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Soul Source

Richie Havens On Verve Folkways

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Richie Havens: i can't make it anymore (Verve Folkways)

please PM if you have a copy of this 45 for sale!

thanks for looking!

christian

Its not on a 45 is it?

it sure is, (label as stated) :lol:

Never seen one,allways thought this was the only way to get it.

Havens-Mixed_Bag.jpg

Just seen Dave's post and learnt something new biggrin.gif

is it a different version on the LP?

no it isn't

i think the LP is a compilatiion isn't it? not in any sense an "original"

i recently sold a copy of the 7" on soul-source, interestingly that was a demo too

no it isn't

i think the LP is a compilatiion isn't it? not in any sense an "original"

i recently sold a copy of the 7" on soul-source, interestingly that was a demo too

Hi Mark

Mixed Bag isn't a compilation: it's the first RH album on Verve Forecast. There were two earlier albums on small, independent labels but Mixed Bag was his first nationally released record. There is a re-released version of Mixed Bag on MGM (to cash in on Richie's Woodstock appearance) with a slightly different cover layout. I haven't heard it but wonder if this isn't the source of the other mix of I Can't Make It Anymore. From memory the other version has less orchestration. Both used to be on refosoul.

Hi Mark

Mixed Bag isn't a compilation: it's the first RH album on Verve Forecast. There were two earlier albums on small, independent labels but Mixed Bag was his first nationally released record. There is a re-released version of Mixed Bag on MGM (to cash in on Richie's Woodstock appearance) with a slightly different cover layout. I haven't heard it but wonder if this isn't the source of the other mix of I Can't Make It Anymore. From memory the other version has less orchestration. Both used to be on refosoul.

Not a patch on Spyder Turner.

Not a patch on Spyder Turner.

DONT KNOW HOW YOU CAN POSSIBLY COMPARE THE TWO. THEY'RE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT SOUNDING RECORDS EACH BRILLIANT IN THERE OWN WAY.

BRI PINCH

SUNDAY CHILLOUT@HORSE AND GROOM, 20TH JUNE, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER

Edited by bri pinch

DONT KNOW HOW YOU CAN POSSIBLY COMPARE THE TWO. THEY'RE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT SOUNDING RECORDS EACH BRILLIANT IN THERE OWN WAY. AND AGAIN BOTH TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO GORDON LIGHTFOOTS ORIGINAL.

BRI PINCH

SUNDAY CHILLOUT@HORSE AND GROOM, 20TH JUNE, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER

Did he actualy record it ? dont think so.

No, he never got around to it... according to this forum post anyway:https://www.corfid.co...ead.php?t=14117

I also think both recordings of the song are good - in their own waythumbsup.gif

Three/four other ones aswell, fresh air, original cast, somebody williams ?, and another onesmile.gif

sorry no uk 45 rpm copy. to be honest ive only seen usa promo`s and i would like to see a scan of a stock copy.

I'm pretty sure it came out on a UK Lp, presumably Verve. Are you, or anybody else, able to confirm that or quash that belief?

sorry no uk 45 rpm copy. to be honest ive only seen usa promo`s and i would like to see a scan of a stock copy.

ONE ISSUE COPY LISTED ON POPSIKE DAVE, WENT THRU EBAY LAST YEAR :thumbsup:

WHEN THE LP WAS FIRST ISSUED IN THE USA IN JAN 1967, THERE WAS NO UK ISSUE, BUT THE LP, MIXED BAG WAS LATER ISSUED IN FEB 1968 ON UK VERVE SVLP 6008.

BRI PINCH.

Edited by bri pinch

I'm pretty sure it came out on a UK Lp, presumably Verve. Are you, or anybody else, able to confirm that or quash that belief?

I've got the LP on UK verve, the LP is the same version as the 45 on Folkways.

What you can do if you want the 'less orchestrated' version is what a badly setup p.a. that only plays one channel does...

Record the track from the LP to your PC with Audacity, then select the channel where the drums are and the strings aren't, remove the strings channel, and then make the track mono, and

bingo! you've got the non-orchestrated version...

got it here on my laptop did it years ago, sounds much better.

cheers Sutty

I've got the LP on UK verve, the LP is the same version as the 45 on Folkways.

What you can do if you want the 'less orchestrated' version is what a badly setup p.a. that only plays one channel does...

Record the track from the LP to your PC with Audacity, then select the channel where the drums are and the strings aren't, remove the strings channel, and then make the track mono, and

bingo! you've got the non-orchestrated version...

got it here on my laptop did it years ago, sounds much better.

cheers Sutty

Hah, that's interesting.

So, is the Lp track more orchestrated than the US 45 release?

Or, are you saying, if you want a more earthy / gritty version, do as you've suggested, which applies to both the Lp track and the US 45 release?

I'm pretty sure it came out on a UK Lp, presumably Verve. Are you, or anybody else, able to confirm that or quash that belief?

I have uk lp Denbo.biggrin.gif

After listening to the You Tube link somebody posted earlier, does the Lp track sound exactly the same as the US 45 release?

NOT SURE, WOULD HAVE THORT SO IF THE LP WAS IN MONO, BUT MAYBE THE LP WAS ONLY ISSUED IN STEREO FORMAT.

BRI PINCH.

SUNDAY CHILLOUT@HORSE AND GROOM, 20TH JUNE, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER.

DONT KNOW HOW YOU CAN POSSIBLY COMPARE THE TWO. THEY'RE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT SOUNDING RECORDS EACH BRILLIANT IN THERE OWN WAY.

BRI PINCH

SUNDAY CHILLOUT@HORSE AND GROOM, 20TH JUNE, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER

One's great, Ritchie Havens is f*cking awful hippy shit.

Oh and

p.s.

I reviewed this 21 years ago now in 1989 and I said it was pretty horrible back then and couldn't possibly ever be played :yes:

One's great, Ritchie Havens is f*cking awful hippy shit.

Oh and

p.s.

I reviewed this 21 years ago now in 1989 and I said it was pretty horrible back then and couldn't possibly ever be played :yes:

CHEERS, THANKS FOR POSTING PETE :D

BRI PINCH ( ONE OF TWO EYES O BLUE)

CHEERS, THANKS FOR POSTING PETE :yes:

BRI PINCH ( ONE OF TWO EYES O BLUE)

Just wanted to see how long it'd take you to reply :D

p.s. Ritchie Havens is fine in it's own context - which is Woodstock Glastonbury. I don't think it ever makes it as a 'Northern Soul' record.

Just wanted to see how long it'd take you to reply :D

p.s. Ritchie Havens is fine in it's own context - which is Woodstock Glastonbury. I don't think it ever makes it as a 'Northern Soul' record.

STRUCK QUITE A GROOVE WITH IT PETE HERE IN GOOD OLD SOUTH YORKSHIRE, VERY POPULAR IN THE CHILLOUT, FREESTYLE ROOMS :yes:

BRI.

Hah, that's interesting.

So, is the Lp track more orchestrated than the US 45 release?

Or, are you saying, if you want a more earthy / gritty version, do as you've suggested, which applies to both the Lp track and the US 45 release?

The LP is the same recording as the 45. The LP is in strict stereo, the 45 isn't, pan the LP to one side and you get the 'non-orchestral' mix that people talk about.

Play the LP over a PA where it only outputs one channel and it sounds like it's non-orchestrated, or make your own non-orchestrated version at home

cheers Sutty

p.s. I would upload it but if I go to Refosoul to upload it says I am not authorised to view the page and the site doesn't allow any other form of music transfer up here :/

Edited by Sutty

Greetings,

As Sutty says UK LP is Stereo panned, US 45 is same recording yet sounds slightly grittier (even with strings) due to the mastering on 45 rpm format.

Never come across a UK 45 but you never know.

US 45 on Verve Folkways is a little harder to come by due to it being demo to flip side of "Morning, Morning", regular flip was "I've Gotta Go".

Personal favourite, great alternative version (even with strings) - always gets a reaction.

and can I be third in line for a clean m- copy of US 45 if anyone has one for sale, let us know

regards

palang

F£££$$% OFF mr Smith :thumbup:

The 7" is pretty hard to come by it seems... Loved this track since i first heard it played at the Ritz mid 90s and so have most others i have played it to over the years....

Got my copy off a bloke who like Mr Smith thought it was shite :thumbsup: ..

Its a win win... Whats shite to them is heaven to me....

It fits in really well to a nice thought out set....

All this no a patch on Spyder bollocks... :thumbup: , you should always put IMO because thats all it is....

ps.. Love both versions, don't have to compare really, both so nice in different ways...

I am a big Richie Havens fan too, mabe thats why it means so much to me... :hatsoff2:

Anyway.. Back to the question, as anyone got a copy for sale??

The LP is the same recording as the 45. The LP is in strict stereo, the 45 isn't, pan the LP to one side and you get the 'non-orchestral' mix that people talk about.

Play the LP over a PA where it only outputs one channel and it sounds like it's non-orchestrated, or make your own non-orchestrated version at home

cheers Sutty

p.s. I would upload it but if I go to Refosoul to upload it says I am not authorised to view the page and the site doesn't allow any other form of music transfer up here :/

Thanks for clearing this up Mr S.

I think both the Spyder and Richie versions are great records in their own right and for me at least it's never a case of either / or as both take very different approaches to the same great song.

I think in general terms it's only really fair to compare records on a like-for-like basis: i.e. if there are two or more different vocals over the same backing track, or if that instrumental track is provided by the same band or arranger.

F£££$$% OFF mr Smith :hatsoff2:

The 7" is pretty hard to come by it seems... Loved this track since i first heard it played at the Ritz mid 90s and so have most others i have played it to over the years....

Got my copy off a bloke who like Mr Smith thought it was shite :laugh: ..

Its a win win... Whats shite to them is heaven to me....

'En hell' Steve, did I not get that one for you for your Birthday 2004/05 a few years back?? sure OI got it from Mr Dyson for you, I have always liked it, got it on two albums and the 7"

Richie Havens: i can't make it anymore (Verve Folkways)

please PM if you have a copy of this 45 for sale!

thanks for looking!

christian

What year was this record released, as there is a suggestion / rumour that it got played at the Twisted Wheel. Perhaps not at the Allnighter but during the week.

Anybody else heard this suggestion / rumour?

What year was this record released, as there is a suggestion / rumour that it got played at the Twisted Wheel. Perhaps not at the Allnighter but during the week.

Anybody else heard this suggestion / rumour?

Its featured on Woodstock, so that swhat 69??.. A different folky version but the same song... All on youtube.... I love the laid back folky version too, now that is some real hippy shite Pete :hatsoff2::thumbsup: .. But i love it....

you did indeed Chris... Yes indeed.. Did you not tell me that You got it for me via a person who thought the same of it as Pete :thumbup: ...

My 40th Birthday present Chris.. And a better one i could not have hoped for :thumbup:

Its featured on Woodstock, so that swhat 69??.. A different folky version but the same song... All on youtube.... I love the laid back folky version too, now that is some real hippy shite Pete laugh.gifyes.gif .. But i love it....

you did indeed Chris... Yes indeed.. Did you not tell me that You got it for me via a person who thought the same of it as Pete yes.gif ...

My 40th Birthday present Chris.. And a better one i could not have hoped for hatsoff2.gif

1969 eh? So that means the suggestion / rumour it was played at the Twisted Wheel could be true. What with the Wheel only closing down early 1971.

NOT 1969.......... ITS 1966 ON THE 45 AND CAME OUT BEFORE SPYDER TURNER thumbsup.gif

DAVE

Even better. So it probably DID get played at the Twisted Wheel.

My old pal Phil Saxe used to DJ there for a short spell, during the week too, not so much the Nighters, so he might be able to shed some light on this rumour.

Regarding the release date of this 45, I'm not certain - but if this site is accurate:

https://www.jazzdisco...hy-1966/#660707

Then the recordings were done in July 1966 in NYC

It also states that there were two release numbers for "Morning morning":

Richie Havens (g, vo) and others NYC, July 7, 1966

100810 I Can't Make It Anymore Verve-Forecast KF 5022, FT 3006

100811 Morning, Morning Verve-Forecast KF 5022, KF 5039, FT 3006

* Richie Havens - Mixed Bag (Verve-Forecast FT 3006)

* Richie Havens - I Can't Make It Anymore c/w Morning, Morning (Verve-Forecast KF 5022)

* Richie Havens - Morning, Morning c/w I've Gotta Go (Verve-Forecast KF 5039 )

I've also just checked my 'records' and found that I've actually got a copy of 5039 - and what's more... it's also a demo!yes.gif

This of course makes Palang's post (#32) not quite correct as there are actually 2 separate 45 releases with "Morning Morning" on.

Here's a scan of "I've gotta go", which was the side I bought it for in the first place.

post-5094-1276198685577_thumb.jpg

But I still have yet to confirm the actual release date of the 45!

Just had another browse on that site and noted "I gotta go" as recorded on March 1st 1967 - still can't see any release dates for the 45s though...

post-5094-1276198685577_thumb.jpg

Edited by John Benson

Regarding the release date of this 45, I'm not certain - but if this site is accurate:

https://www.jazzdisco...hy-1966/#660707

Then the recordings were done in July 1966 in NYC

It also states that there were two release numbers for "Morning morning":

Richie Havens (g, vo) and others NYC, July 7, 1966

100810 I Can't Make It Anymore Verve-Forecast KF 5022, FT 3006

100811 Morning, Morning Verve-Forecast KF 5022, KF 5039, FT 3006

* Richie Havens - Mixed Bag (Verve-Forecast FT 3006)

* Richie Havens - I Can't Make It Anymore c/w Morning, Morning (Verve-Forecast KF 5022)

* Richie Havens - Morning, Morning c/w I've Gotta Go (Verve-Forecast KF 5039 )

I've also just checked my 'records' and found that I've actually got a copy of 5039 - and what's more... it's also a demo!yes.gif

This of course makes Palang's post (#32) not quite correct as there are actually 2 separate 45 releases with "Morning Morning" on.

Here's a scan of "I've gotta go", which was the side I bought it for in the first place.

post-5094-1276198685577_thumb.jpg

But I still have yet to confirm the actual release date of the 45!

Just had another browse on that site and noted "I gotta go" as recorded on March 1st 1967 - still can't see any release dates for the 45s though...

how i usually date the mgm stuff john. look at the catalogue number on the above item and just below it theres another number. this is the main number for all mgm/verve and related label releases . get your chart books out and you can pretty much pinpoint release dates from that if you havent got a date stamp on the 45:thumbsup: i make it sept/oct 1966 spyders is jan 1967

dave

how i usually date the mgm stuff john. look at the catalogue number on the above item and just below it theres another number. this is the main number for all mgm/verve and related label releases . get your chart books out and you can pretty much pinpoint release dates from that if you havent got a date stamp on the 45:thumbsup: i make it sept/oct 1966 spyders is jan 1967

dave

DAVE - IT SOUNDS A BIT LIKE ASTROLOGY (CHECKING THE CHARTS & SIGNS) yes.gif

YOU COULD BE THE 'RUSSELL GRANT' OF THE SOUL WORLD laugh.gif

PETE

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