Please, I need the matrix number of B. Garrett - I can´t get Away - Mirwood , to differ the press of vinyl to the styrene.

Thanks in advance.

The vinyl is a boot

matrix: 59636

65-1037

styrene is the original

The vinyl is a boot

matrix: 59636

65-1037

styrene is the original

Thank you Andy !

Thank you Andy !

Hi Albert. I used to live in Catalunya in Barcelona. Were you at the Soul Boat weekend in 2000? That was a great weekend. You Spanish lads really know how to get a good atmosphere going. Met some great characters from the Basque country that weekend Aitor and a few more. I really miss Spain. Maybe move back some day.

Do you know Eduardo Domingo? One of my favourite Soul DJ's in the world.

I have a vinyl boot that looks identical to the original apart from the matrix number I think. When it comes to matrix numbers Im not that knowledgable as I d rather read a book. But some of the more serious collectors on here let me know it was a boot I had. Shame because I thought it was the original. Only paid £10 for it so not to worry.

The vinyl is a boot

matrix: 59636

65-1037

styrene is the original

You're wrong Andy, that matrix correctly dates it to the 60's and I've had several vinyl originals

You're wrong Andy, that matrix correctly dates it to the 60's and I've had several vinyl originals

You would no better than me Pete.

But some other lad on here told me that those matrix numbers matched with the fact that its vinyl (less sturdy than the styrene?) meant it was a boot.

Who should I believe?

I will admit mucho ignorance in the area of discerning some boots from originals. Some are very obvious and others I wouldn't have a clue.

Hope it's the original if so got a right bargain. After buying it for £10 I checked the going price and was presently surprised. Then I got told it was a boot on here.

You would no better than me Pete.

But some other lad on here told me that those matrix numbers matched with the fact that its vinyl (less sturdy than the styrene?) meant it was a boot.

Who should I believe?

I will admit mucho ignorance in the area of discerning some boots from originals. Some are very obvious and others I wouldn't have a clue.

Hope it's the original if so got a right bargain. After buying it for £10 I checked the going price and was presently surprised. Then I got told it was a boot on here.

Believe me! All the info is in the delta number that you quoted, you can date it almost to the month it was released. Practically all Northern Soul bootlegs have delta numbers in the 90000 and 100000 - 1973 to 1978

The vinyl is a boot

matrix: 59636

65-1037

styrene is the original

Thanks Pete. Can you tell me what does the delta number and the other numbers signify?

Thanks Pete. Can you tell me what does the delta number and the other numbers signify?

IF YOU HAVNT GOT JMS BOOTLEG GUIDE...GET IT !...ESSENTIAL...

DELTA NUMBERS ARE MONARCH RECORDINGS (MR)STAMPS AND ARE DATED FROM 34320 IN 1960 TO 78959 IN DEC69...AS THEY PRESSED A LOT OF THE BOOTS IN THE 70S THE NUMBERS BY THEN WERE INTO THE "10S" SO A 60S CLASSIC WITH THE NUMBER 101987 WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT 74

IF YOU HAVNT GOT JMS BOOTLEG GUIDE...GET IT !...ESSENTIAL...

DELTA NUMBERS ARE MONARCH RECORDINGS (MR)STAMPS AND ARE DATED FROM 34320 IN 1960 TO 78959 IN DEC69...AS THEY PRESSED A LOT OF THE BOOTS IN THE 70S THE NUMBERS BY THEN WERE INTO THE "10S" SO A 60S CLASSIC WITH THE NUMBER 101987 WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT 74

Would a legal re-issue of a 6ts track in the 70's have similar delta numbers to legitimate/original 7ts releases?

IF YOU HAVNT GOT JMS BOOTLEG GUIDE...GET IT !...ESSENTIAL...

DELTA NUMBERS ARE MONARCH RECORDINGS (MR)STAMPS AND ARE DATED FROM 34320 IN 1960 TO 78959 IN DEC69...AS THEY PRESSED A LOT OF THE BOOTS IN THE 70S THE NUMBERS BY THEN WERE INTO THE "10S" SO A 60S CLASSIC WITH THE NUMBER 101987 WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT 74

76-77 actually but thats not important

IF YOU HAVNT GOT JMS BOOTLEG GUIDE...GET IT !...ESSENTIAL...

DELTA NUMBERS ARE MONARCH RECORDINGS (MR)STAMPS AND ARE DATED FROM 34320 IN 1960 TO 78959 IN DEC69...AS THEY PRESSED A LOT OF THE BOOTS IN THE 70S THE NUMBERS BY THEN WERE INTO THE "10S" SO A 60S CLASSIC WITH THE NUMBER 101987 WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT 74

My Copies are Styrene

Also came out on Purple Label

www.popsike.com

An Excellent Link for Monarch Delta #'s / Dates and Many More Pressing Plant Details.

>>> ANORAKS CORNER <<<

Edited November 30, 200717 yr by 45cellar

76-77 actually but thats not important

was just quoting the book ! dont really know f*** all !....

good question about the legit 70s reissue...i suspect as it was legit they wouldnt be tryng to copy the original label to fool anyone so would be obvious reissue whatever the number....??

Also came out on Purple Label

www.popsike.com

Don't think I've ever seen that before, Roger.

Strange.

Any other 'Purple' Mirwoods out there?

Sean

Don't think I've ever seen that before, Roger.

Strange.

Any other 'Purple' Mirwoods out there?

Sean

Hi Sean

RE: Purple Bobby Garrett

I haven't seen one other than a scan on Popsike.com and

someone on here has Mentioned that they have a copy.

RE: Purple Mirwood

I bought the top two from Soul Bowl in the 70's.

The Bottom two from ebay in recent years.

----------------------Vinyl-------------------------------------Styrene

-From Soul Bowl

-From ebay

----------------------Vinyl-------------------------------------Styrene

I'm currently looking at the Vinyl Purple Label, the only one I'm not 100% sure with.

Looks to be a Vinyl Monarch Delta # 59032

It is a different hand that has Scratched the Delta # on this one

to the other Styrene Monarchs which are Monarch Stamped.

Edited November 30, 200717 yr by 45cellar

Please, I need the matrix number of B. Garrett - I can´t get Away - Mirwood , to differ the press of vinyl to the styrene.

Thanks in advance.

There are Vinyl Originals and Vinyl boots, booted about the same time as Jimmy Thomas on Mirwood and looks similar. Styrene issues are original as well.

There are Vinyl Originals and Vinyl boots, booted about the same time as Jimmy Thomas on Mirwood and looks similar. Styrene issues are original as well.

There are Styrene Original and Vinyl Originals throughout the Label

I have found with Quite a few there are 2 Different DEMO's

& with some many different Label Variations.

Unfortunately there are counterfeit copies of some.

I have tried to cover Most of the Different Label Variations on Hitsville Soulclub.

>>> MIRWOOD <<<

A project that is still unfinished, but Ongoing.

Any missing Mirwood scans welcome, with credit to supplier.

Edited November 30, 200717 yr by 45cellar

How can you tell the vinyl boot to an original vinyl?

I was told on this forum by John Manship that all the vinyls are boots.

Rob

How can you tell the vinyl boot to an original vinyl?

I was told on this forum by John Manship that all the vinyls are boots.

Rob

Hi Rob

I Suspect he may have been refering to a Specific Issue.

Delta Numbers are most helpful regarding the Date of production.

Combined with the Monarch Matrix Stamp MR within the circle and on Styrene this applies.

The problem is that some Monarchs are Vinyl and may or maynot have a very good Matrix Stamp MR

That is the problem that I have with the Vinyl Purple Label of Jackie Lee - The Duck - 5502.

Is It an Original, or has It been etched by someone with the Delta #

& Not Forgetting that

Other pressing Plants were used to produce the Mirwood Stuff.

I will get both my copies of Bobby Garrett and Post the Matrix Details.

Edited December 1, 200717 yr by 45cellar

How can you tell the vinyl boot to an original vinyl?

I was told on this forum by John Manship that all the vinyls are boots.

Rob

Must be true then

Must be true then

Think he told me the same.

Think he told me the same.

That may well be the case with 5508 Bobby Garrett

I will post up the Matrix Details from my copies.

Edited December 1, 200717 yr by 45cellar

this was booted as a white demo easy to spot

then counterfeited as a blue stock copy using very flexible VINYL (you can do a Rolf Harris impression with it) and copying DELTA # 59636 and lots of other very unconvincing squiggles and numbers etc.

PS i've accumulated quite a number of copies of these.. i don't sell them cause they end up on e-bay as originals.

Edited December 1, 200717 yr by john manship

Thanks John

I always refer to this one. Two different DEMO's one has the B Side the other Double A

-------------------STYRENE-----------------------------------VINYL----------------------------------------VINYL

-----------------STYRENE----------------------------------STYRENE--------------------------------------STYRENE

As Western Movies had been a Hit For them before,

I wonder If It was removed from Promotion to Give "Baby, Do The Philly Dog" a better chance.

Edited December 1, 200717 yr by 45cellar

How can you tell the vinyl boot to an original vinyl?

I was told on this forum by John Manship that all the vinyls are boots.

Rob

How can anybody say that when Mirwood used loads of different pressing plants, I have Mirwoods with the same "bed" matrix as MGM and Nashville Matrix Mirwoods as well as Monarch vinyl originals.

this was booted as a white demo easy to spot

then counterfeited as a blue stock copy using very flexible VINYL (you can do a Rolf Harris impression with it) and copying DELTA # 59636 and lots of other very unconvincing squiggles and numbers etc.

PS i've accumulated quite a number of copies of these.. i don't sell them cause they end up on e-bay as originals.

My Bobby Garrett is vinyl original and label is finished off very tidy. It is vinyl but not flexible (like a mid 60's motown issue) and the same look and shade of dark blue as the vinyl Richard Temple or Jackie Lee 45. It has small run-out groove with 65-1037 JT "vocal" C1 8 in a circle Delta59630. Flip has the similar numbers but "instrumental" written in run-out plus x after delta number, narrow run-out again. It is excactly the right shade of blue for a Mirwood, not that turquoise blue looking label like Jimmy Thomas was booted on.

My Bobby Garrett is vinyl original and label is finished off very tidy. It is vinyl but not flexible (like a mid 60's motown issue) and the same look and shade of dark blue as the vinyl Richard Temple or Jackie Lee 45. It has small run-out groove with 65-1037 JT "vocal" C1 8 in a circle Delta59630. Flip has the similar numbers but "instrumental" written in run-out plus x after delta number, narrow run-out again. It is excactly the right shade of blue for a Mirwood, not that turquoise blue looking label like Jimmy Thomas was booted on.

My copy is exactly the same as you describe. Good quality vinyl, nice well defined label, the same shade of blue as other mirwoods. Manship boot guide only mentions white DJ copy vinyl boot.

It would be good to know if this is original or not?

My Bobby Garrett is vinyl original and label is finished off very tidy. It is vinyl but not flexible (like a mid 60's motown issue) and the same look and shade of dark blue as the vinyl Richard Temple or Jackie Lee 45. It has small run-out groove with 65-1037 JT "vocal" C1 8 in a circle Delta59630. Flip has the similar numbers but "instrumental" written in run-out plus x after delta number, narrow run-out again. It is excactly the right shade of blue for a Mirwood, not that turquoise blue looking label like Jimmy Thomas was booted on.

The B Side on any Monarch has the - X after the Delta Number.

I will try to find out which Pressing Plants may have been used besides Monarch.

However, If there is a Delta Number Styrene or Vinyl It should have been pressed at Monarch.

Trouble is with the Vinyl copies, have they been tampered with.

I have a New Scanner, I will try for some scans of the Matrix.

Edited December 2, 200717 yr by 45cellar

Here are a few photos of the run out grooves from my blue ridged vinyl copy.

Hopefully this will work.

So is this a boot or not? Can anyone help - please - as I'm totally confused.

Here are a few photos of the run out grooves from my blue ridged vinyl copy.

Hopefully this will work.

So is this a boot or not? Can anyone help - please - as I'm totally confused.

That looks spot on, just the same as other release, vinyl originals on the label. I notice nobody has replied on your pictures, I would take that as a good sign!

That looks spot on, just the same as other release, vinyl originals on the label. I notice nobody has replied on your pictures, I would take that as a good sign!

I will scan the Matrix of Mine, I haven't forgotten.

Just got to find my copies, didn't put them back with my other Mirwood when I scanned the Labels a while back..

That looks spot on, just the same as other release, vinyl originals on the label. I notice nobody has replied on your pictures, I would take that as a good sign!

Cheers Stardom,

It was just the earlier post who said that all vinyl's were boots that made me start to wonder.

So i'll keep it with the originals for now.

Cheers Stardom,

It was just the earlier post who said that all vinyl's were boots that made me start to wonder.

So i'll keep it with the originals for now.

Dunno where the 'all vinyl's were boots' thing came from. Hundreds of vinyl copies originally came from Bostocks @ Bradford Market in the early 70's (via the MGM warehouse in the U.S. I believe) and none of 'em were boots!

Ian D

If your Bobby Garrett VINYL copy matrix reads:

holding 65-1037-A @ the 6 o'clock position

The matrix read anti-clockwise as follows:

65-1037-A - (@ 6 o'clock)

Jt "VOCAL" - (@ 5o'clock)

C1 - (@ 3 o'clock)

& (with a tail) - (@ 2:30 o'clock)

delta # 59636 - (@ 12:30 o'clock)

Ok, if yours is the same as that. Take it in your hands and pretend to be Rolf Harris for 5 minutes..it is unbreakable by the way you should be able to do a fine "Tiny Kangeroo down boy" impression.

MONACH never used this type of vinyl. Also the MONACH MR stamp is missing.

And I have over 50 different NORTHERN SOUL COUNTERFEITS documented made in the same vinyl from the same source in New York mostly in the same handwriting.

Just hold the damn critter and bend it.... it screams FAKE!!!

If anyone has a VINYL copy with a different matrix and it does like doing the "ROLF HARRIS" the matrix details would be most welcome. Please PM them to me

Edited December 5, 200717 yr by john manship

Off on a tangent...the Performers superb, 'I can't stop you'. Is there a vinyl bootleg as a double-sided WD?

for fear of being shot down in flames, can i add my little bit of dimwittedness in?

how do i tell the difference between vinyl and styrene? i am always being told thats vinyl, this is styrene etc but never really know how to check the difference, was once told that styrene was more brittle but dont really want to be bending my records just to find out

how do i tell the difference between vinyl and styrene? i am always being told thats vinyl, this is styrene etc but never really know how to check the difference, was once told that styrene was more brittle but dont really want to be bending my records just to find out

A rule of thumb is that:

Styrene records have their labels glued on to them and you can peel them off if you want to.

This is true for all styrene 45s except the Amy/Mala/Bell(-distributed) 45s which have their labels painted onto the wax.

Vinyl records have their labels moulded into the wax and you can't peel them off.

A rule of thumb is that:

Styrene records have their labels glued on to them and you can peel them off if you want to.

This is true for all styrene 45s except the Amy/Mala/Bell(-distributed) 45s which have their labels painted onto the wax.

Vinyl records have their labels moulded into the wax and you can't peel them off.

thanks for that, i shall do a little bit of label inspecting tonight

If your Bobby Garrett VINYL copy matrix reads:

holding 65-1037-A @ the 6 o'clock position

The matrix read anti-clockwise as follows:

65-1037-A - (@ 6 o'clock)

Jt "VOCAL" - (@ 5o'clock)

C1 - (@ 3 o'clock)

& (with a tail) - (@ 2:30 o'clock)

delta # 59636 - (@ 12:30 o'clock)

Ok, if yours is the same as that. Take it in your hands and pretend to be Rolf Harris for 5 minutes..it is unbreakable by the way you should be able to do a fine "Tiny Kangeroo down boy" impression.

MONACH never used this type of vinyl. Also the MONACH MR stamp is missing.

And I have over 50 different NORTHERN SOUL COUNTERFEITS documented made in the same vinyl from the same source in New York mostly in the same handwriting.

Just hold the damn critter and bend it.... it screams FAKE!!!

If anyone has a VINYL copy with a different matrix and it does like doing the "ROLF HARRIS" the matrix details would be most welcome. Please PM them to me

Spot on John, and the sound is low-fi too.

Off on a tangent...the Performers superb, 'I can't stop you'. Is there a vinyl bootleg as a double-sided WD?

i'll check that out for you, but i've never noticed anything "fishy" with it.

Don't think I've ever seen that before, Roger.

Strange.

Any other 'Purple' Mirwoods out there?

Sean

I have some, Jackie Lee - P-e-r-sonality, Temptation Walk

Anyone in contact with Randy Wood or has he curled his toes up?

Denis

Spot on John, and the sound is low-fi too.

Well there is something wrong here, as the copy I have is vinyl and has the same markings as John Manship mentions, but this copy is NOT flexible. I nearly broke it bending it slightly. The sound is loud and clear, comparable to all other Mirwoods I have. It looks like the pictures Dezzie Boy put on of his copy. Could there be vinyl original and a vinyl bootleg copy with the same markings? Put on to deceive! I have a styrene copy as well, so am not wishing boots to be originals, but discriptions don't match!

Well there is something wrong here, as the copy I have is vinyl and has the same markings as John Manship mentions, but this copy is NOT flexible. I nearly broke it bending it slightly. The sound is loud and clear, comparable to all other Mirwoods I have. It looks like the pictures Dezzie Boy put on of his copy. Could there be vinyl original and a vinyl bootleg copy with the same markings? Put on to deceive! I have a styrene copy as well, so am not wishing boots to be originals, but discriptions don't match!

The label details on my copy (which has the markings exactly as John Manship describes) are not as bright as the print which Dezzie Boy put up, his look almost white (bright silver) whilst mine are a dull silver and do not stand out like Dezzie's does. Also, mine is definitely low-fi.........

so, you could be right Stardom my old son!

Well there is something wrong here, as the copy I have is vinyl and has the same markings as John Manship mentions, but this copy is NOT flexible. I nearly broke it bending it slightly. The sound is loud and clear, comparable to all other Mirwoods I have. It looks like the pictures Dezzie Boy put on of his copy. Could there be vinyl original and a vinyl bootleg copy with the same markings? Put on to deceive! I have a styrene copy as well, so am not wishing boots to be originals, but discriptions don't match!

Mine corresponds with everything John says above apart from the Rolf Harris bit. I'm not disputing what John says but is it possible the bootlegger pressed some using a different vinyl? As my copy is very ridged and the sound quality is good.

I've tried Rolfing it hard but my vinyl copy is the same as yours Stardom. My granny's more flexible than this record.

Sorry for this next anorak bit but someone might find this interesting.

Comparing it to my vinyl Sheppards Stubborn Heart demo, I would say my Bobby Garrett boot is more ridged, less flexible and thicker. On a set of fairly accurate digital scales the Sheppards weighs 32.4 grams while my Bobby Garrett boot weighs 36.6 grams.

I also have a very good hifi setup which is not very tolerant to poor quality pressings and this one sounds pretty good ie clear and not muffled with reasonable dynamic range.

Luckily this record only cost me a few pounds.

Des

Edited December 8, 200717 yr by Dezzie Boy

Dezzie,

This particually bootlegger was very accurate and careful to match-up his matrix copying.

All the matrix numbers and letters are the same as the original styrene copy but with different handwriting and spacing. That proves nothing..

but what does prove the COUNTERFEIT as a counterfeit. Is the forger did C1 in the place of the ROUND MR MANARCH stamp. Because the MR stamp stamp on the styrene original is faintly stamped in and resembles half a circle and a tiny mark on the original, it obviuosly looked like C1 to him so that what he replicated.

If he had not tried to copy the MR stamp we could still be debating original or not.

He did exaxctly the same error with Eddie Parker on ASHFORD just copied it to close.

John

Edited December 8, 200717 yr by john manship

If he had not tried to copy the MR stamp we could still be debating original or not.

He did exaxctly the same error with Eddie Parker on ASHFORD just copied it to close.

John

Thanks John, makes a lot of sense.

Anyone got a styrene original for sale? If so PM me

D

Dezzie,

This particually bootlegger was very accurate and careful to match-up his matrix copying.

All the matrix numbers and letters are the same as the original styrene copy but with different handwriting and spacing. That proves nothing..

but what does prove the COUNTERFEIT as a counterfeit. Is the forger did C1 in the place of the ROUND MR MANARCH stamp. Because the MR stamp stamp on the styrene original is faintly stamped in and resembles half a circle and a tiny mark on the original, it obviuosly looked like C1 to him so that what he replicated.

If he had not tried to copy the MR stamp we could still be debating original or not.

He did exaxctly the same error with Eddie Parker on ASHFORD just copied it to close.

John

John i think you also forgot to mention another important thing about Bobby Garrett ie the sound quality is shite

John i think you also forgot to mention another important thing about Bobby Garrett ie the sound quality is shite

smudge,

i've never played it.. but will do now..thanks john

Any other 'Purple' Mirwoods out there?

Here's mine:

John i think you also forgot to mention another important thing about Bobby Garrett ie the sound quality is shite

Somebody else saying the sound quality is bad on the vinyl! Dezzie Boy's copy and my copy are normal loud and clear sound quaility, and I am using Sure cartridge and stylus. Reading back through all the discriptions and even though the markings are the same, its like two different records are being discribed.