Davenpete

There are as many answers as there are records and Northern fans - I know old Wheelers that think the move away from RnB around 67 was a betrayal and that Motown is merely pop music made by black artists for white people. Conversely the boss (who started in the last days of the Wheel) is a total Motown obsessive and rates it more highly than a lot of out and out classic Northern Detroit indie stuff and hates a lot of the R'n'B I have that his older friends like. I don't think there IS a line because where Northern-ish Motown becomes 'Northern' the edges are just too blurred - partly because I don't think you can define 'Northern' any more definitely than 'music played at venues that call themselves northern soul clubs' ...and once you get into 70s and 80s stuff (Motown or whatever else) well it gets REALLY messed up - I've seen people very recently STILL damning the Mecca's move into playing 70s and disco as completely wrong more than 40 years ago on here only a couple of weeks ago. The trouble is that about 90% of Motown interest globally is in the popiest chart hits by Diana Ross, Marvin, the Four Tops and Michael Jackson with zero interest in the supreme work of the also ran artists we revere - and that the most truly expert Motown fans are those with a love of soul largely rooted in a Northern Soul youth - even if they have moved away from it as their core interest. I think nowadays most of us are old enough, mature enough and know enough to recognise that there is A LOT of soulful stuff that is great that isn't strictly northern (RnB, soulful house, disco, jazz funk, mid tempo, deep etc etc) - and a lot of currently/recently popular 'northern' stuff that wouldn't have been recognised as such 40 years ago. Dx

Heard last night from Judy Moss - didn't know him well, but he was such a nice guy - such a pity, our sincere best wishes to Val. P&D

When I started going at the beginning of 83 you could still join WCSC and get an official membership directly from Winstanley; never did, but I think they were yellow, you could also buy genuine original Casino patches - I have two or three I bought then in my copious collection of 'stuff'. Dx

Shocked to hear he passed away last night unexpectedly. A real shame - nutty as a fruitcake but a real landmark character on the scene. RIP. Pete & Dave

ONE version is a gazillion times better than the other which is so bad it's insulting IMO - no prizes for guessing which one I vote for. Dx

Nice - sounds like she's trying very hard to sound like Corey Day/Dr Buzzard. Dx

Took me years to find out what The Mayfield Singers was having had it on a tape of obscure stuff that Mickey Cruise gave me - kept bumping into various versions of Bobby Calender, Smokey Robinson etc instead. Anyway the whole thing is just fabulous, one of my all-timers, and never heard out - only come across it on the other side of ONE pressing of Don't Start None. Dx

Shadow of a Memory - one of my all-time favourites. Benny Curtis is daft though - sold mine for about £20. Dx

I watched you SLOWLY slip away belted out is a bit of an oxymoron to me - Howard Guyton all the way. Dx

Pete received a copy this morning. Have to say it's an absolutely superb job - huge credit to RS on this one. Dx

Surely it's how LITTLE you've paid for a record... Joann Courcy mint demo £20 about 30 years ago when it was in high demand off (black) Ivor Allen (ended up giving it to a close friend who'd had his records nicked as it was the one 45 he had really wanted but didn't have). Other than that never paid over a ton- though I haven't bought anything of real value for about 20 years - several I used to have are easily in the £2-3k bracket now. Dx

If you're THAT stupid how do you manage to make enough money to pay that kind of cash? Dx

Italo-disco

Bobby: Modern Soul - Vicki Sue: Disco - Both brilliant, but Vicki Sue Robinson defo the more 'Northern' and the more played - a favourite at the Whitney-Carnes:

Rita defo - the pained, yet resigned sound of her voice nails it. Betty Willis sounds like a bad school band with the key to the tambourine cupboard - and I think the brass section is playing a different tune altogether. Dx

Best of the best - probably my all time favourite 60s track - in fact we booked Dickie Watt to DJ Carlisle Allnighter in the late 90s specifically coz he had it (amongst other things). Dx

No yellow Mala pattern in the background and a clearly stuck on label on profiled vinyl rather than flat styrene for Musicor? Is it not obvious? Dx

Just occurred to me, I remembered it was a cover - and look at the writer - J Hayward.

Yep Ellen and the Shandells on Lasalle, also released as Dry Well. Dx

That's coz you're a disco bunny mate : ) I'm more thinking Kelly Marie 'Feels Like I'm In Love' than D Train 'You're the One' I always found this amusing - look at the credits...

Kev Roberts reckoned the 'vote' was simply based on claimed membership numbers and the assumption that the huge membership meant it was the best 'disco' - though I've also heard that it's actually just another RW invention and that that 'vote' never happened at all. Chalky - you're assuming I even dumber than I am - I FULLY understand what disco is (between me and Pete we own as much in the way of GQ, BB&Q, D Train, New York Port Authority etc as we do Northern and Motown), my point here is that WE are pigeonholing into genres that don't really exist to separate what we think of a 'quality' modern versus disco dross - it's just good soulful disco and nasty pop disco - you may hate it, but you can't argue with the fact P&P and Patrick Adams not only produced something as gloriously soulful as Daybreak, but also did In The Bush. In the same way the only real definition of 'Northern Soul' that works is 'music played at venues that consider themselves Northern Soul venues', 'Disco' is merely music played at 'discos' which (as in the original Discotheque in Paris) are simply dance clubs that play music from records rather than having live bands - at various times that's been Motown and the like, Philly, New York Disco, plastic pop sh*te and house. Dx

Interesting to see that a lot are basically saying 'if I like it, it's modern soul, if I don't it's disco' - if it's 70s and danceable it's ALL aimed at a disco of one sort or another (as was 60s essentially) and is therefore 'disco'. Don't forget that Gloria Scott came out on Casablanca - the most 'notorious' of all disco labels. The problem is that people are conflating REAL disco with the cash-in pop garbage by the likes of the Bee Gees, Abba and Cliff Richard - when straight white folks jumped on what had been a pretty hardcore mainly gay and/or black and/or latino scene with more in common with Northern Soul culturally (and musically in terms of the early 70s clubs like The Loft) than it did with Saturday Night Fever. Dx

I tend to agree - whilst I LOVE proper disco - it's synth drums, electro beat etc that I utterly detest. Dx

Have to say this is a bit of a silly question akin to 'describe the colour blue' or 'what do roses smell like' - it's an unanswerable.

Very sad news - had huge respect for Dave (and of course Wendy) - as Roger says they were the very best of the real thing. Pete & Dave