A record advertised as Mint came through the post the other day from the USA, a gift for the Mrs.

I paid £80 for it and knew that it was £20-40 cheaper than UK dealers, bargain I thought.

It was packaged well and arrived in great time.

I opened it and found that the 45 was indeed in great condition until i checked its level......

A sizeable warp, clearly visible before playing.

I am sure I can reduce the warp but contacted the dealer before i did anything.

I took a few pictures of the record and emailed dealer explaining it may have been an oversight but it was advertised as mint,

I was thinking at least a partial refund or something since I would have been left without the other halfs want.

Now, the dealer has been fair enough to suggest I send it back to get a full refund, marking it "refused, return to sender" (this alone gives me no trace that the record goes back to where it came, no documentation).

I wont do this as I would rather register that the record HAS been posted back to him.

He refused me a partial refund because it is not his policy, he suggests that past customers have claimed in order to get better deals.

My dilemma is this.......Do I send the record back and chance getting full refund or let the Mrs get her record on christmas day and fix it myself.

I don't wish to come on here and damage anybodys reputation, just want to know what some of you would do. The dealer has a lot of great feedback with a handful of negative regarding his grading.

As you can see from the pics....it's not that bad a warp but it certainly wasn't mentioned in the description which would have swayed my bid.

If I were you I'd repackage it and send it back by Airsure. Don't do that "return to sender" business, it'll be in the system for weeks.

Haydn.....I'd wrap it up and give your misses it on Xmas day.....she'll be delighted with it, explain to her that you could send it back for a refund if she wants.......watch her wee face when she plays it, as you said it plays perfect and looks all but mint with the warp.....I had a copy of the Debonairs on Soul Click came through that has exactly the same sort of warp...it plays perfect and is mint except for the the warp....just kept it and love it all the same.

If you are sending it back, international signed for means piece of mind mate.

Andy

A record advertised as Mint came through the post the other day from the USA, a gift for the Mrs.

I paid £80 for it and knew that it was £20-40 cheaper than UK dealers, bargain I thought.

It was packaged well and arrived in great time.

I opened it and found that the 45 was indeed in great condition until i checked its level......

A sizeable warp, clearly visible before playing.

I am sure I can reduce the warp but contacted the dealer before i did anything.

I took a few pictures of the record and emailed dealer explaining it may have been an oversight but it was advertised as mint,

I was thinking at least a partial refund or something since I would have been left without the other halfs want.

Now, the dealer has been fair enough to suggest I send it back to get a full refund, marking it "refused, return to sender" (this alone gives me no trace that the record goes back to where it came, no documentation).

I wont do this as I would rather register that the record HAS been posted back to him.

He refused me a partial refund because it is not his policy, he suggests that past customers have claimed in order to get better deals.

My dilemma is this.......Do I send the record back and chance getting full refund or let the Mrs get her record on christmas day and fix it myself.

I don't wish to come on here and damage anybodys reputation, just want to know what some of you would do. The dealer has a lot of great feedback with a handful of negative regarding his grading.

As you can see from the pics....it's not that bad a warp but it certainly wasn't mentioned in the description which would have swayed my bid.

Just asking are the warps due to storage or pressing ?

Kev

Edited December 23, 201212 yr by soulghost

File a claim if not happy with sellers response. I exhaust other avenues first though telling him you won't do as he asks and see what his response is.

What is the record mate?

Warps are part of the deal with a few records - might be worth checking out that it's not the norm with this particular 45.

Cheers

Richard

The warp is a storage warp.

The dealer has replied to me after i stated "a Paypal Claim" and that it was ridiculous not to give a partial refund for an overgraded record, where i showed the damage in pics.

He is now making an exception as he has read my excellent feedback, and has asked me what i think would be a reasonable refund.

I would have thought that him being the dealer, he should call first.

H

The warp is a storage warp.

The dealer has replied to me after i stated "a Paypal Claim" and that it was ridiculous not to give a partial refund for an overgraded record, where i showed the damage in pics.

He is now making an exception as he has read my excellent feedback, and has asked me what i think would be a reasonable refund.

I would have thought that him being the dealer, he should call first.

H

If it plays OK - I would try for a 50% discount.

But will your Mrs want it with the warp - or do you really need a full refund?

Otherwise, you could be looking again for a proper copy and still get stuck with a discounted, but warped, record that your Mrs and nobody else will pay you enough for (for instance, I would not buy a warped record).

Cheers

Richard

I understand the position of sellers not giving partial refunds -- prevents shady people from fishing for discounts.

However, you did provide actual evidence of the record. Also, the "return to sender" is totally BS, not even because of the time it takes but because it leaves you with no recourse if he denies receiving it. You need to send anything back with a tracking number if you want a guaranteed result from paypal.

If the record is very rare or very expensive I would send it to get flattened from someone who has a real flattening machine -- that type of warp should definitely flatten easily, and it would be a relatively small percentage of the total. If it were easily replaceable at that cost I would just send it back if the seller didn't want to partial refund by policy.

Finally, I'm moving this topic to "look in your box" which is record and record acquisition (e.g. ebay) specific. Thanks for posting.

Bob

Can you PM me or post the details for Mr record flattener?

Cheers

R

Edited December 24, 201212 yr by Premium Stuff

Bob

Can you PM me or post the details for Mr record flattener?

Cheers

R

I know several US record stores that have a machine that will do it for a fee. Don't know if you want to send stuff overseas, I'm sure some British or Euro stores have one. If you do want to send it to the US, I think Brad Hales (the guy selling the margaret little on ebay...) is northern soul friendly.

Note that not all warps can be fixed successfully or flattened such that it becomes playable. Storage warps are generally fixable though.

Thanks for your views guys, the dealer agreed to my 40% refund and paid it straight back.

He informed me of my refund in capital letters, i can only assume he was SHOUTING!

Mildly happier with the outcome though

Does anybody else sometimes feel you are being awkward when accosting a downgraded record?

I feel that I undergrade records for selling to save any bitching about scuff marks etc

I bought a shiny "mint" not long ago only to find it still moist from the shoe shine that it had been wiped with.

When i wiped it dry, the scuffs were apparent

H

I know several US record stores that have a machine that will do it for a fee. Don't know if you want to send stuff overseas, I'm sure some British or Euro stores have one. If you do want to send it to the US, I think Brad Hales (the guy selling the margaret little on ebay...) is northern soul friendly.

Note that not all warps can be fixed successfully or flattened such that it becomes playable. Storage warps are generally fixable though.

Thanks Bob - much appreciated

Cheers

Richard

Thanks for your views guys, the dealer agreed to my 40% refund and paid it straight back.

He informed me of my refund in capital letters, i can only assume he was SHOUTING!

Mildly happier with the outcome though

Does anybody else sometimes feel you are being awkward when accosting a downgraded record?

I feel that I undergrade records for selling to save any bitching about scuff marks etc

I bought a shiny "mint" not long ago only to find it still moist from the shoe shine that it had been wiped with.

When i wiped it dry, the scuffs were apparent

H

several shady sellers who were okay before have started polishing records.

so many sellers on ebay are shady that if i get an overgraded record and don't want to send it back i won't even message them a lot of the time because i don't want to fish for a partial refund and i don't want to be blocked because i know the next day they will have my top want for auction if they do block me. i just make a note to myself about their crappy grading and bid accordingly.

Does anybody else sometimes feel you are being awkward when accosting a downgraded record?

no. never. enough people involved with records grade on what they would like it to be to get top price rather than what the grade actually is so dont feel bad about complaining if you think its not correctly graded.

ive had people on here send me records with 40+ marks on the vinyl and claim its mint. then in the same breath claim theyve only played it 5 times so it cant have 40+ marks - how is it mint then i wonder.

and mint minus records with 10 seconds of cue burn and 3 skips. records graded as ex that are vg- and g in parts. the lsit goes on. always hold your corner and if its on ebay always send back trackable and have any notes / copnversations on a resolution claim.

even if you are a conservative grader there's always someone more conservative than you. I would always honor a return for any reason. I could see a seller not wanting to refund half the cost for a storage warp on an expensive record though.

its totally fair for a seller to decline a partial refund as long as they offer a full one on return.

problem is as a seller getting another copy of the same record back in worse condition ie a different copy than the one you sent. ive had that happen a few times over the years. people minting up at my expense.

A few points on this:

The seller was reluctant to offer a partial refund because it seems to be a flavour of the month with some people to try and claim back a percentage by saying the record was misgraded. I guess in your case with a warp it was pretty obvious.

As a seller I am reluctant to give a partial refund for this very same reason, however I do offer 100% money back if not happy for any reason.

Grading can be subjective. As a dealer I would much rather somebody pointed out they were not happy with a record rather than just put up with it and never buy from me again. At least this gives me the chance to put it right.

To stop people "minting up" at my expense I sometimes mark the label on the b-side very very slightly, you would not notice it from first glance, just a little pin prick that does not detract from the grade of the record.If they want to return the record you can easily check it is the same one I sent out.

I know Shifty at Raving mad can remover warps, I dont know if this is a service he offers, what he charges etc but it might be worth asking him.

99% of all dealers and 99% of all buyers are honest, its the 1% that spoil it for everyone else!

Chris

its totally fair for a seller to decline a partial refund as long as they offer a full one on return.

problem is as a seller getting another copy of the same record back in worse condition ie a different copy than the one you sent. ive had that happen a few times over the years. people minting up at my expense.

I've sold a few lately and I've scanned most records, sent a scan and sound file to the buyer if any doubts and kept a copy of the PM/E-mail etc....hard to argue with really.

Trouble is too many chancers on ebay, over grading etc out to rip you off, with that and ebay and paypal charges it's not hard to understand why many are deserting ebay.

A warp shouldn't be hard to spot, actually pretty impossible to miss if it goes on a turntable and no excuse for not stating it has a warp.

I think Chris's attitude toward selling is what I'd like to see prevail on this site at least and would only add that a refund should be given immediately on receipt of a faulty 45.

Sellers should stand behind the product they are offering.

JNixon's observations are also very true as I have had personal experience of that and most complaints I deal with are to do with sellers.

I do get the impression that some sellers know they are offloading "junk" and will argue the toss to avoid taking 45s back.

Buyers on here should always take advantage of leaving negative feedback facility if they are not happy and seller is unwilling to rectify.

ROD

I said this above but most sellers aren't very honest and as a buyer, a minor complaint expressed extremely politely will get me blocked, rather than get me a refund if I send it back. I usually have to get into a heated argument to get a shady seller to finally agree to take something back and then I'm guaranteed to get blocked. in my experience ON EBAY (not on here) 95% of all sellers are shady, that's the risk you take to potentially get a deal and you have to get used to dealing with shady people. I agree with everything said above about how an honest seller should act, but as a buyer, if you're dealing with someone you don't know, you probably shouldn't assume that they're honest.

Also, I don't see how an invisible dealer mark like a pin prick would help. If someone is sending something back that is a totally different record, you already know it's a different record. The buyer also knows it's a different record, so both parties know. What is the pin prick accomplishing? It won't help answer a paypal chargeback. At best, it provides a minor intimidation factor to the buyer in an argument, and this is to a buyer that had the balls to send a different record back claiming it was the same. I also don't believe that this actually happens frequently though, even though sellers like to talk about it all the time. I do believe it happens occasionally.