I dont want to turn this into a modern v oldies debate and you all know which side of the fence I'm on but i have a serious question about modern rooms.

On the way home from Hamburg and chattin to friends i posed the question, " Why are modern rooms always empty?"

I get about a bit ( yeah yeah ur makin up ur own jokes now aint ya!!) seriously though....I go out every weekend up and down this great country of ours and at every do i go to without exception, the modern rooms are more or less empty. In fact they are places to go if you want to sit down for a while and catch your breath if you're too hot and sweaty from dancin to all those tired old oldies that pack the floor in the main room.

I'm forever being told that modern is the future and im just an old dinosaur but where are all the modern fans? All at home on a sat night on here slaggin off oldies dos it would seem!!! only jokin.... but it is a serious question.

Is it because they go to nights that lean more towards Modern in the main room? If thats the case then why have a Modern room at all? I think RnB rooms are the way to go. Just got back from Hamburg and the main (mainly oldies) room and the RnB room were banged out. There were plenty of seats and room on the floor in the modern room which was used as a breathing area from both the other rooms.

I'm sure Ill get plenty of posts on this but like i said its not an oldies v modern debate.

Any comments?..........

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I don't see the Orwell (or The Greatstone for that matter) as 'Across the board' OR 'Modern' venues!

Being a one room venue we do play a wider range of tuneage BUT not 'truly' across the board! I'd say late 60's to early 80's (at a push) are about the limits! Mainly late 60's/early 70's Crossover, mid/late 70's modern soul, quality 60's & a few late 70's/early 80's steppers!

I know this isn't exactly what this thread is about BUT these one room events are a kind of 'third scene' that have a life of their own. Look around the country, there's quite a few that have sprung up around the place nowadays!

Cheers

Steve

yes it's the same up here in bonnie Scotland there's definatly a 'third scene' smaller venues smaller crowds but more open minded people, dj's like Fraser Dunn, The Gasher, the guys from Satchamos in Dundee and The Web in Edinburgh are truly trying to push it forward......

and for the record the modern crowd are just as good at dancing as the 60's lot!!! we can still throw some shapes

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I don't see the Orwell (or The Greatstone for that matter) as 'Across the board' OR 'Modern' venues!

Being a one room venue we do play a wider range of tuneage BUT not 'truly' across the board! I'd say late 60's to early 80's (at a push) are about the limits! Mainly late 60's/early 70's Crossover, mid/late 70's modern soul, quality 60's & a few late 70's/early 80's steppers!

I know this isn't exactly what this thread is about BUT these one room events are a kind of 'third scene' that have a life of their own. Look around the country, there's quite a few that have sprung up around the place nowadays!

Cheers

Steve

I stand corrected and there was I giving you a free plug and big up

I stand corrected and there was I giving you a free plug and big up

Nice one Dave

ALWAYS appreciate a free plug and big up

As a DJ who's been on twice at The Orwell this year, I'd say that your playlist epitomises what we and other like-minded events are all about! In fact your great balanced sets (especially at the anniversary in March) was exactly what i was talking about earlier!

Does that equal things up mate

Cheers

Steve

I'd of thought Dave would of gone right across the board and past it ?

To be honest, I've never been in favour of the 'two room' thinking... and here's why!

I honestly believe that a Soul Music promoter who want's to run a night and get his or her point (or aspirations) over should be aiming to do it in one room (whether that be Oldies, 60's, 70's, Modern, Crossover or whatever!).

Anything else always seems to me to be an attempt to paper the walls, or up the gate, to my way of thinking.

When myself and Tats Taylor, Kev Briscoe and John Benson set up the 'PITCHES' thing (over 10 years ago) our intention was to promote quality Soul Music from ALL four decades all in the one room... hence the first 'Across The Board' Soul night and the coining of the phrase.

Whether anyone else would subscribe to it or support it was untried and untested at the time. Fortunately it was hugely succesful... over several years... and started a continuing trend, but at the time, whether it had worked or not, we were just doing what we passionately believed in.

Thus, if your thing is Northern Oldies or Modern Soul (or whatever the genre) and you honestly believe that that's what you want to promote then go all out to make that one room work, rather than dilute the crowd (and the message) and compromise your intentions.

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that a 'truly' Across The Board' / 'Just Soul' approach works best for me (as we see at Soul Essence) where Soul Lovers can appreciate and experience the best of everything that Black America has produced over the past 40+ years.

Sean

after all they never stopped making good records on the 31st dec 1969 did they?

Well yes they did actually, I don't know why people can't get it into their heads that the reason that some people only like 60's soul is because of the way it sounds, the productions of the 70's are totally different to those of the 60's so why does it follow that people should embrace them in the same way they do the 60's records?

Well yes they did actually, I don't know why people can't get it into their heads that the reason that some people only like 60's soul is because of the way it sounds, the productions of the 70's are totally different to those of the 60's so why does it follow that people should embrace them in the same way they do the 60's records?

They shouldn't Pete, any more than if you or I prefer Coffee to Tea.

Personal taste is PERSONAL...

...anything else is Fascism!

Likewise, if someone's personal taste includes 'all kinds of Soul' then, of course, that is equally valid.

I guess we all need to be true to ourselves and vote with our feet... and our ears!

Sean

....I go out every weekend up and down this great country of ours and at every do i go to without exception, the modern rooms are more or less empty. In fact they are places to go if you want to sit down for a while and catch your breath if you're too hot and sweaty from dancin to all those tired old oldies that pack the floor in the main room.

Your question "Why are modern rooms always empty?"

My answer, because they are playing modern

I am not a great lover of modern as most people I know will vouch for, and if there is a modern set at a one room event I don't moan about it I just go and have a fag and a natter and I have been known to dance to the odd disco tune from time to time.

But on a more serious note, just because a main room isn't playing modern it certainly doesn't need to be playing , as you put "tired old oldies" You obviously go to the wrong events.

QoFxx

Your question "Why are modern rooms always empty?"

My answer, because they are playing modern

I am not a great lover of modern as most people I know will vouch for, and if there is a modern set at a one room event I don't moan about it I just go and have a fag and a natter and I have been known to dance to the odd disco tune from time to time.

But on a more serious note, just because a main room isn't playing modern it certainly doesn't need to be playing , as you put "tired old oldies" You obviously go to the wrong events.

QoFxx

that was a bit tongue in cheek to be honest xxx coz i always get stick for my taste!!!

Helen

XXXXX

Well yes they did actually, I don't know why people can't get it into their heads that the reason that some people only like 60's soul is because of the way it sounds, the productions of the 70's are totally different to those of the 60's so why does it follow that people should embrace them in the same way they do the 60's records?

Spot on Pete...I fully agree...chalk and cheese...I cant understand why folk cant see it..

Bazza

Spot on Pete...I fully agree...chalk and cheese...I cant understand why folk cant see it..

Bazza

Yeah but how can someone say they don't like 70's records and then single out obvious disco productions as being to their taste ?

Edited October 9, 200717 yr by Simon M

Yeah but how can a someone say they don't like 70's records and then single out obvious disco productions as being to their taste ?

Im ..not saying I dont like some modern type tunes ...but I much prefer the 60's sound...your splitting hairs here Simon

Bazza

Edited October 9, 200717 yr by bazza

Im ..not saying I dont like some modern type tunes ...but I much prefer the 60's sound...your splitting hairs here Simon

Bazza

Ok i was also thinking of Pete saying he likes Brainstorm and Summer in the parks ..

that was a bit tongue in cheek to be honest xxx coz i always get stick for my taste!!!

Helen

XXXXX

ANd quite rightly so

I have to agree with Pete S on this one the sound of 60s music is a totally different thing to the 70s played.

I actually prefer single room events that way I get to annoy all my friends as even the ones who like modern can't escape me then

QoFxx

99% of modern is made by one person sitting at a computer and playing with gadgets and adding different vocals to stop every sound he makes from sounding like a cross between hill street blues, starsky and hutch and saturday night fever, its as simple as that

60s is performed live by very talented muscicians and vocalists in the flesh and singing and performing live, thats why it a bit rough around the edges at times unlike modern which has been digitally enhanced

now we all know the difference that should help you stay out of the modern rooms in future if you ever wondered what it sounded like

that was a bit tongue in cheek to be honest xxx coz i always get stick for my taste!!!

Helen

XXXXX

what taste

99% of modern is made by one person sitting at a computer and playing with gadgets and adding different vocals to stop every sound he makes from sounding like a cross between hill street blues, starsky and hutch and saturday night fever, its as simple as that

60s is performed live by very talented muscicians and vocalists in the flesh and singing and performing live, thats why it a bit rough around the edges at times unlike modern which has been digitally enhanced

now we all know the difference that should help you stay out of the modern rooms in future if you ever wondered what it sounded like

Tell us about the 1% then Bearsy

Tell us about the 1% then Bearsy

its the ones i like all 23 of them

Edited October 9, 200717 yr by Bearsy

what taste

Well i like you so i guess you're right. I aint got any,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Well i like you so i guess you're right. I aint got any,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

exactly Helen but more to the point WHY have you started a modern soul thread when i know how much you despise the stuff, are you starting to turn to the darkside

its the ones i like

but youve got 70's disco on Italia picture cover

Edited October 9, 200717 yr by Simon M

Ive not got an ipod thanks nasty things .with rubbish earphones !!

Thats where you are missing out. Shell out £150 on a pair of Bose earphones. Worth every penny.

Sorry to hi jack your thread Helen - nice to meet you at Bisley.

but youve got 70's disco on Italia picture cover

exactly thats one of the ones i do actually like

Thats where you are missing out. Shell out £150 on a pair of Bose earphones. Worth every penny.

Sorry to hi jack your thread Helen - nice to meet you at Bisley.

Yes they are tempting !!

Ive not got an ipod thanks nasty things .with rubbish earphones !!

why does it look like your wearing one when you dancing then in the middle of the dance floor with a pint in your hand, cos if you aint wearing one what the feck are you dancing too

Yes they are tempting !!

,

Not just those but the German ones, Hansa label I think, by groups that look right, but never sound right when you get them home.

why does it look like your wearing one when you dancing then in the middle of the dance floor with a pint in your hand, cos if you aint wearing one what the feck are you dancing too

well that Reg played a load of 70's , he was great . whens that book out ?

well that Reg played a load of 70's , he was great . whens that book out ?

I cant remeber but you could always start a thread as there are plenty on here who know Reg, saying that Reg is on here himself sometimes,

yeah i give him that, he did play a very good set and i was impressed with some of them 60s tunes

Ok i was also thinking of Pete saying he likes Brainstorm and Summer in the parks ..

In what way is Summer In The Parks a disco record? because you can dance to it? If anything it sounds more like a fast funk record.

,

by groups that look right, but never sound right when you get them home.

Well if you are taking the group home the acoustics are never going to be the same.................and where do they all sleep

Sorry, couldn't resist it

QoFxx

Well if you are taking the group home the acoustics are never going to be the same.................and where do they all sleep

Sorry, couldn't resist it

QoFxx

Under the stairs with the rest of the help

In what way is Summer In The Parks a disco record? because you can dance to it? If anything it sounds more like a fast funk record.

Someone said it was Go-Go

Books out late November, launch is then as well.

I cant remeber but you could always start a thread as there are plenty on here who know Reg, saying that Reg is on here himself sometimes,

yeah i give him that, he did play a very good set and i was impressed with some of them 60s tunes

he never played 60's

I think in a way its similar to the R&B rooms in that its hard to find 1 dj set, let alone a whole nights worth of SOUL music.

What happens when you cast your net over an even smaller part of Soul music is the options and therefore Soulfulness (note i didnt say quality)is compromised

Of course good tunes will get played, but on the whole the style seems to trump the soulfulness, and as we are all soul fans.......

P.S.

Answered original question without reading the whole thread, so if im just repeating im soz

Well yes they did actually, I don't know why people can't get it into their heads that the reason that some people only like 60's soul is because of the way it sounds, the productions of the 70's are totally different to those of the 60's so why does it follow that people should embrace them in the same way they do the 60's records?

so lets have this right its the productions that changed not the music? yes i could say that and youre right to a certain degree, but its the same artists, same producers, same studios, it was the use of technology that changed, the classic example of this is Ron Murphy of Gold Soul fame, he's still working Detroit and cutting records with Underground Ressistance who are a techno collective, still working with black artists, still making dance music but for a different generation you can get 70's tunes that sound gritty and basic as hell or a big 60's sounds that is over produced and imho there should be a place for both in the same room at any niter/soul night or weekender or wherever.....at the end of the day there's only two types of soul record, good or bad, but the thing is being open minded enough appreciate the good ones regardless of which era there from thats what matters

It's amazing how many people DON'T like all periods of soul music.

Derek

I don't find it amazing at all.

I'm surprised that people think that just because we like 60s soul or R&B we MUST like all other sub-genres and decades. Why? To me modern soul is as different from R&B as Country is from Thrash Metal. I don't mind Modern but really don't like so called 'Deep Soul'. No one likes, or has to like, everything surely?

As to the question what is modern soul and when did it start? I don't think it can be counted chronologically, it's a different genre (or a clear sub-genre) than Northern. Whenever i go into modern soul rooms i hear music that doesn't have the tempo and rhythms of Northern (probably one of the reasons i'm not so keen on it) so i'm surprised that any DJ plays 70s and 80s Northern in a Modern room.

Matt

so lets have this right its the productions that changed not the music? yes i could say that and youre right to a certain degree, but its the same artists, same producers, same studios, it was the use of technology that changed, the classic example of this is Ron Murphy of Gold Soul fame, he's still working Detroit and cutting records with Underground Ressistance who are a techno collective, still working with black artists, still making dance music but for a different generation you can get 70's tunes that sound gritty and basic as hell or a big 60's sounds that is over produced and imho there should be a place for both in the same room at any niter/soul night or weekender or wherever.....at the end of the day there's only two types of soul record, good or bad, but the thing is being open minded enough appreciate the good ones regardless of which era there from thats what matters

I'm banging my head against a brick wall aren't I?

so lets have this right its the productions that changed not the music? yes i could say that and youre right to a certain degree, but its the same artists, same producers, same studios, it was the use of technology that changed, the classic example of this is Ron Murphy of Gold Soul fame, he's still working Detroit and cutting records with Underground Ressistance who are a techno collective, still working with black artists, still making dance music but for a different generation you can get 70's tunes that sound gritty and basic as hell or a big 60's sounds that is over produced and imho there should be a place for both in the same room at any niter/soul night or weekender or wherever.....at the end of the day there's only two types of soul record, good or bad, but the thing is being open minded enough appreciate the good ones regardless of which era there from thats what matters

BANG ON.

so lets have this right its the productions that changed not the music? yes i could say that and youre right to a certain degree, but its the same artists, same producers, same studios, it was the use of technology that changed, the classic example of this is Ron Murphy of Gold Soul fame, he's still working Detroit and cutting records with Underground Ressistance who are a techno collective, still working with black artists, still making dance music but for a different generation you can get 70's tunes that sound gritty and basic as hell or a big 60's sounds that is over produced and imho there should be a place for both in the same room at any niter/soul night or weekender or wherever.....at the end of the day there's only two types of soul record, good or bad, but the thing is being open minded enough appreciate the good ones regardless of which era there from thats what matters

Can you just read Matt Males' reply above as to why people don't like certain types of soul music because I really can't be arsed to type out the same thing again and again. Why is it so important for people like yourself to try to educate us lesser mortals who prefer 60's soul. Why is it so important to you that I listen to something I can't stand. Would you listen to some of my hardcore punk tracks if I asked you to? Or jungle/drum&bass? I wouldn't ask you to because I'm sure you can make up your own mind about what you like and what you don't like - same as I can. I'm as open minded about music as anyone on here, I've got a vast collection of cd's, over 2000 of them, but they cover all kinds of different music, so you can't say I am not open minded about music. I don't, however, have any modern soul, because at the end of the day, it's sh*t.

so lets have this right its the productions that changed not the music? yes i could say that and youre right to a certain degree, but its the same artists, same producers, same studios, it was the use of technology that changed, the classic example of this is Ron Murphy of Gold Soul fame, he's still working Detroit and cutting records with Underground Ressistance who are a techno collective, still working with black artists, still making dance music but for a different generation you can get 70's tunes that sound gritty and basic as hell or a big 60's sounds that is over produced and imho there should be a place for both in the same room at any niter/soul night or weekender or wherever.....at the end of the day there's only two types of soul record, good or bad, but the thing is being open minded enough appreciate the good ones regardless of which era there from thats what matters

That's a pretty good post..........but you're wasting your valuable time here mate, I think.

I have an old compo tape in the car at the moment that I made up some years ago from new releases at the time, and back to back on that tape are Yukihiro Fukutomi "Love Each Other" and Stan Mosley's "Kiss and Tell"............both modern (as in around 5 years old) but both very different in style (1 house and 1 southern soul), but they're equally brilliant because they both have "IT".

As you say, made for a different generation, with different technology, but in some cases by the same people...........people are free to decide what they like, but you can't deny this stuff it's place.

Cheers,

Mark R

so lets have this right its the productions that changed not the music? yes i could say that and youre right to a certain degree, but its the same artists, same producers, same studios, it was the use of technology that changed, the classic example of this is Ron Murphy of Gold Soul fame, he's still working Detroit and cutting records with Underground Ressistance who are a techno collective, still working with black artists, still making dance music but for a different generation you can get 70's tunes that sound gritty and basic as hell or a big 60's sounds that is over produced and imho there should be a place for both in the same room at any niter/soul night or weekender or wherever.....at the end of the day there's only two types of soul record, good or bad, but the thing is being open minded enough appreciate the good ones regardless of which era there from thats what matters

right on the button !

why is it that all the hardcore modern fans call the 60s only crowd 'narrow-minded'?

if this is the case, why don't you play 60s in the modern rooms?

i much prefer 60s soul if asked but can like other bits of everything now and again.

i agree with pete smith. there is a big difference that people just cant get on with.

shane

why is it that all the hardcore modern fans call the 60s only crowd 'narrow-minded'?

if this is the case, why don't you play 60s in the modern rooms?

i much prefer 60s soul if asked but can like other bits of everything now and again.

i agree with pete smith. there is a big difference that people just cant get on with.

shane

I dont think theres any hardcore modern fans on here is there ? just people who like 60's to present day soul music ?

so lets have this right its the productions that changed not the music? yes i could say that and youre right to a certain degree, but its the same artists, same producers, same studios, it was the use of technology that changed, the classic example of this is Ron Murphy of Gold Soul fame, he's still working Detroit and cutting records with Underground Ressistance who are a techno collective, still working with black artists, still making dance music but for a different generation you can get 70's tunes that sound gritty and basic as hell or a big 60's sounds that is over produced and imho there should be a place for both in the same room at any niter/soul night or weekender or wherever.....at the end of the day there's only two types of soul record, good or bad, but the thing is being open minded enough appreciate the good ones regardless of which era there from thats what matters

The key word here is 'appreciate'. Yes we can all appreciate something is considered good without liking it. I can appreciate how people can love Elvis songs and Metallica, but i'm not keen on it. If your post were true, then we'd all like every era of soul, but we don't, so it can't be true can it?

There's that phrase again 'open minded', you don't like modern so you're not 'open minded'. What a load of rubbish. I'm open to all kinds of music, and not just soul btw, but if i don't enjoy something what can i do about it? I go into modern rooms, i listen to the clips on Crazy Beat Records, i even joined EMS! It's not bad but at the end of the day it just doesn't get me like 60s and 70s soul and R&B.

Also the point about the same artists, same producers, same writers etc... So what? Doesn't mean they want to, or even achieve the same sound. I like early Stevie Wonder but his later stuff is crap, same goes for plenty of singers and groups. I've got a Blue Note album somewhere with a quote from a white Jazzman who says that most on the album are white 'because black kids are off doing something else' in other words not making soul or Jazz records anymore.

Hope that all makes sense?

Edited October 9, 200717 yr by Matt Male

The point is that most modern rooms at northern do's aren't really modern rooms - they're to all intents and purposes 70s rooms.

These can be popular but you have got to have the right DJs, promotion and sounds. It worked at The Plinston in The Ghetto for example.

Too many of these so called modern rooms attached to northern rooms are staffed by "carpetbaggers" - northern soul jocks with a few overplayed 70s anthems that they've won on John M's auction and who are doubling up and moonlighting between sets in the northern room. This might keep the promotors costs down, but it doesn't help make for an attarctive night for people who'd potentially go to these venues. Not many DJs can play good 60s sets and good 70s sets. Too often the so called "modern room" northern DJ is just playing the same old same old. And that ain't really modern No wonder people don't bother!

The point is that most modern rooms at northern do's aren't really modern rooms - they're to all intents and purposes 70s rooms.

These can be popular but you have got to have the right DJs, promotion and sounds. It worked at The Plinston in The Ghetto for example.

Too many of these so called modern rooms attached to northern rooms are staffed by "carpetbaggers" - northern soul jocks with a few overplayed 70s anthems that they've won on John M's auction and who are doubling up and moonlighting between sets in the northern room. This might keep the promotors costs down, but it doesn't help make for an attarctive night for people who'd potentially go to these venues. Not many DJs can play good 60s sets and good 70s sets. Too often the so called "modern room" northern DJ is just playing the same old same old. And that ain't really modern No wonder people don't bother!

This is a 'bang on' post and which answers the original question IMO.

I dont want to turn this into a modern v oldies debate and you all know which side of the fence I'm on but i have a serious question about modern rooms.

" Why are modern rooms always empty?"

Any comments?..........

Quite simple really........They're NOT always empty!

First off let me be clear of MY personal definition of 'Modern Soul' here, it's nothing made in the seventies, nothing made in the eighties, maybe a little bit of ninties but definitely music made in the noughties, all tempos, all styles, Indie, Southern, Soulful Garage but SOULFUL through voice or vibe. If you accept that definition and are not expecting to hear Charles Johnson or Driza Bone, then you need to visit Prestwich (two rooms Northern and Modern) where the 'Modern' room is packed EVERY month. Then if that's not enough try Stoke this weekend (Two Rooms Nothern and Modern) the Modern Room was very busy last time and will be again on Saturday. Failing that try BURY on the 19th (two rooms Northern and Modern) cause that'll be a busy Modern Room as well. If you cant make any of them then maybe you could try Fleetwood Marine Hall on the 27th (two rooms Northern and Modern) and the Modern Room will be FAR from empty there.

These gigs are just off the top of my head and demonstrate that the 'Modern' Rooms as described in the initial post are far from empty.

QED

BazM

why is it that all the hardcore modern fans call the 60s only crowd 'narrow-minded'?

if this is the case, why don't you play 60s in the modern rooms?

i much prefer 60s soul if asked but can like other bits of everything now and again.

i agree with pete smith. there is a big difference that people just cant get on with.

shane

Yes, there is a big difference,but if you dont get it, you dont get it I suppose, plus I just dont get the same feeling when listening to a modern type tune, but as pete sez, we are doing this > by trying to explain what a 60s tune has that most 70s tunes dont

Bazza