This is a rant but bear with me.

Apart from the 100 Club (which counts as a 'national' event), as a general rule London's soul nights seem to be dead ducks. Discuss.

Maybe I'm going to the wrong events, but I'm getting dispirited going to both northern & "modern" soul events in London, which consist of:-

- 2 or 3 dozen punters sprinkled around a venue;

- only 2 or 3 people dancing (what's the point of going & not dancing?);

- zilch atmosphere.

In a city of 8 million, this is pathetic support. Are the reasons for this:-

Promoters & djs not advertising their events effectively or;

Too many events or;

Nobody's interested or;

Punters have got too many other pressures on their wallets & time or;

It's all done semi-deliberately to keep the scene 'underground'?

Promoters /djs seem to love arranging events & producing nice flyers but forget that the most important factor is atmosphere. Promoters ought to think seriously about merging their events with others of a similar kind. Better to have 20 half decent events a year than 50 dead ducks.

I think there's a serious problem in London now with this lack of numbers. It does nothing to encourage me to keep going or newcomers from joining in.

What's to be done?

   

Shocking, at this time in the morning too 

(Sorry Chrissy, I'm in a silly mood this morning!    )

Jamie x

link

Are you going to pay to get the coffee stains off my screen

Are you going to pay to get the coffee stains off my screen   

link

I just use my sleeve

Does get a bit sticky after a while though....

   

Shocking, at this time in the morning too 

(Sorry Chrissy, I'm in a silly mood this morning!    )

Jamie x

link

That's ok Jamie being royalty my quotes are always being taken out of context.

NOW GET BACK IN YOUR BOX AND BEHAVE!!

QOF

XX

That's ok Jamie being royalty my quotes are always being taken out of context.

NOW GET BACK IN YOUR BOX AND BEHAVE!!

QOF

XX

link

Oh, alright then.

Jamie x

Well I didn't have much luck on Wednesday night either

One bloke danced a bit and there was occasional clapping from around the corner, but not much else. Quite glad to get off by the end of the set to be honest.

And no there wasn't too much R'n'B either

link

I had a full floor all through my set... well i thought i did untill i realised that it was my reflection in the glass infront of the dj booth and where the galss curved there were multiples of me moving around

Hi Pete

Well son, your dreams have been answered. Booglaloosoul's monthly Motown extravaganza is on the 10th June. Rare and classic tunes played with a passion. If it's anything last last month they're still mopping the sweat off the walls, fantastic.

Personally I think the London scene is fab. Some clubs come, some go but there's still loads of passionate people putting their money where their records are and keeping it lively. 4th anniversary tomorrow night - must be doing something right or must be really stupid to put up with all this pain and heartache.

London soul - I love it!!!!!

Warren Boogaloo

link

Brilliant thanks Warren. It looks like at least three of us will still be in London.

I'm assuming it is at the usual place.

See you there.

Brilliant thanks Warren.  It looks like at least three of us will still be in London.

I'm assuming it is at the usual place.

See you there.

link

That makes cleggy sound very tempting

QOF

XX

Hey, I hear there's a do on in London tonight!!!!

Warren Boogaloo

Hey, I hear there's a do on in London tonight!!!!

Warren Boogaloo

link

Would that be this one then warren

Boogaloosoul's 4th Anniversary bash on Saturday 4th June promises to be one of the best.

Guest DJ's Rob Messer and Ady Pots join the regulars to bring you the best in Northern soul. Everything from rare exclusives to classic oldies played to a very enthusiastic crowd.

Free anniversary CD and record raffle on the night.

8pm til 1am

The Cellar Bar

King William 4th Pub and Hotel

155 Trafalgar Rd

Greenwich

SE10 8TN

Sorry can't make it, even if you played Linda Griner for me as got some serious handbagging to do tonight, but will be there in spirit.

QOF

XX

The very one. Linda and I will be in attendance and in memory of dear, dear missing soulies, I will ask everyone to hold hands, bow heads and reflect on past transgressions. They will then be asked to hold their hands high in the air to thank the Lord and shout 'Hallelujah for our free 4th anniversary CD'.

Warren Boogaloo

Would that be this one then warren

Boogaloosoul's 4th Anniversary bash on Saturday 4th June promises to be one of the best.

The very one. Linda and I will be in attendance and in memory of dear, dear missing soulies, I will ask everyone to hold hands, bow heads and reflect on past transgressions. They will then be asked to hold their hands high in the air to thank the Lord and shout 'Hallelujah for our free 4th anniversary CD'.

Warren Boogaloo

Pulling back to the thread if I may - On the few occasions I have escaped from la la land to attend london dos (can't always find a responsible adult to take me) I have found the music a good mix, the people really friendly (some of them a bit strange mind you) and the rail links from la la land are brilliant and run virtually through the night, in fact it is easier for me to get to London than some of the dos only 15-20 miles away, it usually comes down to the cost factor otherwise I would definately be there more often and guess it must be the same for a lot of other people.

Perhaps the rail companies should do soulie special tickets, or would that be what they now call OAP concessions?

QOF

XX

ps Warren look after Linda as I may escape some time soon and you will have to play her for me.

Capitol Soul Club DJs (resident and guests) included the following:

Irish Greg,Carl Fortnum,Alan H,Dave Frynn,Mick H,Kenny Burrell,Andy

Dyson,Ian Cunliffe,Ady Croasdell,Mick Smith,Pete Hulatt,keb Darge,Andy

Rix,Dave holt,Robbo,Paul Baldwin, Arthur Fenn,Tony Smith etc

etc

Hardly a line up of renowned RnB DJs.  I think some people hear three RnB records in an hour and decide that all they heard all night was RnB.

link

well said stuart........and also a good number of records defined by some as Northern are RnB...

well said stuart........and also a good number of records defined by some as Northern are RnB...

link

No, they are Northern Soul! (but only when it suits....)

Same with Doo-Wop..... Five Royales for instance.......

well said stuart........and also a good number of records defined by some as Northern are RnB...

link

Agree with you on that one Shania but the list of DJs has me asking Collectors or DJs We could all be great DJs if we had the dosh!!!

A bit p*ssed QOF

XX

PS ok getting back in my box now consider myself slapped on wrist and going to play my very cheap copy of The Showmen and I don't care if I get arrested for it, I like it and still in handbag mode.

hello Col

i play at the dome and my opinion is that it was 90% soul. yes there was a semi r&b set right at the end of the night but the thing is people ask for it. i know martin was there and absolutely loved the last set from jodie. we would really like to please all of the people all of the time but realically we all know that will never happen. in general the night has a very progressive feel to it, with the aim to be that unheard and underplayed tunes take precedence over the big guns. any feedback on the night is always greatly appreciated and i might add listened to. it certainly wasn't packed to the walls by any means but the night is getting better everytime imo and can only go from strength to strength, if you were there then i hope you had a good night (despite the r& and will be coming again in july

all the best

andy kempster

soul@hitchinfc, the dome

link

Appreciate your reply Andy. All things being equal I hope to be there in July.

Col

I think some people hear three RnB records in an hour and decide that all they heard all night was RnB.

link

Are you really thinking here......or just assuming?

Col.

Someone mentioned that a set I played recently was RnB heavy - I played 4 RnB tracks in an hour.  15% RnB.  None of it rockabilly/rock and roll (well, maybe the Leo Price one is a bit).  People danced.  They didn't to The Appreciations.  You can't blimmin' win sometimes! :angry:

link

Here's a little line of thought for you. People have paid there money to listen to Northern Soul. They have also travelled a long way & parked up their motor in a slightly worrying part of town.

Its Friday night and they're really up for it.

You start playing Leo Price & others.....people start getting a bit narked. Then you go back to playing soul records.....but you've lost the crowd.

Am I wide of the mark?

Col.

Agreed, I know that it's mainly the oldies which get me up to dance, but no bugger plays the one's I want to hear which is why I had a go at DJing myself, although it's something I won't be doing again because I can't stand the crap I have recieved from one or two die hard's who think it's just copying some other DJ who played them 30 odd years ago and that I don't have the brains to play something new

link

Every record that gets played, no matter who's playing it, will be 'new' to some and all 'ready known' to others.

I wonder what the artists who recorded these records would think about someone saying you can't play that because someone else played it once 30 years ago?

Cos somehow i don't think they made their records exclusively for certain people. Surely they were made for as many people as possible to get enjoyment from.

So what if someone played a record 30 years ago. They ain't playing it now. You are.

Of course there are exceptions, as with everything.

There are certain records that will always be attributed to a certain DJ. And rightly so.

And in that case i don't agree with other people to start playing it too. It's just simple respect.

But if that DJ is no longer around or not DJing any more - does that mean no one else can play that record?

I would like to think there aren't too many out there, stuck that far up their own arses, to think like that.

You stick with it girl !!

I agree with Mikey that the R&B played at the Dome last year didn't help the crowd and in general is much better for smaller clubs like Shake than gaffs with big dancefloors.

I also think that the standard of DJing now isn't great. People like Greg and Shifty are missed and though I enjoyed myself at the Dome on Friday I don't think many of the DJs pleased the crowd that was there. Far too much playing a record because they'd planned to play it beforehand and not enough sizing up the crowd and giving them what they want.

Lots of collectors don't make great DJs, which is fine at small scale dos where people are doing it for the love of it. Bigger dos are tough.

I find it tough to play new stuff in London nowadays, there's a definite need for a good mix of oldies, rarities and the odd collector's or personal favourite but ONLY once you've got the crowd on your side.

link

Some of the DJ's are the problem. I am from the north and we are becoming inundated with soul nights. I could go to a do, on virtually any night of the week, and the busiest ones have 100 maybe 150 people, the majority have a couple of dozen The Viaduct is a prime example, it used to attract 300 now if fifty go in it's a good night. What has gone wrong is that there are too many DJ's playing records THEY want to listen to. I can't count the number of times I've seen the DJ dancing around on stage to some obscure record that he thinks the next big thing and the dance floor is empty. I'm sorry to state the obvious DJ's, but we are paying you to entertain us, not yourselves. Play what we want to hear. Rant over.

thanks for the positve feedback Dave

all the best

Andy

link

R&B motown,tinky winky soul,rare soul,you can't please everyone the new Dome has just got it right.

Billy

Are you really thinking here......or just assuming?

Col.

link

Thinking Col. I've heard people condemn someone's set for being all RnB and looked at the the playlist and seen maybe four or five RnB records in an hour set. I've been stood next to someone looking out at a full dancefloor and hearing them say "this is crap, no one likes it, why do they play it?". In fact, I've said that myself a few times

Here's a little line of thought for you. People have paid there money to listen to Northern Soul. They have also travelled a long way & parked up their motor in a slightly worrying part of town.

Its Friday night and they're really up for it.

You start playing Leo Price & others.....people start getting a bit narked. Then you go back to playing soul records.....but you've lost the crowd.

Am I wide of the mark?

Col.

link

Yes, I think you are. For instance, at the night when this happened I played 15% RnB, was asked to do so and had people dance to it. Under your theory, if I go to a night and someone plays 15% modern soul, or 15% crossover, or 15% records I don't like, am I entitled to be pissed off? Given the fact that RnB has always been played (Mickie Champion, Jimmy Robins to name just two), will always be played, and is to the taste of a lot of people I just cannot see how even an RnB hater could sustain an argument that it should never be played.

End of the day nobody is entitled to expect DJs to play 100% records that they like. Unless they like every record in genre ever.

Edited June 6, 200519 yr by Stuart T

Agree with you on that one Shania but the list of DJs has me asking Collectors or DJs  We could all be great DJs if we had the dosh!!!

A bit p*ssed QOF

XX

link

Shania? You must have been pissed, Martin looks nothing like Sharnya if that is who you mean!

Colectors and DJs in many cases I'd imagine. I take it you mention "collectors" as a slight. Why are collectors so reviled by some people nowadays?

On that list of DJs there are quite a few who I don't imagine to be rolling in it. Some I know about their finances. They have collected records over a long period, particularly before the recent hyper inflation. Traded records to fund their collections. Bought unknown records which have become massive later, whether after plays by them or someone else (and then expensive). I think you're doing these people a massive disservice with that comment.

We could all be great DJs if we had the dosh!!!

link

QOF - Equally there are plenty of people with dosh falling out of their pockets who are not great DJ's. There are other ingredients required too - ability to read the crowd, taste, passion etc.

To quote Ady

"Alan H has probably got it right, he's knocked it on the head when it dragged a bit, pursued a few other interests and passions, goes out when he wants to, not when he feels he should, and will no doubt be back with a vengeance when he gets the bug again. Meanwhile other nutters like some of us will keep things going and try a few new angles."

Like Alan H we havent been to as many do's this year as we would like to, this is a combination of many things, there seem to be so many to go to, and some of them clash, we have done Scenesville, Crossfire 100 NCS and a few others, but it also comes down to the fact we have other interests and jobs that are time consuming where we have to be adult mature and responsible, long gone are the days of going out three or four nights a week and hiding behind my desk because I was knackered, also the recovery rate doesnt seem to be what it used to be!! Cant think why!!

We will be at Cleethorpes in force holding up the Aussie flag and dancing to RnB and all sorts of other things that we like, dont tell anyone but have even been known to visit the maodern room as has Al H, but only at Cleggy!! ha ha

Really the best thing to do is support the nutters who keep things going where and when you can and keep on dancing

Ozy Duncan and Stephanie

Shania? You must have been pissed, Martin looks nothing like Sharnya if that is who you mean!

Colectors and DJs in many cases I'd imagine.  I take it you mention "collectors" as a slight.  Why are collectors so reviled by some people nowadays? 

On that list of DJs there are quite a few who I don't imagine to be rolling in it.  Some I know about their finances.  They have collected records over a long period, particularly before the recent hyper inflation.  Traded records to fund their collections.  Bought unknown records which have become massive later, whether after plays by them or someone else (and then expensive).  I think you're doing these people a massive disservice with that comment.

link

Ouuuch did I really say that - ought to have a breatherliser on my puter. Think I was a bit sore about sumfink sorry. Agree with you that it takes more than loads of dosh to make a good DJ, and knowing your crowd is probably one of the most improtant.

QOF

XX

Shania? You must have been pissed, Martin looks nothing like Sharnya if that is who you mean!

link

It's a joke, blame Ken he started it

QOF

XX

QOF - Equally there are plenty of people with dosh falling out of their pockets who are not great DJ's. There are other ingredients required too - ability to read the crowd, taste,  passion etc.

link

Appollogeeeees to you Steve, you are of course right, I was having a bit of a moment when i wrote it. please read my reply to stuart and forgive me for being stupid.

QOF

XX

Ouuuch did I really say that - ought to have a breatherliser on my puter.  Think I was a bit sore about sumfink sorry.  Agree with you that it takes more than loads of dosh to make a good DJ,  and knowing your crowd is probably one of the most improtant.

QOF

XX

link

i think there is nothing better than finding a nice cheap record that is absolutely brilliant, it doesn't matter that it hasn't cost £500 especially as, lets face it, quite a lot of the really expensive records are not really that great

andy k

Out of interest, there's a new monthly London event starting in August. Resident DJs Butch, Keb Darge, Ian Wright and Me.

So I for one don't think London soul events are "dead ducks" otherwise we wouldn't be putting the event on. I just think there may be a little bit of pessimism amongst the punters because they may be a little fed up with the quality on offer? Just my opinion.

Flyers and website should be on the streets next week...

Shameless plug over.

What sort of music will it be bruv?

QOF - Equally there are plenty of people with dosh falling out of their pockets who are not great DJ's. There are other ingredients required too - ability to read the crowd, taste,  passion etc.

link

Agreed! you don't need plenty of money either...it just helps. Plenty of good cheap records better than the majority of the expensive ones IMO. I've heard some of the worst sets with records worth a fortune from so called DJ's who haven't a clue how to read the floor or make the set flow. It's just the fact they have a box of expensive records that got them up there.

Edited June 8, 200519 yr by chalky

What sort of music will it be bruv?

link

Quality soul, no shite. Naar wot I mean, sis!

Edited June 9, 200519 yr by James Trouble

Quality soul, no shite. Naar wot I mean, sis!

link

Yep!!!another dead duck!

Yep!!!another dead duck!

link

Shat it Kenny, or you'll find out why my name is Trouble.

Appollogeeeees to you Steve, you are of course right, I was having a bit of a  moment when i wrote it.  please read my reply to stuart and forgive me for being stupid.  

QOF

XX

link

Absolutely cool Gal ! No need for apologies or stuff like that.

you know wot, a month or two ago i would have agreed with a lot of the above comments - but now i think it's all bollocks

since then, i've been to some brilliant nights in london - boogaloo aniversary was absolutely fantastic night (and kev's birthday do at the previous boogaloo tamla night was bloody great too - if you haven't been to boogaloo, get yer arse in gear!) and the last dome was a top night

right venue, crowd and music and it will work

personally, i think it's perhaps good to have laid some of the old dinosaurs to rest - times have changed down here, i think that people aren't interested in mouldy-oldie nights like those which are popular in the north (eg: togetherness or these stupid wigan revival nights)

i'm really lookin forward to the new night in shoreditch shamelessly plugged by mr trubs above

build it and they will come

personally, i think it's perhaps good to have laid some of the old dinosaurs to rest - times have changed down here, i think that people aren't interested in mouldy-oldie nights like those which are popular in the north (eg: togetherness or these stupid wigan revival nights)

build it and they will come

link

On the contrary, I think people in London/SE are demanding a lot more oldies. Warren's Boogaloo night is a good example, quite successful particularly for a non central night but it has to play almost 100% oldies to achieve that. Times have changed, used to be a lot less demand for oldies. I reckon its a shame but we have to live with that. I still stick as many lesser knowns in a set as I think I can get away with, but you can go too far, its a fine line. I like doing the frist hour at SHS because I can play what I like.

On the contrary, I think people in London/SE are demanding a lot more oldies.  Warren's Boogaloo night is a good example, quite successful particularly for a non central night but it has to play almost 100% oldies to achieve that.  Times have changed, used to be a lot less demand for oldies.  I reckon its a shame but we have to live with that.  I still stick as many lesser knowns in a set as I think I can get away with, but you can go too far, its a fine line.  I like doing the frist hour at SHS because I can play what I like.

link

yeah, you're not wrong - maybe i should have said tired, overplayed oldies

also, spose i'm a bit of a hypocrite cos i like to hear oldies i haven't heard for a long time, eg: enjoyed hearing mel britt at sitc simply cos i hadn't heard it for god knows how many years - used to be sick of hearing it!

On the contrary, I think people in London/SE are demanding a lot more oldies. 

link

hang on.......is there anywhere of any significance outside of london in the SE anyway?

Fair few dos in central/east london these days.

Don't think I've ever seen one do in West London.

Some sort of soul vacuum?

hang on.......is there anywhere of any significance outside of london in the SE anyway?

link

The hop fields of Kent, essential in the production of beer. Other than that, no.

On the contrary, I think people in London/SE are demanding a lot more oldies.  Warren's Boogaloo night is a good example, quite successful particularly for a non central night but it has to play almost 100% oldies to achieve that.  Times have changed, used to be a lot less demand for oldies.  I reckon its a shame but we have to live with that.  I still stick as many lesser knowns in a set as I think I can get away with, but you can go too far, its a fine line.  I like doing the frist hour at SHS because I can play what I like.

link

yeah, you're not wrong - maybe i should have said tired, overplayed oldies

also, spose i'm a bit of a hypocrite cos i like to hear oldies i haven't heard for a long time, eg: enjoyed hearing mel britt at sitc simply cos i hadn't heard it for god knows how many years - used to be sick of hearing it!

link

There are as many venues down south playing so called tired and over played oldies as there are up t'north.

And as for Mel Britt....sick of hearing it wherever in the country it's played. As good as it is, it is one example of a tired overplayed oldie IMHO.

Fair few dos in central/east london these days.

Don't think I've ever seen one do in West London.

Some sort of soul vacuum?

link

There used to be plenty years ago.

I used to live in Hayes and remember does in Southall, Ealing, Kingston (even the Adam & Eye in Hayes!) sure there was more but cant remember at the moment!

I agree there doesnt seem to be many nowadays, not sure why, or am I wrong?

Agreed, I know that it's mainly the oldies which get me up to dance, but no bugger plays the one's I want to hear which is why I had a go at DJing myself, although it's something I won't be doing again because I can't stand the crap I have recieved from one or two die hard's who think it's just copying some other DJ who played them 30 odd years ago and that I don't have the brains to play something new

link

Hey Janine dont listen to these new age hippies, keep playing the old stuff, its what i love to hear everytime, maybe these dick heads that criticize you should find another scene, just stay true to what you believe in

Hey Janine dont listen to these new age hippies, keep playing the old stuff, its what i love to hear everytime, maybe these dick heads that criticize you should find another scene, just stay true to what you believe in 

link

You'd have thought the hippies would have welcomed a bit of recycling.

I find it tough to play new stuff in London nowadays, there's a definite need for a good mix of oldies, rarities and the odd collector's or personal favourite but ONLY once you've got the crowd on your side.

link

..Re the new material-perhaps its 'hard to play' because its not particularly good, as far as the crowd (or some of them) are concerned...I recall a thread concerning tracks that were 'played to death'

this got me thinking-if its Good Soul with Good Production Values, a piece of Musical Art, in the faithful's eyes, how can it be played to death?; A tracks sheer class will mean that it will live on, and always want to be heard, by the faithful...

P.S.-can I come and do an hour, at the 100 Club???

..Re the new material-perhaps its 'hard to play' because its not particularly good, as far as the crowd (or some of them) are concerned...I recall a thread concerning tracks that were 'played to death'

this got me thinking-if its Good Soul with Good Production Values, a piece of Musical Art, in the faithful's eyes, how can it be played to death?; A tracks sheer class will mean that it will live on, and always want to be heard, by the faithful...

P.S.-can I come and do an hour, at the 100 Club???

link

of course something can be played to death. A great record does live forever but it needs a rest now and again imo. The same with fish and chips....i love em but not every night mate.

Shane

There used to be plenty years ago.

I used to live in Hayes and remember does in Southall, Ealing, Kingston (even the Adam & Eye in Hayes!) sure there was more but cant remember at the moment!

I agree there doesnt seem to be many nowadays, not sure why, or am I wrong?

link

not sure if theres ever been a true soul nite over this way.

the ones up the a&E and kingston were more scooter/mod nites.bit like the bush.

dont recal soul nites in southall but if you go back to around 1980 there was a regular scooter nite in a pub down there.

theres been a few in local pubs/winebars over the last couple of years but never ventured to any of em.

nearest thing now is the do in chalfont(If its still going).

As a complete newcomer to the Northern scene, I think there are some cracking nights in London, with something on almost every week-end.

Some nights dont do very much to encourage the uninitiated, which may account for the low numbers (they might like it that way) and some DJ's seem hellbent on either playing only to please themselves or their small group of friends.

I should say that also I have only met friendly people at the do's, with most Soulie's being readily approachable.

Luckily for me, I dont really know what should and shouldnt be played so I operate on (somewhat nievely for the Soul scene it would appear) if a record is good I like it and if it isnt, I dont.

I also dont go out expecting to like everything played, which also helps (I still remember nights out in Plymouth getting excited because one record I liked was played the entire evening).

As I said above I think the London scene is good, with thousands of great sounds out there being played (oldies my preference)

Dave