocals for Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes....?

 

Ian D 

Yes, its Teddy Pendergrass. 

 but I can't see how it matters in this specific instance. Both worth the same, i'd say. 

...thanks Jeri

 

It also says tetley tea on side of buses

Most definitely does matter Dave, it was brought out twice.... God knows why, i just wish someone in high esteem would resolve this once and for all

 

It also says tetley tea on side of buses

i was just quoteing what manships bootleg book says, he also quotes a differenance in the price between the two. its the same with the volcanos laws of love isn't it?

I thought all the Arctics with black print were second issues?

Yes, its Teddy Pendergrass. 

 but I can't see how it matters in this specific instance. Both worth the same, i'd say. 

 

What source of information are you relying on as regards Teddy of Teddy and the Fingerpoppers being Teddy Pendergrass?

Edited January 7, 201510 yr by sunnysoul

i was just quoteing what manships bootleg book says, he also quotes a differenance in the price between the two. its the same with the volcanos laws of love isn't it?

 

The jury is out on this one Jeri

I thought all the Arctics with black print were second issues?

Get cast iron proof for us Phil, so many loose theory's.

Been over this before.There are actually 3 variations,I ended up with a black text one but there are

 

one with blue text

one with black text

one with blue text on one side and black on the other side

 

My info is that they are all originals done around the same time.Who knows which run was first i certainly dont.But all are fine in my book but i suppose if you want to be dead certain you have to get a Demo

Been over this before.There are actually 3 variations,I ended up with a black text one but there are

 

one with blue text

one with black text

one with blue text on one side and black on the other side

 

My info is that they are all originals done around the same time.Who knows which run was first i certainly dont.But all are fine in my book but i suppose if you want to be dead certain you have to get a Demo

 

Was there any particular reason why the black text copy in Manships price guide (4th) is priced £25 and the blue £75.... I dare not ask John

Was there any particular reason why the black text copy in Manships price guide (4th) is priced £25 and the blue £75.... I dare not ask John

 

I think its because most people assumed that the Blue Text is the first so that would command a higher price.But who knows for sure the Arctics are such a minefield. Also how do you explain the ones with blue on one side and black on the other.It would be nice for J M to clarify

I think its because most people assumed that the Blue Text is the first so that would command a higher price.But who knows for sure the Arctics are such a minefield. Also how do you explain the ones with blue on one side and black on the other.It would be nice for J M to clarify

 

What about the one sided Demo as well.... The plot thickens!

Some More info on differing texts here

https://jamguy.com/Teddy_and_the_Fingerpoppers/

Some More info on differing texts here

https://jamguy.com/Teddy_and_the_Fingerpoppers/

 

Thanks Patto but i only do basic stuff, fast in body but slow in mind

Thanks Patto but i only do basic stuff, fast in body but slow in mind

I'll vouch for him on that .....as an unpaid carer !!!!

I'll vouch for him on that .....as an unpaid carer !!!!

 

Such kind words

...thanks guys, I just paid a wad for the black text - but it was well worth it just to for your banter

Well i would buy the black texts for 25 every day of the week.

Put them side by side and there is no difference.

Johnny M is not infallible!! Not having a go just saying in my opinion on this he is incorrect.

As i stated earlier the Ambassadors Storm Warning is black text and i dont think i have seen this with blue.

Also if memory serves me right Jimmy Bishop Blackman is black text.  

 

I am talking about 60,s vinyl pressings and not 70,s re-issues.

 

Trev 

Try getting £7-800 for a Kenny Gamble with black text. 

Try getting £7-800 for a Kenny Gamble with black text.  

 

 

The Jokes on me.  

Well i would buy the black texts for 25 every day of the week.

Put them side by side and there is no difference.

Johnny M is not infallible!! Not having a go just saying in my opinion on this he is incorrect.

As i stated earlier the Ambassadors Storm Warning is black text and i dont think i have seen this with blue.

Also if memory serves me right Jimmy Bishop Blackman is black text.  

 

I am talking about 60,s vinyl pressings and not 70,s re-issues.

 

Trev 

 

If i'm not mistaken but i reckon both are now same price... well at least in 5th edition (not sure about 6th) so what does that tell us?

...5th edition black text 25 pound blue text 75 pound. I ordered 6th addition last night so I'll keep you informed.

 

Could it be that Mr. Manship has a warehouse full of records that he releases onto the market at a rate that keeps the prices up and his business profitable. He also controls pricing through his own price lists (the bible for most). Just a thought.....

...5th edition black text 25 pound blue text 75 pound. I ordered 6th addition last night so I'll keep you informed.

 

Could it be that Mr. Manship has a warehouse full of records that he releases onto the market at a rate that keeps the prices up and his business profitable. He also controls pricing through his own price lists (the bible for most). Just a thought.....

 

Must have been 6th i read it in then... Thank-you Mister

I've got the one side blue, one side black copy. I take it that it is an original?

If that is TEDDY P,then a great piece of info has just emerged.

 

Thanks

It also says tetley tea on side of buses

take no notice of danny.....what does he know about soul and djing lol

just play the bloody thing lol

If that is TEDDY P,then a great piece of info has just emerged.

 

Thanks

I guess it makes them both pressed at the same time. Just wanted to be sure.

just play the bloody thing lol

Wii do. This Friday at TSWI!

I guess it makes them both pressed at the same time. Just wanted to be sure.

 

I like the idea particularly if he was a drummer.

 

GIVE THE DRUMMER SOME...

TEDDY & THE FINGERPOPPERS - SOUL GROOVE

 

This was played at WIGAN by KEV ROBERTS CIRCA 1973/74...also by myself at the CENTRE HOTEL, LEICESTER.

In fact most DJ's were behind it at the time.

 

other Biggies included

 

BONGALIS - UNDERCOVER

 

HUNS REVIEW - DON'T MAKE ME LOVE YOU

Edited January 19, 201510 yr by RUDZY

just play the bloody thing lol

 

Exactly Gordon, they are like schoolkids aren't they.... squabbling over colours

To my knowledge, Soul Groove black lettered on light blue ground is a legal re-issue. Only no. 152 to 159 came as orig. stock copies black lettered on light blue ground, all others where issued originally with dark blue letters on light blue ground (while a few releases were never issued as stock copy) and not all releases were pressed at the virtue pressing plant.

as additional info, a few releases are also available as west coast monarch styrene presses, but only dj copies as far as I know.

Andreas how do you know for sure and how do you explain the ones with black text on one side and blue on other.I assume they were all done around the same time period and are just first second and third runs or different plants.To suggest the black text is a reissue means it was done a lot later so what evidence do you have for that.Why would they reissue it later.

I dont know for sure but until given solid proof will regard all the three variants as originals.

To my knowledge, Soul Groove black lettered on light blue ground is a legal re-issue. Only no. 152 to 159 came as orig. stock copies black lettered on light blue ground, all others where issued originally with dark blue letters on light blue ground (while a few releases were never issued as stock copy) and not all releases were pressed at the virtue pressing plant.

as additional info, a few releases are also available as west coast monarch styrene presses, but only dj copies as far as I know.

 

Good stuff Andreas, but i reckon unless an Arctic rep comes on here then it's just guesswork. It's when we say "re-issue" that it arouses suspicion/debate.... can you put legal and re-issue together?

Good stuff Andreas, but i reckon unless an Arctic rep comes on here then it's just guesswork. It's when we say "re-issue" that it arouses suspicion/debate.... can you put legal and re-issue together?

Well, I mean a legit second press, of course a re-issue should be legal otherwise you would call it a bootleg. Sorry if I confused someone.

Andreas how do you know for sure and how do you explain the ones with black text on one side and blue on other.I assume they were all done around the same time period and are just first second and third runs or different plants.To suggest the black text is a reissue means it was done a lot later so what evidence do you have for that.Why would they reissue it later.

I dont know for sure but until given solid proof will regard all the three variants as originals.

There is sadly nothing proof to get about that today, but I had some debates with philly soul collectors about this topic when I lived in philly and no matter if young or old, they all had the same idea about what I just stated above.

Andreas how do you know for sure and how do you explain the ones with black text on one side and blue on other.I assume they were all done around the same time period and are just first second and third runs or different plants.To suggest the black text is a reissue means it was done a lot later so what evidence do you have for that.Why would they reissue it later.

I dont know for sure but until given solid proof will regard all the three variants as originals.

 

Thye may re-issue it later due to local demand.? Only needed a radio dj to spin it locally and bob's your auntie. As for the labels black/blue,maybe the labels were sent ahead to pressing plant and used as required.? Pure speculation of course.

Anyone want to throw a theory about this one into the ring?

 

Vinyl WLP  with black text both sides.

 

Anyone want to throw a theory about this one into the ring?

 

Vinyl WLP  with black text both sides.

 

teddy.jpg

My theory is that you are a show off .The record looks a bit bland all black and white and the sticker looks a bit dodgey.Also i bet it doesnt sound any different to my colourful blue label black text one that no one can confirm for sure is not an original.Nice record mate demos are very scarce

Andreas is correct in that there are most certainly  black text first press original Arctic releases. Barbara Mason "You Better Stop It " is one example.

 

From an Arctic discography  Arctic 143 Teddy and the Finger Poppers was released in 1968, Barbara Mason Arctic 153 was released in 1969.

 

One theory could be that it was given a second press because of local demand a few months after release? However you look at it it's an original.

 

Of much more interest is if this is an early Teddy Pendergrass recording. I've listened again and there are similarities in the vocal range but I'm not certain...

Edited February 14, 201510 yr by stockholmsoulfox

I have also been confused as to why the black and blue inks were used and if indeed one was a 2nd issue ..... I got in touch with a friend over the pond to ask if he knew, he is in contact with Arctic .. I also gave him a link to this thread, so hopefully a post will be coming soon

This is part of his response to me ....

 I did ask the guy over at arctic - there was never a second run - the song was considered a dud by the company so they only pressed one round. I am meeting with him tomorrow - he is preparing to settle this issue once and for all!

I will show him the blogs you pointed out.

I sure would like to finally settle this once and for all philly.I have a black text one,and dont forget to mention the ones with black on one side and blue on the flip.Let us know mate anything your source reveals.

I sure would like to finally settle this once and for all philly.I have a black text one,and dont forget to mention the ones with black on one side and blue on the flip.Let us know mate anything your source reveals.

Yeah he is aware of all the varying colours, one suggestion was that either the pressing plant ran out of blue and rather than stop the run, continued in black, that would make sense with the blue/black on either side, then rest of run done in black ... sure we will find out soon, have also asked him to find out who Teddy was ???