John Benson

I think the exercise was purely to establish if you could tell by just looking at the A side - as in a photo / scan where you didn't have the record physically to have a listen to it. (Because Sheffsoul asked) So to sum up, it looks like you can't tell just from one label, other than if it's a 'push out' middle - if it is then don't look any further as it's not going to be the instrumental anyway. A. You need to see both labels just to see if it's Cyril Shane music on both sides... if it is and has a large middle, then it's a case of listening to it (If possible), looking at the grooves on the off chance you can tell if they are a lot wider spaced apart than a 3 minute plus record would be. B. If you're just going by label scans of both sides (without having hold of the record) and they are of a large middle record with Cyril Shane Music on both sides - that's as far as you can go other than asking the seller to play it and tell you (which you probably wouldn't want to do) - or just buy it and hope like hell !!! But be prepared for the worst!

I thought so, for a minute - then decided he means that there are some vocal copies around that are 'Cyril Shane Music' on both sides.... BUT have a solid middle. The instrumental needs to have 'Cyril Shane Music' on both sides and also be a large middle (Not one that's been pressed out either) Is this correct Mick?

I've just hunted my 'solid middle' copy out and can confirm it's the three pronged variety. Plus on the A side it's Pedro Music and the flip side is Cyril Shane Music. Yes, I noticed your scans too - the holes in the middle look a little wavy - I wondered if it was your way of watermarking them!

Read posts 32 & 33 - the answer is there... I think

So I was on the right track with the 'Cyril Shane Music' bit Mick? You need it on Both Sides along with a large middle as well.... I won't go looking for my vocal copy then as that's deffo a solid middle one. I got rid of my dinked one years ago - but it wasn't the instrumental either! Cheers for clearing it up a bit more!

Well, I've had a look and now I'm not too sure... There was a discussion on Facebook recently about this and a scan was put up of the 'instrumental' copy: Shortly followed by one of the 'vocal': Then it was noticed that the 'instrumental' copy had no production and arranger info writing below the '2013 029 A' release number, whereas the vocal version did have. I've since noticed that the 'instrumental' copy credits it to Cyril Shane Music on the left of the label, just above the date and the vocal credits it to Pedro Music. (The production info being below the date) But now I've tried 'Googling' various images to try and confirm this theory, I'm getting both types showing up and one of them - the 'instrumental' on Pat Brady's site currently for sale. No mention of it being anything other than the vocal copy! So - unless the scan he used is one he got from the internet and not the actual record, maybe this theory isn't strictly true? Not to say that all the instrumental copies look like the first scan all the same, it's just looking like some vocal copies look like it as well! Anyone with definite info about the layout of the instrumental label might want to answer which layout theirs is though.

Actually.... It's "Knock on my door" Good luck Dolly, it shouldn't be hard to find a copy!

I've a feeling there are some subtle differences. I'll have a look on the PC later, I have some scans of them. Unless someone does it first!

No Gareth, no markings like you describe, other than the 77-104 and SS 108 there is the number 320 and some small squiggle after that - but it doesn't really look like you say - unless you maybe read it under a magnifying glass?

This is the first time I've been aware of two different yellow copies, but I'm not convinced either are boots. Below is a scan I found of the 'Three Cheers' 45 But, I have a yellow copy, that I got back in around 1977 / 78, shortly after the red & orange 77 copies showed up. That is a 'Cape Ann Music' release also, which makes it a bit early to suggest it was booted at that time when the red & orange copies were available. I noticed that the red & orange copies also state 'Three cheers' on them, whereas the Impel copy is 'Active Music' Maybe it's just a case of different pressing plants with slightly different publishing info? It's not uncommon for this kind of thing to happen.

As far as I am aware it was first out on the 1988 US CBS CD "From a whisper to a scream" as a previously unreleased track. (Which does contain "Home is where the hatred is" - I think that's what Mike was thinking of?) Although, there does appear to be a CD on Discogs released in Holland which is dated 1987, but I can't imagine that being correct, plus they don't show any images which would confirm that. The Soul Brother Anthology release, which was not until 2003, but was probably the first time the track appeared on vinyl. Some 15 years after the CD was released...

Here's the Pye 45 of the LP's title track, possibly the only single release for this song?

Not much still known about her by the looks of it, that Ace BGP CD from 5 years back doesn't have much either. https://acerecords.co.uk/the-complete-studio-recordings-1968-72

Wasn't this also broadcast a while back? I listened to it last night, but it sounded familiar - as though I'd already heard it. I know some of Mick's shows are repeats, so it is possible.

There's no mistaking any of them from the originals is there!

I noticed that as well - no longer available, suggesting someone actually bought it?

Bri, I know it says in Andy's post (no 3) as to which is the first and second issue. But couldn't you have included that in your comments over there as well? All you put is 'first issue label images added' - Nothing to say which is which.... Apart from when you hover the mouse pointer over it and it states who uploaded it, but not everyone looking at it will be using a mouse these days, mobile devices and touch screen tablets etc. So may not be able to see that information. Just a suggestion...

I got one from him for the normal $4.99 price via eBay - Buy It Now on the 4th of April, which finally turned up just over a week ago - although he didn't mark it as shipped until the 15th. Not a blue one though, just the regular black stuff. Advertised as "Brand new from the factory box. I should know, I own the label. Don't pay more than $10 for this in eBay" It doesn't look like he sold many there as there's nothing up for sale at the moment and he only has a very low feedback of 14 at the moment, which does suggest he gave the idea of selling on there up?

Great stuff Sean, I didn't get the first few mags, but still have all the others. It's nice to be able to re-read them after all these years and see the things I probably missed the first time around.

I know it states that it's distributed by Laurie Records, but where does Epic fit in Andy? I've not heard of this before.

Possibly - as I sort of said in post no 2, because Lo Lo was more of a local label, and Calla was more well known / distributed around the USA, therefore more likely to sell copies?

'If it's an acetate why wouldn't we believe who it is I wonder?' That's the bit I couldn't understand either Steve - I believed it sounded like her enough to search for the title and her name - Ashford and Simpson just came up in the writer credits. I hadn't actually noticed their voices, but again they also have a distinctive sound - so I'll have to go have another listen now to check it out

Right, I've just had a listen to it on Mixcloud - it's only 10 minutes in anyway. He said it's an unissued Cameo Parkway acetate from 1966 and maybe recorded in the UK but definately a US artist. Firstly, it's not the song done by The Jackson 5 which has the same title, but completely different lyrics. I had to play the song a few times as I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but the singer was very familiar (to me). Eventually it came to me! .... I'm putting my money on it being Jo Armstead So, a quick bit of googling turned up this: THROUGH THICK AND THIN Writer: Josephine Armstead, Nickolas Ashford, Valerie Simpson Publisher: Careers BMG Music Publishing/Warner-Tamerlane Publishing Co./Renleigh Music, Inc. https://songwritershalloffame.org/index.php/songs/detailed/C325/P280/ I'll happily stand corrected if anyone else can come up with any other ideas, but it sounds too much like her not to be - plus she was first with Ashford & Simpson around this period, so it all adds up to it being a songwriter's acetate they did to try and sell the song.

You could always listen to the show again and see if he mentions who it was - he puts them up on Mixcloud. https://www.mixcloud.com/spurs1961/ Was it the first hour or the second hour by the way?

Yes I believe so, also both this and the one in question have credits to writers called Saunders - one Larry, the other Andre - a bit of a coincidence or what?