Tony Clarke - Landslide - Chess - Question About This One

[Pete S]

Not convinced Stereo was such a new craze in '67. Westrex (WS) pioneered (I think) the Mercury System (MS) in 1958.

I'd hazard a guess that the clue is in the fact that it has a CK mark in the run-out groove. Which to me would mean that it had more to do with the CHECKER process (pressing plant, etc). His previous release, "The Entertainer" had been a major hit on the Billboard chart and Chess/Checker/Cadet could have assumed that Landslide would do the same. Therefore, having the track mastered/plated and pressed up North, down South, East Coast and West.

Wouldn't surprise me if there where other run-out variations that have a similar look and feel. Depending on how many they binned.!!

[Removes Grandfathers anorak]

No it wasn't new but it wasn't popular and widespread until the end of the decade, for singles I mean.

[Blunny]

No it wasn't new but it wasn't popular and widespread until the end of the decade, for singles I mean.

No, I wouldn't disagree with that. Was just pointing out that I wouldn't have thought that Stereo was the reason that they would decide to do another run on the mastering/presses. More likely that they thought it would go big beforehand and had multiple runs done nationally. Giving rise to the possibility that it might well be mastered and pressed in Stereo. Assuming of course that the recording was done in Stereo, which it must have been. Checker and Cadet had already released Stereo singles by then.

Of course this could all be b*llocks, but it makes sense to me !!

Edited February 7, 2015 by pikeys dog
swearing - work filters

[Steve Edgar]

Not convinced Stereo was such a new craze in '67. Westrex (WS) pioneered (I think) the Mercury System (MS) in 1958.

I'd hazard a guess that the clue is in the fact that it has a CK mark in the run-out groove. Which to me would mean that it had more to do with the CHECKER process (pressing plant, etc). His previous release, "The Entertainer" had been a major hit on the Billboard chart and Chess/Checker/Cadet could have assumed that Landslide would do the same. Therefore, having the track mastered/plated and pressed up North, down South, East Coast and West.

Wouldn't surprise me if there where other run-out variations that have a similar look and feel. Depending on how many they binned.!!

[Removes Grandfathers anorak]

Stereo 45's would've been fairly new tho wouldn't they? Is it right that Berry Gordy didn't release a stereo 45 till aug 1968 with Bobby Taylor's "Malinda"?

steve

[Ian Dewhirst]

Actually I think the answer's fairly simple. It's a legitimate re-press by Chess from the early 70's ('73 ish) and it was re-mastered in stereo along with the normal practises of the time. Chess were still a going concern at this point and would have probably happily taken an order for a few thousand from the UK. This also makes sense since it was on Soulbowl's list for £1 at the time and stocked around the country at most places for 75p-£1 on a brand new 'old' Chess label. I remember us talking about it at the time and saying how could such a great record lay undiscovered until the 70's and then thousands turn up! The re-presses were good enough to fool anybody which makes sense 'cos they'd have used old label stock on the re-press.

Chess was one of the more 'connected' labels with the U.K. - don't forget that they had a million-selling No.1 record at the end of 1972 with Chuck Berry's "My Ding-A-Ling" which was actually recorded in England, in Coventry no less, so this was a company that knew what was going on in the UK.

The UK issue followed the U.S. repress the following year in '74, so they effectively creamed it twice!

Ian D

Edited February 15, 2010 by Ian Dewhirst

[Pete S]

Actually I think the answer's fairly simple. It's a legitimate re-press by Chess from the early 70's ('73 ish) and it was re-mastered in stereo along with the normal practises of the time. Chess were still a going concern at this point and would have probably happily taken an order for a few thousand from the UK. This also makes sense since it was on Soulbowl's list for £1 at the time and stocked around the country at most places for 75p-£1 on a brand new 'old' Chess label. I remember us talking about it at the time and saying how could such a great record lay undiscovered until the 70's and then thousands turn up! The re-presses were good enough to fool anybody which makes sense 'cos they'd have used old label stock on the re-press.

Chess was one of the more 'connected' labels with the U.K. - don't forget that they had a million-selling No.1 record at the end of 1972 with Chuck Berry's "My Ding-A-Ling" which was actually recorded in England, in Coventry no less, so this was a company that knew what was going on in the UK.

The UK issue followed the U.S. repress the following year in '74, so they effectively creamed it twice!

Ian D

Well done Ian, great work, another mystery put to bed.

Apart from one thing; where's all the copies???

[Shinehead]

Actually I think the answer's fairly simple. It's a legitimate re-press by Chess from the early 70's ('73 ish) and it was re-mastered in stereo along with the normal practises of the time. Chess were still a going concern at this point and would have probably happily taken an order for a few thousand from the UK. This also makes sense since it was on Soulbowl's list for £1 at the time and stocked around the country at most places for 75p-£1 on a brand new 'old' Chess label. I remember us talking about it at the time and saying how could such a great record lay undiscovered until the 70's and then thousands turn up! The re-presses were good enough to fool anybody which makes sense 'cos they'd have used old label stock on the re-press.

Chess was one of the more 'connected' labels with the U.K. - don't forget that they had a million-selling No.1 record at the end of 1972 with Chuck Berry's "My Ding-A-Ling" which was actually recorded in England, in Coventry no less, so this was a company that knew what was going on in the UK.

The UK issue followed the U.S. repress the following year in '74, so they effectively creamed it twice!

Ian D

I agree as i replied earlier never thought my copy was a original , bought it from local record shop .

[Ian Dewhirst]

Well done Ian, great work, another mystery put to bed.

Apart from one thing; where's all the copies???

LOL, I guess they're tucked away in a couple of thousand collections Pete. It immediately got devalued as an original when it appeared on Soulbowl for a quid (or was it 75p) in the early 70's - I'm sure someone has a copy of the Soulbowl lists from that time to confirm, but I'm pretty sure any of the oldies on here will confirm that it was a 75p record from '73-'76 at least, so yes, there are 1000's out there but like many of the records from that era they're probably in the garage, up in the loft or it's just simply one of those records that it's not worth anyone getting rid of.......

Also looking at those scans that Roger put up earlier in the thread, it seems to me that the 'real' original is the lighter blue on the left and the 70's repress is the one the right. Anyone concurr?

Ian D

[Des Crombie]

Cheers Roger...run off details on this one are:

CK 1979 A

14784

then what looks like SW if looking from the label outwards, the W joins the S to make it look like it's saying STU!

After reading this thread I had a feeling that I also had a stereo copy. So after searching through boxes of 45's I finally found it and my suspicions were correct. I have a stereo copy with the same run off details as yours Pete. Can't remember where I got it from as have had it for years. Label looks and feels similar to other Chess records I have. Surprised if it is a re-issue that it ain't been spotted until now. Not saying it isn't a re-issue but it would be good to definitely know.

[Guest Bogue]

After reading this thread I had a feeling that I also had a stereo copy. So after searching through boxes of 45's I finally found it and my suspicions were correct. I have a stereo copy with the same run off details as yours Pete. Can't remember where I got it from as have had it for years. Label looks and feels similar to other Chess records I have. Surprised if it is a re-issue that it ain't been spotted until now. Not saying it isn't a re-issue but it would be good to definitely know.

I wonder if it probably was, but I guess 'Landslide' had slipped out of vogue after the mid 70's & so it wouldn't have made many ripples.

Back to the similarity with the Soulful Strings 45...i'm almost certain that was documented similar to how Ian D explains in an earlier JM guide (pos 2 ago), but there is nothing in the present one or the boot guide either.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Bogue

[Des Crombie]

I wonder if it probably was, but I guess 'Landslide' had slipped out of vogue after the mid 70's & so it wouldn't have made many ripples.

Back to the similarity with the Soulful Strings 45...i'm almost certain that was documented similar to how Ian D explains in an earlier JM guide (pos 2 ago), but there is nothing in the present one or the boot guide either.

I think you are most likely correct, unfortunately I'm too young to remember the 70's. Anyone who was around back then remember anything about this? After scratching my head I think I may have got my copy from a local shop in the late 80's, which makes me more suspicious that it isn't an original. If there are loads of them out there then that would make sense that its a re-issue. So are there loads out there? Surprised the boot guide doesn't have anything on it.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Dezzie Boy

[Pete S]

LOL, I guess they're tucked away in a couple of thousand collections Pete. It immediately got devalued as an original when it appeared on Soulbowl for a quid (or was it 75p) in the early 70's - I'm sure someone has a copy of the Soulbowl lists from that time to confirm, but I'm pretty sure any of the oldies on here will confirm that it was a 75p record from '73-'76 at least, so yes, there are 1000's out there but like many of the records from that era they're probably in the garage, up in the loft or it's just simply one of those records that it's not worth anyone getting rid of.......

Also looking at those scans that Roger put up earlier in the thread, it seems to me that the 'real' original is the lighter blue on the left and the 70's repress is the one the right. Anyone concurr?

Ian D

No because I'd already mentioned that mine is the same as the one on the left!

[Ian Dewhirst]

No because I'd already mentioned that mine is the same as the one on the left!

Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. In which case, back to square one then........namely, how on earth could you have a stereo copy from 1967!

Ian D

[Pete S]

Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. In which case, back to square one then........namely, how on earth could you have a stereo copy from 1967!

Ian D

Don't have a camera handy, missus took it darn sarf, but here is a link to the ebay listing where I got it from, that does feature a scan of the actual record

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220549215119&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

[Sebastian]

Don't have a camera handy, missus took it darn sarf, but here is a link to the ebay listing where I got it from, that does feature a scan of the actual record

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

And here it is in case it disappears from eBay:

[Pete S]

And here it is in case it disappears from eBay:

As you can see, I won this for £11, I generally sell it for £25/£30, I had someone offer me some records last week and when I told him what I sell it for he basically called me a liar and 'knew' that it was £75 on 'top' dealers sites.

[Sean Hampsey]

Don't have a camera handy, missus took it darn sarf, but here is a link to the ebay listing where I got it from, that does feature a scan of the actual record

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

That looks to me just like the Repress that was knocking about around 73/74 Pete.

I picked mine up for about 0.75p back then from my local record shop.

Don't know if its Stereo though, but I'd imagine it is.

Sean

[Pete S]

That looks to me just like the Repress that was knocking about around 73/74 Pete.

Yes but it also looks identical to the original Sean, how is that different from the original Roger posted up?

[45cellar]

Cheers Roger...run off details on this one are:

CK 1979 A

14784

then what looks like SW if looking from the label outwards, the W joins the S to make it look like it's saying STU!

And here it is in case it disappears from eBay:

Just posted again for easier comparison against Petes copy.

My copies are BOTH Vinyl

TM1769 (With a strange @ type matrix mark scratched in)

14784 MW

Edited February 16, 2010 by 45cellar

[Pete S]

Just posted again for easier comparison against Petes copy.

My copies are BOTH Vinyl

TM1769 (With a strange @ type matrix mark scratched in)

14784 MW

Just to reiterate, the one I'm talking about is the light blue one, the photo looks darker but it is light blue.

[Ian Dewhirst]

And here it is in case it disappears from eBay:

That's the repress by the looks of it.

Ian D

[Guest Dante]

That's the repress by the looks of it.

Ian D

The only difference with the image in the eBay auction and the one Roger posted is that the latter has slightly thicker letters. The blue background seems a bit deeper, yet the credits/catalog number are a bit thinner...

To my eyes, anyway.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Dante

[Pete S]

That's the repress by the looks of it.

Ian D

So, is Roger's left-hand scan a repress because it's identical to that one!

[Pete S]

Anyway, being an expert in these sort of things (ahem) I've come to the conclusion that it is in fact a previously unacknowledged repress for the simple fact that the vinyl is pitted. Thank you.

[Sean Hampsey]

So, is Roger's left-hand scan a repress because it's identical to that one!

If I'd seen Rogers (Left Hand side one) in a Sales Box I'd have immediately thought it was the early 70's Repress, Pete.

You're right, they do look very similar.

Roger, can you recall, did the Left Hand side one come from Boylans?

Sean

[Ian Dewhirst]

So, is Roger's left-hand scan a repress because it's identical to that one!

Well it's gotta be if it's stereo hasn't it?

It's a moot point really 'cos it seems it's virtually impossible to tell the repress from the original unless you're holding 'em in your hands and even then it would be a challenge I reckon.....

Ian D

[Northernguy]

Here is wax details and scans of both

Stereo CK1979A 14784 MS

Mono TM1769 14784 MW

Alan

[Pete S]

Right, so what we are saying now is, that all of the lighter blue ones are represses - yes?

[Guest Dante]

Right, so what we are saying now is, that all of the lighter blue ones are represses - yes?

Well, in Alan's post the mono copy looks lighter thant the stereo copy.

[Pete S]

Well, in Alan's post the mono copy looks lighter thant the stereo copy.

But the ebay photo of the stereo one is darker than in real life!

Let me see if I can scan it.

[Pete S]

I've made it slightly big just in case you can read the deadwax markings

[45cellar]

If I'd seen Rogers (Left Hand side one) in a Sales Box I'd have immediately thought it was the early 70's Repress, Pete.

You're right, they do look very similar.

Roger, can you recall, did the Left Hand side one come from Boylans?

Sean

Hi Sean

One was Indeed from Boylans & The Other from Soul Bowl.

Just trying to remember which.

[Guest Dante]

I've made it slightly big just in case you can read the deadwax markings

Yup, that looks way lighter.

But we must asume this could've happened to other pics/scans. So there's no definitive answer with such little differnece, I'm afraid.

[45cellar]

Right, so what we are saying now is, that all of the lighter blue ones are represses - yes?

I have been checking other releases in my collection.

Here's a STYRENE Light Blue from a second hand shop in the 70's, so Origin before that (Unsure)

The thing is it has a ZTSC121449 / ZTSC121450 but scratched out ZTSC121449 / ZTSC121450 in the Deadwax.

Just wondering if the ZTSC number Could be Identified as a Date.

Edited February 16, 2010 by 45cellar

[Sean Hampsey]

Hi Sean

One was Indeed from Boylans & The Other from Soul Bowl.

Just trying to remember which.

I'd have put money on the left hand side one being from Boylans, Roger and the Right Hand side one coming from Soul Bowl.

My copy came from Boylans too, Identical to the one on the left.

Good to see you back mate.

Sean

[Sebastian]

The thing is it has a ZTSC121449 / ZTSC121450 but scratched out ZTSC121449 / ZTSC121450 in the Deadwax.

Just wondering if the ZTSC number Could be Identified as a Date.

That ZTSC number is from 1966.

[45cellar]

That ZTSC number is from 1966.

Thanks Sebastian.

Not sure why this ZTSC number crossed out,

or whether it appears with earlier Chess Label for this release.

[Blunny]

Thanks Sebastian.

Not sure why this ZTSC number crossed out,

or whether it appears with earlier Chess Label for this release.

Yeh, the Billy Stewart was pressed on the earlier black label.... https://cgi.ebay.co.u...44708031&_rdc=1

Edit: Looks as though it's etched in though on that photo (having looked again).

So we have established that Pete's Tony Clarke is a 1st Reissue Stereo Original Boot then

Great this here Northern Soul record collecting innit?

Edited February 16, 2010 by Blunny

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

Well done Ian, great work, another mystery put to bed.

Apart from one thing; where's all the copies???

Have a word with Mick Smith, almost sure it was one of his discoveries Pete.He may have some info on it. The intro to this is second to none.

[45cellar]

Yeh, the Billy Stewart was pressed on the earlier black label.... https://cgi.ebay.co.u...44708031&_rdc=1

So we have established that Pete's Tony Clarke is a 1st Reissue Stereo Original Boot then

Great this here Northern Soul record collecting innit?

Just wondering if any have ZTSC Stamp & the earlier black label.

(I'm expecting there to be, or else what is a ZTSC (Dated 1966) Doing on a Light Blue Chess.

My copy of Chess 1966 Summertime has the Light Blue Label & Styrene, which is thought to be 70's.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Petes copy is also Styrene

(Edited, Petes Copy is Vinyl)

I'm trying to establish the Date for Petes copy

by Looking at other releases on the Chess Label.

Edited February 16, 2010 by 45cellar

[Anoraks Corner]

Tangent: Is there a red/yellow label release for 'Landslide'?

I was offered a decent bunch of early Chess/Checker 45's this past weekend, and x10 were on the lovely looking red/yellow label design (mostly West Coast)...artists included Jan Bradley, Billy Stewart, Tony Clarke, Mitty Collier, Corsairs, Roosevelt Nettles, Eddie Bo...dead nice looking...plus there were some other earlier releases up for grabs from Harvey, Vibrations, Billy Miranda and Chuck Berry etc...I nice little collection! (If anyone is interested drop me a PM as they may still be available.)

[45cellar]

Tangent: Is there a red/yellow label release for 'Landslide'?

I was offered a decent bunch of early Chess/Checker 45's this past weekend, and x10 were on the lovely looking red/yellow label design (mostly West Coast)...artists included Jan Bradley, Billy Stewart, Tony Clarke, Mitty Collier, Corsairs, Roosevelt Nettles, Eddie Bo...dead nice looking...plus there were some other earlier releases up for grabs from Harvey, Vibrations, Billy Miranda and Chuck Berry etc...I nice little collection! (If anyone is interested drop me a PM as they may still be available.)

That's a point

Thinking about the White DEMO for "Landslide"

Does that mean an Earlier Stock Copy also Exists with either Design below.

Or were the Blue Stock Copies & White DEMO caught up in a period of Design Change, and released around the same time.

Edited February 16, 2010 by 45cellar

[Sean Hampsey]

Tangent: Is there a red/yellow label release for 'Landslide'?

I was offered a decent bunch of early Chess/Checker 45's this past weekend, and x10 were on the lovely looking red/yellow label design (mostly West Coast)...artists included Jan Bradley, Billy Stewart, Tony Clarke, Mitty Collier, Corsairs, Roosevelt Nettles, Eddie Bo...dead nice looking...plus there were some other earlier releases up for grabs from Harvey, Vibrations, Billy Miranda and Chuck Berry etc...I nice little collection! (If anyone is interested drop me a PM as they may still be available.)

I have Tony Clarke's "The Entertainer" on Red/Yellow, Dave, but don't believe Landslide ever appeared on that logostyle.

Sean

[Pete S]

Petes copy is also Styrene

Not mine, it's vinyl...

[45cellar]

Not mine, it's vinyl...

Sorry Pete, (Must have had a Senior Moment there, I have edited Post)

[macca]

Fascinating. Keep up the detective work. Those red, yellow and black designs look decidedly pervy.

[Guest Gogs]

i like the older style label

[Pete S]

Fascinating. Keep up the detective work. Those red, yellow and black designs look decidedly pervy.

What about this blank one then...scrummy!

[Guest Bogue]

I was reading up on the Chess story earlier & LP's wise it appears to indicate that there were no stereo issues before 66 ! Wasn't Landslide a 65 release? which I would say is a good bit of evidence for us who think it's a re-issue ?

[Pete S]

I was reading up on the Chess story earlier & LP's wise it appears to indicate that there were no stereo issues before 66 ! Wasn't Landslide a 65 release? which I would say is a good bit of evidence for us who think it's a re-issue ?

No it's from 1967 mate. Honest.

[Guest Bogue]

No it's from 1967 mate. Honest.

Then may I retract my evidence M'lord?

It's down as 65 in the discography I was reading...but thinking about it the numbers don't follow.

I was looking through my Little Milton 45's on Checker earlier too & there are at least 3 from around 67 that were recorded in 'Concept 12' which were deemed playable on mono or stereo...so they were experementing around that time I guess

I still reckon it's a re-issue though