This has just been listed on Discogs £2000🤪wowser!!

1 hour ago, jimmy clitheroe said:

This has just been listed on Discogs £2000🤪wowser!!

Been a thread before about this 45... pretty sure it' a confirmed boot..

Yes read it myself.. Discogs are supposed to be getting rid of Bootlegs etc.. especially at that eye watering Price 😱

There was a thread on here in 2009 and it was mentioned there is a dobre 45 with these 2 sides.

 

has anybody got a scan or can confirm there is one ?

Haven't heard of dobre 45... crazy beat did one legal of course... I'm sure glyn thornhill had it on here and doesn't mention dobre 45... but I stand to be corrected .. and sure that gene townsel himself confirmed the balance town 45 was a boot

7 hours ago, lfcjunkie said:

Haven't heard of dobre 45... crazy beat did one legal of course... I'm sure glyn thornhill had it on here and doesn't mention dobre 45... but I stand to be corrected .. and sure that gene townsel himself confirmed the balance town 45 was a boot

No Dobre 45 release has come to light but there have been a couple of threads on here before on the Balance Town 45 and some knowledgeable and well respected members on here have expressed some doubts over the legitimacy of that Balance Town release . And Gene may indeed have said it's a boot .

But so far there has been no definitive evidence that it is boot ... and as for Gene thinking it's a  boot,  he may well call it a  boot because he may never have got  any money out of the record's release and had no say in its release ... but even as producer/ arranger/writer, did he have the rights to the masters in the first place ? Did the release need Gene's approval ? 

From the beginning of time artists have had records released  without their knowledge, so let's not dismiss the Balance Town record so easily as being illegitimate.

Crazy Beat are selling it as a 45 on their own label. Has anyone them asked them who they dealt with when they licensed it?  That might possibly  shed a  bit more light on the issue ...

Edited December 4, 20177 yr by sunnysoul

From Gene Townsel

 

Thank you for your kind words. I did license a vinyl 45 to crazy beat records. Anything else out there is a bootleg. It's amazing how flagrantly the music is being bootlegged on the internet. I have yet to find any legal help to get paid. I still have both the analog and digital masters and I plan to re-release the music as a part of a project

51 minutes ago, wiggyflat said:

From Gene Townsel

 

Thank you for your kind words. I did license a vinyl 45 to crazy beat records. Anything else out there is a bootleg. It's amazing how flagrantly the music is being bootlegged on the internet. I have yet to find any legal help to get paid. I still have both the analog and digital masters and I plan to re-release the music as a part of a project

Excellent thanks. According to Discogs, Crazy Beat issued their release in 2005 since which time which  Gene  made those general comments about bootlegs.

But has Gene  ever specifically addressed the Balance Town 45 release which was released  in the  late 70s ... or early 80s (if you believe the cynics who are saying that the Balance Town record magically appeared purely on the back of the two  tracks' popularity on the UK modern soul scene).

And if Gene himself was responsible for the Balance Town record back then, well that surely makes it an original legit first issue.

So still no substantial evidence to suggest that the Balance Town release is a bootleg.

Edited December 4, 20177 yr by sunnysoul

I suspect the Balance Town 45 is genuine and period correct as these tracks on the LP are published by Balance Town and obviously the LP is genuine. I would have expected a bootlegger to press up a Dobre 45

Balance Town is Genes own publishing company a play on his surname.

Just checked previous eBay sales of the 45 have been from Callifornia sellers which would make sense has that is where the record would originate from.

12 minutes ago, randy said:

Balance Town is Genes own publishing company a play on his surname.

Just checked previous eBay sales of the 45 have been from Callifornia sellers which would make sense has that is where the record would originate from.

So, unless evidence is produced to the contrary, we can only presume that the Balance Town 45 is legal.

And whether Gene was responsible for the issue of the Balance Town  45 in the late 70s /early 80s  in response to interest from overseas such as Japan or the UK,  or not,  it's still a legit first issue.

As for any Dobre 45, no evidence it even exists.

His other legal 7" on Ah-La-Vi   ....   a  70s release   ...  looks to have a similar font and design as the Balance Town 7" ...

 

 

Edited December 4, 20177 yr by sunnysoul

It was the Balance Town 45 i was asking Gene about as i saw one for sale and was thinking of buying it.I bought the Crazy Beat 45 instead as he confirmed the Balance 45 as a boot 

Its reported that Gene doesn't have any copies of his own vinyl and it seems strange that there is no mention from him (that I am aware) of regarding the Ah-La-Vi 45 release.

Maybe he cant remember releasing the 45's maybe there are more releases out there?

5 hours ago, randy said:

Its reported that Gene doesn't have any copies of his own vinyl and it seems strange that there is no mention from him (that I am aware) of regarding the Ah-La-Vi 45 release.

Maybe he cant remember releasing the 45's maybe there are more releases out there?

he would probably say that was a boot too

On 12/4/2017 at 02:45, sunnysoul said:

His other legal 7" on Ah-La-Vi   ....   a  70s release   ...  looks to have a similar font and design as the Balance Town 7" ...

 

 

watch out george they`ll be saying thats a bootleg too

i`ve always heard about this album that came out in 1985 on balance town that was withdrawn or cancelled..must have been a bad experience for gene ..according to one of the popsike 45 listings both track are rumoured to be on this lp too..i think the single was cancelled also

On 12/4/2017 at 01:28, randy said:

I suspect the Balance Town 45 is genuine and period correct as these tracks on the LP are published by Balance Town and obviously the LP is genuine. I would have expected a bootlegger to press up a Dobre 45

If your bootlegging and want it to appear legit it is logical to pick on the areas / names ie Balance town, that would create credibility, that's been done for years, that alone doesn't make it a legit copy,

Also to quote sunny soul " but even as producer/ arranger/writer, did he have the rights to the masters in the first place ? Did the release need Gene's approval ?  well he licensed it to Crazy beat so we can only assume he may well have had the rights,

I can recall not to many moons ago no one knew about this single and most if not all of my collecting friends always insisted it as album only so the "cynics" who think it was brought out to meet the demand have a good argument due to the demand of the album, i know a couple of blokes who have a copy of the single and even they weren't aware until they came across a copy or at least they never ever mentioned to me in comment they were aware until it indeed became part of their collection.

Its one of those arguments that no one will ever win because frankly no one knows, judging by the comments posted above and i certainly don't .

what i do know is those who own a copy will crow on its legit (and at its discogs price traaaalaa its deffo legit LOL) and those who don't will throw spanners in and cry boot...

But whatever you all argue over.. they are great tunes either way... never owned an album nor a single but you cant deny the quality.

 

 

Geeeooooooordie

 

a copy signed by someone called gene

Looking across the net the earliest i can find of the balance town being sold on line is 2010... where were they until then... probably stuck in Genes garage

 

LOL

 

Geeeeooooordie

1 minute ago, geordiejohnson said:

Looking across the net the earliest i can find of the balance town being sold on line is 2010... where were they until then... probably stuck in Genes garage

 

LOL

 

Geeeeooooordie

probably stuck somewhere jud... made no money who wouldnt be pissed

Just now, dave pinch said:

probably stuck somewhere jud... made no money who wouldnt be pissed

the al vi la 45 never turned up til the 2000s either 

Your probably right Dave... towld gene will tek it to his  grave... anyway on my budget i'l just have to buy a crazy beat if i ever buy one...

 

Geeooooordie

I got the Balance Town 45 in the 90s, maybe 97-98 that kind of time. Never heard of the Ah-La-vi one until this decade. I don't believe a Dobre single exists, since Dobre was a label for putting out self made albums. No idea on who put the Balance Town 45 out if Gene says it wasn't him, but unless it is a very elaborate forgery Dave's signed copy would suggest that Gene did at least know about it.  

Fair few artists agrieved that they never made owt and say the releases were not legal. I remember Don Gardner saying he wasnt aware that Cheating Kind was ever released when he was shown a copy at Prestatyn, he simply sent tapes down to the owner who was a friend and he put it out without his knowledge....so he said. 

Just a few days ago on ebay ... the Gene Townsel Balance Town 7" sold by the guys at carolinasoul for $787.00 US ... in VG- minus condition ...

14 bidders all with strong feedback  ... 6 of whom were prepared to pay over $500.00 US for it ...   

70s Soul 45 - Gene Townsel - There's No Use Hiding - Balance Town - mp3  See original listing
	Winning bid:
	US $787.00   [ 21 bids ]
	Seller:
	carolinasoul (33835 )

 

Also interesting is that this sale mirrors the exact same sale price - $787.00 - and even the number of bids  - 21 -  achieved on carolinasoul's last sale of this record in September last year ... in VG condition:

70s Soul 45 - Gene Townsel - There's No Use Hiding - Balance Town - mp3

End Price:  USD  $787

Start Price: USD    6

End Date:  2017-09-10  Start Date:  2017-09-03

Number of bids: 21

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Possible observations?

• judging by the photos of both sales , they appear to be different records ... the photo of the one sold in September 2017 shows some slight label wear  whereas this weeks sale does not
• if they are  the same record , perhaps the winner of the auction in September 2017 for some reason wasn't happy and then returned the record to carolinasoul, but for this week's auction to achieve the exact same sale price and number of bids, that's an amazing co-incidence?

Not inferring any dodgy practices here on the part of carolinasoul who is a highly reputable ebay seller and doesn't (knowingly)  sell bootlegs. 

Time will tell if they have happened upon a small quantity of the record.

Either way, quite a few apparently serious bidders appear to be willing to pay good money for this record  ... surely on the basis that it is not a bootleg ...

 

Number of bids: 21 Country: USA Auctioned at:     ebay

 

Edited February 8, 20187 yr by sunnysoul

12 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

Just a few days ago on ebay ... the Gene Townsel Balance Town 7" sold by the guys at carolinasoul for $787.00 US ... in VG- minus condition ...

14 bidders all with strong feedback  ... 6 of whom were prepared to pay over $500.00 US for it ...   

70s Soul 45 - Gene Townsel - There's No Use Hiding - Balance Town - mp3  See original listing
	Winning bid:
	US $787.00   [ 21 bids ]
	Seller:
	carolinasoul (33835 )

 

Also interesting is that this sale mirrors the exact same sale price - $787.00 - and even the number of bids  - 21 -  achieved on carolinasoul's last sale of this record in September last year ... in VG condition:

70s Soul 45 - Gene Townsel - There's No Use Hiding - Balance Town - mp3

End Price:  USD  $787

Start Price: USD    6

End Date:  2017-09-10  Start Date:  2017-09-03

Number of bids: 21

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Possible observations?

• judging by the photos of both sales , they appear to be different records ... the photo of the one sold in September 2017 shows some slight label wear  whereas this weeks sale does not
• if they are  the same record , perhaps the winner of the auction in September 2017 for some reason wasn't happy and then returned the record to carolinasoul, but for this week's auction to achieve the exact same sale price and number of bids, that's an amazing co-incidence?

Not inferring any dodgy practices here on the part of carolinasoul who is a highly reputable ebay seller and doesn't (knowingly)  sell bootlegs. 

Time will tell if they have happened upon a small quantity of the record.

Either way, quite a few apparently serious bidders appear to be willing to pay good money for this record  ... surely on the basis that it is not a bootleg ...

 

Number of bids: 21 Country: USA Auctioned at:     ebay

 

would seem odd that he may have aquired a number of vg copies george..   i think thats just coincidence that he`s had a couple 5 months apart..also these guys sell on behalf of 3rd parties quite a bit in case you didnt know

They have handled multiple copies of many rare records it’s not surprising.

 

getting the same price twice is just a weird quirk.