Rare record collecting will probably still be around for a long time to come, but the way we access our collections will undoubtably change.

As record players, styli, cartridges and general physical format equipment becomes extinct and/or impossible to maintain, people will be forced to digitise their collections in order to preserve them and listen to their music conveniently.

By this point everyone will have their own personal 'cloud' lockers which only they can access with their personal codes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

The convenience factor means that everybody will be able to access their entire collections, anytime, anywhere in the world without the physical bother of having to actually lug around physical records.

Punitive insurance costs will make moving physical records around unfeasable anyway, so most really valuable physical collections will be kept in specialised archive storage facilities or dedicated museums. Because records can only get rarer, the actual playing of the physical records will be frowned upon, since every time you play a record it degrades in quality and theoretically will decline in value.

So the end result will be that no one will actually carry physical records anymore. Instead, they'll simply log-in to their personal cloud locker and select the records they want to hear or play, probably with scans of the original label and a provenance certificate confirming that they own the original.

Naturally most of us will be pushing daisies by that point and thus won't be around to witness all this, but how do we see

the DJ's and collectors of the future?

Will the need for the physical artefact still be there? Will there be a growth area in professonal hackers trying to access your personal cloud codes? If you decide to sell a rare record, will you also have to delete the digital version and sign a transfer of ownship document?

Jesus, I'm getting a headache just thinking about all this LOL......

Any views anyone?

Ian D

Have you been taking Ketamine ?

sorry Ian............... just the cloud locker stuff like.

sounds well trippy

Edited July 23, 201113 yr by dancecrasher

In my view there will always be a need for people to own the physical or original article not matter what the technology. Vinyl will still be around and books too, despite the advent of Kindle and other such tech, and maybe even newspapers. All considered threatened and outmoded formats.

Look at that Jane Austin manuscript that sold for nearly a million pounds earlier this month. Why? People want to own things that are authentic and unique and connect them with the artist. Even thesedays most of us could simply hook up an ipod or laptop at a venue, it's easier, quicker and has access to a greater range of sounds than a box of vinyl, but why don't we? At the end of the day we don't choose to do the most convenient or time saving thing, we do what gives us most pleasure.

Plus in fifty years time (when i'm 95) i'll probably be more concerned about who will be wiping my a*se than whether I have a collection of vinyl.

Edited July 23, 201113 yr by Matt Male

I Pod dj´s already exist !! this has already taken away the need to carry vinyl around with you , but isnt it part and parcel & fun of the scene ? having to carry your records to a night is all part of the fun , especially when there are usually afterpartys where people spin tunes and look through eachothers boxes etc , if that was taken away then i think it would be a bit boring really ! yes records will only get rarer , but theres always new ones being found etc so i think in 50 years time the scene will still be going strong , cant get my head round the cloud lockers idea , this sounds more like well be living in the sky ? and sounds more like 1000 years time rather than 50 lol

Have you been taking Ketamine ?

sorry Ian............... just the cloud locker stuff like.

sounds well trippy

Nope, I'm trying to keep my use of horse tranquilizers to an absolute minimum these days.

But I love the idea of this cloud thing. I've gotta spend the next few hours figuring out how to transfer all my music from one laptop to another which isn't my idea of fun, so the thought of having my collection instantly available anytime, anywhere is very appealing to me.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've been in conversations asking people if they've heard a tune etc, etc. Now with the cloud thing, I'll soon be able to instantly play whatever record I want to anyone within seconds. Can't come quick enough for me!

I could have used it a dozen times last night alone LOL......

Ian D

Plus in fifty years time (when i'm 95) i'll probably be more concerned about who will be wiping my a*se than whether I have a collection of vinyl.

In fifty years time, they'll have created a system which doesn't require any more arse wiping Matt. This whole shitting/toilet paper stuff is positively prehistoric. I can't wait for the future.........

Ian D

i bet you wont need a lot of money to be a top name dj in 50 years time i will be 71 then and probably carrying a bag between me legs than a box of records

but at the moment I think the situation for many could be like this.........

I'm with Matt, the desire to own a tangible item will always be the nirvana for any collector.

In my view there will always be a need for people to own the physical or original article not matter what the technology. Vinyl will still be around and books too, despite the advent of Kindle and other such tech, and maybe even newspapers. All considered threatened and outmoded formats.

No change then Paul.

i bet you wont need a lot of money to be a top name dj in 50 years time i will be 71 then and probably carrying a bag between me legs than a box of records

I've lost count of the amount of times I've been in conversations asking people if they've heard a tune etc, etc. Now with the cloud thing, I'll soon be able to instantly play whatever record I want to anyone within seconds. Can't come quick enough for me!

I could have used it a dozen times last night alone LOL......

Ian D

Why can't you do this already?

Adam Topping does this all the time, whips out his iphone and plays tracks to people at venues, usually with an eye to selling...

Nothing wrong at all with playing tracks off iphones, laptops etc... it must be essential kit for dealers thesedays, put all your stock on an ipod or iphone, couldn't be easier if you're a dealer or even just want to share tracks.

I don't own a phone that can carry so much data but if I did I would whip it and and show people... instead of always saying 'you know such and such... er it goes... mmm... nevermind'.

50 years time....I reckon I'll be up in the clouds by then (or down below ).....if not I'll be almost 95 and I can't see me worrying about playing a track to someone at an all-nighter

In 50 years time technology like elp will be cheap as chips ..... also in 1967 people will have said things in a simelar way about collecting & playing records. So, looking at where we are now, I am sure things will more or less be the same! The good thing is, the szene will be a little smaller therefore more ultra rare records from non djs will hit the decks in mint minus!!!

So can I have first dibs at your collection Ian? :yes:

Ever hopeful

Blake

Why can't you do this already?

Adam Topping does this all the time, whips out his iphone and plays tracks to people at venues, usually with an eye to selling...

Nothing wrong at all with playing tracks off iphones, laptops etc... it must be essential kit for dealers thesedays, put all your stock on an ipod or iphone, couldn't be easier if you're a dealer or even just want to share tracks.

I don't own a phone that can carry so much data but if I did I would whip it and and show people... instead of always saying 'you know such and such... er it goes... mmm... nevermind'.

You can but you're governed by the amount of tracks you have to physically download to your i-pod/mobile etc and the limitations of storage on a particular piece of equipment.

Whereas, if you put your entire collection on the cloud, you can access everything without soaking up memory on your portable device. It just means that you can access everything instead of just the stuff you carry around.

Ian D

So can I have first dibs at your collection Ian? :yes:

Ever hopeful

Blake

My collection constantly mutates Blake. I'm not an owner but merely a custodian for a period of time until the ever-rotating stuff on my shelves gets passed on to even bigger freaks!

Ian D

Rare record collecting will probably still be around for a long time to come, but the way we access our collections will undoubtably change.

As record players, styli, cartridges and general physical format equipment becomes extinct and/or impossible to maintain, people will be forced to digitise their collections in order to preserve them and listen to their music conveniently.

By this point everyone will have their own personal 'cloud' lockers which only they can access with their personal codes.

https://en.wikipedia....Cloud_computing

The convenience factor means that everybody will be able to access their entire collections, anytime, anywhere in the world without the physical bother of having to actually lug around physical records.

Punitive insurance costs will make moving physical records around unfeasable anyway, so most really valuable physical collections will be kept in specialised archive storage facilities or dedicated museums. Because records can only get rarer, the actual playing of the physical records will be frowned upon, since every time you play a record it degrades in quality and theoretically will decline in value.

So the end result will be that no one will actually carry physical records anymore. Instead, they'll simply log-in to their personal cloud locker and select the records they want to hear or play, probably with scans of the original label and a provenance certificate confirming that they own the original.

Naturally most of us will be pushing daisies by that point and thus won't be around to witness all this, but how do we see

the DJ's and collectors of the future?

Will the need for the physical artefact still be there? Will there be a growth area in professonal hackers trying to access your personal cloud codes? If you decide to sell a rare record, will you also have to delete the digital version and sign a transfer of ownship document?

Jesus, I'm getting a headache just thinking about all this LOL......

Any views anyone?

Ian D

HI ALL MY ANSWER IS YES! TO THE GIST OF THIS QUESTION, The way I see it, is Black music from the United States, has been recorded right from the very start of the invention of the gramaphone, and influanced the who world in popular music culture of the mid / late 20th centry. and most if not all black influance music and styles will be keept and documented, the vinly will get more valuable based on how long the plastic lasts for so it could well be that vinyl will be worth more than gold, but like jazz , the rare soul music will be enjoyed a copied, i mean just look at the way ANY WINHOUSE is be talked about , she and what she sung was so rare soul inspired that her death will bring many new pretenders to the top? d

Rare record collecting will probably still be around for a long time to come, but the way we access our collections will undoubtably change.

As record players, styli, cartridges and general physical format equipment becomes extinct and/or impossible to maintain, people will be forced to digitise their collections in order to preserve them and listen to their music conveniently.

By this point everyone will have their own personal 'cloud' lockers which only they can access with their personal codes.

https://en.wikipedia....Cloud_computing

The convenience factor means that everybody will be able to access their entire collections, anytime, anywhere in the world without the physical bother of having to actually lug around physical records.

Punitive insurance costs will make moving physical records around unfeasable anyway, so most really valuable physical collections will be kept in specialised archive storage facilities or dedicated museums. Because records can only get rarer, the actual playing of the physical records will be frowned upon, since every time you play a record it degrades in quality and theoretically will decline in value.

So the end result will be that no one will actually carry physical records anymore. Instead, they'll simply log-in to their personal cloud locker and select the records they want to hear or play, probably with scans of the original label and a provenance certificate confirming that they own the original.

Naturally most of us will be pushing daisies by that point and thus won't be around to witness all this, but how do we see

the DJ's and collectors of the future?

Will the need for the physical artefact still be there? Will there be a growth area in professonal hackers trying to access your personal cloud codes? If you decide to sell a rare record, will you also have to delete the digital version and sign a transfer of ownship document?

Jesus, I'm getting a headache just thinking about all this LOL......

Any views anyone?

Ian D

Ian, this might interest you,

https://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/pc-help/2079513/50gb-online-storage-free?WT.rss_f=&WT.rss_a=50GB+online+storage+for+free

But I love the idea of this cloud thing. I've gotta spend the next few hours figuring out how to transfer all my music from one laptop to another which isn't my idea of fun, so the thought of having my collection instantly available anytime, anywhere is very appealing to me.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've been in conversations asking people if they've heard a tune etc, etc. Now with the cloud thing, I'll soon be able to instantly play whatever record I want to anyone within seconds. Can't come quick enough for me!

I could have used it a dozen times last night alone LOL......

Ian D

you just need a website and a ridiculous amount of time to upload all the music.....

john ridleys site is a fantastic example of achiving soul music for future generations so it is not lost.

I don't really care to get into an actual discussion about this, but I just wanted to say that records are getting more and more hip with younger people, who are buying LPs, I think sales have increased every year for the past ten years (something like doubled) and that's just counting sales that are tracked.

A few years ago I was one of the people predicting the collapse of the vinyl market and the demise of "soul music". Now my outlook has completely changed. I think what happened a few years ago was that there was a bubble with insane overinflated prices and now the market has made a correction. But NOT that the market is collapsing and going to drop more and more. Now I'm seeing a generation younger than me getting into 45 collecting and paying lots of money for records. Records that you used to be able to get but now are scarce are constantly becoming in demand. The changing of northern tastes to "funky" tracks actually made the music much more accessible to younger people and created convergence with the funk scene for example. Most major cities in the US has some sort of soul dance night where tons of hipsters come to dance to the music. And that didn't really happen say, 15 years ago.

I was worried because I thought it would be like doowop where everyone who was into it got old and the market crashed leaving nobody who cared about doowop (despite doowop collectors thinking their music is as universal as soul music collectors think their music is). But what's happening is that soul music is proving to have much more longevity where younger people are still getting into it. 50 years from now you still will be able to buy turntables.

also, all other vinyl-based genres like rap, dance, etc. have moved to mp3s and Serato but not soul music for some reason

50 years Ian? try 5 i'd say if not less, cloud storage and access is already here and will be the norm before we know it - Steve Jobs will make it the next trendy thing for his apple users and the rest will follow, it's one of their big pushes in the immediate future, win the hearts and minds of the people and they'll go along with it for the speed and convenience. Whether the rare soul vinyl scene will follow, i'd say very doubtful in the immediate future, after all you have people that still refuse to play lp only tracks off the original lp! but it's here and it's gonna happen fast IMO. Who would have dreamt the stuff of the iphone/ipad a few years back, I remember them showing the 'pinch and drag' screen on a coffee table demo on youtube before the iphone came out and it seemed like an amazing sci-fi future. It was the norm within a year.

Read this book yet? it was written 31 years ago but it's still relevant and a lot of the predictions are here and now, can be a bit dry in places though! we are living in the third wave.

cheers Sutty

Edited July 25, 201113 yr by Sutty

50 years Ian? try 5 i'd say if not less, cloud storage and access is already here and will be the norm before we know it - Steve Jobs will make it the next trendy thing for his apple users and the rest will follow, it's one of their big pushes in the immediate future, win the hearts and minds of the people and they'll go along with it for the speed and convenience. Whether the rare soul vinyl scene will follow, i'd say very doubtful in the immediate future, after all you have people that still refuse to play lp only tracks off the original lp! but it's here and it's gonna happen fast IMO. Who would have dreamt the stuff of the iphone/ipad a few years back, I remember them showing the 'pinch and drag' screen on a coffee table demo on youtube before the iphone came out and it seemed like an amazing sci-fi future. It was the norm within a year.

Read this book yet? it was written 31 years ago but it's still relevant and a lot of the predictions are here and now, can be a bit dry in places though! we are living in the third wave.

cheers Sutty

I almost altered the 50 years to 5 Sutty, but I seriously didn't want to scare anyone on here LOL. Keeping pace with the scale of change is a challenge in itself for us oldies!

And Alvin Toffler's the guy who wrote "Future Shock" isn't he? Some of those guys got it so bang on it's almost scary. Similar thing thing with Vance Packard's "The Hidden Persuaders" which was written over half a century back, yet it may as well be a textbook for phsychological marketing techniques!

As I've said many times before, physical media collecting of any type will go the same way as dry-stone walling after our generation passes on. I don't know many people that still collect 78's these days do you?

Ian D

Turntables will exist in 50 years time I guarantee it..some people just prefer/demand vinyl..I do..and preferred vinyl way before I even got into this genre

Granted it might be a little more niche..but I doubt it will ever be phased out completely

Besides..it would have no impact on anyone who collects from the 60s anyway..that's 1960s not 2060s ;)

I don't really care to get into an actual discussion about this, but I just wanted to say that records are getting more and more hip with younger people, who are buying LPs, I think sales have increased every year for the past ten years (something like doubled) and that's just counting sales that are tracked.

Not true Boba. On any measurement possible the sale of vinyl LP's fell of a cliff a long time ago. I know this 'cos was I Head Of A&R for the world's biggest vinyl re-issue company from 1998-2002 and I still keep in touch with that market. There's a healthy little niche which has thankfully plateaued now, but that's really all it is compared to all other formats. The vast majority of vinyl album re-issues sell less than 1000 units each. Naturally I watch the figures all the time 'cos if I can snag another 1000 units here and there, then I'll take 'em. The stats are somewhat skewered because the sales are so low that even any minor increase is almost always hailed as a 'vinyl revival' by the papers! I actually went on CNN in 2001 talking about the 'resurgence of vinyl' because the BPI stats showed an upswing but that was against a previously disasterous year. I'm sure there wouldn't have been so many pressing plants closing down if the sales were that healthy mate.

A few years ago I was one of the people predicting the collapse of the vinyl market and the demise of "soul music". Now my outlook has completely changed. I think what happened a few years ago was that there was a bubble with insane overinflated prices and now the market has made a correction. But NOT that the market is collapsing and going to drop more and more. Now I'm seeing a generation younger than me getting into 45 collecting and paying lots of money for records. Records that you used to be able to get but now are scarce are constantly becoming in demand. The changing of northern tastes to "funky" tracks actually made the music much more accessible to younger people and created convergence with the funk scene for example. Most major cities in the US has some sort of soul dance night where tons of hipsters come to dance to the music. And that didn't really happen say, 15 years ago.

Now, I do kind of agree with you there 'cos I'm witnessing it myself across Europe. It's not unusual to see lots of student-aged kids plundering the record and junk shops picking up 7"'s. There's a healthy interest in all types of music on 7" vinyl and that really gives the collecting ethos hope. However I also think there's an element of finding interesting stuff cheap that drives it. Sales on most 7" re-issues are circa 500 with the occasional one doing a 1000 but that's about it.

I was worried because I thought it would be like doowop where everyone who was into it got old and the market crashed leaving nobody who cared about doowop (despite doowop collectors thinking their music is as universal as soul music collectors think their music is). But what's happening is that soul music is proving to have much more longevity where younger people are still getting into it. 50 years from now you still will be able to buy turntables.

Agree for the most part. I've been to a couple of young people's parties where the format of preference is undoubtably 7" vinyl, but the music tends to career all over the place, from Pop to Soul to Beat to Reggae etc, which isn't such a bad thing. There do seem to be plenty of localised clubs in the U.S. playing Soul music which is absolutely healthy. I'm not surer what they're playing but some of the playlists I've seen, it seems to be a combination of Soul, Funk, R'n'B, Popcorn and old local releases, which is kinda encouraging.

I doubt if you'll still be able to buy new turntables in 10 years time, leave alone 50 years though.......

Ian D

i don't know many people who collect 78's either, Ian. But when i tend to bid on them on ebay, i keep getting out zapped on em

Turntables will exist in 50 years time I guarantee it..some people just prefer/demand vinyl..I do..and preferred vinyl way before I even got into this genre

Granted it might be a little more niche..but I doubt it will ever be phased out completely

Besides..it would have no impact on anyone who collects from the 60s anyway..that's 1960s not 2060s ;)

I can't see it personally Beeks. Who'd want to be running the section of a company making turntables, when it's nigh on impossible to buy new vinyl these days?

There'll undoubtably be some bespoke high-end companies catering for the niche market but that'll be it. After all, they've discontinued the Sony Walkman and that wasn't even invented till the 80's.......

https://technorati.com/technology/gadgets/article/sony-retires-the-walkman-after-31/

Ian D

i don't know many people who collect 78's either, Ian. But when i tend to bid on them on ebay, i keep getting out zapped on em

That's because people are using 'em to build houses!

https://www.vinylsidingzone.com/

Ian D

cor that's me off to build missen a 30 bedroom mansion then

bri pinch

As I've said many times before, physical media collecting of any type will go the same way as dry-stone walling after our generation passes on. I don't know many people that still collect 78's these days do you?

Not true Ian - the 78 s market is still thriving. All I know is 3 years back I purchased a large jazz collection with over 200 78s ( Did ' nt want those ) . However all sold with price ranges from 99p to £25 and quickly .. the Lp s took over a year to shift all....

In 10 years time, everyone in an event has their iphone connected to the free wifi and can vote via an app on the music being played right now. This info is stored in a cloud database with a pinpoint to the location, and an algorithm is used to relate the music being played in relation to the rest of the music that evening based on popularity, building up a global cloud-based database built over time and ever-expanding. The central reporting point of the app will be able to use another algorithm to predict the next tune in the same style that fits best for the crowd in the event and activate the music selection in the location, thus providing the maximum enjoyment for the crowd. The DJ is the crowd, and the work is done by all the crowds around the world, so all the provider of the database has to do is come up with a new algorithm for any new music style that evolves.

This of course is the stuff of fiction, but only because the device will be more advanced than an iphone, the 'database' will be a series of interlinked cloud-based personal databases that are shared amongst millions of users, and it will probably happen within 3 or 4 years.

Meanwhile, back at the local town hall, Mick's still haggling with the local record dealer over that rare Detroit acetate...

I can't see it personally Beeks. Who'd want to be running the section of a company making turntables, when it's nigh on impossible to buy new vinyl these days?

Ian D

I agree with Beeks, there are plenty of people willing to supply niche markets. Sony walkman's are an irrelevance now, who walks around their high street playing cassettes these days? . But as long as there is vinyl, there will be people willing to make turntables, albeit on a smaller scale. I can just see it on "The Apprentice" now.......

In 10 years time, everyone in an event has their iphone connected to the free wifi and can vote via an app on the music being played right now. This info is stored in a cloud database with a pinpoint to the location, and an algorithm is used to relate the music being played in relation to the rest of the music that evening based on popularity, building up a global cloud-based database built over time and ever-expanding. The central reporting point of the app will be able to use another algorithm to predict the next tune in the same style that fits best for the crowd in the event and activate the music selection in the location, thus providing the maximum enjoyment for the crowd. The DJ is the crowd, and the work is done by all the crowds around the world, so all the provider of the database has to do is come up with a new algorithm for any new music style that evolves.

This of course is the stuff of fiction, but only because the device will be more advanced than an iphone, the 'database' will be a series of interlinked cloud-based personal databases that are shared amongst millions of users, and it will probably happen within 3 or 4 years.

Meanwhile, back at the local town hall, Mick's still haggling with the local record dealer over that rare Detroit acetate...

No B*stards gonna share my database thankyou very much! I'm gonna be using eyeball encryption for a start.........

Ian D

As I've said many times before, physical media collecting of any type will go the same way as dry-stone walling after our generation passes on. I don't know many people that still collect 78's these days do you?

Not true Ian - the 78 s market is still thriving. All I know is 3 years back I purchased a large jazz collection with over 200 78s ( Did ' nt want those ) . However all sold with price ranges from 99p to £25 and quickly .. the Lp s took over a year to shift all....

Well, that's a result Glyn. I dunno about thriving though? I only know 2 people who still play 78's. One's a serious Blues collector and the other's an old boy down the road who collects 30's, 40's and 50's crooners. Can't be too many of 'em around can there.......?

Ian D

I agree with Beeks, there are plenty of people willing to supply niche markets. Sony walkman's are an irrelevance now, who walks around their high street playing cassettes these days? . But as long as there is vinyl, there will be people willing to make turntables, albeit on a smaller scale. I can just see it on "The Apprentice" now.......

Jesus! I take it all back. I just checked on 78rpm record players and there's tons of 'em......

https://www.smarterdeal.co.uk/smart/deals.jsp?ga=sfuk1&on=turntables+78+rpm

So where the hell can I get some 78's then?

Ian D

In fifty years time, they'll have created a system which doesn't require any more arse wiping Matt. This whole shitting/toilet paper stuff is positively prehistoric. I can't wait for the future.........

Ian D

Sorry Ian, but me and you ain't gonna be around in 50 years time.

I can't see anybody at 106 years old collecting records, can you?

Now where did that bog paper go?

Not true Boba. On any measurement possible the sale of vinyl LP's fell of a cliff a long time ago. I know this 'cos was I Head Of A&R for the world's biggest vinyl re-issue company from 1998-2002 and I still keep in touch with that market. There's a healthy little niche which has thankfully plateaued now, but that's really all it is compared to all other formats. The vast majority of vinyl album re-issues sell less than 1000 units each. Naturally I watch the figures all the time 'cos if I can snag another 1000 units here and there, then I'll take 'em. The stats are somewhat skewered because the sales are so low that even any minor increase is almost always hailed as a 'vinyl revival' by the papers! I actually went on CNN in 2001 talking about the 'resurgence of vinyl' because the BPI stats showed an upswing but that was against a previously disasterous year. I'm sure there wouldn't have been so many pressing plants closing down if the sales were that healthy mate.

I did not say that vinyl sales have increased since their peak in popularity. I said that they have increased steadily for the last 10 years, which is after they fell off, and obviously much less than their peak. Here is a graph I stole from another message board:

Hi All .... Ian ask yourself this in 100 years will people tead books or over 50 years ago the MINI was produced would you want a classic car/Vintage in 50 more years? whan I watch the Antiques Roadshow, they are already showing how toys from the 50s & 60s are collectable we also see how pop memorabillia has rissen in price almost evey year, and it still suprises me that is one area that the norther/rare soul scene has not realy tapped into as yet. but they will, 100 years is not long and although i will be bron bread, my records i hope will still be played, and finally i agree i think it was BEEKS who mentioned turntables and eqpt, that i no will exist, we are yet to find out the longgeverty of tape and CD DVD but there is cleare evidance they will not last the trip, however the vinyal will so the collectability will be there big time big time and i will give tou all a £10000 if I am wrong I promise DAVE

D, I thought it was only the home burnt, and not the manufactured (stamped, similar-ish to vinyl) CDs that were shown to be likely to self destruct?

And compare the vinyl market to the digital one here and you'll see how miniscule it actually is: