Someone I know is going to be doing a Horace Ott interview very soon and asked me for help in details of Horace Ott's arrangements (and any other part of his music career). I know his name on a lot of random new york produced records, but don't have a general overview of the what / whens of his career. Like how did he start in music? When did he go to new york? Was he working for specific labels at specific times? Are there specific records that are interesting to ask about? Also, any specific, interesting questions about his career / work would be appreciated.

thanks,

Bob

You probably already know this but he is credited as arranger on both of The Insiders records on RCA Victor. I'm pretty sure I've seen his name on a few other singles on RCA from the mid to late 60s so maybe he was working for them then?

You probably already know this but he is credited as arranger on both of The Insiders records on RCA Victor. I'm pretty sure I've seen his name on a few other singles on RCA from the mid to late 60s so maybe he was working for them then?

Yeah, I know his name is on a lot of RCA / Verve stuff. But was he employed by them, freelancing (his name is on mercury stuff too), etc.? What are some of his earliest arrangements? Did he do production work? Thanks.

He seemed to be always an independent arranger. It doesn't appear that he ever had an exclusive contract with any one company. It also doen; look like he was the major A&R man wit any label, unless he was for one or two very small NY labels while he was also free lancing with the majors.

He definately got around over the years.

Would this help? https://scafricanamerican.com/honorees/view/2005/10/

I'd like to know how he got linked up with the Stax guys in the late 60's and why he didnt do more.

I suppose royalties from YMCA significantly changed his life and his bank balance.

There are no decent bios on him with any timeline. He must have been on leave from The Service in the very late '50s or at the beginning of the '60s. I don't remember any record with an arranging credit for him before 1962.

I don't remember any record with an arranging credit for him before 1962.

Thought Gladys Knight & the Pips - You Broke Your Promise on Fury was before 1962, he arranged that.

Thought Gladys Knight & the Pips - You Broke Your Promise on Fury was before 1962, he arranged that.

Yes, that was late 1961. So, I now haven't heard of anything he's credited for before 1961.

Thanks everyone for the help so far. It would be great if the Bio had a timeline. Maybe if the guy went into the interview with a general overview of the work he did he could come up with a more detailed picture of where he was and what he was doing and who he was working for at the time.

Arrangement is generally work-for-hire btw. Unless he was part producer or had writing credits, he wouldn't get royalties on YMCA.

Any particularly interesting arrangments people can think of or arrangements for small labels?

I'd also like to know which recording studios he frequented, and if he worked in Philadelphia and New Jersey as well as New York.

didnt he arrange the Geminis 45s on Rca ?

Yes, that was late 1961. So, I now haven't heard of anything he's credited for before 1961.

The Shirelles "The Dance is Over/Tonights The Night" which he arranged is from 1960 it would appear.

didnt he arrange the Geminis 45s on Rca ?

He only did Can't Let You Go/I Hired A Girl, the others were done by Gary Sherman

a good source of info is GEMM...key in "Horace Ott"...sellers like JM often give arranger/producer info in their descriptions...

OK, here is the list of "writing or arranger" from discogs, which is generally light on soul 45s, so he probably did way more. I have to split this post into parts because the messageboard won't let me post everything in one post.

Hold on... trying to format this...

I give up, here's the link

https://www.discogs.com/artist/Horace+Ott#Credits_Writing-Arrangement=&t=Credits_Writing-Arrangement&q=&p=1&per=500

the production link is sort of interesting too, a few mid 70s jazz and funk LPs.

He arranged / conducted stuff on The Diamonds on Mercury in 1960 as well as The Shirelles. I think he did several of their 45s. 1208 was the first Scepter one he did.

Steve

Edited September 7, 201212 yr by Steve G

One of Horace's greatest moments as writer and arranger: Nina Simone's "That's All I Ask".

There is a cover of this by Jeff Buckley, who recognised its simple beauty, but it remains a relatively unknown part of Nina's repertoire. It's only on mono copies of the "Wild Is The Wind" album.

Always been an important name to me, and one to look out for, since I first picked up a copy of Billy Harner "What About The Music"... crikey, nearly 40 years ago.

His arrangements are usually fabulous.

Pulled together a few which might be of interest to 'Northern Soul' fans where Horace was involved (see below).

Pretty sure there will be others that I've missed.

Would love to be a fly on the wall in that interview :0)

What an INCREDIBLE career.

Best,



Sean

Northern Related Tunes From Horace Ott

Charades — Key To My Happiness — MGM
Bobby Adams — That's The Kind Of Man I Am — Big Bee
Billy Harner — What About The Music — Kama Sutra
Billy Harner — A Message To My Babe — V-Tone
Billy Harner — Everything's Hunky Dory — V-Tone
Helena Ferguson — My Terms — Compass
Helena Ferguson — The Loneliness Is Coming Again — Compass
Celestrials — Keep Your Hands Off My Baby — RCA
Celestrials — Chain Reaction — RCA
Four Bars — Waiting on The Right Guy - Falew
Jackie & The Umpires — Three Kinds Of Love — Sew City
Sylvia St Clair — It Hurts To See You Happy — Brunswick
Chris Hamilton — I've Got To Have Your Love — Bell
Pierre Hunt — I've Got To Have Your love — Golden Wheels
Jimmy Richards — My New Found Joy — A&M
Milt Grayson — Your Old Standby - Derby
Sharon Redd — Half As Much - Veep
Jimmy Randolph — You Have To Lose Love — Honey Bee
Gwen Kousar — The Hardway — Stork
Chuck Jackson — Any Other Way — Wand
Bobby Hebb — I Was A Man — Cadet
Marie Knight — I Don't wanna Walk Alone & I Was Born Again — Diamond
Marie Knight — Walk Away — Diamond
Carolyn Franklin — Reality — RCA
John Lucien — What A Difference Love Makes — Columbia
Luv Co — Things Are Not The Same - Spring
Bessie Banks — I Can't Make It Without You — Verve
Perfections — And Then The Sun Went Down — Jubilee
Skyliners — We've Got Love On Our Side — Tortoise
Swordsmen — Grow On Love — RCA
Jive Five — Happy Man - UA
Mavis Staples — It Makes You Wanna Cry & What Happened To The Real Me — Volt
Billy Adams — You And Me — Amy
MVP's — Turning My Heartbeat Up — Buddah
Don Covay — Mercy, Mercy - Rosemart
Chantels — Indian Giver — Verve
Geminis — Can't Let You Go — RCA
Bobbettes — Happy Go Lucky Me - RCA
Don Gardner — Prove It — Sack
Mary Wheeler — Prove It - Calla
Ike Lovely — Fools Hall Of Fame — Wand
Brooks O'Dell — You Better Make Up Your Mind - Bell
Magnificent Men — All Your Lovin's Gone To My Head — Capitol
Lea Roberts — Don't Let Me Fall In Love Alone — UA
Donald Height — Bow N'Arrow — Roulette
Relations — Back To The Beach — Davy Jones
Ronnie Wilson — Boy In A Crowd - Karate
Dee Dee Warwick — We're Doing Fine — Mercury
Dee Dee Warwick — Gotta Get A Hold Of Myself — Mercury
Mary Wells — It Must Be — Jubilee
Mary Wells — Dig The Way I Feel — Jubilee
Le Vons — Everytime - Columbia
Sylvia Robbins — Our Love — Sue
11th Commandment — Why Are You So Hard To Forget — Chess
Ray Garvetta — I Can't Take It — La Vette
Buddy Skipper — Restless Breed - Deesu
Brenda Jo Harris — Play With Fire — Roulette
Dee Clark — Don't walk Away From Me — VJ
Ben E King — So Much Love - Atlantic
Sam Waymon — You Can Count On Me — Ninandy
Ben Monroe — Broken Home - Dakar
Lady Luck & The Lullabies — Young Stranger & Dance - Phillips
Arlene Bailey — Conversation In The Street — Conlo
Mighty Shaine — Call Me Sweet Things - Sue
Junior Lewis — Where Do I Go From Here — Scepter
Ray Fleming — Another Like You & For Better Or Worse - Purdy
Little Anthony & Imperials — It'll Never Be The Same Again — UA
Little Anthony & Imperials — The Change — UA
Cortez & The Entertainers — Life — Your Town
Richard Barbary — LP — A&M
Jean Wells - Try Me And See - Calla

Bits & Pieces - You Should Have Told Me - Paramount
Ollie & The Nightingales - You're Leaving Me - Stax

Edited February 1, 201510 yr by Sean Hampsey

thanks everyone for this incredible information

Always been an important name to me, and one to look out for, since I first picked up a copy of Billy Harner "What About The Music"... crikey, nearly 40 years ago.

His arrangements are usually fabulous.

Pulled together a few which might be of interest to 'Northern Soul' fans where Horace was involved (see below).

Pretty sure there will be others that I've missed.

Would love to be a fly on the wall in that interview :0)

What an INCREDIBLE career.

Best,

Sean

Northern Related Tunes From Horace Ott

Charades — Key To My Happiness — MGM

Bobby Adams — That's The Kind Of Man I Am — Big Bee

Billy Harner — What About The Music — Kama Sutra

Billy Harner — A Message To My Babe — V-Tone

Billy Harner — Everything's Hunky Dory — V-Tone

Helena Ferguson — My Terms — Compass

Helena Ferguson — The Loneliness Is Coming Again — Compass

Celestrials — Keep Your Hands Off My Baby — RCA

Celestrials — Chain Reaction — RCA

Four Bars — Waiting on The Right Guy - Falew

Jackie & The Umpires — Three Kinds Of Love — Sew City

Sylvia St Clair — It Hurts To See You Happy — Brunswick

Chris Hamilton — I've Got To Have Your Love — Bell

Pierre Hunt — I've Got To Have Your love — Golden Wheels

Jimmy Richards — My New Found Joy — A&M

Milt Grayson — Your Old Standby - Derby

Sharon Redd — Half As Much - Veep

Jimmy Randolph — You Have To Lose Love — Honey Bee

Gwen Kousar — The Hardway — Stork

Chuck Jackson — Any Other Way — Wand

Bobby Hebb — I Was A Man — Cadet

Marie Knight — I Don't wanna Walk Alone & I Was Born Again — Diamond

Marie Knight — Walk Away — Diamond

Carolyn Franklin — Reality — RCA

John Lucien — What A Difference Love Makes — Columbia

Luv Co — Things Are Not The Same - Spring

Bessie Banks — I Can't Make It Without You — Verve

Perfections — And Then The Sun Went Down — Jubilee

Skyliners — We've Got Love On Our Side — Tortoise

Swordsmen — Grow On Love — RCA

Jive Five — Happy Man - UA

Mavis Staples — It Makes You Wanna Cry & What Happened To The Real Me — Volt

Billy Adams — You And Me — Amy

MVP's — Turning My Heartbeat Up — Buddah

Don Covay — Mercy, Mercy - Rosemart

Chantels — Indian Giver — Verve

Geminis — Can't Let You Go — RCA

Bobbettes — Happy Go Lucky Me - RCA

Don Gardner — Prove It — Sack

Mary Wheeler — Prove It - Calla

Ike Lovely — Fools Hall Of Fame — Wand

Brooks O'Dell — You Better Make Up Your Mind - Bell

Magnificent Men — All Your Lovin's Gone To My Head — Capitol

Lea Roberts — Don't Let Me Fall In Love Alone — UA

Donald Height — Bow N'Arrow — Roulette

Relations — Back To The Beach — Davy Jones

Ronnie Wilson — Boy In A Crowd - Karate

Dee Dee Warwick — We're Doing Fine — Mercury

Dee Dee Warwick — Gotta Get A Hold Of Myself — Mercury

Mary Wells — It Must Be — Jubilee

Mary Wells — Dig The Way I Feel — Jubilee

Le Vons — Everytime - Columbia

Sylvia Robbins — Our Love — Sue

11th Commandment — Why Are You So Hard To Forget — Chess

Ray Garvetta — I Can't Take It — La Vette

Buddy Skipper — Restless Breed - Deesu

Brenda Jo Harris — Play With Fire — Roulette

Dee Clark — Don't walk Away From Me — VJ

Ben E King — So Much Love - Atlantic

Sam Waymon — You Can Count On Me — Ninandy

Ben Monroe — Broken Home - Dakar

Lady Luck & The Lullabies — Young Stranger & Dance - Phillips

Arlene Bailey — Conversation In The Street — Conlo

Mighty Shaine — Call Me Sweet Things - Sue

Junior Lewis — Where Do I Go From Here — Scepter

Ray Fleming — Another Like You & For Better Or Worse - Purdy

Little Anthony & Imperials — It'll Never Be The Same Again — UA

Little Anthony & Imperials — The Change — UA

Cortez & The Entertainers — Life — Your Town

Richard Barbary — LP — A&M

Good work Sean.

You can add "Say Something Nice To Me" by Bobby Kline to the list.

November 21, 1961 : One of the rare HANK BALLARD sessions

outside of Cincinnati. In New York City he records "Miss Twister"

and "Up And Away", both for the LP "The Twistin' Fools" (King LP

781), released in February 1962. "Hello Lover, Goodbye Tears" from

this session remains unissued. Personnel includes Buddy Lucas

(tenor sax), Mickey Baker (guitar), Ernie Hayes (piano) and Navarro

Hastings (bass). Arranged by Horace Ott.

This any good?

The Ambers - I Love You Baby / Now I'm In Trouble on Verve would be an obvious one if not mentioned before.

He had a hand in writing songs eg one listed by Sean Hampsey above - Chris Hamilton's I've Got To Have Your Love. Great tune co-written by Mr Ott.

I recently read the Sam Cooke biography by Peter Guralnick and recalled he mentioned Horace Ott a few times. I've just checked the book again and it seems he was introduced to Sam by his 'cousin' Don Covay (He was also involved in Don Covay's 1973 album SuperDude). He arranged some syrupy albums for Sam but also did one of my favourite S.C. tracks Baby, Baby, Baby. Most surprising to me was that Horace Ott arranged the 'Cassius Clay' album on Columbia!

He had a hand in writing songs eg one listed by Sean Hampsey above - Chris Hamilton's I've Got To Have Your Love. Great tune co-written by Mr Ott.

That's true, Horace wrote (as well as arranged) many songs.

It's how the Pierre Hunt version of the Chris Hamilton appeared, some years later. It was his record.

Along with others, Horace wrote the following;

Jackie Wilson - I'm Coming Back To You

Jackie wilson - Years From Now

Rocky Fellers - Like The Big Guys Do

Dee Clark - Crossfire Time (along with Don Covay)

Solomon Burke - You're Good For Me (along with Don Covay)

Dee Dee Warwick - We're Doing Fine

Jimmy Randolph — You Have To Lose Love

Arthur Prysock - The Love I Need

And (although he is not credited as such) he actually came up with the original lyric for the classic "Don't Let Me Be Understood" (Nina Simone, Animals etc.).

Quite a talent!

Sean

I think it's crazy how much stuff he was involved with, not even just obscure groups, yet his story is not widely known. certain small regional label owners get much more recognition.

He also did Don Covay's "It's Better To Have". A magnificent career. He seems like a real safe pair of hands which is probably how he managed to evolve over 3 decades or so.

Controversially I think the best arrangement he ever did was on a Gay Disco record - Denis Parker's "Like An Eagle". I actually think the production is a masterpiece and it's subsequently been ripped off on a couple of 90's dance hits. It's not really appropriate for Soul Source but here's the Todd Terje re-edit of the song anyway...

Dennis Parker "Like An Eagle"

https://youtu.be/2VM3LLxVb-Y

A million miles from "Key To My Happiness" but that's what you call a diverse career. He's a major unsung hero in my book.

Ian D

Edited September 8, 201212 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Agree Bob.

Arrangers don't get the props that label owners get, yet they are the true 'creatives' behind the records we all love.

His pedigree is probably up there with the likes of Van McCoy, Bert De Coteaux, Mike Terry, Johnny Pate, Jack Ashford etc.

He needs to know how much his work is loved, appreciated and respected amongst Soul fans, particularly here in the UK

Sean

He also did Don Covay's "It's Better To Have". A magnificent career. He seems like a real safe pair of hands which is probably how he managed to evolve over 3 decades or so.

Controversially I think the best arrangement he ever did was on a Gay Disco record - Denis Parker's "Like An Eagle". I actually think the production is a masterpiece and it's subsequently been ripped off on a couple of 90's dance hits. It's not really appropriate for Soul Source but here is a clip of the song anyway...

Dennis Parker "Like An Eagle"

https://youtu.be/ujbSkWKTuHo

A million miles from "Key To My Happiness" but that's what you call a diverse career. He's a major unsung hero in my book.

Ian D

Wasn't gonna mention the 'Gay Disco' tracks Ian.

Hadn't included Village People 'YMCA' which Horace also arranged, amongst others in the late 70's.

Appreciate you 'filling in the gaps' for us.

Sean

Edited September 8, 201212 yr by Sean Hampsey

Agree Bob.

Arrangers don't get the props that label owners get, yet they are the true 'creatives' behind the records we all love.

His pedigree is probably up there with the likes of Van McCoy, Bert De Coteaux, Mike Terry, Johnny Pate, Jack Ashford etc.

He needs to know how much his work is loved, appreciated and respected amongst Soul fans, particularly here in the UK

Sean

Seconded.

Well, he's still around I think.....

https://www.fyicomminc.com/jazzmen/horace-ott.htm

Ian D

Wasn't gonna mention the 'Gay Disco' tracks Ian.

Appreciate you 'filling in the gaps' for us.

Sean

I bet the Gay Disco stuff earnt him more than the previous 2 decades.I think he probably had more commercial success in the late 70's then previously. I just think he was a brilliant arranger with almost anything that was thrown at him. I mean, if you're gonna make a Richie Family record then do one like this, which is right up there with "Like An Eagle" LOL....

The Richie Family "Quiet Village"

Right, better get back to the Northern ay......?

Ian D

Edited September 8, 201212 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Seconded.

Well, he's still around I think.....

https://www.fyicommin.../horace-ott.htm

Ian D

It would be hard for someone I know to interview him otherwise