I keep seeing sales for certain newish releases which advertise a limited press of 30/50 etc white label test pressings?  My understanding is test pressing are five or six only so surely these are a run without out any label design to speak off, not test pressings.  Just another way to exploit the market IMO.

On 26/07/2016 at 12:00, chalky said:

I keep seeing sales for certain newish releases which advertise a limited press of 30/50 etc white label test pressings?  My understanding is test pressing are five or six only so surely these are a run without out any label design to speak off, not test pressings.  Just another way to exploit the market IMO.

I don't think it's the quantity that's the issue from a collector/price perspective (although you wouldn't expect there to be too many produced). It's the fact that there really has to be something to them that makes them collectible.  I don't own any test pressings but I've always thought that they had to be viewed on a case by case basis. There isn't one hard and fast rule. Generally LPs have more potential to be of interest since there is more chance of alternative mixes etc. At the other end are the "white label" singles. maybe hand written, that may not even be real test pressings. I'm guessing it's these to which you're referring. 

In my opinion these (standard releases with white label) should sell for less, not more, than a standard issue since in effect what they really are at face value is a faulty product - albeit deliberately produced to appear more valuable. 

I queried this with a seller the other night.

 

P 

On 26/07/2016 at 12:00, chalky said:

I keep seeing sales for certain newish releases which advertise a limited press of 30/50 etc white label test pressings?  My understanding is test pressing are five or six only so surely these are a run without out any label design to speak off, not test pressings.  Just another way to exploit the market IMO.

Chalky

 Totally agree with you on this. A UK/EU test pressing is a few ( three to five copies) sent to the label to check quality before the bulk pressing.The white label was used because even if the labels had been printed it would have been too much trouble to get labels for each test press that day. There was no charge for these and no royalty or publishing due. These white label copies being sold these days would have been done after the real test pressing had been approved and no way would the pressing plant have done them for nothing. I hope any sales of these are included in the figures for fees due. I can't see why anyone would want these unless they think they are going to be worth more.

I suppose the white label trend started with the advance distribution of dance/rave tracks back in the 80s/90s. Genuine test pressings from 50's to late 70s should be very rare although Decca seemed to do quite a few on each release.

Rick

 

 

i know my label does plain white "promos" to give away which others then on sell as "tests" 

1 hour ago, Kris Holmes said:

i know my label does plain white "promos" to give away which others then on sell as "tests" 

That is the idea of promos and the right way.  I've seen examples of sales with 50 run test press and I've also seen labels advertise the same themselves.  I've also seen labels sell plain white labels for a decent mark up before the issue...again it is simply exploiting the scene IMO.  Not sure if it is an attempt to give a Johnny come lately Dj some sort of kudos?

I have US Archers test pressings of Spyder Turners 'Tell me (crying over you)'. I have quite a few. I ordered extra. The test went wrong. The 'B' side is not what you would expect. It is an expensive business writing, producing, being creative, mixing, mastering and finally releasing. The down side is nobody is interested and criticise efforts etc. Had I pressed up without checking the test pressing I would have lost £3000. I then got another batch of test pressings that were OK. I bought a story. It's part of my Detroit session story. Of course there are a few who still think they could have done a better mix than professionals at Studio A/Dearborn Heights/Detroit. On the up side, Spyder now performs the song on occasions at UK events..and it was played in Detroit at the theatre where he won his award recently. The last thing on my mind with my songs is to have an error in the vinyl production run. Like any song writer, I want my songs to be popular and ultimately finance more production work, not be under the radar so much that somebody in 20 years says they love it, when I have one foot in the grave. In fact my records were so badly marketed by me, that I have loads left and will probably not press other songs on full runs. I may do carvers as a promo hoping for vinyl play at events of 'One piece of cake'/The Delgonives (see 55motown/Soundcloud). I think the sax and vibe instrumentals have potential. If they did not have it, I might as well give up, just like some of the hundreds of song writers, groups, singers and producers over the years.

Edited August 2, 20168 yr by Carl Dixon

Yes, Archers will run you any amount of white label "tests" which you can then "promo" for free or sell as a "ltd test press", not the traditional idea of a "test press", but that's progress 

6 hours ago, Carl Dixon said:

I have US Archers test pressings of Spyder Turners 'Tell me (crying over you)'. I have quite a few. I ordered extra. The test went wrong. The 'B' side is not what you would expect. It is an expensive business writing, producing, being creative, mixing, mastering and finally releasing. The down side is nobody is interested and criticise efforts etc. Had I pressed up without checking the test pressing I would have lost £3000. I then got another batch of test pressings that were OK. I bought a story. It's part of my Detroit session story. Of course there are a few who still think they could have done a better mix than professionals at Studio A/Dearborn Heights/Detroit. On the up side, Spyder now performs the song on occasions at UK events..and it was played in Detroit at the theatre where he won his award recently. The last thing on my mind with my songs is to have an error in the vinyl production run. Like any song writer, I want my songs to be popular and ultimately finance more production work, not be under the radar so much that somebody in 20 years says they love it, when I have one foot in the grave. In fact my records were so badly marketed by me, that I have loads left and will probably not press other songs on full runs. I may do carvers as a promo hoping for vinyl play at events of 'One piece of cake'/The Delgonives (see 55motown/Soundcloud). I think the sax and vibe instrumentals have potential. If they did not have it, I might as well give up, just like the hundreds of song writers, groups, singers and producers over the years.

You don't need 50 test press's though to check the quality though. 

On 30/07/2016 at 21:40, chalky said:

That is the idea of promos and the right way.  I've seen examples of sales with 50 run test press and I've also seen labels advertise the same themselves.  I've also seen labels sell plain white labels for a decent mark up before the issue...again it is simply exploiting the scene IMO.  Not sure if it is an attempt to give a Johnny come lately Dj some sort of kudos?

Some bloke selling TPs of new stuff for £100.  Why? £20 fair enough but even that is steep for something new that cost $5.

Same guy sold me a repress as an original. It turned up still with the Juno.co.uk sticker on it with the name of the artist and track and juno's web address. When I asked where he got it from and how he knows its an original he told me its none of my fucking business. Took an age to get a refund after he refused to pick the tune up from the post office when I resent it and it got sent back to me. 

Conclusion - some people just royally take the piss. Unfortunately, some people do fall for it. It should be obvious i guess but some people just dont look at stuff enough. If you want a simple life just dont deal with these people. 

The kudos thing is true. People who arnt as enthusiastic as us and maybe buy house and play mp3s or wavs love it.

Edited August 2, 20168 yr by JNixon

Yes, indeed they could be promo's, or letting others know who may have influence to help get the song played realising that in good faith, there may be a commercial run in future of a couple of hundred or even thousand. Giving them that hard copy could help the recording/song on it's journey. I did give a few of my test pressings away. Yes, you only need a couple I guess. I have not sold any that I can remember. I vaguely remember a prominant DJ I gave one too, sold it for £10 to somebody who I offered to reimburse the £10. I don't think he even played it or thanked me. If I press carvers up, they will be gifts hoping they will be played on air and at events, if lucky. All I would ask is that the DJ give the song a chance before it goes on the shelf at home or even sold to a collector who would keep the carver as an investment. I am a song writer and dancer. Not a record collector, but respect the events who play hard copies. It works. 

But, a few moments in time for 'Tell me'. The test pressings were done:

1) after the digital release

2) before Spyder performed the song at Prestayn

3) after the UK radio digital air play

4) before any royalties were paid out

5) when I did not have much idea how to do a commercial record pressing, importing and paying customs duty on the transaction

6) after a number of people in the business offered to take my master isolated tracks and do re mixes for me after hearing the song in 2008. 

'Tell me' cost me approx £4500  (pro rata with the other songs) to record, mix, master, release digitally, press, ship and distribute.

When I do my releases I ALWAYS order test pressings, usually 5 or 10 (depending on cost). As Carl says it can be very expensive to only see any mistakes/problems after you've done the production run.

 

On the latest that I had done, the previously unreleased Shades Of Blue 45, they sent the first batch of test pressings as 12" singles!

38 minutes ago, phild said:

When I do my releases I ALWAYS order test pressings, usually 5 or 10 (depending on cost). As Carl says it can be very expensive to only see any mistakes/problems after you've done the production run.

 

On the latest that I had done, the previously unreleased Shades Of Blue 45, they sent the first batch of test pressings as 12" singles!

Blimey..12". But that becomes part of the story and adds worth to the project I guess. I always say the stories are as valuable sometimes as the physical or digital release. Trivia surrounding any release, compositions, productions etc are invaluable as a tool. For example for my Detroit releases I wanted a Detroit press and willing to import. I had a local UPS delivery man here in London who knew I was home on certain days. He used to ask whether I would take parcels in for neighbours which I did. When I decided to ship the records in from Detroit, I Used UPS because of him. Once I ordered the shipping, I told him he would probably be delivering the records to my home, so we exchanged mobile numbers.....and he did. I was at work the day they were due and he texted me with an eta to my address and I went home, took delivery and went back to work.

One or two seem to be missing the point.  I fully understand the need for test presses, quality control and all that, they are necessary.  But some dealers (recordshack for one) are issuing 50 records prior to the issue with a test press label.  Now if these are genuine test presses why the need for 50 when the norm would appear to be throughout the decades half a dozen.  These 50 are advertised as test pressing and as a Dj tool.  They are not promos, they are sold at a higher price.  Some of these test presses are stil available online bit are sold by other parties marked up again.  Surely this is just exploitation of the market? 

recently found a Barbara Mason Come to me/Sad sad girl Arctic test press anyone care to guess at a value?

Chalky, these Recordshack test pressings are just a piss take and as you say, exploitation of the market. As is offering them for up to 4 times their retail price here on SS.

50+ TP copies made of each title and available for the price of a regular issue if just shop around a bit.

The test pressings I have been involved with have been a max of ten which usually arrive at least 6 to 7 weeks prior to delivery I have never been asked if I want more or less copies I took it as the norm receiving ten no more no less

I have never sold any I give them away for others who listen to stuff for me and Paul Mooney the reason being very often when you constantly listen to a  track to see if it's OK you sometimes cant see the woods for the trees if you know what I mean and having fresh ears and opinions helps us

It has never crossed our minds to exploit test pressings and to be honest why press more if you intend to press the track anyway  will it not cost the label more???? in my opinion yes why take the chance of being out of pocket , but everyone's different

I must agree with Chalky seems to be a money making venture out to exploit

Don't often raise my head above the parapet so fire away lol

 

Cheers

 

Paul    

I think the term test pressing then has deviated away from its original intention to be the final nod before a commitment to do the run. They were never meant to be commercially available. But, who defines whether the test pressing is of value, supply and demand? It's a two way street.

 

9 hours ago, JNixon said:

Some bloke selling TPs of new stuff for £100.  Why? £20 fair enough but even that is steep for something new that cost $5.

Same guy sold me a repress as an original. It turned up still with the Juno.co.uk sticker on it with the name of the artist and track and juno's web address. When I asked where he got it from and how he knows its an original he told me its none of my fucking business. Took an age to get a refund after he refused to pick the tune up from the post office when I resent it and it got sent back to me. 

Conclusion - some people just royally take the piss. Unfortunately, some people do fall for it. It should be obvious i guess but some people just dont look at stuff enough. If you want a simple life just dont deal with these people. 

The kudos thing is true. People who arnt as enthusiastic as us and maybe buy house and play mp3s or wavs love it.

Juno actually have had some original old stock from time to time (mainly sealed LPs)

2 hours ago, Carl Dixon said:

I think the term test pressing then has deviated away from its original intention to be the final nod before a commitment to do the run. They were never meant to be commercially available. But, who defines whether the test pressing is of value, supply and demand? It's a two way street.

 

There shouldn't be a supply of test pressing Carl, at least not on a commercial basis, the same for promos.

3 hours ago, Kris Holmes said:

Juno actually have had some original old stock from time to time (mainly sealed LPs)

this was not that is was a re issue, was priced as one by them, looked like one and was not sold to me as one and was priced as an original. the guy was taking the piss. 

2 hours ago, JNixon said:

this was not that is was a re issue, was priced as one by them, looked like one and was not sold to me as one and was priced as an original. the guy was taking the piss. 

well that sucks

 

11 hours ago, Kris Holmes said:

well that sucks

 

indeed