Hi Guys and Gals

According to Manships bootleg guide- Gwen Owens-Just say your wanted- Velgo

Quote "Bootlegs STYRENE with stick-on label, original is VINYL with moulded label'

I've just got a M- Vinyl copy, but I'm still a bit sceptical, or cant believe my luck! anyone out there know of any vinyl boots?

Edited January 26, 200520 yr by Trevski

Hi Guys and Gals

According to Manships bootleg guide- Gwen Owens-Just say your wanted- Velgo

Quote "Bootlegs STYRENE with stick-on label, original is VINYL with moulded label'

I've just got a M- Vinyl copy, but I'm still a bit sceptical, or cant believe my luck! anyone out there know of any vinyl boots?

link

Apparently Trevor all original copies (not many) have some sort of skip or jump which was done in production.I bought a copy of this off a flea market around 10 years ago for 20p and listened to it many times and convinced myself it had the fault which it didnt really have.

As for vinyl boots cant help on that one.

Craig.

Apparently Trevor all original copies (not many) have some sort  of skip or jump which was done in production.I bought a copy of this off a flea market around 10 years ago for 20p and listened to it many times and convinced myself it had the fault which it didnt really have.

As for vinyl boots cant help on that one.

Craig.

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Not all original copies jump.

Edited January 27, 200520 yr by chalky

i have a vinyl boot of that tune too

I thought there were only 3 or 4 originals. I asked Gwen if she had saved any in March last year and the answer was no. She was also pissed off as she said she could do with the money.

Top sound with a great story too.

Ed

I thought there were only 3 or 4 originals. I asked Gwen if she had saved any in March last year and the answer was no. She was also pissed off as she said she could do with the money.

Top sound with a great story too.

Ed

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But didn`t she sell about max 10 copies while her last stay in GB ?!

Dunno about the jump, as the copy is on its way here, so I haven't played it yet! The guy says he has had it for the last 23 years or so, and it has a pressing fault, so I presume he means a jump! I can't remember seeing any vinyl boots, only styrene, altho' wendy says she has a vinyl boot.

i have a vinyl boot of that tune too

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Anyone else remember these?

I thought there were only 3 or 4 originals. I asked Gwen if she had saved any in March last year and the answer was no. She was also pissed off as she said she could do with the money.

Top sound with a great story too.

Ed

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She lied, she sold her copies to Rob Thomas!

Dunno about the jump, as the copy is on its way here, so I haven't played it yet! The guy says he has had it for the last 23 years or so, and it has a pressing fault, so I presume he means a jump! I can't remember seeing any vinyl boots, only styrene, altho' wendy says she has a vinyl boot.

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Was this the copy that was on eBay? If so thought the description was a bit ambiguous, just said that 'most originals had pressing faults' or something along those lines... assumed it was the boot/2nd pressing/ whatever it is so didn't bid and will kick myself hard if it turns out not to be

If not ignore me lol

Rachel

Was this the copy that was on eBay? If so thought the description was a bit ambiguous, just said that 'most originals had pressing faults' or something along those lines... assumed it was the boot/2nd pressing/ whatever it is so didn't bid and will kick myself hard if it turns out not to be   

If not ignore me lol

Rachel

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Yes it was! At first I wrote it of too, but somehow the scan just looked too shiney for styrene so I mailed him and he replied that it was DEFINATLY vinyl! after that I just had to go for it! Still think it has to be too good to be true, but I can't wait 'till it arrives!

From that original pressing (late 1976) done at Monarch, I am 99.9% certain that there are none on vinyl, every one is styrene...I've also never seen a later press on vinyl. But obviously, when you get it you'll be able to date it from the delta number and the original probably never had one in the first place

The delta number scratched in the styrene boot run out groove is #102402.

how do i tell the difference between styrene & vinyl?

i assumed i had a vinyl copy....will check it out tonight

ta

I hold mine up to the light. if you cant see the light its vinyl. if the run out groove goes a reddy brown, its styrene.

there are a lot more complicated ways, but as a rule of thumb, it works OK for me.

thank you

how do i tell the difference between styrene & vinyl?

i assumed i had a vinyl copy....will check it out tonight

ta

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Hi Wendy

Styrene will have the label stuck on I.E. you could get a fingernail under it and peel it off. also, if you tap styrene lightly, it sounds brittle and tinny. dont try to flex styrene, as it will crack! Vinyl copies have labels that look 'moulded' into the vinyl, you could not pick one off at the edge, and have a degree of flex. Best I can do, hope it helps.

also try snapping it in half.

If it bends nice before it breaks then its vinyl

if it shatters in 1000 bits its styrene

thats a sure way to tell with no doubts

the gasher..

also try snapping it in half.

If it bends nice before it breaks then its vinyl

if it shatters in 1000 bits its styrene

thats a sure way to tell with no doubts

the gasher..

link

how do i tell the difference between styrene & vinyl?

i assumed i had a vinyl copy....will check it out tonight

ta

link

If you look down the edge of a styrene record, it appears to have 2 layers, vinyl are usually a brownish colour on the edge.

Most styrene have stuck on labels, alshtough I have a few that appear to be moulded.

I was told ALL originals jump as it was a jump in the mater and therefore pressed into all copies.

The demo is the best one to have as they were never booted.

Billy

I was told ALL originals jump as it was a jump in the mater and therefore pressed into all copies.

The demo is the best one to have as they were never booted.

Billy

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The demos definitely don't jump. I had a mint unplayed demo copy just in from the US bought round to my place and it didn't jump. Horribly distorted though, I think that is what led to the mastering problem, the mix is too high up or something and the cutting head on the disc cutter probably freaked out.

I have always liked the record but when I hear it out or even on a legit cd the sound quality is very poor. Are the demos any better? Also did they use the demos to copy onto the legit cd's?

Shane

I have always liked the record but when I hear it out or even on a legit cd the sound quality is very poor. Are the demos any better? Also did they use the demos to copy onto the legit cd's?

Shane

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The first half of the record sounded okay but by the end the vocal was breaking up and the bass was pretty unpleasant. I find it rather painful to listen to loud. I did play it on a pretty well set up deck and there was some improvement but at the end of the day they cocked up the mastering, therefore not sure that the demos are any better, they still sound rather bad IMHO. Shame, great record though.

The demos definitely don't jump.  I had a mint unplayed demo copy just in from the US bought round to my place and it didn't jump.  Horribly distorted though, I think that is what led to the mastering problem, the mix is too high up or something and the cutting head on the disc cutter probably freaked out.

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I don't have mine anymore, but I know it didn't jump, seems to have been a problem with the issues only. The sound quality wasn't bad too. I mean it had hisses and ticks and stuff, but that's cos it was rough

Its funny because the owner of that copy played it at home on a £99 Argos "hi-fi" special and I got the impression it was probably more listenable on that.

Well it arrived today and its............Styrene! styrene, styrene, fucking STYRENE! :angry:

"Yes, it is definatly VINYL".....Bollocks!

Either the guy doesn't know the difference, or hes a f***ing rip-off!

Well he only lives in Harrogate-20 minutes away. Either he returns my money, or I go and kick his skanky arse!

Ahh well.....learn your lesson for today from Uncle Trevski. "If something looks too good to be true..It probably is!"....even if the seller tells you it is true!

apologies for posting misleading info about my 45 - i've got a styrene copy too. why the hell would anyone bootleg a 45 on styrene? & does this mean the styrene will self-destruct in 2 years time??

poor you trevski, i guess the 'normal' record buying population havent even heard of styrene

Well it arrived today and its............Styrene! styrene, styrene, fucking STYRENE! :angry:

"Yes, it is definatly VINYL".....Bollocks!

Either the guy doesn't know the difference, or hes a f***ing rip-off!

Well he only lives in Harrogate-20 minutes away. Either he returns my money, or I go and kick his skanky arse!

Ahh well.....learn your lesson for today from Uncle Trevski. "If something looks too good to be true..It probably is!"....even if the seller tells you it is true!

     

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Ohhhh I don't have to kick myself... Seriously though, sorry to hear that you didn't get the bargain you thought you had, hope you get your money back with no problems

Ohhhh I don't have to kick myself...  Seriously though, sorry to hear that you didn't get the bargain you thought you had, hope you get your money back with no problems 

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Thanks Rachel (hangs head in shame and embarrasment!)

not only are the boots styrene but the label is a lot lighter shade of green than the original.

The delta number scratched in the styrene boot run out groove is #102402.

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100% Bootleg.

So that everyone is aware for future ref Delta Numbers 100,000 and up were from 1977. Delta Numbers 80,000 were c. 1972. So anything numbered above 90,000 is a boot for the northern scene, unless of course any record was a new release at the time (i.e 70s), in which case it could have a legit delta number that high. Original Gwen Owens didn't have delta numbers anyway.

Money safely back in my Paypal acount, with profound appologies from the seller.

He even paid me the postage to send it back to him! Good outcome, but I would still have liked it to really have been vinyl!

Edited January 28, 200520 yr by Trevski

Money safely back in my  Paypal acount, with profound appologies from the seller.

He even paid me the postage to send it back to him! Good outcome, but I would still have liked it really have been vinyl!

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Good result there Trevski .... cause he could easily have ignored you as "a sale is a sale" as far as eBay are concerned irrespective of what you say to them .... just interested in the "income" from sales :angry: ....

Now for your vinyl search of this readily available tune ....

With regards gwen owens 45 it actually got 3 pressings in original format w/d which i sol some years ago and played perfectly the more common faulty press -( certainly the original plates were sub standard they are very temperamental to temperature fluctuations and have a very short lifespan ) this accounts for it's rarity ,most will have been destroyed ! the mastertape must have been sound proof is the w/d ,in any case who would send a 45 to press if the sound quality was has poor as the faulty one ? then the rarest format the perfect press issue which gwen brought over with the 4 copies to prestatyneveryone thought it was a boot cos it has thinner vinyl and grooves, gwen told me that because of the failure of the first press it was given another go.god knows where the copies are, she also went on to say that the backing vocals were 2-3 of her friends from college.the 4 copies she brought over had been in the family since the 60's

how do i tell the difference between styrene & vinyl?

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you can tell cos you can pick the label off on styrene 45's. All my styrene 45's at home are now only labelled on one side. If i ever sell them i shall class them as being cocked-up at the pressing plant, ultra rare and get more money

Though some Styrenes have the 'label' design printed straight onto the styrene. this is not a problem though cos the comes off with meths.

and I then read a few post down to see Trevski has answered it Doh! Sorry!

how do i tell the difference between styrene & vinyl?

i assumed i had a vinyl copy....will check it out tonight

ta

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The technical reply...I did a post on terms and definitions which someone passed on years ago and these can be found elsewhere on site.....

Styrene (properly, Polystyrene).

Hard, relatively inflexible plastic used to press records, mainly 7-inch

singles, mainly using the Injection Moulding process. The material is heated

to a liquid form and is then squirted or injected into the closed stampers

in the press. This requires that the labels be either glued or painted on

after the record leaves the press. The cost savings to the manufacturer

comes from the extended life of the stampers because of the lack of a

heating cycle to the stampers. The material can also be reused without

noticeable change to its moulding properties. Styrene records will therefore

usually have very quiet surfaces when found in an UNPLAYED Mint condition,

but unfortunately they will wear to a noisy condition rapidly, especially if

played with a bad stylus or an improperly tracking tonearm. They also are

more prone to Cue Burn. The Columbia Records Pittman, New Jersey pressing

plant was once the major source of Injection Moulded Styrene pressings, and

pressings from this plant are found on MANY small labels. Look for the

glued-on labels. Painted-on labels can be found on records from the

Amy/Bell/Mala group.

Vinyl (properly Polyvinyl Chloride).

Relatively flexible material used since the early 1930s to make

non-breakable records. Its fumes are an acknowledged carcinogen, so don't

breathe in deeply when you have your next holy burning of Beatles or

back-masked devil-worship records. :-) Usually pressed by Compression

Moulding which allows the label to be an integral part of the pressing

itself. This process also requires that there be extra material which spills

out the sides of the press, therefore this extra material is routinely

ground up and re-used. Because vinyl does not re-heat and re-cool to a

smooth, glossy surface, the excessive use of  re-grind mixed in with Virgin

Vinyl can account for the inherently noisy surface of even unplayed Mint

examples of the cheap pressings that some record companies used. Noise can

be seen AND HEARD by looking at and/or playing the un-grooved surface of the

lead-in and lead-out areas. If this area looks or sounds grainy, then the

grooves will also have some of this grainy background sound. The stampers

used for the compression moulding process will start to break down after

only 1,000 pressings because they are forced to expand and contract when

heated by steam at the start of the pressing cycle and then cooled to

solidify the record. Some companies routinely overused their stampers for

their pop record series.

Edited January 29, 200520 yr by chalky

Will have to look at mine now.....

Not dug this out in years..............

remember that one side is green in colour and the other side was white with green writing.........

btw, currently there are three copies available from different sources.

btw, currently there are three copies available from different sources.

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For sale now ? , any idea on condition, price etc ?

All originals that ive ever listened to including the one here HISS for 20 odd seconds of there life, some even longer.