considering they had such a big catalogue it was a bitch to buy them as few dealers kept many in stock and you had to order them for collection at a later date .i used to hangout at a kiosk in shepherds bush market where the local black guys used to listen to the latest sounds ,but they seemed to like the calypso style records and i never heard anyone play baba brookes teenage ska otherwise i would have bought a copy .it was stuff like 'lady with the red dress on' and easy listening sounds .promotional copies i have never seen on bluebeat label .'madness' and 'housewifes choice' got plenty of play at clubs and 'shotgun wedding' and 'phoenix city' but the rarer stuff was little heard .

dont know what the situation was around the rest of the country outside london ..

ordinary record shops were unlikely to stock any Bluebeat or Island label as i recall .

I would say that there are sort-of demos of practically every single ska and reggae record issued in the UK but many are just ridiculously rare as they are plain white labels - pre releases - Blue Beat wise I've only had maybe three, but if I've had three that means there must be more. Island, I've had maybe four white labels. After that, the Trojan and Pama group issued white labels of every one of their 45's I would have thought, also many that didn't get an actual release. They sold at 7/6 each. As to availability, I know Island distributed records themselves for the first two or three years, by van.

A big distributor of bluebeat tunes back in the days outside of London was HR Taylor based in Birmingham. (My copy of Prince Busters Fabulous Greatest Hits on FAB has the address on the back).

A big distributor of bluebeat tunes back in the days outside of London was HR Taylor based in Birmingham. (My copy of Prince Busters Fabulous Greatest Hits on FAB has the address on the back).

True, they were going for years and years, maybe even into the late 80's.

Gordy did I ever tell you, I have an A4 sheet sent to me by someone who will remain nameless but got access to the archive, showing the sales figures for all of Island's 45 releases up to about WI-90? Makes fascinating reading. Biggest seller was The Maytals - Six And Seven Books. Some titles sold less than 200 copies.

Many people on here will have heard of (and some would have been to) the legendary Picton Street record shop here in Bristol.

It opened in the 50's and, until it closed (in the late 90's, I think...) had never had a sale - so every 45 they hadn't sold was still filed away in the back room(s) and could be bought by the canny punter. After 1977 the owner decided to concentrate on reggae only, and so the shop carried on as a reggae specialist until the end,

So, in the late 60's, most of the rare rock'n'roll was cleaned out, in the 70's most of the northern, and so on. I got lucky with a stack of funk 45s in the 80's, and a few reggae 45s - multiples of a few Ska Beats, mostly.

I recently met a chap who shopped there regularly in the 70s and built up complete runs of UK Coxsone, Island, Studio One, Kalypso, Rio, Doctor Bird and pretty much every other UK ska/rocksteady label - EXCEPT Blue Beats, as they, alone amongst the labels, had a 'returns' system so unsold stock could be returned for credit, rather than being left on the shelf for the next 15 years...

not surprising they sold so few as there was no way to get any airplay , only the BBC stick in the muds or Radio Luxemburg !and they were only playing popish stuff. i recall going round trying to get a copy of 'Lets Stick Together' (wilbert harrison) and they all replied 'we have it by Hayley Mills if thats any good 'HMV in Oxford street could be relied on to have plenty of back issues on London ,but they didnt stock any BlueBeat or Island stuff at the time.

Plus there were so many records being issued every week of all descriptions and genres that even a large shop couldnt handle the weekly issues .I used to comb thru the list of weekly issues to see what was worth buying ,and even if you were well tuned in to the likely good possibles it was a daunting task and the shop owner was mighty peed off if i ordered something then didnt buy it .

Roughly how many Bluebeat, Trojan and Island records were there in the 60's?

Roughly how many Bluebeat, Trojan and Island records were there in the 60's?

Blue Beat issued 403 singles before changing it's name to Fab, they issued another couple of hundred

Trojan - 3 or 400, but they controlled so many other labels which issued between 1 and 150 titles so there must be another 1000 there.

Island around 500* singles on the white then red and white label.

*(actually I think it's 460 singles)

Edited January 5, 201312 yr by Pete S

ive only found bluebeat in mass once ! All mint but the same ones repeated and not the ska 45s in the shop (birmingham) was multiple copys of that plem plem tune. As for demos only the one ghost dance

Still have a few on Bluebeat but have this one twice as i like it so much

never seen anything like this before

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laurel-Aitken-Im-Still-in-Love-With-UK-Original-1967-Columbia-Bluebeat-DB-106-/160948971237?pt=UK_Records&hash=item25794e66e5

Wake up our kid ...... there was a separate thread on those EMI releases recently (see just above the top of the 'LOOK AT YOUR BOX' forum).

In Summer 1967 (when I was a regular at the Nite Owl in Leicester every Saturday night), I would visit Walsall (there was a Nite Owl regular who lived there who I got mates with).

There was a great ska / reggae shop in the town back then (no idea of its name anymore though). I had just about 100% moved onto only buying soul by then, so I hate to think what great rare ska 45's I passed on the chance of buying.

lets get one point straight there was a time when these records were unsellable and junked ! There was no revival retro scene for them. It has allways been about new records for sound systems thats why some are rare. Some only had a limeted press and distribution

I think you're simplifying things quite a bit.

When the skinhead thing hit, there was revived interest in 60's ska / reggae 45's.

Same again in the Two Tone era and then again with Madness & UB40 fans.

Just when beat up old ska / reggae 45's went thru the roof (value wise) I'm sure others (Pete S) can identify much closer than I could .... but it was a good few years back.

im not ! But ebay has pushed up the prices and so has the european and japanese markets. I was in a sound system 76 -77 and it was only new records only big peoples dances played a few revive tunes

Wake up our kid ...... there was a separate thread on those EMI releases recently (see just above the top of the 'LOOK AT YOUR BOX' forum).

Sorry missed that one !

lets get one point straight there was a time when these records were unsellable and junked ! There was no revival retro scene for them. It has allways been about new records for sound systems thats why some are rare. Some only had a limeted press and distribution

I remember years and years ago,i used to go 'junking' for records with taffy and Mick smith,at Dalston market East London,and there were hundreds and hundreds of reggae records blue beat,dr bird etc etc,we used to tip them all out cos we were looking for soul records,most of the uk issues had the centers knocked out,i think Taffy will confirm this,he was collecting Island and Sue records.

considering they had such a big catalogue it was a bitch to buy them as few dealers kept many in stock and you had to order them for collection at a later date .i used to hangout at a kiosk in shepherds bush market where the local black guys used to listen to the latest sounds ,but they seemed to like the calypso style records and i never heard anyone play baba brookes teenage ska otherwise i would have bought a copy .it was stuff like 'lady with the red dress on' and easy listening sounds .promotional copies i have never seen on bluebeat label .'madness' and 'housewifes choice' got plenty of play at clubs and 'shotgun wedding' and 'phoenix city' but the rarer stuff was little heard .

dont know what the situation was around the rest of the country outside london ..

ordinary record shops were unlikely to stock any Bluebeat or Island label as i recall .

I remember that stall your on about,the market was a good place to pickup soulrecords as well,

What was the name of that shop across the road next to the station entrance(met line)

oh most of my youth was spent digging for tunes,remember that tiny little shop up by north kensington,near the westway

Yeah saturday mornings Toby that guy had just about every uk reggae label in abundance 10 pence each.I bought most of my Island collection there in the 70's but we left the reggae stuff,never thought it would be worth anything.We had to trawl through 1000's look for the odd Stateside,james carr-thats what i want to know usually turned up though.Sold all my Islands and other reggae stuff at Brighton record fair around 1981 for 50 pence each.What about Davids bookshp warehouse Tobe full of reggae in the early 70's....

Not too sure about demo copies because in the mid to late sixties I never recall seeing any, but as for issues Dereks records of Turnpike Lane was the place to go for me. On entering the shop it probably appeared like most other record shops of the time, with racks of albums and 45's behind the counter but there was a doorway through to a small room where the ska/reggae fans assembled. Each week all of the new releases would be played in there and the buyers would raise a finger if they wanted them. Each person in there would have their own piles stacked behind the counter. It became quite scary because you started to forget how many times you'd raised your hand. When you'd spent up you left. Heaven only knows what you'd missed!

Wake up our kid ...... there was a separate thread on those EMI releases recently (see just above the top of the 'LOOK AT YOUR BOX' forum).

In Summer 1967 (when I was a regular at the Nite Owl in Leicester every Saturday night), I would visit Walsall (there was a Nite Owl regular who lived there who I got mates with).

There was a great ska / reggae shop in the town back then (no idea of its name anymore though). I had just about 100% moved onto only buying soul by then, so I hate to think what great rare ska 45's I passed on the chance of buying.

Believe if memory serves me right the shop was in Rolling Mill Street was later turned into a pram shop. Also carried Soul City and Action records. Went past the site last summer " well you never know" long gone. Happy days. Mick Perrins.

Not too sure about demo copies because in the mid to late sixties I never recall seeing any,

There are hundreds about, honestly, but they are not demos in the sense of the description that we know them for (promotion copies for radio stations) they are white lanbel pre-releases available to sound system operators who paid a premium to have the exclusive tunes weeks before they saw an official release.

Typically they look like the pic on the link below but often have even less info on them

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-BLANK-ERIC-CLARKE-BRAND-NEW-CAR-FAB-272A-ITS-NEW-EX-/330835114035?pt=UK_Records&hash=item4d074f3833

there was also the Black Swan label from Island and few other minor labels they used.

in the late 60s soul prices crashed along with BB and ska ,there was a guy named Tobias who had a stall in Portobello road market who had demos and promo soul 45s for 20 pennies a piece and even though mates were ditching their soul record collections i was still in there buying ,but the rare 69 timi yuro was never to be seen ,so few must have sold at that time when soul was out of fashion in London.how many of those were issued ?

we know now what was good on BB and Island as we have plenty of reference but then there was no way of knowing what was great and what was rubbish as a lot of that BB was not so good .

Yes, I remember going into a record shop on the Kings Rd around 1969 / 70.

When we started asking for soul 45's, the guy behind the counter suddenly got interested in us ....

... got loads of UK Major Lance 45's he said, can't give em away.

We bought a couple each but as we were really just killing time whilst the ladies spent all our cash on clothes, we couldn't do his stock the justice that we would have liked.

About 15 years or so ago, a local DJ, Judge Dread aka Alex Hughes sadly passed away. Because he had that big hit in the early 70s, Big Six he was hot property and Trojan (?) supplied him with every Blue Beat 45, many on demo for him to peruse and re-record at his leisure. When he died, we all knew he had these records and at his funeral it was quite pathetic how the record dealers were debating what was a sufficiently respectable time lapse before moving in for the booty.

A big distributor of bluebeat tunes back in the days outside of London was HR Taylor based in Birmingham. (My copy of Prince Busters Fabulous Greatest Hits on FAB has the address on the back).

I had a copy of this LP which I won in a competition one night in a North Wales disco! Emperor Rosko was the guest DJ and I guess he must have brought some 'old stock' with him from London to give away as prizes. I lived in Wrexham in the early 60s and getting records not on 'national labels' was very difficult if not impossible, I remember waiting 5 months for a copy of Mockingbird on Sue. Hearing Ska was also very difficult until stuff like 10 Commandments started to get played in our local discos.

I had a copy of this LP which I won in a competition one night in a North Wales disco! Emperor Rosko was the guest DJ and I guess he must have brought some 'old stock' with him from London to give away as prizes. I lived in Wrexham in the early 60s and getting records not on 'national labels' was very difficult if not impossible, I remember waiting 5 months for a copy of Mockingbird on Sue. Hearing Ska was also very difficult until stuff like 10 Commandments started to get played in our local discos.

My copy of FABulous Greatest Hits came out of a record shop - Cob Records - in Wrexham in 1980. They always had a few second hand bits in, but in Chester was the fabled Tudor House, stockists of obscure soul and ska. Happy days.

About 15 years or so ago, a local DJ, Judge Dread aka Alex Hughes sadly passed away. Because he had that big hit in the early 70s, Big Six he was hot property and Trojan (?) supplied him with every Blue Beat 45, many on demo for him to peruse and re-record at his leisure. When he died, we all knew he had these records and at his funeral it was quite pathetic how the record dealers were debating what was a sufficiently respectable time lapse before moving in for the booty.

So ultimately what happened with the deceased estate assets ?

I had a copy of this LP which I won in a competition one night in a North Wales disco! Emperor Rosko was the guest DJ and I guess he must have brought some 'old stock' with him from London to give away as prizes. I lived in Wrexham in the early 60s and getting records not on 'national labels' was very difficult if not impossible, I remember waiting 5 months for a copy of Mockingbird on Sue. Hearing Ska was also very difficult until stuff like 10 Commandments started to get played in our local discos.

That LP must have sold thousands of copies, they kept it in print in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. The hardest ones seem to be the blue sleeve version.

This tale has been told many times in the past ... BUT ... heyho .....

In the late 60's / 70's when London based indie record labels (the type that put out soul / ska / reggae 45's) wanted to dump stock .....

... many times, a van filled with said 45's would head north up the M1 and the entire contents would be dropped off at St Albans tip (which I'm told was right next to where the M25 now is -- just east of the M1 / M25 junct).

By all accounts, it was quite a well known happening & guys who worked on the tip knew to rescue as many as they could & wait for a dealer to call them & arrange to buy what they had.

The son has lived in St Albans for about 12 years now but the practise was terminated many years ago (I believe).

^ is that a fact ? Or partly made up! As thats not what ive read

to read why they didnt need to do demos read BASS CULTURE by lloyd bradley @£12

but in Chester was the fabled Tudor House, stockists of obscure soul and ska. Happy days.

HaHa! Fabled indeed! I remember getting Sammy Ambrose 'Welcome to Dreamsville' on Stateside in there in the mid 80s (when it was a huuuuge sound at the 100 Club) for about three quid!

Edited January 8, 201312 yr by son of stan

actually the Kiosk in shepherds bush market was still there when i popped by a few years back but they had a nondescript selection of dub CDs ,some TREASURE ISLE ,BUT they never have the songs you are after on them .

it must have been there over 50 years in the same spot .i dont recall a record shop near the station but do recall another shop half way along the market that had a good back catalogue of London labels .

Yes, I remember going into a record shop on the Kings Rd around 1969 / 70.

When we started asking for soul 45's, the guy behind the counter suddenly got interested in us ....

... got loads of UK Major Lance 45's he said, can't give em away.

We bought a couple each but as we were really just killing time whilst the ladies spent all our cash on clothes, we couldn't do his stock the justice that we would have liked.

that might have been Tobius who had a shop at Worlds End Chelsea before he moved to North End Road Fulham ,and then ended up with a stall at Portobello Road ,as soul was hard to shift and he had a lot of it on his hands

So ultimately what happened with the deceased estate assets ?

Sorry for late response Sunnysoul. If I recall a dealer from London got them but I will check tomorrow with a pal who put an unsuccessful bid in.

OK, just got off the phone and the story is slightly different to what I recalled. Yes, Melodisc did give him a load 45s with a view to him either recording versions but also to compile LPs. These got sold while he was alive however, just before Melodisc asked for them back!

My pal who DJed with him who I just rung said that Alex was not good at looking after records and would turn up at a gig with them in a plastic carrier bag and no sleeves and so when he did pass away a) prospective dealers soon lost interest when they heard the Blue Beat stuff was long gone and b) as the remaining stuff was by all accounts wrecked, they didn't pursue things any further.

OK, just got off the phone and the story is slightly different to what I recalled. Yes, Melodisc did give him a load 45s with a view to him either recording versions but also to compile LPs. These got sold while he was alive however, just before Melodisc asked for them back!

My pal who DJed with him who I just rung said that Alex was not good at looking after records and would turn up at a gig with them in a plastic carrier bag and no sleeves and so when he did pass away a) prospective dealers soon lost interest when they heard the Blue Beat stuff was long gone and b) as the remaining stuff was by all accounts wrecked, they didn't pursue things any further.

I remember him (alex/JD) being a guest reviewer of reggae records or at least recommending 45's, in I think it was Disc or record Mirror, I remember him reviewing "Barbwire" and me going out to look for it straight away, I'd love to see those articles again...circa 1973.

I remember him (alex/JD) being a guest reviewer of reggae records or at least recommending 45's, in I think it was Disc or record Mirror, I remember him reviewing "Barbwire" and me going out to look for it straight away, I'd love to see those articles again...circa 1973.

He was by all accounts quite influential as he got some big Jamaican Sound Systems to do gigs in his hometown of Snodland, in between Rochester and Maidstone which is about the size of a postage stamp.

i seem to remember reading that dread was a bouncer at the Scene club at some stage ,but its a blur from then so i cant be sure who was on the door

I remember a Shop in Nottingham above the hand of four on goldsmith street only sold Bluebeat Blues vinyl, in fact the owner played records in the Bluebell boozer on forman street, i still have a few of those singles but my fav Lp's are tighten up volumes 1&2 and i still have them in the garage, just love Leaving Rome, Barbwire,some great tracks on these two LP's,

Regards Mal

I remember a Shop in Nottingham above the hand of four on goldsmith street only sold Bluebeat Blues vinyl, in fact the owner played records in the Bluebell boozer on forman street, i still have a few of those singles but my fav Lp's are tighten up volumes 1&2 and i still have them in the garage, just love Leaving Rome, Barbwire,some great tracks on these two LP's,

Regards Mal

Mal, Tighten Up 1 & 2 are all time classics but neither of those tracks are on them, they are both on volume 3

Mal, Tighten Up 1 & 2 are all time classics but neither of those tracks are on them, they are both on volume 3

Hi Pete

Thanks for pointing that out then i must have 3 and one other, they are in the garage i will have to dig them out.....

Had to dig em out it's 2&3 i have great tunes another track Stay a little Longer & raining in my heart one of the tracks had birds singing in the background this set of our canaries my dad kept this just cracked him up....

Mal

Edited January 17, 201312 yr by Arabica

As a young chap in the mid `60`s living in Mirfield the nearest source was about 10 miles away in Leeds. In my search for soul records I discovered this great electrical and record shop way out of the city centre in Chapeltown Road called A. R. Burns , it stocked all the latest UK soul issues and Blue Beat, Doctor Bird et al. I did`nt realise it at first but it was situated in an area where West Indian immigrants first settled when they came into the country especially from St Kitts and Nevis . I used to make the long bus trip every Saturday just to hear and buy the new releases initally costing 4/6 later rising to 6/8 thats 6 shillings and 8 pence to you young `uns the equivalent to about 34p today but a lot to a kid with about £1 a week , so two maybe 3 records was all I could afford at a time .

A school friend of mine called Ian Smith from Dewsbury Grammar School also used to vist A R Burns as well, initially to buy soul sounds but more and more to buy blue beat ska and reggae . He had a great group called Inner Mind and started to release his own stuff on his own label "Hot Lead ". I mention Dewsbury Gtrammar because another old boy from the same era is Gary Cape of Black Grape records ......there must have been something in the water or perhaps it was the great Earlsheaton Youth Club that started the scene in the area , later a commercial club the Bin Lid opened in Dewsbry about `67 I think and I saw Joe Tex there.

Worth reiterating that soul and ska/ blue beat tunes were played together at all the soul venues in the `60`s ...happy days.

Hi Pete

Thanks for pointing that out then i must have 3 and one other, they are in the garage i will have to dig them out.....

Had to dig em out it's 2&3 i have great tunes another track Stay a little Longer & raining in my heart one of the tracks had birds singing in the background this set of our canaries my dad kept this just cracked him up....

Mal

The one with the birds on is Leaving Rome by Jo Jo Bennett. Lovely instrumental

As a young chap in the mid `60`s living in Mirfield the nearest source was about 10 miles away in Leeds. In my search for soul records I discovered this great electrical and record shop way out of the city centre in Chapeltown Road called A. R. Burns , it stocked all the latest UK soul issues and Blue Beat, Doctor Bird et al. I did`nt realise it at first but it was situated in an area where West Indian immigrants first settled when they came into the country especially from St Kitts and Nevis . I used to make the long bus trip every Saturday just to hear and buy the new releases initally costing 4/6 later rising to 6/8 thats 6 shillings and 8 pence to you young `uns the equivalent to about 34p today but a lot to a kid with about £1 a week , so two maybe 3 records was all I could afford at a time .

A school friend of mine called Ian Smith from Dewsbury Grammar School also used to vist A R Burns as well, initially to buy soul sounds but more and more to buy blue beat ska and reggae . He had a great group called Inner Mind and started to release his own stuff on his own label "Hot Lead ". I mention Dewsbury Gtrammar because another old boy from the same era is Gary Cape of Black Grape records ......there must have been something in the water or perhaps it was the great Earlsheaton Youth Club that started the scene in the area , later a commercial club the Bin Lid opened in Dewsbry about `67 I think and I saw Joe Tex there.

Worth reiterating that soul and ska/ blue beat tunes were played together at all the soul venues in the `60`s ...happy days.

Ian Smith is a bit of a legend on the UK reggae scene...Hot Lead was based in Huddersfield I think

I think Ian still lives in the area and he used to record in Huddersfield at a studio owned by Mat of Matamp fame he used to play a Hammond organ and I rember him playing the organ at morning assembly as the masters all walkedin their gowns andone morning him playing "House of the Rising Sun" church style the masters had'nt a clue but we all knew ..... brilliant , a very talented guy. I believe Inner Mind also used to act as a backing band for reggae artists similar to the Mohawks ...... great times

I think Ian still lives in the area and he used to record in Huddersfield at a studio owned by Mat of Matamp fame he used to play a Hammond organ and I rember him playing the organ at morning assembly as the masters all walkedin their gowns andone morning him playing "House of the Rising Sun" church style the masters had'nt a clue but we all knew ..... brilliant , a very talented guy. I believe Inner Mind also used to act as a backing band for reggae artists similar to the Mohawks ...... great times

They did, and they also got to release a live LP under their own name on Pama - was actually pretty good, only ever seen the one copy.

The early Blue Beat recordings have been released on cd, all the 1960 & 1961 are available now and the 1962 recordings are to be released this year the first part on the 25th of Febuary, due to the copyright laws anybody can release anything 50 years old or more up until sometime this year when the law moves to 70 years so the 1963 to 67 recordings probably won't surface. Can't understand why the Blue Beat catalogue has never been released before. Can't find any info on who owns the copyright.

Can't understand why the Blue Beat catalogue has never been released before. Can't find any info on who owns the copyright.

Because they licensed music in from all manner of Jamaican labels, in the first year alone mainly Coxsone Dodd and Duke Reid so they wouldn't have been able to get those until the 50 year thing applied as the Coxsone and Treasure Isle labels and subsidiaries were still active and releasing new and mainly reissue material of their own.

blue beat had so many ja labels it would be difficult to do a complete label leagaly