Thinksmart

I welcome the series and as you say, the chuch/Gospel aspects need to be included, but I'd hope in a way balanced that enables more inclusion. I feel the overall narrative of the series is too narrow and episode two further focuses in on only one aspect. Episode two only covers Soul from the perspective of black emancipation between 1967-1973. Hardly any female Soul artists are covered at all which was a big omission given the emergence of strong solo female singers in their own right. Sly Stone is not included (or LA at all), no Gil Scott Heron which is odd given the topic of the episode, nor Edwin Starr's War which would of been highly relevant. It's very centred around who they have access to. Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, James Brown are only included in relation to one signature song along the narrative of the episode. It is interesting to watch and the footage/interviews are welcome - but the overall thread through it is told to resonate with current events, which I do really get. However it means you already need to know about the artists and Soul before watching it or you would think 'well who is this Curtis Mayfield being mentioned'. We can say they don't have room to include more, but they have repeated segments of talking heads basically saying the same thing. The Isley Brothers aren't mentioned but would of been a useful example of a band going from R&B through Soul to hard edged funk-soul, including rock guitar, their socially-conscious but melodic soul that crossed over and onwards into their romantic area - they are a perfect example of how many aspects of Soul are embodied in one act (and often one album). Like many of us, I've got a large Soul collection after all these years and I'd suggest >70% of Soul songs are about love/romance/sex/relationships, or dancefloor/hanging out, or getting on/hustling/making money and the latest novelty dances and the like which is all entirely missing from the series, which is the broader life of the people whose music this reflects. Tge series focuses on Stax a lot so if we look at the entire output of Stax in 1967-1973 range of the second part - most of the songs are still about love and the topics I mentioned above, rather than the topics covered exclusively in the episode. WattStax was covered and what song was it that Rufus Thomas got everyone up to, the Funky Chicken! For me most importantly, there's little sense of the joy and exhuberance of Soul coming through in the series (though that Rufus Thomas footage was a good example of people just wanting to let go, enjoy themselves and party with their own people). There's no connection at all that this is music also that was often made for their audience to dance to (in USA, I don't mean UK). Even with the social problems, USA perceived itself at the time as an aspirational, American-dream country. While that was denied to many at least the making money, capitalist focus of such as James Brown was touched on. The series is told as though Soul is almost entirely a form of protest music, which is far too narrow and not true. This was music made by young adults mostly reflecting all their experience so that overlapping complication deserves to be told too. Anything not already covered is going to get little or no coverage in episode three which is all about the second generation of 'Soul Men' - the balladeers of 1970s and 1980s from the preview. So it has to cram in that plus Philly Soul, the emergence of Funk (if covered at all), Disco, 80s synth Soul/Luther/George Benson as shown in the footage at the end and bring it all up to the current day. I really do think the lack of coverage of any female Soul artists beyond The Supremes and Candi Staton popping up to speak is perhaps the most jarring omission. It is important to tell that part too as the series makes Soul feel mostly a male musical form. By 1973 when the episode ended - Gladys Knight, Millie Jackson, Ann Peebles, Roberta Flack, Sylvia, Aretha, Tina Turner with Ike, The Pointer Sisters (plus other groups with female singers such as The Persuaders) all were in the year end Billboard R&B top hundred selling singles of the year. Gladys Knight in particular had five in the top 100 and two in the top 10 sellers - yet not one of them mentioned at all in the second episode as the series turns onwards to 'Soul Men' again. There is much still to enjoy in each episode, I'm just critiquing as this is our area of interest.

Sad news and very young for such a long career.

It was okay but reduced the history too much for me to cover just Gospel/Aretha/Sam Cooke, South/Stax/Otis & Detroit/Motown. Jackie Wilson and Chicago Soul, New York Soul & importance of Harlem Apollo, Drifters & Ben E King all totally ignored as examples. Black Doo Wop, girl groups and evolution into early Soul missing. Key early artists in the transition who were big stars at the time such as Hank Ballard or Little Willie John missing. No New Orleans soul mentioned at all which and no mention of Jazz evolving to incorporate the Soul Jazz subgenre of the time. Footage of Civil Rights but The Impressions not mentioned alongside as could of added musical context. Sometimes felt like a Civil Rights programme told through Soul music, not the other way around. Might of helped if key songs like Get a Job and You Better Move On mentioned. No doubt Stevie Wonder, Smokey, Impressions, JB will be in next week. I enjoyed the artist interviews and old footage - the rest I was very disappointed with. Soul deserves the Ken Burns style extensive series. I am grateful for the series but do not see how such as Jackie Wilson, Fats Domino, Gladys Knight, Drifters etc could be totally ignored without even a mention as there was plenty of time for extensive non musical context. I know I am asking for too much, modern documentaries now pick a narrow path through their subjects, but I welcome the day we get a more complete study.

Looks like one to watch.

Essential reading. Great production values it seems.

Damn. Thanks.

Looking forward to it Pete. Rod's book arrived quickly today.

Great. Post up soon as you can with details. We all appreciate your continued dedication I'm sure. All these books are very welcome to me.

Just ordered the book. It looks excellent. Thanks for highlighting it.

Excellent, thank you. I have Amazon Prime and rarely use the TV side of it. These will be welcome watches. Sky Arts/Documentaries and BBC4 are another source I checked the schedules of every week too.

Public Domain music within the limitations of expired copyright under the law is still legit of course. I'd rather people deal with the original license holders, but the debate on legal copyright expiry is a complex one. As we know that is an interesting and wider topic.

"Given that Mickey Finn's the only one who replied to my question, I've still no idea." I gave a comprehensive answer as your first reply at the start, that was very clear on what'll pay as a premium. I've contributed since and it gets just a touch frustrating when you have said a couple of times that nobody has replied to the question when I and others are trying to help. It's not really a simple yes or no anyway to whether someone will pay a premium on CD, it depends on the item. One person's must have Disco or Gospel album is not attractive to the mid-60s specialist who wants Deep or Northern Soul only. The value also reflects how much of an artist been reissued and do they have collector or dancefloor interest. To be more specific for you, for the right CD I and others already pay a premium, it depends on the item. I'm less fussed about Funk so wouldn't pay a premium for that, but for CDs more in my area of interest - sure, so long as it feels sensible. I'll pay up to about £15 for the right release, but after that I start to question it a lot more if there is only one or two songs on an otherwise poor album. Modern Soul is especially prone to this, with one song often on a pure Disco album that I have little wider interest in. For the 1975 Ronnie McNeir album as an example (or any of the albums mentioned as not on CD yet here and in other threads), I'd pay up to around £20 but haven't bought the Japanese reissue going for £40+ on import as that just doesn't sit well with me. For some rare imports with songs on I cannot get any other way, I'll often end up paying in the £15-£30 range. The reissued Rivage album is available now for £11 on CD, whereas the Spaceark reissues in recent years were £15 from the start. I hope that is helpful.

Yes enjoying the Don Bryant album immensely.

Thanks, I will be ordering this. Best wishes, Mark

I've always enjoyed any of the dance Soul related to spies that I guess played off the popularity of James Bond, Man From Uncle, Mission Impossible, Get Smart, In Like Flint etc. Secret Agents, The Spy, I Spy For The FBI, Sock It To 'Em JB, Come Spy With Me etc. I was also a fan of the Kent Soul Agents compilation. I recall Ace did a CD of Spy related music years ago, but it wasn't just Soul related. After digging it out it was 'Come Spy With Us'. Anyway in passing on ear worms, from Secret Agents to today's..... Karate soul. Jerry O's Karate, The Emperors Karate Boogaloo etc. Karate Booaloo is especially hard to stop hearing those backing singers once in your head. I enjoy all those novelty dance things - Karate, Skate and so on as a bit of innocent fun in our music. The Skate ones were also stompers too.

I don't recall one, but feel like there is too. The song is now my earworm of the day.

Yes sad news, a singer who has been appreciated increasingly in Modern Soul over recent decades.

To keep this thread going I also welcome quality reissues on CD of: Gary Taylor' - G.T. Rockie Robbins - first album Ronnie McNeir - S.T. 1975 Thanks Mark

Great music across a number of Soulful styles, thank you.

Indeed!

Yes I have the bootleg ones but I do not know of any official ones done from the masters as you confirm. The Bootleg ones are generally bad in terms of sound quality.

I don't think we have had any high quality CDs dedicated to Ric Tic or Golden World. The songs are compiled but spread across others. But getting the original singles from the masters compiled properly on CD would be welcome. There are the usual less-than-official compilations with the usual murky quality, but they do not do the job.

Indeed. Those first two Luther albums are a must. Like some of those Aretha albums, I think I read it was the artist themselves who blocked their reissue. I could be wrong on that. The Four Tops ABC singles have now been issued in a good CD set, so I hope for the albums too soon.

There were all those Cam-Park CDs. I always felt they sounded a touch muddy and their origins were dubious. I posted the original item here as it seems to be the first CD dedicated to Northern Soul for the label, even though the songs are distributed amongst other CDs and almost now available legally online I think.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/01/martha-reeves-dancing-in-the-street-motown-protest