Hi

First of all I should say that I am a complete newbie at collecting rare soul vinyl so I have come here for some advice.

I have been a mainstream DJ since the mid 70's and until a few years ago, only enjoyed Northern Soul from a fleeting distance. I am currently an attending member of my local Northern Soul Club and in the middle of a huge learning curve where the music is concerned. I have a huge desire to DJ in the scene one day in the future.

I am a little reluctant to ask this next question as I just found the thread regarding playing cd's at gigs ( wow that is a record breaking thread ).

I would like to know what the score is playing re-released or re-issued vinyl at Northern gigs. Is is heavily frowned upon, Is it ok as long as it makes up a very small part of an original collection of vinyl carried to a gig, does it depend on what the track is etc.

I do have a desire to do this the right way. So if it's originals I need then I shall search for them. I went into Beatin Rhythm in Manchester last week and I was sold some tunes on 'Soul City' label. I asked the salesman if these would be acceptable to play and he says yes because it's an original label that is back in business again. Is this true?

So there you have it in a nutshell. I am a poorly paid Casualty Nurse at a busy Manchester hospital. If you have any original vinyl singles that you could part with for a reasonable sum I would be really interested. Buying one single a week at £20 to £30 amounts to 52 records a year. I do appreciate that really is a modest sum considering the prices some stuff goes for but that's all I got.

If you have anything within my budget and you want to help get my collection started then I would appreciate an email at lordsandor@gmail.com

Regards

Pete

PS Does Frank Popps / Breakaway on Expansion label count as one that can be played no problem?

Hi Peter H,has to be an original for me mate, i'm no DJ (but i think you'll get a full on response from those on this forum that are) not certain the Frank Popps originally came out on Expansion, infact i'm certain it didn't.

If you do a search i think the answer to your Soul City question has been discussed at some length (in an earlier post). There are plenty of outstanding tunes out there that will not cripple your bank account, think you have to believe in a record to want to play it. Get out and about , and look through all the dealers boxes ( usually someone has a facility to play a track on...vestrax portable.etc, ) plenty of lists to if you want them, mail order and e-mail to.

Brett

Hi Peter

I have to agree with Brett on this one and you will discover the majority will agree too. I think the best advice you could get would be tips on 45s priced around the £10 mark. There are plenty of good records at this price. I will start with a few great cheap 45s and I am sure fellow soul-sourcers can add accordingly:

Juanita Williams 'Baby Boy' Golden World

J.J. Barnes 'Real Humdinger Ric Tic

Gene Chandler 'Nothing can stop me' Constellation

Also many of the Jackie Wilson 45s on Brunswick are great cheapies.

Check out the sellers with portable players at events and ask them to recommend some cheap buys.

Good luck

Shane

I don't know if you like 70's kinda music but if you do... here are a couple

of nice records that you can find quite cheap (-£30):

Jeff Perry - Love Don't Come No Stronger [Arista]

Edwin Starr - Running Back And Forth [Gordy] (B-side to Time)

Roger Troy - Don't Put The Blame On Me Baby [RCA]

Winfield Parker - I Wanna Be With You [P&L]

O.C. Smith - I'm Your Man [Columbia]

// Kristoffer

Seconded on Juanita Williams, great tune, play it out whenever I get the chance. I think Expansion is the only 7" release of Breakaway...

Some smaller venues are ok about DJs playing reissues, but in general it's originals.. and as people have said here and in other threads, there's plenty of originals to be found for reasonable prices, and searching them out is half the fun!

Try Manship's car boot section (link from main page) for stuff that's not quite in mint condition or has label damage if you don't mind that - I've got quite a bit from there and it's all been good enough quality.

There are two ways to break into DJ'ing on the northern scene, firstly you can do it the long and hard way, build a collection, build a reputation at local club soul nights and in time you will be invited to take the next step on the bigger stages or you can buy your way in and spend a fortune on records which often other people have made popular, this seems to be noticed by certain promoters who think you have to spend big to become a DJ and don't forget the northern DJ thing has always been a closed shop certainly almost impossible to crack or break into in the old days, possibly eaiser to do now but remember DJ's should be booked on merrit, quality of collection, entertainment value etc. ............??????? However many of this type of DJ's have come and gone over the years so perhaps the best way is to serve your time and wait until the invitation comes.

As for re issue/second issues etc. being used by national or local DJ's, i can't really comment on this point but take it from someone who knows you get a lot more respect and bookings if you do it the original way, and as already mentioned there are some wonderful cheaper records to be sourced which could be played.

But often the DJ's who get the bookings, respect etc. are the ones with the best records, how you judge that is difficult but if you hold what is considered to be the big heavyweight tunes then you are more likley to get more DJ bookings.

It's fair to say that the likes of Mick H, Butch, Andy Dyson, Bob Hinsley, Carl Willingham, Keith Money, Mick Smith, Ady Croasdell, Roger Banks,Tim Brown, Ginger Taylor, Kenny Burrell, Soul Sam and myself ( i can include myself now as i'm stepping down now ) and several others are considered some of the top boys who spin the tunes on the scene, why? for a number of reasons two in particular either/and they are inovators of the music i.e they try and keep it fresh and move it forward and the records are without question originals whatever the value of a record.

DJ'ing on this scene is very competative as often we are chasing the same or similar records, but also it's about having fun and to enjoy what you are doing.

I wish you well in what you do but it takes a little luck and sometimes a huge investment not just financial but you have to invest the heart, soul and passion, have a good ear for a tune and you a half way there.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

a couple of really good cheap records that spring to mind is

lorrain randolf keep coming back for more on jet stream £15/20

you wont find better than that for any less

noony rickets player play on on IT £25 bet you'll get one cheap on ebay

as for reissues stay away oh i feel quite sick thinking of it its much more satisfiing playing the real deal and hunting it down or when it comes through the door in them impossible to get in to packages and your ripping it open what a feeling

you wouldnt get that with a yukky pressing you wouldnt find me playing them

like mr bicknall said if you use originals you get noticed being only young (24)

you can imagen its quite hard to get people on the scean to give youa chance but i stuck buy and used original records local promoters are starting to notice my collection and with a couple of good friends giving me guidance has helped so stick to them real deal records i say im going on abit now arnt i i'll get me coat lol

Wow what a fantastic response from everyone that has replied and emailed me.

All the suggestions you have made regarding recommended tunes have been noted and added to my search / wish-list. I will have targets to aim for now when routing through dealers sales boxes.

Mark that was a very informative reply and it kind of reflected some feeling I had about the way things are. I don't really mind the long and hard route with hopefully a bit of luck thrown in. I have taken sometime a browsing the forum before registering to get a feel for the way things are. I have seen people rebel but it's obvious the scene is excellent because it's run just the way it is. I have no desire to change things from the norm and I total accept the status quo.

I know what you mean about people making breaks in a scene then just suddenly vanishing but for myself; I am a very committed individual. It may be fun if I just quickly run through why I am here today asking questions and pondering for help.

Here goes . . .

Before I become a Nurse I was a full-time Session Musician and a contract Sound Engineer. I ended up working for a local council providing technical engineering at a large venue in Heywood Manchester. This would be around 6 - 7 years ago. I was told one night that we had a prominent DJ coming who played at Wigan Casino and he was promoting a Northern Soul Night at our venue. I was asked to give him a link into the house P.A. That guy was Russ Winstanley. I got on great with him and he knew so much about the history of the scene. I sat up in the sound box on them soul nights with not much to do but wait for the event to end so I could power everything down. The more the gigs went on the more certain tunes stuck with me. I would always climb down my ladder and go ask Russ the name of the tune if I liked it. At the time he was there he released Soul Survivors and included a tune on the CD because I mithered him for it so much. That was 'The Snake' 'Al Wilson'. He also gave the club in Heywood a heavy mention on the album CD cover. As more time progressed less people came to the venue and the Northern Soul nights stopped. I never did understand why? Russ had a great team of DJ's with him. Only other guy I remember with Russ was Steve ( Somebody ), can't remember his surname but he had a tash and played some of the best music I ever heard . . .

The rest is kind of history now. I dance a lot to Northern Soul and I am a DJ with over 20 years experience within commercial music scene.

The way I see it is this . . . I am 44 and not really got that many years left in mainstream disco's ( would you want a fossil like me doing your Daughters 18th? ).

I don't ever want to stop dj'ing though. So . . . I want to progress in the Northern Scene firstly for the love of the music, and secondly because I love to DJ. If the big stages ever come then hopefully it will come with merit and dedication but for now, my sights are just set on getting involved with a small local club and progressing upwards if it's meant to happen.

The one thing I have found throughout the scene is that the people are so helpful and friendly. Some of the greatest night's out I have ever had have been at Soul gigs. I went to the Twisted Wheel a few weeks back with my wife and never realized it was part of Placemate 7. I worked there on relief once for 6 weeks for Leisure 2000. The time I was at Placemate 7 I never even knew about the Twisted Wheel and all that history was surrounding me. Talk about a bomb dropping on your head and not hearing it

Thanks again and if you can spare the time, keep those suggestions coming or if you have a list anywhere of more suggestions and sources my email is lordsandor@gmail.com

Regards Pete

good luck but it takes a long time to understand this music, nearly 30 years for me and still learning,one last thing,its your money so buy what you like,not what you think you should buy !!!

after that part of the fun is finding records ,playing them if you think they are good and asking people if they know them,an awful lot are well known but its great when people ask you what it is, remmebr no-one knows it all and what is well known to some is unknown to others.

Hiya Pete,

I'm still very much at the beginning of collecting and still have a lot to learn.

I wish you all the luck in the world, because you have picked a sub-culture that can be both the friendliest and most enjoyable, and yet at the same time a minefield of politics and very difficult to be 'accepted'.

Here's a couple of cheapies which I bought early on.

Artistics - Hope We Have/I'm Gonna Miss You - Brunswick - £10

(Classic 2 sider, Side A a fast stomper/Flip Great Ender)

Jean Wells - With My Love And What You've Got (We Can Turn The World Around) - Calla - £15-£20

(Must be the longest title ever - but a great dancer)

Johnny Nash - You Never Know - MGM - £15-£20

(Beautiful track, can't praise enough!)

Cheers,

Jamie

As a further bit of help Pete, keep tabs via Soul Source of up and coming nights in Manchester, particularly the New Century Soul Club niters (and the warm-ups prior to them). Get along to a niter or two, as you'll always find dealers selling records there who may even be able to play some for you if they have a player.

To help you on your way, here's a list of recommended sounds all currently available for under £20 - I did a similar list for Supercorsa a few months back: hope this helps.

FIVE STAIRSTEPS: Change Of Pace (Windy C)

THE MAGIC TONES: It's Better To Love (Mah's)

SAMMY LEE: Rosetta (Commerce)

VERNON GARRETT: If I Could Turn Back The Hands Of Time (Modern)

MARY WELLS: Can't You See (You're Losing Me) (Atco - also UK Atlantic)

MISS MADELINE: Lonely Girl/Behave Yourself (Mar-V-Lus)

JIMMY ROBINS: I Can't Please You (Jerhart)

DOLLY & THE FASHIONS: The Right One/Just Another Fool (Ivanhoe)

DARRELL BANKS: Somebody Somewhere Needs You (Revilot)

THE MARTINELS: I Don't Care (Success)

JIMMY DELPHS: Almost (Karen OR Carla)

CHARLES WRIGHT: Keep Saying (Philips)

THE PERFORMERS: Set Me Free (Mirwood)

THE OLYMPICS: The Same Old Thing (Mirwood)

TRACEY DEY: Go Away (Amy - also UK Stateside)

THE DELLS: Make Sure (Cadet)

FRED HUGHES: Oo Wee Baby, I Love You (Vee Jay - also UK Fontana)

THREE DEGREES: Do What You're Supposed To Do (Swan)

DIDI NOEL: Let The Music Play (Blue Cat)

Gene

Hi Pete

you can have a spot at one of my nights in Manchester..I like to give lots of people the chance to play the stuff they collect...check out my website for details and get back to me...we play soul/funk/ska/reggae/blues/jazz etc...

FIVE STAIRSTEPS: Change Of Pace (Windy C)

Their 'Playgirl's Love' is a good cheap one too, another one that springs to mind is the Precisions 'If This Is Love' on Drew (think a few of their others are £15-20ish as well).

THE DELLS: Make Sure (Cadet)

Gene

Tune Tune Tune... this keeps poping up lately..

Sheer quality

As a further bit of help Pete, keep tabs via Soul Source of up and coming nights in Manchester, particularly the New Century Soul Club niters (and the warm-ups prior to them).  Get along to a niter or two, as you'll always find dealers selling records there who may even be able to play some for you if they have a player.

To help you on your way, here's a list of recommended sounds all currently available for under £20 - I did a similar list for Supercorsa a few months back: hope this helps.

FIVE STAIRSTEPS: Change Of Pace (Windy C)

THE MAGIC TONES: It’s Better To Love (Mah’s)

SAMMY LEE: Rosetta  (Commerce)

VERNON GARRETT: If I Could Turn Back The Hands Of Time (Modern)

MARY WELLS: Can’t You See (You’re Losing Me) (Atco – also UK Atlantic)

MISS MADELINE: Lonely Girl/Behave Yourself (Mar-V-Lus)

JIMMY ROBINS: I Can’t Please You (Jerhart)

DOLLY & THE FASHIONS: The Right One/Just Another Fool (Ivanhoe)

DARRELL BANKS: Somebody Somewhere Needs You (Revilot)

THE MARTINELS: I Don’t Care (Success)

JIMMY DELPHS: Almost (Karen OR Carla)

CHARLES WRIGHT: Keep Saying (Philips)

THE PERFORMERS: Set Me Free (Mirwood)

THE OLYMPICS: The Same Old Thing (Mirwood)

TRACEY DEY: Go Away (Amy – also UK Stateside)

THE DELLS: Make Sure (Cadet)

FRED HUGHES: Oo Wee Baby, I Love You (Vee Jay – also UK Fontana)

THREE DEGREES: Do What You’re Supposed To Do (Swan)

DIDI NOEL: Let The Music Play (Blue Cat)

Gene

Good call on those Gene.

Love the Tracey Dey in a girly/poppy sort of way and the Vernon Garrett is pure class IMHO.

The flip to Juanita Williams is also worth a listen.

A few others:

Incredibles - Little Miss Treatment/AllOf A Sudden

Therese Lindsey - Daddy O/I'll Bet You

Sensations - Lonely World

Soul Notes - How Long Will It Last/Don't Make Me Beg

Orlons - Once Upon A Time

HTH

Andy F

Good call on those Gene.

Love the Tracey Dey in a girly/poppy sort of way and the Vernon Garrett is pure class IMHO.

The flip to Juanita Williams is also worth a listen.

A few others:

Incredibles - Little Miss Treatment/AllOf A Sudden

Therese Lindsey - Daddy O/I'll Bet You

Sensations - Lonely World

Soul Notes - How Long Will It Last/Don't Make Me Beg

Orlons - Once Upon A Time

HTH

Andy F

Juanita Williams "worth a listen" Andy ? Come on mate it is absolutely class mid tempo IMVHO ;-) & Baby Boy is a great cheap dancer - 5 quid a side ? you can't go wrong!

Use to play both sides at OBL & I bet Stuart was rubbing his chin in the corner to "you knew etc" LOL

Juanita Williams "worth a listen" Andy ? Come on mate it is absolutely class mid tempo IMVHO ;-) & Baby Boy is a great cheap dancer - 5 quid a side ? you can't go wrong!

Use to play both sides at OBL & I bet Stuart was rubbing his chin in the corner to "you knew etc" LOL

Errr - I was being understated :-)))

PMSL

Andy F

PS Being truthful I prefer "You Knew" of the two

a few more around the £20 mark

marva whitney savin my love for my baby on federal

steve mancha your still in my heart groovesville

jo armstead a stone good lover giant

Well Peter think with that lot your budget has gone ....lol

all the best mate come to the Ducie Bridge pub bang across from the CIS New century Soul club and come mingle with soul minded folks, have a beer and listen to some fantastic music.

Just ask for Steve Cato ( quality fellow, always make you welcome)

All the best yours Brett

little-stevie Posted on Aug 17 2004, 02:38 PM

Hi Pete

you can have a spot at one of my nights in Manchester..I like to give lots of people the chance to play the stuff they collect...check out my website for details and get back to me...we play soul/funk/ska/reggae/blues/jazz etc...

Thats a great offer little-stevie, whats your website addy mate?

Gene-R and everyone that's still suggesting stuff . . . Over the moon with this input still. Will post the results as the finds come in, I suspect this is going to take a while though

Regards

Pete

Hi Pete

You can see what nights i have in Manchester on my website...www.cooloff.net..If others want to come along and play or just chill with a beer then let me know...Gene R..Brett..and the others on here..quality bunch...

I bet Stuart was rubbing his chin in the corner to "you knew etc"

Rubbing my chin? I deny that. Miss Madeline is a good call, love that record.

Some more cheapies:

Jean Standback If I Ever Needed Love Peacock

Kenny Young on Share (forgot the title and I'm in a rush, pubs are open)

Sensations Gotta Find A New Baby Way Out

hi

you say you have been a mainstream dj for a long time why not use the money you get from this to purchase originals,

this is something dave boothe does as he gets well paid for his dj'ing in clubs which he uses to further bolster his collection.

mark

To help you on your way, here's a list of recommended sounds all currently available for under £20 - I did a similar list for Supercorsa a few months back: hope this helps.

FIVE STAIRSTEPS: Change Of Pace (Windy C)

THE MAGIC TONES: It's Better To Love (Mah's)

SAMMY LEE: Rosetta  (Commerce)

VERNON GARRETT: If I Could Turn Back The Hands Of Time (Modern)

MARY WELLS: Can't You See (You're Losing Me) (Atco - also UK Atlantic)

MISS MADELINE: Lonely Girl/Behave Yourself (Mar-V-Lus)

JIMMY ROBINS: I Can't Please You (Jerhart)

DOLLY & THE FASHIONS: The Right One/Just Another Fool (Ivanhoe)

DARRELL BANKS: Somebody Somewhere Needs You (Revilot)

THE MARTINELS: I Don't Care (Success)

JIMMY DELPHS: Almost (Karen OR Carla)

CHARLES WRIGHT: Keep Saying (Philips)

THE PERFORMERS: Set Me Free (Mirwood)

THE OLYMPICS: The Same Old Thing (Mirwood)

TRACEY DEY: Go Away (Amy - also UK Stateside)

THE DELLS: Make Sure (Cadet)

FRED HUGHES: Oo Wee Baby, I Love You (Vee Jay - also UK Fontana)

THREE DEGREES: Do What You're Supposed To Do (Swan)

DIDI NOEL: Let The Music Play (Blue Cat)

Gene

Yea,only half of these weren't on it! LOL

I recently got the Five Stairsteps track for about a fiver from Ebay. I'm sure that was the one you had to dance to at SITC that night, Gene.

Some of the other suggestions I got and have since purchased, are as follows:

Lorraine Rudolph - Keep Coming Back For More - Jet Stream

SUPERLATIVES: Lonely In A Crowd (Westbound)

MARY WELLS: Keep Me In Suspense (Atco)

Syl Johnson - Try Me - Twilight

Jimmy Norman - This I Beg Of You - Samar

Accents - New Girl - M-Pac

JIMMY INTERVAL: Somebody To Love (Columbia)

Betty Lavette - I'm Just A Fool For You/Stand Up Like A Man - Calla

THE PROPHETS: My Kind Of Girl (Stephanye)

Eddie & Ernie - Outcast - Eastern

THE FIVE STAIRSTEPS: Change Of Pace (Windy City)

Jackie Paine - No Puppy Love - Jetstream

All good tunes for £20 or less.

Oh yea another couple of tracks worth getting and which are cheap, whilst I think about it.

Edwin Starr - SOS (Stop Her On Sight) b/w I Have Faith In You (Ric Tic)

J J Barnes - Please Let Me In b/w I Think I Found A Love (Ric Tic)

I'm not the greatest buyer of super rare obscure 45s ( Not at the current asking prices anyway) but i have a good eye for a bargain and here are some of my suggestions I have that wont break the bank. Some of them are also fantastic double siders.

Maxine Brown - The secret of living - Wand

Al Green - Dont leave me - Hot line

Al Kent - The way you've been acting lately - Ric Tic

Freddie Gorman - Take me back - Ric Tic

The Metros - Sweetest one - RCA

Juanita Williams - Baby boy - Golden world

Barbara Mercer - Hey - Golden World

Barbara Mercer - Nobody loves me like you -Golden World

Pat Lewis - I cant shake it loose - Golden World

Mary Wells - I'm Learnin' - 20TH Century

Fred Hughes - Dont let me down - Vee Jay.

Jackie Ross - Selfish one - Chess

J J Barnes - Please Let Me In b/w I Think I Found A Love (Ric Tic)

Call me old fashioned but have heard this a million times now but it still sends a tingle down my spine.Northern soul perfection.

Rubbing my chin? I deny that. Miss Madeline is a good call, love that record.

Some more cheapies:

Jean Standback If I Ever Needed Love Peacock

Kenny Young on Share (forgot the title and I'm in a rush, pubs are open)

Sensations Gotta Find A New Baby Way Out

Jean Stanback isn't that cheap anymore :-(

Great tune though that deserves to spun more IMHO

Andy F

It has often baffled me how a superb tune like PW Canon - 'Beating of my lonely heart', can still be bought for about £30 when the worst record of all time (the Airoplane song) costs £800!!

OK I know why, but come on £30 for soul quality, or £800 for childish trite??

Hi Pete,

just checked out Manship's Car Boot sale (www.raresoulman.co.uk) and found some really nice, really cheap collection builders. Check these out.

TOYS-I GOT MY HEART SET ON YOU-MUSICOR £9

LITTLE JOHNNY TAYLOR-SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE-GALAXY £14

GARNETT MIMMS-PROVE IT TO ME-UA £6

LITTLE ANTHONY-NEVER AGAIN-DCP £5

BOBBY PATTERSON-WHAT A WONDERFUL NIGHT FOR LOVE-PAMA £6

DELCOS-ARABIA-SHOWCASE £20

CODs-MICHAEL-KELLMAC £5

MAXINE BROWN-ONE IN A MILLION-WAND £12

DEBONAIRES-PLEASE DON'T SAY WE'RE THROUGH £7

BUNNY SIGLER-LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL-STATESIDE £5

CORNELIU BROS & SISTER ROSE-TOO LATE TO TURN BACK NOW-UA £6

Obviously the prices indicate that they're not in great nick but some of the most crackly records don't sound too bad over a big sound system. I've got a Peppermint Harris that, when I play it on my home system sounds like he's singing with someone frying chips in the background but on a big sound system it sounds perfect. Go figure!

Anyway, the above will set you back a grand total of £95 which isn't a bad figure to start with and they're all well known oldies.

Give me your email address and I'll do you a tape of cheapies.

Pete,

You are at a similar stage as me in collecting. I have only just began collecting after coming back to the scene.

Using Ebay and soul lists you can still get plenty of bargains.

SUPERLATIVES - I STILL LOVE YOU -Uptite

EXSAYVEYONS - I DON'T LOVE YOU KNOE MORE - Smoke

JOEY HEATHERTON - WHEN YOU CALL ME BABY - MCA

FIVE STAIRSTEPS - DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME - WindyC

SPANIELS - STAND IN LINE - North American

VOLUMES - GOTTA GIVE HER LOVE - American Arts

HOLIDAYS - I'LL LOVE YOU FOREVER - Golden World

B J THOMAS - I DON'T HAVE A MIND OF MY OWN - Pacemaker

DEON JACKSON - LOVE TAKES A LONG TIME GROWING - Carla

LOVE MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND - Carla

CASINOS - I STILL LOVE YOU - Fraternity

BOB KUBAN - THE CHEATER - Musicland

POETS - SHE BLEW A GOOD THING - Symbol

LOU JOHNSON - IF I NEVER GET TO LOVE YOU - BIGTOP

THE UNIQUES - NOT TOO LONG AGO - Paula

ALL under fifteen pounds, most under a tenner.

Cheers Mick

OOPS! exaveyons should be worth more with this spelling mistake.

Mick

Don't know if you had a chance to look at the previous Soul City thread as Brett suggested. To reiterate/ clarify, the current Soul City label is absolutely nothing to do with Dave Godin's original label. He is not involved with it in any way,neither did he endorse it. Just a small nit-pick!

Kitty

what do these "new" soulcity 45s look like?

same logo design?

if Dave Godin got nought to do with them, then strikes me as fair bit "out of order" if that is indeed the case

Same design Mike and to quote their latest advert

"At last the return of the legendary imprnt - legendary dancefloor packer, fully legal and complete with orogonal design sleeves"

what do these "new" soulcity 45s look like?

same logo design?

if Dave Godin got nought to do with them, then strikes me as fair bit "out of order" if that is indeed the case

Here you go a scan of the Ad Libs seeing as you mentioned it the other day Mike.

Not wanting to get caught up in the furore etc but i thought that David Nathan actually owned Soul City and am told that it was from him that the permissions etc were obtained.

Ooops a bit big and here's a test pressing of the Magnificents - My Heart is calling you ;o))

I feel very uncomfortable about the answers to Peter H

The matter amounts to what I wanted to say under another subject heading. let me put it this way:

I think Frank Wilson "Do I love you etc." a mediocrity, rightfully withdrawn. The more I read on this forum, the stronger I feel against it: I don't give a damn about its rarity and its history for that matter. It is a mediocre record, full stop. (The Chris Clark version belongs to The Many Recordings That Never Made Her Famous, so it does not matter that it was withdrawn - it is better than Frank Wilson's version anyway).

But if people want to hear it on the dance floor, alright: from a silly sampler undoubtedly named "For connoisseurs only" (this surprisingly seems to be the English spelling). From cd probably.

A mediocrity as The Ivories' Please stay I would skip altogether. No requests wanted. It was not even worth 80p

Is it about the music or about expensive records, mediocre or not? If the former is the case it should not matter whether it is from an original 45, a rerelease, an LP, a sampler, a cd even.

If the latter is the case...well, at least that would be clear. But stop callling yourself an underground scene then. Because then you fit in all too well with market economics.

I feel very uncomfortable about  the answers to Peter H

The matter amounts to what I wanted to say under another subject heading. let me put it this way:

I think Frank Wilson "Do I love you etc." a mediocrity, rightfully withdrawn. The more I read on this forum, the stronger I feel against it: I  don't give a damn about its rarity and its history for that matter. It is a mediocre record, full stop. (The Chris Clark version belongs to The Many Recordings That Never Made Her Famous, so it does not matter that it was withdrawn - it is better than Frank Wilson's version anyway).

But if people want  to hear it on the dance floor, alright:  from a silly sampler undoubtedly named "For connoisseurs only" (this surprisingly seems to be the English spelling). From cd probably.

A mediocrity as The Ivories' Please stay I would skip altogether. No requests wanted. It was not even worth 80p

Is it about the music or about expensive records, mediocre or not? If the former is the case it should not matter  whether  it is from an original 45, a rerelease, an LP, a sampler, a cd even.

If the latter is the case...well, at least that would be clear. But stop callling yourself an underground scene then. Because then you fit in all too well  with market economics.

Cloudnine, i think the days of this being an "underground" scene have long since gone, the sheer number of venues around suggest there are plenty of punters old and new that wanna' hear this music. If you have ever been around this "scene" then you would understand that there has always been a market for rare vinyl and as such the price of certain records has reflected this ( after all they are obscure..generally). If you have looked in any detail at this forum you will have seen many posts dedicated to relatively "cheap" 45's, these are also played at venues across England (i know i regulary attend such venues). Also look at some of the playlists posted (proof in itself).Original records are an integral part of this "Scene", many people have collected and sought out these sounds at great cost to thierselves financially, and a selection of them have DJ'd so others may enjoy their finds. Cloudnine, it is and always will be (in my opinion) about music , it just happens to be that this wonderful genre is like it says

A RARE SOUL SCENE.

RARE adj. (rarer, rarest) 1 Seldom Done, Found, or Occuring; Uncommon, Unusual. 2 Exceptionally Good ( Latin rarus).........The Oxford Dictionary.

Yours Brett

I would rather agree with the "exceptionally good" meaning than with the seldom seen bit.

There might be a difference in style involved, I realise, apart from that I am from the Continent (where common records are generally rarer than in Britain - and don't tell me I should visit Britain more often; I do often enough).

I have been a radio deejay for 25 years, and (apart from the new phenomenon of webcam at the internet radio) am not used to having people look at the medium containing the tunes I play. This might have been a tape, a sampler LP, a rerelease 45, an original - anything. It is the music that counts. And I still think that is the most important thing, for radio or out on the floor - hey hey hey! (I have got that one on LP, and let none say that sounds less good!)

So is there a straight answer then?

Are these new batch of 'Soul City' releases classed as re-presses and are they legit to play at a proper northern soul functions without them being branded as non-originals?

This opens up something else I have come across as a scene newbie. I approached a dealer last night at Bury Soul Club for Yvonne Bakers - You didn't say a word. He said he had it on the original label but it was a 're-pressing'? I sat there having a dilemma about it's purchase, so i didn't just in case!

Can anyone enlighten me on the whole 're-press' issue and how valid and playable ( or not playable ) they are at an event.

Really appreciating all the advice I am getting here. I have already formed a 'wants list. which I now carry with me to gigs containing details of the correct label and pricing.

BTW, those DJ's at Bury Soul Club was really helpful last night when I was approaching them for names of tunes they was playing. Thought that was real nice of them I love that club to pieces. Also was a treat to see Mark Bicknell at work. Was the first time I seen him and considering all I have read about him during my research I don't mind admitting I was sat there in awe. He played some fantastic stuff. Hope he does not 'really' quit the scene like I read he was going to.

Can anyone enlighten me on the whole 're-press' issue and how valid and playable ( or not playable ) they are at an event.

Peter

I think that calling pressings / bootlegs "second issues" or "re-press" has come about because of ebay; I don't think you can list a bootleg as a bootleg because it was never produced legitimately i.e. paying royalties etc, and it's not good to pass off a fake, intentionally or not, as an original.

99.9% of records out there are either originals or pressings, but sometimes bootlegs are sold as originals!! Due to demand a few labels did re-issue stuff (Artic ?), but often on a 'sister' label; the Vibrations you are after came out on Epic, but was re-released on CBS- Columbia Special Products. However, the spinning of legitimate re-issues may be frowned upon because there are originals out there that you could buy and spin. Nevertheless, labels like Kent, that have put out unreleased stuff are regarded in a different light because that's the only way of playing out the sound, and they're legal!

Can anyone enlighten me on the whole 're-press' issue and how valid and playable ( or not playable ) they are at an event.

Re-press is just a term people use instead of coming out and saying its a bootleg. That Yvonne Baker was a bootleg. At least when people call them re-presses they are not trying to pass them off as an original.

Not to be confussed with re-issues which are legal issues by the record company or a re-issue label (such as Soul City).

IMO none of the above (or CD's) are acceptable to play at a 'Proper' northern soul nite, it has to be originals only.

BTW I use the word 'proper' because that term was used in someones post. All soul nites are 'proper' no matter what music policy they have. For this term read soul nite that clearly defines its music policy by the DJ's it hires and the music policy of originals only. Other soul nites, more the local type 'do', do not care what format the music is played on and generaly neither do the punters - they go out once a month, maybe, for a good time to listen to the sounds that they know and love - therefore, generally oldies orientated. These nites are the backbone of the scene and you will get people like me who attend, for the enjoyment of it, who also attend 'proper' do's regularly. I used to get annoyed that people used to play re-issues/boots at these do's especially if I was DJing and had the original in my box. Now it doesn't bother me at all, it is their do and they can do what they want - after all without these do's I wouldnt be there having a good time.

To summise, on whether it is accepatable to play reissues/boots/cds at a soul nite -it depends on the night. Ask the promoter what his music policy is - if he doesnt care then play them - he will know what the punters like and expect. If its originals only, then thats what it is!

Again - apolgies for the use of the word 'proper', i'm not trying to de-value any soul nite, just trying to explain

BTW - Originals Rule!!! OK!!

To summise, on whether it is accepatable to play reissues/boots/cds at a soul nite -it depends on the night. Ask the promoter what his music policy is - if he doesnt care then play them - he will know what the punters like and expect. If its originals only, then thats what it is!

Again - apolgies for the use of the word 'proper', i'm not trying to de-value any soul nite, just trying to explain

BTW - Originals Rule!!! OK!!

A very balanced and unbiased view there from Mr Abbott. I can only agree. If it's just a local night and everybody is there to dance and hear good music and the night is not promoted under false pretences, then I wouldn't mind what format it is on.

If you go to an 'organised' soul event, then either a) you would be fairly lucky to be playing there anyway, and if you were then 'originals' it must be or refer to earlier postings about playing 'un-realeased' tracks that are only available on labels such as Kent and occasionally CD's etc.

Just another point that cropped into my head while I was typing this is: Are tracks off Albums considered acceptable if it is available in 7" format? I know it's a bit pedantic, but I would still like to know your views. I can think of many a track available on both formats, with the only difference being value and to some extent rareity.....

Jamie

good question and one i have had several answers to myself

tracks like phillip mitchel im so happy , luther dont wanna be a fool , collins and collins top of the stairs are all much cheaper on the lps than the 45s and often found in better condition , is it alright to play these tracks out at soul nights from lps as they still are origionals.

also nolan porter is half the price on the lp than the 45 , and demand for the 7" has put the price up whilst the lp has stayed about the same money

Funny, this use of the word "original". To me this actually refers to versions, like: Jerry Butler does the original of "Message to Martha" (which I have as an LP-track, fyi, although it is not relevant for dance events anyway). There is a good Flemish guide to originals in this sense, and I had the unpleasant task of correcting it on this point (it had Lou Johnson as the original of the Message - a beautiful version, certainly, but not the original).

But original means something else here.

So we have to dig up this brilliant LP by Tony Blackburn to have him sing the non-original of I'll do anything. That will be difficult. Thank goodness for that.

Having been an unofficial contributor to the abovementioned guide I can say I once was obsessed by playing originals. Now I am no longer (may Lou Johnson rule, ok, alongside Jerry Butler or even Adam Faith).

And having looked for "All for you" by Earl Vandyke since first hearing it I am happy to have it on cd (in spite of all my negative feelings about this medium), and that's the medium from which I will spin it.

We are talking about music of Black North America. We are not talking about paying sums of three digits for something which can be found easier and cheaper - as far as I am concerned.

Ah! talking 'bout originals...

Nolan Porter is N.F. Porter, is he not? I once bought "Keep on keepin' on" for a good solid old guilder at the flea market. Completely going against what I would like to state I must grin - yes, I have that original, and not an LP-track.

(And all because I thought when I boought it it might have been the original of the Curtis Mayfield tune, to find out it was a completely different number and putting it at its place in the alphabetic order until very recently. An original original. But I can promise these are not the norm in my collection). :-)

Just another point that cropped into my head while I was typing this is: Are tracks off Albums considered acceptable if it is available in 7" format? I know it's a bit pedantic, but I would still like to know your views. I can think of many a track available on both formats, with the only difference being value and to some extent rareity.....

Jamie, again depends on the do. At your reissues/boots etc do then anything goes and albums are fine. But at a 'proper' do, it has to be the 45 only not the album.

Probably sounds daft to those that aren't collectors or Dj's, but the whole rare soul scene has been built around the playing of music in 45 format. Period. Oh, unless of course its an album only track......

To me this actually refers to versions, like: Jerry Butler does the original of "Message to Martha" (which I have as an LP-track, fyi, although it is not relevant for dance events anyway). There is a good Flemish guide to  originals in this sense, and I had the unpleasant task of correcting it on this point (it had Lou Johnson as the original of the Message - a beautiful version, certainly, but not  the original).

What's the date of the JB album and the story, I'd always assumed Lou's was the original.

Oh well, funny I should have mentioned it...:-)

We are talking about real originals now!

(and about really beautiful R&

The Jerry Butler version is from 1963.

With all my appreciation for Jerry Butler I thought & wished Lou Johnson had done the original (and then having English white artists running away with his potential hits). I hope I can find the album after writing this, I'll be back on it...

Having broken the shocking "news" privately to Ady C, I will tell it to the distinguished Forum too, although it is out of order with respect to the original subject.... And it is not about a stomper. Au contraire.

Just found out that the beautiful "Message to Martha" was originally in Italian for the San Remo Festival 1962. No bad words about this festival though, remember Festival time by the San Remo Strings?

Poor Lou Johnson. But his is the best version. Or is it Jerry Butler's?