NOTE the title of this thread is ... . . . . . Francis Nero on Shrine ? ... . . . . ON SHRINE QUESTIONMARK

INFO TAKEN FROM an excellent interview conducted by Heikki Suosalo (as with his other interviews, available on line) & subsequent discussion on Soulful Detroit  

After leaving Motown, Frances Nero made some recordings with Raynoma Gordy and Gino Parks at Shrine Records, which went unreleased. One was "Lady In Waiting", a duet with Gino Parks. Francis also cut three other songs at the time.  . . . That says AT SHRINE, however on further investigation it seems these tracks were cut for Ray & Eddie but after Shrine had gone out of business. The solo tracks Gino cut for Ray & Eddie were made in a Detroit studio it seems.

Were the master tapes for these tracks by Frances ever unearthed ? (seems they'd have been located in Detroit & not DC).

Is it known what the other three songs were ?

Edited September 29Sep 29 by Roburt

@Ady Croasdell or @Andy Rix will know more if there is anything more to know

This is an old story that keeps getting recycled ....

It has been said previously that the songs were recorded in 1968. Shrine was dead by 68 and Eddie was living in L.A.

Frances won her Motown talent contest in June 65  .. recorded 'Keep On Loving Me' on 2 Nov 65 the Soul 45 was released on 11 Mar 66  ... Shrine was slowly disintegrating through the summer of 66 and had closed down by the end of that year ... then Miss Ray and Eddie went to Detroit We know they recorded Gino Parks in Detroit and then got a release with 'Nerves Of Steel' on Crazy Horse in Sept 68  .. and it might be that they did something with Frances in Detroit after her Motown career failed to take off .... but no way would she have gone to D.C. in 66 just after getting her first 45 released ... that would have been career suicide.

So .. I don't believe there is any connection to Shrine.

I have never found any song with this title by Eddie or connected to him,

Andy

1 hour ago, Roburt said:

INFO TAKEN FROM an excellent interview conducted by Heikki Suosalo (as with his other interviews, available on line) & subsequent discussion on Soulful Detroit  

After leaving Motown, Francis Nero made some recordings with Raynoma Gordy and Gino Parks at Shrine Records, which went unreleased. One was "Lady In Waiting", a duet with Gino Parks. Francis also cut three other songs at the time. 

Were the master tapes for these tracks ever unearthed ?

Is it known what the other three songs were ?

Do you have a link to the online interview ??

16 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

Do you have a link to the online interview ??

I presume it is this one from 2010 but it doesn't mention Shrine just she recorded with Raymona from what I can see

https://www.soulexpress.net/deep110.htm#francesnero

The interview just stated she cut for Eddie & Ray, it was just assumed this was for Shrine. No one on Soulful Detroit picked up on the fact that Gino cut for the pair in Detroit in 68. As one of Frances's cuts was a duet with Gino, her cuts must have been done at the same time as his tracks that escaped on Crazy Horse. But as they were both cutting for Ray & Eddie, you can see why the Shrine connection was made.

Frances just got the one session for Motown (some folk also assumed the cuts she did with Ray & Eddie might have been for Motown) and then was left to flounder. Gino had also been dropped by Motown (much earlier) & then had been with (& then dropped) by Golden World. Of course, Gino had been around for ages, cutting in conjunction with Andre Williams (also Motown connected) as far back as 1957/58/59. The two of them also went on the road together (although getting his name correct seemed a challenge for newspaper typesetters).

... https://www.soulexpress.net/deep110.htm#francesnero

Edited September 29Sep 29 by Roburt

2 minutes ago, Roburt said:

The interview just stated she cut for Eddie & Ray, it was just assumed this was for Shrine. No one on Soulful Detroit picked up on the fact that Gino cut for the pair in Detroit in 68. As one of Francis's cuts was a duet with Gino, her cuts must have been done at the same time as his tracks that escaped on Crazy Horse. But as they were both cutting for Ray & Eddie, you can see why the Shrine connection was made.

Francis just got the one session for Motown (some folk also assumed the cuts she did with Ray & Eddie might have been for Motown) and then was left to flounder. Gino had also been dropped by Motown (much earlier) & then had been with (& then dropped) by Golden World. Of course, Gino had been around for ages, cutting in conjunction with Andre Williams (also Motown connected) as far back as 1957/58/59. The two of them also went on the road together (although getting his name correct seemed a challenge for newspaper typesetters).

... https://www.soulexpress.net/deep110.htm#francesnero

The interview doesn't mention Eddie, just Ray and no mention of Shrine.

After three years with Soul and only one single under her belt, Frances asked for a release, because she wasn’t allowed to sing in local lounges and record-wise nothing was happening, anyway.  She recorded with Raymona Gordy and Gino Parks Lady in Waiting and three other songs, but they remained in the can.  In the 70s and 80s Frances became engaged in cosmetology, fashion shows, script writing and other businesses, and she also took care of her sick mother and her son, who was involved in a car accident.

1 minute ago, Chalky said:

The interview doesn't mention Eddie, just Ray and no mention of Shrine.

As I stated in the opening post on this thread, the content of the interview was taken up on Soulful Detroit with a number of posts discussing her information & making some assumptions. Both Eddie & Ray were involved with Gino's tracks in 68 and so it was assumed both were involved with Frances & Gino's duet cut too.

Edited September 29Sep 29 by Roburt

27 minutes ago, Roburt said:

As I stated in the opening post on this thread, the content of the interview was taken up on Soulful Detroit with a number of posts discussing her information & making some assumptions. Both Eddie & Ray were involved with Gino's tracks in 68 and so it was assumed both were involved with Francis & Gino's duet cut too.

Have you a link to the Soulful Detroit topic please? I looked but couldn't find it.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?33596-Frances-Nero-amp-The-Marvelettes

It includes the following lines ... "After leaving Motown, Nero made more recordings with Raynoma Gordy and Gino Parks at Shrine Records, which went unreleased." It also says that "Lady In Waiting" was a duet with Gino Parks at Shrine Records.

I didn't realise till I read the thread that the backing track to Frances's "Keep On Loving Me" was originally laid down (in Aug 64) for the Marvelettes but that (! ? !) the group refused to record it.

Edited September 29Sep 29 by Roburt

23 minutes ago, Roburt said:

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?33596-Frances-Nero-amp-The-Marvelettes

It includes the following lines ... "After leaving Motown, Nero made more recordings with Raynoma Gordy and Gino Parks at Shrine Records, which went unreleased." It also says that "Lady In Waiting" was a duet with Gino Parks at Shrine Records.

I didn't realise till I read the thread that the backing track to Francis's "Keep On Loving Me" was originally laid down (in Aug 64) for the Marvelettes but that (! ? !) the group refused to record it.

That quote from wikipedia seems to be another assumption made up by whoever made the entry, they don't say where the quote was taken from, certainly wasn't from Heikki's interview which is the only source for thew quote out there from what I can see.

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

That quote from wikipedia seems to be another assumption made up by whoever made the entry, they don't say where the quote was taken from, certainly wasn't from Heikki's interview which is the only source for thew quote out there from what I can see.

does anyone ever bother putting right the 'dodgy' wikipedia stuff nowadays?

on a similar thing @Roburt maybe a good idea for you to edit your first post as leaving it as it is just amplifies the dodgy wikipedia claim

I agree that it would have been extremely unlikely that Frances Nero would have broken her Motown contract to go to D.C. to record with Eddie and Raynoma. And, I knew Gino was with Golden World in 1965-'66.

Does anyone know where in Detroit they'd have recorded Frances and Gino in 1967 or 1968? (United Sound, Sidra, Magic City? - And know who else would have been involved (arranger, financier, etc.) Mike Terry, Ollie McLaughlin, Pied Piper, Dave Hamilton, Don Davis? Was Crazy Horse Records a currently operating Soul music label in the late 1960s, or just a re-issue or bootleg label that released previously unissued master tapes of defunct labels or independent producers?

2 hours ago, Robbk said:

Was Crazy Horse Records a currently operating Soul music label in the late 1960s, or just a re-issue or bootleg label that released previously unissued master tapes of defunct labels or independent producers?

Crazy Horse was a completely legitimate label Capitol Records set up as a subsidiary in 1968. From the May 25th, 1968 issue of Billboard-

Edited September 29Sep 29 by The Yank

So it seems Crazy Horse licensed 'externally created' tracks for release on the label.

... # 1300 being cut @ Fame studios (a May 68 release). . . . was there a #1301 ? . . . #1302 was cut in LA by Golden Age Productions . . . #1303 (Gino's 45 - a late September 68 release) was cut in Detroit by Ray & Eddie (though Andy said Eddie was LA based by the time it was released) . . . #1304 was out of LA too ... # 1305 was masterminded by Aki Aleong. From 1967, Aleong was Capitol Records west coast R&B sales / promotions manager; so that one was almost actual Crazy Horse label's own product. This 45 was reviewed by Billboard mag on 26th October 68 .... #1306 was cut in LA (?) & was another Golden Age Productions release in Dec 68 .... #1309 was a 2nd David & the Giants 45 out of Fame (an early 69 release).

So apart from the David & the Giants 45's (cut in Muscle Shoals) & Gino's 45 (cut in Detroit it seems), all the other releases on the label had strong LA connections.

Edited September 30Sep 30 by Roburt

So back to the original topic Frances Nero never recorded for Shrine and Eddie Singleton wasn’t involved either.

I visited Detroit nine times between 1999 and 2006 and got to know Frances as a friend really well. She was great company and I’ll never forget her.

Shrine? Forget it.

“Keep On Loving Me” was recorded from a master tape in “ten minutes” which fits in with a previous post.

Frances was going to be a script writer. I still have a copy of one which she wrote.

In 2001 she was a tour guide in Detroit. I have some great photos of her and Detroit News people as we toured parts of the city.

SoulfulDetroit and the Northern Soul scene taught them a lot about their city.

Strange but true.

Im sure i was at an allnighter in morcame maybe early 90's? And sam ward,lou ragland,and frances nero all singing to a backing tape? Am i correct?

5 hours ago, Dobber said:

Im sure i was at an allnighter in morcame maybe early 90's? And sam ward,lou ragland,and frances nero all singing to a backing tape? Am i correct?

You're correct. Ian Levine had brought Frances & Sammy over to do some shows & I was running Lou Ragland's UK tour. All 3 singers came together for that night in Morecambe. Sammy was a real laugh (& a beer monster) ... I believe it was May 1990.

Sam on the dance floor @ Morecambe ...

28 minutes ago, Roburt said:

You're correct. Ian Levine had brought Frances & Sammy over to do some shows & I was running Lou Ragland's UK tour. All 3 singers came together for that night in Morecambe. Sammy was a real laugh (& a beer monster) ... I believe it was May 1990.

Sam on the dance floor @ Morecambe ...

Yeah sam had a big white cowboy hat on 😂

Thanks. I remember having seen that record several times in the past. I just listened to both sides on You Tube and both sides sound, to me, not at all like Detroit recordings. I don't hear any Detroit players, or the tell-tale acoustic sounds of the mid-to-late 1960s Detroit usual moist-used recording studios. We have no way of knowing for sure, but my best guess is that Raynoma and Gino got a production deal with Crazy Horse in 1968, and Raynoma and Gino went out To LA to join Eddie to record them. There's no real evidence that Eddie and Ray's masters were cut in Detroit as late as 1968. But, we know that Miss Ray returned to Detroit in late 1966. But, I haven't heard or read that Eddie did any recording in Detroit. I guess it's also possible that they brought Gino to DC to record him in '66, and only got the masters deal with newly-founded Crazy Horse in 1968? Maybe Eddie Joined Raynoma in Detroit in '68 and produced it. It's also possible that Eddie joined the pair in Detroit and recorded those two cuts there. But, I just don't believe that it was a Detroit production, based on the sound of Gino's 2 cuts. No way to know, unless we find some evidence.

On 28/09/2025 at 23:43, Roburt said:

So it seems Crazy Horse licensed 'externally created' tracks for release on the label.

... # 1300 being cut @ Fame studios (a May 68 release). . . . was there a #1301 ? . . . #1302 was cut in LA by Golden Age Productions . . . #1303 (Gino's 45 - a late September 68 release) was cut in Detroit by Ray & Eddie (though Andy said Eddie was LA based by the time it was released) . . . #1304 was out of LA too ... # 1305 was masterminded by Aki Aleong. From 1967, Aleong was Capitol Records west coast R&B sales / promotions manager; so that one was almost actual Crazy Horse label's own product. This 45 was reviewed by Billboard mag on 26th October 68 .... #1306 was cut in LA (?) & was another Golden Age Productions release in Dec 68 .... #1309 was a 2nd David & the Giants 45 out of Fame (an early 69 release).

So apart from the David & the Giants 45's (cut in Muscle Shoals) & Gino's 45 (cut in Detroit it seems), all the other releases on the label had strong LA connections.

Edited September 30Sep 30 by Robbk

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

Yeah sam had a big white cowboy hat on 😂

I was at Morecombe that night I went with Ray Evans from Rotherham. I remember Sam in his big white Stetson but I don’t remember Lou at all.

12 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I was at Morecombe that night I went with Ray Evans from Rotherham. I remember Sam in his big white Stetson but I don’t remember Lou at all.

Yeah i was 18 maybe 19 and i didnt care to much for live artists at that time,i certainly remember sam as youve mentioned chalky with his hat and joyful presence,i remember another chap singing(im sure it was lou) and frances nero,but it was a bit cheap and nasty singing to a tape,but i suppose if its just an allnigher your not gonna bother with a full band! Now im older im grateful to have met and seen many of the artists to which we all love there music.

13 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Yeah i was 18 maybe 19 and i didnt care to much for live artists at that time,i certainly remember sam as youve mentioned chalky with his hat and joyful presence,i remember another chap singing(im sure it was lou) and frances nero,but it was a bit cheap and nasty singing to a tape,but i suppose if its just an allnigher your not gonna bother with a full band! Now im older im grateful to have met and seen many of the artists to which we all love there music.

It was a poor night overall if memory serves. I saw Lou that year again if memory serves in Worksop.

Edited September 30Sep 30 by Chalky

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

.... but my best guess is that Raynoma and Gino got a production deal with Crazy Horse in 1968, and Raynoma and Gino went out To LA to join Eddie to record them. There's no real evidence that Eddie and Ray's masters were cut in Detroit as late as 1968. But, we know that Miss Ray returned to Detroit in late 1966. But, I haven't heard or read that Eddie did any recording in Detroit. I guess it's also possible that they brought Gino to DC to record him in '66, and only got the masters deal with newly-founded Crazy Horse in 1968?

With Crazy Horse being a new label in late May 1968, I guess they'd have put out feelers with regard to wanting to license in 'outside tracks'. It seems Eddie was around LA at that time & could easily have approached the label to let them know he had some tracks they could release. Those tracks may have been laid down recently in LA or could just have been older things he'd helped cut earlier but was still looking for a deal on. As both Eddie & Ray were involved with the two Gino tracks that Crazy Horse put out, I'd hazard a guess that the Gino & Frances duet would have been cut around the same time & in the same studio. That's just an educated guess though.

4 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It was a poor night overall if memory serves. I saw Lou that year again if memory serves in Worksop.

Yes, Lou did lots of shows on that 1990 tour. He did the Caister Weekender, Bradford niter, the 100 Club, a show in Souldrop (Beds), one in Windsor + others and the one Pete Ward promoted in Worksop. The only show that he was on with Sam & Frances was the Morecambe one (though I seem to recall Ronnie McNeir was also on @ that Caister).

Lou had told me he'd played on some tracks cut in Detroit in summer 67 but that the singers hadn't been in on the session, just the musicians. I knew the Precisions "If This Is Love" was one of the tracks he was on, so while we were setting up for the Worksop show (getting the sound balance right, etc), I got Pete Ward to put the Precisions 45 on. Lou was messing about with his mic stand at the time, but as soon as the record kicked in, he came running over shouting this is the track I played on ...

Lou & some of the crowd @ the Worksop show ...

Edited September 30Sep 30 by Roburt

How old would lou be there? He looks young,good looking chap too!

On a seperate note,sam signed my beige sister lee boot,he said he had never seen that 45 before,i said you wouldnt have seen it sam its a flippin' bootleg😂

5 minutes ago, Dobber said:

How old would lou be there? He looks young,good looking chap too!

Lou was 48 when he did the 1990 UK tour.

PHOTO >> Lou on a canal bridge in West Yorks (on route from Worksop to Morecambe). Lou had never seen a UK style canal before ...

Edited September 30Sep 30 by Roburt

This thread was really about FRANCES NERO & her tracks for Miss Ray & Eddie ...

BUT as I have the pics, here's Lou Ragland in London, being arrested for being TOO DARN SOUFUL ...

3 minutes ago, Roburt said:

This thread was really about FRANCES NERO & her tracks for Miss Ray & Eddie ...

BUT as I have the pics, here's Lou Ragland in London, being arrested for being TOO DARN SOUFUL ...

😂😂😂😂