I was just listening to that Angie Stone track in the gallery, which has obviously just lifted the music from The O'Jays - Backstabbers.

This got me to thinking, why don't you ever seem to hear any stuff from the Philadelphia International label played out anywhere? I can only ever remember hearing one Philly track played at an event that I've attended. This was back in the mid to late 80's, at The Old Schoolhouse in Woking, I'm sure it was Love Train by The O'Jays.

Has anyone got any thoughts on the matter?

My honest answer would be any nine of the Philly singles and Thelma 112 from the other pile, if it was there. It doesn't matter how much the Thelma singles are worth, how many of them rise above being generic dross?

My honest answer would be any nine of the Philly singles and Thelma 112 from the other pile, if it was there. It doesn't matter how much the Thelma singles are worth, how many of them rise above being generic dross?

Now you really are pulling our legs

Name a Philly single better than I'm Lonely or Peace Loving Man or Sweet Lies or Love Is The Only Solution for a start.

that a lot of PIR discs have been spun in the past and that successive generations of the northern soul scene have seen a place for them. I firmly believe there should continue to be a place for them

For hard and fast soul The Brockington Singers "Stretch Out" on TSOP. For something slower Bobby Bennett "Days Go By" on PIR. They're not all pop singles, and weren't all in your local Woolies in 1975.

For hard and fast soul The Brockington Singers "Stretch Out" on TSOP. For something slower Bobby Bennett "Days Go By" on PIR. They're not all pop singles, and weren't all in your local Woolies in 1975.

Well obviously, they weren't released in the UK

'Love Train' has just come on the radio.......i couldnt help but nearly fall of my chair

'Love Train' has just come on the radio.......i couldnt help but nearly fall of my chair

What did you get up to quick to dance

Edited January 17, 200619 yr by mischief

Come on Philly Int is disco, no more, no less dont get me wrong some of it is great but has no room in a Northern room IMO, I love music was played at the WIlton near the end, we got up and left.

Join the W.O.D.D weapons of disco destruction, and free our souls of Disco

Sorry Mate - Anthony White- "Never gonna let you get away from me " is not Disco(its a great 70s uptempo soul record) -Infact would you like to define disco? :angry: :angry:

Ive just had athought- What year was disco defined?

If 1976 then all philly records before that were not disco as the same to call a record released in 69 is a 70s record if you get what I mean

HMMM!

Infact would you like to define disco? :angry: :angry:

I love music

Taken from the Philadelphia stroy website

These Jerry Butler records really set the scene for what was to come, i.e. the birth of the Philadelphia sound and the Philadelphia International record label: silk voices singing in high register, a tight rhythm section (the MFSB session musicians) and lush string arrangements. All these ingredients helped to define the soon-to-burst mid-'70s disco style.

Ive just had athought- What year was disco defined?

If 1976 then all philly records before that were not disco as the same to call a record released in 69 is a 70s record if you get what I mean

HMMM!

We used to go to discos in the early 70's and the music played there was called disco music, that includes all your old Motown and Atlantic records...

Alright, on my right I've got a pile of ten singles on Thelma, on my left I've got a pile of ten singles on Philly Int. Which one do you choose? If it's the one on the left, you are in the wrong place. The mainstream soul forum is elsewhere.

my aunty thelma says take the ones on the right but she might be a bit biased.

We used to go to discos in the early 70's and the music played there was called disco music, that includes all your old Motown and Atlantic records...

first club I went to was called "Disco 72" this would have been around 1972 I suppose

Steve Mc

Who started this arguement?

Anyway in my first post, I didn't state Northern venues. Admittedly they are the types of events I attend. Then again I see on the playlists for Ponds Forge last Friday that The O'Jays - Backstabbers was played. So by my reckoning Ponds Forge is a soul venue, or am I wrong?

I'd rather listen to I Love Music than Dean Barlows monstrosity Third Window, anyday of the week. Then again as we have all said in the past, there's no accounting for taste, whether good or bad!

Soul Music v Northern Soul = Same Meat, Different Gravy!

MY FAVOURITE PHILLY!!!!!

MY FAVOURITE PHILLY!!!!!

Always thought some of it was a little cheesey

My honest answer would be any nine of the Philly singles and Thelma 112 from the other pile, if it was there. It doesn't matter how much the Thelma singles are worth, how many of them rise above being generic dross?

I think you have given a really bad example, here, to support your argument, Gareth. Some of the Thelma singles really highhight the diffrerence between Detroit soul that makes it into the Northern category and wanabee Motown soundalikes that didn't make it in the charts. Did any Philly singers have the throaty relaxed delivery of Emanul Laskey? I'm listening to 'I'm a Peace Loving Man Man" right now. Can you name a Philly record that has such understated, almost matter-of-fact intensity? Gotta play it again!

Edited January 17, 200619 yr by Billy Freemantle

MY FAVOURITE PHILLY!!!!!

thats my chico!

Another favourite filly!!!

I will concede that some Thelma records are more than competant. A couple are fantastic, such as Peace Loving Man and Martha Starr's Love Is The Only Solution / I'm Lonely. I also really like Joe Matthews' Is It Worth It All as well, even though it may be considered generic dross in some quarters.

My answer was hasty and slightly tongue in cheek, but I stick by my basic point. Pete's proposition was highly hypothetical. Unless he's got a time machine his pile of ten free Thelma singles is fairly likely to comprise all the mediocrities on the label. The likeliehood is that ten random Philly singles would yield a better afternoon's listening, for me at least.

Another favourite filly!!!

the one on the rihgt is called thelma and the one on the left philli-pa.

MY FAVOURITE PHILLY!!!!!

Put em` back in yer` cheese box,with the rest of your 45s

Another favourite filly!!!

Bit to zooafile for me . I Prefer blondes

BEST FILLET OF ALL.

I will concede that some Thelma records are more than competant. A couple are fantastic, such as Peace Loving Man and Martha Starr's Love Is The Only Solution / I'm Lonely. I also really like Joe Matthews' Is It Worth It All as well, even though it may be considered generic dross in some quarters.

My answer was hasty and slightly tongue in cheek, but I stick by my basic point. Pete's proposition was highly hypothetical. Unless he's got a time machine his pile of ten free Thelma singles is fairly likely to comprise all the mediocrities on the label. The likeliehood is that ten random Philly singles would yield a better afternoon's listening, for me at least.

Yes, some of Thelma's product may be dross. But the point is that those that have been adopted by the rare soul scene are not - at least most of them are not. Would you not agree, too, that the good Thelma records - including the ones you have mentioned yourself - have a certain quality that lifts them out of the mainstream soul bag and is the reason why they were both commercial success yet Northern Soul smashes? Now, despite the artistry and the sometimes downright grandeur of many Philly releases, can you honestly say that they also have this special something?

Edited January 17, 200619 yr by Billy Freemantle

BEST FILLET OF ALL.

Yes,and they`re shit rare........

PeteS I love you in a reletively manly kind of way but you are so full of shit sometimes... !

The problem is with this thread is that minds have been locked up and there's no point really....

PeteS I love you in a reletively manly kind of way but you are so full of shit sometimes... !

The problem is with this thread is that minds have been locked up and there's no point really....

If Philly was disco music of the time when it was big in the charts, was Motown in the 60's when it was at its most prolific disco music of that time then?

Cheers

Paddy

If Philly was disco music of the time when it was big in the charts, was Motown in the 60's when it was at its most prolific disco music of that time then?

Cheers

Paddy

That and bad pop music alot of the time yes

If Philly was disco music of the time when it was big in the charts, was Motown in the 60's when it was at its most prolific disco music of that time then?

Cheers

Paddy

Yep, but then again you don't hear many 'Supremes', 'Rare Earth' or 'Jackson 5' tracks played at Northern dos either.

Yep, but then again you don't hear many 'Supremes', 'Rare Earth' or 'Jackson 5' tracks played at Northern dos either.

That depends what kind of 'northern' do's you attend joe

the right kind obviously

PeteS I love you in a reletively manly kind of way but you are so full of shit sometimes... !

.

I'll take that as a compliment

Come on Philly Int is disco, no more, no less dont get me wrong some of it is great but has no room in a Northern room IMO, I love music was played at the WIlton near the end, we got up and left.

Join the W.O.D.D weapons of disco destruction, and free our souls of Disco

They used to play "I love Music" at Clifton hall early 80's........Look beyond 1969 you Philistine.......

see you In Stoke....i'll be carrying a cutlass.

Must say though - Satisfaction Guaranteed by Harold Melvin and The Bluenotes is one of the greatest records ever made i.m.o. - Teddy P could belt it out somewhat....

Gotta say Baz, when i was a young un'...i didn't care for "Newies"....but with the "Passage Of Time"...i grew more fond of the 70's etc, and nowadays i find i like anything from the 60's, 70's and 80's (even current tunes)...as long as it sounds right.....don't be to blinkered mate......it may come back and carve an X on your forehead....

Take a leaf out of Pikeys book....seen the fine fellow play a couple of times recently.....mainly a solid 70's set....and very good to.

Brett

Don't listen to the Baz, do not go over to the darkside, remember a W.O.DD is for life not just for soul sam

They used to play "I love Music" at Clifton hall early 80's........Look beyond 1969 you Philistine.......

see you In Stoke....i'll be carrying a cutlass.

Well good for them playing a five year old top 10 chart record...

Well good for them playing a five year old top 10 chart record...

Yeah...Good Days......not certain they played any Childrens TV Theme tunes though.....

Yeah.....Good Days.......

Don't listen to the Baz, do not go over to the darkside, remember a W.O.DD is for life not just for soul sam

Never fear i shall not secome to there Dark and mysterious ways

No i do like all manner of soul genres Brett, but come on you must admit alot of the Philly stuff is disco

Yeah...Good Days......not certain they played any Childrens TV Theme tunes though.....

Yeah.....Good Days.......

Shame, they would have probably gone down well there

Eddie Hill - You Got The Best Of Me - Thelma, Robert Ward - Cry Me A River - Thelma, Jimmy Gilford - Nobody Loves Me Like My Baby - Thelma, Emanuel Lasky - I Got To Run For My Life - Thelma etc. etc. generic dross? I have no comment or personal opinion on Philadelphia International to be honest but if you are gonna site Thelma as generic dross, Motown sound-a-likes etc. then add Ric -Tic, Golden World, Arctic, Okeh etc. and a thousand other labels into the mix.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

McFadden & Whitehead ? Ain't No Stoppin us Now??? Ohh! Suits You Sir!!! Marvelous!! Isn't It? Mmm!!

Just read quickly through this thread and found it quite interesting. Seems like a few people want someone to kick a la fosland (not saying he didn't deserve it), but it seems that the reason some Phil. int records, not the disco ones, are not seen as acceptable, is simply that they were successful.

Like it or not, ' I Love Music' was a huge record at Northern Soul allnighters. So why isn't it NS. If Jerry Fuller 'I Get Carried Away' can be classed as Northern, why not PI output, which certainly has more relevance to black music.

And Pete, Jerry Fuller is NOT a beat ballad

I know its said above but this thread really does highlight the northern scene's obsession with rarity over quality. Who cares if some Philly releases were played in seventies youth clubs? Who cares if some of their releases were popular in the discos of the time? Does it really matter? Gamble and Huff, in my opinion at least, pulled off the rare trick of producing a sound that was commercially successful AND credibly soulful - the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

If you enjoy seventies soul and you're not hung up on rarity or any of that cobblers, then there are loads of great sounds waiting for you on the Philadelphia International label/s. Its probably best that the northern scene ignores this sound anyway, look what happened to the price of Party Time Man once it was 'discovered'.Do you really want that to happen to Bad Luck or The More I Get?!

Cheers

Steve.

In hindsight then, maybe this Philly stuff is acceptable, despite it being chart fodder and top of the pops material which 30 years ago you would have all disowned and slagged off anyone who liked it.

In context: pleasant soul music, in northern soul context, waste of good vinyl

McFadden & Whitehead ? Ain't No Stoppin us Now??? Ohh! Suits You Sir!!! Marvelous!! Isn't It? Mmm!!

Just read quickly through this thread and found it quite interesting. Seems like a few people want someone to kick a la fosland (not saying he didn't deserve it), but it seems that the reason some Phil. int records, not the disco ones, are not seen as acceptable, is simply that they were successful.

Like it or not, ' I Love Music' was a huge record at Northern Soul allnighters. So why isn't it NS. If Jerry Fuller 'I Get Carried Away' can be classed as Northern, why not PI output, which certainly has more relevance to black music.

And Pete, Jerry Fuller is NOT a beat ballad

Don't get that last comment but...it is a beat ballad

I know its said above but this thread really does highlight the northern scene's obsession with rarity over quality. Who cares if some Philly releases were played in seventies youth clubs? Who cares if some of their releases were popular in the discos of the time? Does it really matter? Gamble and Huff, in my opinion at least, pulled off the rare trick of producing a sound that was commercially successful AND credibly soulful - the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

If you enjoy seventies soul and you're not hung up on rarity or any of that cobblers, then there are loads of great sounds waiting for you on the Philadelphia International label/s. Its probably best that the northern scene ignores this sound anyway, look what happened to the price of Party Time Man once it was 'discovered'.Do you really want that to happen to Bad Luck or The More I Get?!

Cheers

Edited January 17, 200619 yr by Billy Freemantle