Such a classic and cool record, the Bobby St James on Watts is often credited to be the first issue, but it doesn't credit the Miles Grayson arrangements unlike the Kent release. It could be a later release as well as the first one. I've never actually heard the Bobby St James to compare if it's the same take and timing (even though the 3 show different timing) as the Kent one (that I have).

 

Can anybody point what release came out first, second and third with facts/proofs and not beliefs/theories please. Thanks

 

 

Baring in mind that the Uptones had two catalogue number releases on Watts as W-901 & W-1080 and that the 'wear my ring' was previously release on Magnum;  so we can deduce that this Watts 45 is a split/later release. So the Uptones would be last in line.

Magnum leased many masters, and was a much bigger label. with multi-regional distribution.  Watts was a tiny L.A. label.  I believe that Mercedes music was owned by Hunter Hancock, and that he was one of the owners of Magnum.  Lo-Mill was likely a partnership of producer, Yancety Millsap.  It looks more likely to me that Millsap was co-owner of Watts Records, and for Magnum to pick up The Uptones' "Wear My Ring" for national distribution, Millsap and his partner had to give up the publishing rights to Hancock.  It seems, thus, that the Watts record was released first.

OK Robb, maybe the Uptones on Magnum (1963-4) is second to the Watts, but as we know smaller doesn't mean first. Especially when it comes to co-owners of the songs having their own labels and wish to extend a song's lifespan. Plus Magnum had also more than a few releases that had no other prior releases.

 

But then the Uptones 'wear my ring' B/W 'taken for a ride' on Watts W-1080 should plays another/earlier tune for the 'taken for a ride' side than on Watts W-901 ! Can anyone out there confirm that ? Because if it plays the same 'taken for a ride', thenWatts W-1080 is not a pre 1967 release !

 

Doing some more quests, I looked closer to this label version to discover it's actually another press. The press on Watts by Bobby St James shown on opening topic is from the same pressing plant as the Kent one. This one doesn't have a full address anymore like for the Uptones. The typos/fonts used on this one below are early to mid 7T's and this could suggest that the label owner was still releasing it later cashing in on some local demand or something... The devil hides in the detail; this one puts 'I've been taken for a ride' as an AA side ! Wich is really no clue as such    ! But then both sides must have had air play  .

 

 

I find the Bobby St James on Watts very attractive and I love to collect everything that is good to my ears from that iconic Kent label. Kent who did indeed lease few records from other labels. But am also weary at times of established statements claiming "first/local" mainly because of the rarer and smaller label. And then dealers pushing up the price. In this case I'm not suggesting one way or the other, I just really wonder and would like to know not just believe.

 

Magnum leased many masters, and was a much bigger label. with multi-regional distribution.  Watts was a tiny L.A. label.  I believe that Mercedes music was owned by Hunter Hancock, and that he was one of the owners of Magnum.  Lo-Mill was likely a partnership of producer, Yancety Millsap.  It looks more likely to me that Millsap was co-owner of Watts Records, and for Magnum to pick up The Uptones' "Wear My Ring" for national distribution, Millsap and his partner had to give up the publishing rights to Hancock.  It seems, thus, that the Watts record was released first.

Edited October 16, 201410 yr by tlscapital

Upon reflecting again, it seems to me that I remember seeing the black Watts issues in the mid '60s, and not seeing the yellows until later.  The font on the black issues looks like a font from the earlier mid-60s, while both the fonts on the yellows look later (one late '60s, one early '70s).  Perhaps the blacks were original pre-Magnum, and the yellows were re-issues on Millsap's own label?  Many times Small owner labels issued a record originally, before it's national lease. and then several times after the lease run, as did Fee Bee on The Dell-Vikings' "Come Go With Me", and again with "Whispering Bells".  Both BLACK Watts 901 and 1080 look older than all the fonts on the yellow issues.  I resided in LA late 1965 - early 1972. and then part-time after.  To me, the small, block font on the yellow Watts releases is the same as used by Modern and Kent from 1967-69. while the larger, thinner font on the yellow BGs, is from the early to early mid '70s.

Edited October 16, 201410 yr by RobbK

All this is semi-educated speculation, mind you.  Finding out the truth from a reliable, and well-documented source is always preferable.  But, sometimes, alas,  that possibility is gone.  In this case, that may or may not be true.  I would like to hear the true answer from an authoritative source, just as you.

We have both the Kent and the Stardom release down as 1st Dec 1967. I would say that was definite in the Kent case but not sure how we got the Stardom release date so wouldn't necessarily say that was correct.

We have both the Kent and the Stardom release down as 1st Dec 1967. I would say that was definite in the Kent case but not sure how we got the Stardom release date so wouldn't necessarily say that was correct.

 

I forgot that Stardom one wich leaves even another clue;  This one pop-up less than the other issues. Thanks Ady for thickening the mystery !

 

It doesn't give much info on the label but it has an address. It doesn't show the credits for Miles Grayson like on the Kent one but it bears the same full title 'I've been taken for a ride' like the Saints on Kent & Bobby St James on Watts instead of the Uptones on Watts where both W-901 & 1080 have just 'taken for a ride'.

 

Anybody know how does that 'wear my ring' on Watts sounds like ? Is it the same take as on Magnum (early sounding) ? Or a later cut ? Since I've understand that the 'taken for a ride' is the same and if so do sounds past early 1966 !!! If the Uptones 'wear my ring' is the same as on Magnum and 'taken for a ride' same as the Saints or Bobby St James, then the Uptones on Watts is a split and later release. And if Bobby St James was the leader singer for the Saints who were ex(s) from the Uptones, then there might be a story after the recording sessions or releases and somebody did another business with it ??? And some more...

 

They might not be related to the 'I'll let you slide' Saints on Wigwam but would be to two of them on Revue with 'mirror mirror on the wall'...

the stardom release is july 1967 according to the monarch pressing plant listings

"I've Been Taken For A Ride" was the "Teen Pick" for the week of 12/28/67 on 

St. Louis's   KATZ - 

Edited August 30, 20204 yr by The Yank

If you go by the date on this ad, it appears the Kent 45 was first and the Watts record came out about a 

year later - 

 

8 hours ago, The Yank said:

If you go by the date on this ad, it appears the Kent 45 was first and the Watts record came out about a 

year later - 

 

and the stardom issue was 4 months prior to the kent release making that the 1st and rarest release from july 1967 of this coupling..  

Edited August 31, 20204 yr by Dave Pinch

As Dave says Stardom is July 67 with Kent December 1967.

Bobby St James listed a year later December 1968.

The Uptones on Watts was first in 1965.

Edited August 31, 20204 yr by Chalky

Paid £10 for my kent label variant.  Haven't got a clue what the value is these days 

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

As Dave says Stardom is July 67 with Kent December 1967.

Bobby St James listed a year later December 1968.

The Uptones on Watts was first in 1965.

reference `ride`.. it  doesnt sound like a 1964/5 recording to my ears chalks..too polished.. more like 67. the flip does of course as that came out on magnum at that time..as `ride` uses the same catalogue number as  the yellow watts of bobby st.james i`m wonder when the black watts did actually come out and not some kind of reissue.. is there anything else on the black watts variation.. i know there`s a couple of yellows. full listing maybe. the catalogue numbers leave no clue. the magnum 45 was reissued yet again in the 80s on king and was pretty popular in doo wop circles over the years

Edited August 31, 20204 yr by Dave Pinch

1 hour ago, Winsford Soul said:

Paid £10 for my kent label variant.  Haven't got a clue what the value is these days 

sold 2 copies in the last 12 months for £75 each

One thing missing from this discussion: To my ears, the Uptones and the Bobby St. James releases of "I've Been Taken for a Ride" are identical, but the Saints on Kent is much different, with a second lead voice and a more cluttered (and not as good IMO) chorus.

1 hour ago, Weingarden said:

One thing missing from this discussion: To my ears, the Uptones and the Bobby St. James releases of "I've Been Taken for a Ride" are identical, but the Saints on Kent is much different, with a second lead voice and a more cluttered (and not as good IMO) chorus.

i think they are later releases matt

3 hours ago, Weingarden said:

One thing missing from this discussion: To my ears, the Uptones and the Bobby St. James releases of "I've Been Taken for a Ride" are identical, but the Saints on Kent is much different, with a second lead voice and a more cluttered (and not as good IMO) chorus.

Oh yes indeed it id a different take to the Saints's cut on close listening. Good for pointing that out.

I do like the Saints broader musical treatment in depth and production better. But to reach his/hers.

On 26/09/2020 at 19:23, Dave Pinch said:

i think they are later releases matt

After reading all of the above posts and evidence about this, i would think you are right about the dates of release.  Wear My Ring sounds 63/64 where as "I've Been taken For A Ride" sounds later about 1967.

It looks to me after looking at the evidence that The Saints came out first on Stardom then Kent in 1967.

Bobby St James came out a year later in 1968 on a yellow labelled Watts. 

And then when they reissued "Wear My Ring" on a black labelled Watts, they backed it with the Bobby St James track, but credited it to the Uptones, to fill the B side!

Thats how it looks to me, but untill there is evidence to date the black labelled Watts, it's not certain.

On 26/09/2020 at 17:23, Weingarden said:

One thing missing from this discussion: To my ears, the Uptones and the Bobby St. James releases of "I've Been Taken for a Ride" are identical, but the Saints on Kent is much different, with a second lead voice and a more cluttered (and not as good IMO) chorus.

yeh same backing track but the group versions has 2 lead vocals and backing singers.. whereas bobby is just bobby and backing group adding more fuel to the fact the watts 45s are all later than stardom and kent