...do the younger element that attend accept what is played at a 'Northern Soul' do as simply 'Northern Soul' (like I did bitd) or has the scene today got to the point where everything is pigeon-holed?

Is there such a thing as a plain old Northern Soul night these days, outside of the obvious marketing of such?

I read people's views on here and there is a lot of knowledge re the varying grades of soul but there is also a degree of confusion of the scene when I speak to people at venues - given, the people I speak to prob aren't members of SS.

As I rarely attend staright Northern do's these days I struggle a bit trying to marry the two - the online visions and the attendee's at floor level..

...not sure if that makes sense, but hey ho.

Any half decent attempt at replying would be greatfully accepted.

Northern soul has never been a musical genre, its only ever been a dance scene. Its success and longevity is due to it taking the best of what is in favour(musically) at the time, allowing the scene to continue to be interesting and dynamic. Dance scenes generally live for a few years and die or lay dormant, which then get revived by a new generation who make it their own. We've essentially had over 40 years of "Northern Soul" so there's a lot of time for different genres to be assimilated into the scene. So Northern Soul can mean something completely different from one person to the next. Its this longevity which in turn has been its curse and why there is so much fighting as to what is "Northern Soul". So to your question is there a true "Northern Soul" night, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer due to different peoples view points.

Thanks for the answer fella.

To me though (given it was 1980), Northern Soul was, in my mind, a musical genre..... I as a kid heard everything that was played at Wigan and took it as read that these older people in charge of the music policy were playing simply 'Northern Soul'.

I didn't have the benefit as a fresher of the knowledge I have now to deliniate between my Phyllis Hyman's and my Vibrations, my K-Jee's from me Seven Souls....it was just 'Northern'.

It's difficult for me to get what goes on these days as the internet allow's people to learn a great deal without having to attend, I feel that a lot of views are formed from reading stuff and not attending....sorry, that is a sh*t reply, come back at me and I'll try to give you an answer deserved of you reply mate.

the commercial assosiations with Northern have definatly put me off using the term over the last year. In my head nowadays, All I think about is baggy trs, hoop skirts, patches and mugs, oh and presings, when I hear the term northern. I'm not young anymore but thats my take on it.

The recent (well many years now) trend of promoting sub-genres has been a very negative thing IMO, and has been nothing but divisive.

As Barry said bitd it was all just Northern.Northen Soul is a genre whther some people like it or not. Yes it is (or more probably was) a dance scene but it was always a genre too. As in whenever asked what music I was into I would, and still do, proudly say Northern Soul.

Phil

the commercial assosiations with Northern have definatly put me off using the term over the last year. In my head nowadays, All I think about is baggy trs, hoop skirts, patches and mugs, oh and presings, when I hear the term northern. I'm not young anymore but thats my take on it.

im in complete agreement. i stil use the term in comparison to funk soul r&b and so on when talking about diferent music. but i feel these days the term has been manipulated completely it conjures up this embarrassing image of dressing up as stated above. needless to say i'm wary when using the term and i spend a lot of time trying to explain northern soul the dance scene (not the reminisers scene)

Edited August 13, 201212 yr by steptoe

im in complete agreement. i stil use the term in comparison to funk soul r&b and so on when talking about diferent music. but i feel these days the term has been manipulated completely it conjures up this embarrassing image of dressing up as stated above. needless to say i'm wary when using the term and i spend a lot of time trying to explain northern soul the dance scene (not the reminisers scene)

Spot on,When you mention Northern Soul to people it always conjours up images of baggy trousers talc on the floor and soul skirts.To me its all about the music we listen to today.We all love the oldies, regular week in week out ones,forgotten stuff that quality dj,s pull out of the back of their boxes and the new discoverys inc r&b modern and all the rest in between,in all its got to be is dancable. Chris

To me its all about the music we listen to today.We all love the oldies, regular week in week out ones,forgotten stuff that quality dj,s pull out of the back of their boxes and the new discoverys inc r&b modern and all the rest in between,in all its got to be is dancable. Chris

I agree. In short - Northern Soul!

...do the younger element that attend accept what is played at a 'Northern Soul' do as simply 'Northern Soul' (like I did bitd) or has the scene today got to the point where everything is pigeon-holed?

I think the discerning "younger" punter these days (under 25?) stays well away from anything tagged a "northern night" (unless they are being taken by mam n dad!) Younger folk that go in numbers tend to frequent more upfront city venues or festivals playing a mixture of funk, soul disco and acid jazz stuff. (Mosely Funk and Jazz festival and Soul Buggin, Nottingham sping to mind)

https://soulbuggin.podomatic.com/ Rob Soulfood podcast in particular

From my experience (I teach and my boy is 17) a lot of young people like northern stuff but it will probably be just one of a number of genres they listen to on their ipod. They may or may not even class it as "northern" or even associate it with dance scenes at all! (damn you KFC) Britain has a long history of taking black american music and using it subversively, whether that's blues, soul or house. I'm sure they are still doing it, just with other black American music genres.

(I'm 34 btw, do I still class as a young un?) (on second thoughts forget i asked )

Edited August 13, 201212 yr by Jhsoulnotts

Younger folk that go in numbers tend to frequent more upfront city venues or festivals playing a mixture of funk, soul disco and acid jazz stuff. (Mosely Funk and Jazz festival and Soul Buggin, Nottingham sping to mind)

Well who's interested in them then and why talk about them if they have no interest in NS?

because they are, that's my point, they listen to it but just don't label it "northern"

I think the discerning "younger" punter these days (under 25?) stays well away from anything tagged a "northern night" (unless they are being taken by mam n dad!) Younger folk that go in numbers tend to frequent more upfront city venues or festivals playing a mixture of funk, soul disco and acid jazz stuff. (Mosely Funk and Jazz festival and Soul Buggin, Nottingham sping to mind)

https://soulbuggin.podomatic.com/ Rob Soulfood podcast in particular

From my experience (I teach and my boy is 17) a lot of young people like northern stuff but it will probably be just one of a number of genres they listen to on their ipod. They may or may not even class it as "northern" or even associate it with dance scenes at all! (damn you KFC) Britain has a long history of taking black american music and using it subversively, whether that's blues, soul or house. I'm sure they are still doing it, just with other black American music genres.

(I'm 34 btw, do I still class as a young un?) (on second thoughts forget i asked )

think you are wrong about the young ones, i would say most of [ but not all] the younger ones are more in to the oldies venues, that is were i see most of them doing their dancing

think you are wrong about the young ones, i would say most of [ but not all] the younger ones are more in to the oldies venues, that is were i see most of them doing their dancing

Perhaps I missed the point of the OP? I wasn't really talking about the odd kid that goes with their Mam and Dad, I was talking about scenes/groups of young people.

Edited August 13, 201212 yr by Jhsoulnotts

Perhaps I missed the point of the OP? I wasn't really talking about the odd kid that goes with their Mam and Dad, I was talking about scenes/groups of young people.

..like these....

Perhaps I missed the point of the OP? I wasn't really talking about the odd kid that goes with their Mam and Dad, I was talking about scenes/groups of young people.

There's a whole group of younger folk who go to loads of venues in the north west they even have Thier own night in Manchester blackbees soul club

When I get talking to them they are very knowledgeable about the scene lots of them are dancing in the new northern soul film don't think that they go with mam n dad

As to wether These people represent the trends of the rest of youth culture I very much doubt it some The kids I teach dress in Fred Perrygear smart jumpers cardigans smart shoes ect

When I ask them why they dress that way and what sort of music theyre into

The term northern soul is very seldom heard!

If the term northern soul is used it cod encompass early r n b to upfront rare modern soul and everything inbetween as the man said above if you like it dance to it buy it play it if not find a place where they play the stuff you like

Live n let live

Perhaps I missed the point of the OP? I wasn't really talking about the odd kid that goes with their Mam and Dad, I was talking about scenes/groups of young people.

i am not talking about kids that go with their mums and dads either and i go to alot of venues up and down the country.so pray you tell me were you go were you have seen these groups of young people? or are you just talking about young folk in your area? because you dont know about other parts of the country?

Well eff me someon has put a video on whilst i was posting ! with the some of the very people I was on about

Me thinks it looks good

There's a whole group of younger folk who go to loads of venues in the north west they even have Thier own night in Manchester blackbees soul club

When I get talking to them they are very knowledgeable about the scene lots of them are dancing in the new northern soul film don't think that they go with mam n dad

As to wether These people represent the trends of the rest of youth culture I very much doubt it some The kids I teach dress in Fred Perrygear smart jumpers cardigans smart shoes ect

When I ask them why they dress that way and what sort of music theyre into

The term northern soul is very seldom heard!

If the term northern soul is used it cod encompass early r n b to upfront rare modern soul and everything inbetween as the man said above if you like it dance to it buy it play it if not find a place where they play the stuff you like

Live n let live

If you read my post I think we are both saying the same thing

i am not talking about kids that go with their mums and dads either and i go to alot of venues up and down the country.so pray you tell me were you go were you have seen these groups of young people? or are you just talking about young folk in your area? because you dont know about other parts of the country?

Yes your quite right, I never get out, that's why I'm so jaded, but I'm happy now I know there is an army of them young uns waiting in the wings to carry the torch! KTF

If you read my post I think we are both saying the same thing

Yes your quite right, I never get out, that's why I'm so jaded, but I'm happy now I know there is an army of them young uns waiting in the wings to carry the torch! KTF

I can only comment on the people I see in Manchester at the wheel twice a month they tell me that there's a thriving younger soul scene intje north west

They seem to like oldies I don't know what it's like in the rest of the. Country???

I can only go on pictures YouTube and. comments on here

It would be great to hear views from some of the more progressive clubs promotors ect

..like these....

and that's not a "scene", its a film in pre-production!

think you are wrong about the young ones, i would say most of [ but not all] the younger ones are more in to the oldies venues, that is were i see most of them doing their dancing

What about the young un's who run there own "do's" like Empty Bottle & That Driving Beat (Leeds). They're certainly not oldies "do's" & when talking to them they just want to hear/play great music & not give it all the labels we try to heap on them.

Cheers

Martyn

What about the young un's who run there own "do's" like Empty Bottle & That Driving Beat (Leeds). They're certainly not oldies "do's" & when talking to them they just want to hear/play great music & not give it all the labels we try to heap on them.

Cheers

Martyn

thats why i said in my post =most but not all and i admire the younger ones for setting up their own dos and wanting to learn more/something diferent

thats why i said in my post =most but not all and i admire the younger ones for setting up their own dos and wanting to learn more/something diferent

Mickey

That's why I go to there "do's",far more refreshing than some more established night's.

Cheers

Martyn

" Northern Soul " = A particular, and hard to explain beat within a musical production, usually, but not limited to, less than 3mins in length. Not a necessity to have any "Soul" content within it's production whatsoever, again it's the beat of the music which defines whether or not it's northern soul.

Unless an artist has been told otherwise, nobody has ever gone into a recording studio to produce a northern soul record, it really is just magic!! it just happens, again, northern soul is just a beat, we all know that beat, not many, if anyone can explain what it is.

It is why we have and without them we would be at a loss, so many white, non soul artists, country western/reggie/R n R/ that have all left a recording studio thinking they have produced what they have always produced, yet having no idea what it is that they have actually produced until 20/30yrs down the line, and when being told this they still say " what is northern soul?"

In short, it is, and will continue to be the biggest underground dance music scene the world has ever known, even with the films,books,newspaper worthy sums of money being spent for some 45's, it will remain in the main underground, as the story, if it has one cannot be told to people that dont get it.

What about the young un's who run there own "do's" like Empty Bottle & That Driving Beat (Leeds). They're certainly not oldies "do's" & when talking to them they just want to hear/play great music & not give it all the labels we try to heap on them.

Cheers

Martyn

Said far more eloquently than I could sir! right on the money

A really interesting thread - the scene covers so much today in terms of variety and age. Probably the thing we all have in common is a love of the traditional northern soul oldies - top 1000 tunes etc that we all heard growing up with the scene or becoming part of the scene whenever we first began the love affair with soul music. Now the scene is such a mix of great music - but whatever we label it: northern / crossover / club sounds / funky northern /R & B / funk / latin soul / midtempo / beat ballads / big city soul / popcorn / modern crossed over to northern rooms etc - it is all great music supported by a group of enthusiasts who go the extra mile to travel and hear / dance to music that they love.

I describe it as rare soul - but still happy to say Northern soul when people ask for a bit more detail - but then try to educate them away from stereo typical northern sounds. Without trying to embarrass Ted Massey - he played an absolutely superb spot of completely rare soul last time I heard him play out - Northern / crossover / latin / R & B / midtempo - he 'kept the floor' in a predominantly oldies orientated room - a class act!! We all go to venues for different reasons - I think we all love the occasional or regular oldies that we danced to in our youth - that is why we got into the music - for some they want to go out and listen to those records and nothing else - great - why not - others want to hear new breaking sounds and push boundaries - this is what the scene was about originally - and others want a mix - some familiar / some new sounds / some they remember vaguely that perhaps did not make it first time around when we were all spoiled for choice.

Regarding youngsters on the scene - probably the natural start is with the top 500 / 1000 tunes we all grew up on - they are the sounds that will naturally grab them into the music just like they did us - for some they will then want to broaden their listening to more extremes just like youth always will - push the boundaries.

As a parent of 20 and 18 year old girls and a 14 year old boy they like a huge variety of music - they love traditional Northern soul on their i-pods - along with all manner of other things that they download - also some funk / crossover / deep etc in amongst chart stuff - they don't want to go to Northern nights etc - but who knows in the future - but they always ask me to add tunes to the computer that they like so they can download to i-pods and also regularly want me to make cds for them from a real mix - rare soul music in 2012 is a broad church - let us all enjoy it for what it is - music mostly from America that we have been privileged to access!! Enjoy and be tolerant of all tastes and age groups.

think you are wrong about the young ones, i would say most of [ but not all] the younger ones are more in to the oldies venues, that is were i see most of them doing their dancing

in fairness, there's a bit of both really, cool kids in generally in city centres looking for an alternative to the mainsteam, and they tend to have a wider range in taste and and generally a greater interest in the music. Then we have the baggy trs and vest brigade, who seem more attracted to 'the scene' dancing, patches oldies ect. Many say, 'there just starting out, dont know any better' and believe they'll progress, limited evidence of this to be honest.

I'd say the former would shun the term Northern soul and the later would embrace it.

and that's not a "scene", its a film in pre-production!

And where do you think most of the dancers have Come from ?

There are some pro dances and actors on there

But the film maker has gone to the young northern soul scene to try and recreate the feel of the seventies from what I can see it looks quite good

As has been discussed on here before I would be stupid to use us old timers

And where do you think most of the dancers have Come from ?

There are some pro dances and actors on there

But the film maker has gone to the young northern soul scene to try and recreate the feel of the seventies from what I can see it looks quite good

As has been discussed on here before I would be stupid to use us old timers

It is great to see the younger element within the 'scene' but far too few to sustain it in the way it has been for the past 40 - 50 Years. As has been said on numerous occasions, it will die with us as a full blown 'Scene'. Yeh, there'll be the odd night remenissing but enough to hold it afloat, perhaps not. Let them enjoy it while they can. in a few years time when we are all too old to attend and these youngsters have grown, married and have kids they will drift away as we did in the 80's. There won't be enough around to keep it going until their return some 15 - 20 years later.

Should we not be enjoying it while we can, concentrate on ourselves for a change. We are not the Olympic Committee with a need to produce a Legacy. Historically, no music genre has had the need to do this. This is our time and we should let them find their own way.

As for dissing the Baggy Trouser brigade !! Granted, it does look a tad on the sad side to see a 45 + wearing the Bags, Badges and Bowling Shirt 'KTF' but back in the day it was the dress code. We soon stepped away from it but don't dismiss it and try to distance yourself. We had the Ziggy Hair, The Wide Collars and perhaps, the younger amongst us, The Safety Pin but thats OK, its what makes you the person you are today.

Todays Nighter Scene is bigger than ever, we should be thankful we are still around and still able to do this thing !!

It is great to see the younger element within the 'scene' but far too few to sustain it in the way it has been for the past 40 - 50 Years. As has been said on numerous occasions, it will die with us as a full blown 'Scene'. Yeh, there'll be the odd night remenissing but enough to hold it afloat, perhaps not. Let them enjoy it while they can. in a few years time when we are all too old to attend and these youngsters have grown, married and have kids they will drift away as we did in the 80's. There won't be enough around to keep it going until their return some 15 - 20 years later.

Should we not be enjoying it while we can, concentrate on ourselves for a change. We are not the Olympic Committee with a need to produce a Legacy. Historically, no music genre has had the need to do this. This is our time and we should let them find their own way.

As for dissing the Baggy Trouser brigade !! Granted, it does look a tad on the sad side to see a 45 + wearing the Bags, Badges and Bowling Shirt 'KTF' but back in the day it was the dress code. We soon stepped away from it but don't dismiss it and try to distance yourself. We had the Ziggy Hair, The Wide Collars and perhaps, the younger amongst us, The Safety Pin but thats OK, its what makes you the person you are today.

Todays Nighter Scene is bigger than ever, we should be thankful we are still around and still able to do this thing !!

Bigger than ever ?? Kinda doubt that.. at it's peak in mid 70's-Wigan-Cleethorpes- etc on a WEEKLY basis.

Any road back to the music, as all have said before too much division nowadays in styles R&B, Crossover,oldies.. whatever... back to basics say I.. just select the best each "genre " has to offer and call it Northern Soul.

ATB

Tony

And where do you think most of the dancers have Come from ?

There are some pro dances and actors on there

But the film maker has gone to the young northern soul scene to try and recreate the feel of the seventies from what I can see it looks quite good

As has been discussed on here before I would be stupid to use us old timers

I thought most of the dancers had come from acting school and been shown how to dance "Northern" at regular dance classes. That's what the web site says anyway. Its only after that that they started attending events isn't it?

Elaine's film really must be authentic if people now think that those in it have been plucked from "the scene"

Should we not be enjoying it while we can, concentrate on ourselves for a change. We are not the Olympic Committee with a need to produce a Legacy. Historically, no music genre has had the need to do this. This is our time and we should let them find their own way.

I agree. Personally I don't really care if "the scene" dies with us, its probably the longest "youth" dance scene in history. For me, its the music that really counts and I can't see interest in soul completely die out. Younger club runners should be left to their own devices, enabling them to evolve in their own unique way. Let's just enjoy ourselves and not worry if there are too many venues, what people are wearing or what format the music is played on (and I'm very much an original format collector) as surely clubs were originally created for people to enjoy themselves, weren't they?

I thought most of the dancers had come from acting school and been shown how to dance "Northern" at regular dance classes. That's what the web site says anyway. Its only after that that they started attending events isn't it?

Elaine's film really must be authentic if people now think that those in it have been plucked from "the scene"

Those that I know are "plucked " from the "scene "

Dint know any actors just a few young people who I talk to st the wheel

;)