Modernsoulsucks

We [Dave W. and I] sourced copies from the writer's cousin I think just by looking for Massingale [odd surname] in Detroit phonebook. Dave was over there and he sent me around 20 odd copies so I figured £150 as up until then as you say it was an expensive 45. However soon became apparent the cousin could get more copies so dropped to £70 within a week. Not sure how many we ended up with but I'd guess between 100-150. We think a couple of people working together may have had access to this guy a long time before us and maybe couldn't buy all the copies [maybe the cousin wasn't as forthcoming then] or bought some and dripped them out for big money. ROD

Autumnedstoned, No it's not that. Thanks for the instructions. I first went to Ted's link and got baffled by science. Still wondering what that "Baby doll" thing was. Anyone any recollection, even you Steve but appreciate the input. ROD

Im not saying it was by the way. Just always wondered what this "Baby Doll" [maybe] was. Do I need an I-Pod to access these podcasts you've both linked me to, cos I ain't got one. 45 Im thinking of was not 70's or in anyway funky-edged. Just a trad NS stomper. Not White either I wouldn't have thought. ROD

I've no idea but... He definitely played an uptempo 45 by the "something" Brothers once or twice I'd guess around 77/78. I thought it was called "Baby doll". Never been able to find out anything about it. Never heard Hopkins Brothers,. Is there a similarity. ROD

I think Nick Soule may be looking for Epsilons. ROD

I just noticed Tatty's post. The person has obviously not listened to what I said and completely ignored my input, instead continuing to make the same mistake over and over again. From this I deduce it must be the wife. ROD

Deffo not at Wigan. Did do "Suspicion" though for Richard Im sure. Probably played it somewhere and people getting confused. As George says Dave is sure Stafford had started and I got the tape on St.Patrick's Day. Info that is both exact and useless [without year] at the same time. 5" acetates not from us. £25 seems a bit steep. I remember they were £14 to get cut and mostly done for mates, George. Didn't want everybody to have them really from "exclusive" playlist point of view. I think we got the odd drink or two out of them. I've asked RobbK whether he supplied the tapes to anybody else at the time. If not I can only assume all these acetates floating about were done off our "dj spot" tapes. ROD

Yes you're right Bob. I may have lost one and you replaced it sometime in the 90's but it was slightly altered. I know I cut Creations, Hattie Littles and Downbeats and used them once or twice when I occasionally did a spot in the 90's and after. If I had them the first time around I don't know why I didn't use them then. I guess Creations sounds somewhat old and Downbeats a bit disjointed in parts for 1982. ROD

I'd forgot all about that Andy. I do recognise and remember vast majority of the tracks although as I only had two C90 tapes I've no idea why you have enough listings there for five, albeit there is some duplication. I don't remember listings being typed out either. I assume you've done that then? ROD

I've got it on CD. These ATB nights are missing a trick here. I'd rather wind up ma waist to this than some godawful 70's dross like Drifters or Jimmy James. This is nice too ROD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THGmKY9yLRg Not soul but what Im listening to this week. ROD

Just to clarify. Bob supplied me with two C90's of Motown stuff, some of which were cut and played at Stafford. Im pretty sure Bob you told me at the time "Suspicion" was by the Originals. It was covered as the Prophets. To be honest I have no idea what we covered the others as. Was "Love starved heart" JJ Barnes "It's killing me"? The tape Simon t refers to is a mixture of this Motown plus other 45s Dave and I had at the time including Topics,Royal Robins,Monique, Court Davis. We used to sell those and all tracks were the full versions. We probably did others for those who asked with slightly different track listings. The all Motown tape Uroffal lists is not ours. As Des says the B-side looks to me like Motown album tracks as I have quite a few of those. However the A-side is made up of the tracks we were playing. Looks to me like they may have been taken from the tapes we were selling at the time as there is nothing there that we didn't have. ROD

SHS Dave, Thanks to Simon t I've just heard a tape including those unreleased Motown things and it is very fast. All of it,not just the Motown. I know we used to sell the tapes so Im assuming the quality control department let us down - the hi-speed dub must have been playing up on some/all? Maybe the Advance "Suspicion" was cut off one of those tapes as we put full versions on them. As for "Lonely lover" no idea if we added it to another tape later on. Very hazy if we ever played it cos we'd jacked or maybe just before. I may have cut it for Guy but can't remember. But anyway the Advance things were nothjing to do with us. ROD

Listening now Simon. The Northern is fast too. Really appreciate you sending me the actual sound. Thought I was going to get a list of titles. ROD

Simon t, I'd forgotten about "Stop beatin..." but pretty sure it was instr "On the avenue". Think it was backing track with back-up vocal repeating "on the avenue" ad nauseum. Wasn't even aware of Jimmy Ruffin vocal then. And I defintely don't remember anybody coming up saying you are playing these records speeded up. Drop me a PM and let me know Northern titles on that tape as Chalky wants a Staffs playlist and im having difficulty recalling much. Flynny, No full idea what was on those tapes. The tape Simon has would not include any of the non-Northern that made up the majority of them. I've not got copies now. ROD

Bob says 1980 which I think is about right but it may have been '81. I think if he measures the build-up of dust in his kitchen and bastardizes dendrochronology techniques he should come up with the exact day and month. All I know is that by the time Bob had got a tape together Dave and I were doing Stafford. That was early on but no idea when exactly. There were two tapes in all but I think we'd jacked in by the time I got the second. I had asked Bob to compile me the NS style stuff but I did get a mish-mash off him and I can't remember which tracks were on which of the tapes. For instance I think "Lonely Lover" was on the second so we may not have played that but then again I could be wrong. I think Butch may have asked for a cut of that "Absent Minded Lover" off second tape but you'd have to ask him to be certain. The ones I do remember cutting and playing were the "Suspicion", "Love starved heart" [as "It's killing me"], "Come on back to me baby" and "Angel Doll" by Temptations [maybe?], "Words" by Majestics/Monitors[?] "Sugar's never been as sweet" and "Boy from Crosstown" by Marvelettes; "In the neighbourhood" instr [as "On the avenue"]; "It's too late"; "Love is good" and "Gonna let love live" by Velvelettes. Maybe an airing for one or two others like "Spellbound" or "Watch your step" but they weren't particularly good NS just uptempo Motown. Two C90 tapes so loads of other stuff from Versatones, Miracles, Creations, Eddie Holland. No idea if all available now. A long time ago now so some things have just faded from memory. ROD PS I did play two Temps cuts to Melvin Franklin and Otis Williams back in the 90's [they were on at the Apollo Manchester and wandered in to the stall] They'd forgotten both of them.

I have no idea who you are but this is complete bollocks. Bob, You're either up late or early? I'd ignore Tatty's post. He's made it up. As you alluded to we were in your flat,I having made a spiffing job of cleaning up your kitchen and now relaxing [it's not all glamour and excitement], and listening to a tape when Temptations " Come on Back..." / "Forever in..." came on. Intrigued, I asked you what it was and then the whole story about you and Tom's research for the "Vaults" album came out. I think you found a couple more tracks on tape including "Suspicion" but was unable to access any others at the time because the tape collection was in similar disarray to the kitchen [which I hope you're keeping tidy] Obviously perfect for NS scene and you then compiled a tape and sent it to me and I got acetates cut somewhere in Birmingham [interestingly by the guy who then put out that Maisonettes record which sounded awfully like a re-working of the instr track to "In the neighbourhood"]. The second tape with "Lonely lover" was a bit later At the time I didn't have any idea original acetates existed and wasn't that bothered as I assumed most were off reel-to-reel tapes. No idea there were different versions of "Suspicion" either. I do have a recollection though of some LA dealer getting some acetates maybe from Tom but I can't remember his name. Another folktale going around is that we speeded some of the tracks, and specifically "Suspicion", up somehow. As I wouldn't have the first clue how to do that Im assuming your cassette player was on the blink or now from your post that the version on tape was faster than others. Of course we had nothing to do with booting anything nor were Motown breathing down our necks as Tatty suggests. The first "boots" I recall were on an LP that was available here. I read on here that John Manship got the tracks off Bob Cattaneo. You would know more about that than me as assume you and Tom knew him. I had met BC a couple of times but he didn't get tapes off me. He did have a lovely smart kitchen though. ROD

Yes I got that sometime soon after Nevels came to my attention in 70's and kept it for quite a few years but it looked off-centre and sounded "draggy" but then I think the Dotty's copy sounded like that too. No idea how rare Star Track copies are so I don't know what other copies are like. Premium Stuff, Is Joe Moorhouse reliable? Could he be thinking of Lee Jennings? RobbK has a tendency to conjure records out of thin air based on conjecture. Records he'd like to own if only they had come out. Interesting exercise but he then he used to add to his wants list which gets confusing. ROD

And Gail Nevels is on the multi-coloured of course. ROD

My wife would like to know if it comes in "teal" as it would go with the cushions and curtains.

Are you talking soul skirts here?

Hope OK to bump this as I've added a few more for trade [or sale]. ROD

Well you'd have to ask John about that really cos his accountant may suggest ways of dealing with that. However whatever John sells on that site it is part of his turnover so he will pay VAT on the whole amount I believe. So for instance if it is on commission and say he gets £200 for selling a £2000 45 he pays VAT on the whole £2000 and not just the £200. That's how VAT works as far as I remember. When he comes to do his annual accounts once his expenses,tax allowance etc are taken into account ordinary tax will be deducted from the profit which in this case is £200. Simply put I sold for £2000, I paid 1800, I made 200.

I have a vague recollection of that. I have a memory of him turning up at the Mecca with them along with others. Ian D might remember. Wasn't it Ian who came into the club and twatted him, maybe the same night. ROD

Don't know a lot about taxation other than PAYE, but how does it work on an auction item? How is it broke down ? Is there any VAT involved ? are you taxed on your commission? I think Im right in this but it's 11 years since I stopped being a full-time record dealer. There is a threshhold where you pay VAT on all your takings [NOT profit]if you take in over the limit. In my day it was around £30,000 and increased to over £40,000 in a space of 10 years. So say I made £40K per annum the VAT bill would be £7K p.a. at 17.5% as it was then. Think I paid quarterly. The idea is that to balance that bill I'd also claim back and deduct the VAT I'd paid. As my stock came from the USA in the main I was on a bit of a loser because there is no VAT charged on the records I'd bought. The only VAT involved for me to claim back would be on say shipping or if I had a list printed. So if I bought say £20K worth of records from US in a year none of that total would be VAT that I could balance against the VAT I owed when selling them on. If it had been possible to buy that stock from an English supplier he would have charged me 17.5% VAT which I could have got back. It is an extra tax really which you can't avoid. However I certainly didn't pass it on to my customers.