Hi Guys, what approx reduction is there in value for a UK Original with the centre punched out?

I have Near Mint Jackie Wilson "Higher and Higher" UK Coral Demo with the centre missing and it got me thinking to what impact this has on value of these.

I have resisted buying records with no centre as prefer the intact item, but sometimes for very rare stuff they might worth a punt I guess?

Yeah?

Having said that, if Darrell Banks on London ain't that rare, then why don't I have a copy? Because of available funds perhaps?

I mean, what does that sell for these days? Also, Timi Yuro, with a centre?

Dunno probably 500 -600 each. There's hardly a week goes by when I don't see a Timi Yuro somewhere. There must be hundreds of them.

I guess it also begs the question do people actually play their records? A UK NC could be used for playing at home, DJ ing etc. and keep the minty one just for the collection

I picked up a stone mint uk demo of a record couple days ago and dare not play the thing for fear of devaluing it!

Are we stamp collectors ? Lol

Edited September 24, 201212 yr by jim g

Dunno probably 500 -600 each. There's hardly a week goes by when I don't see a Timi Yuro somewhere. There must be hundreds of them.

Hmmm? Next time you spot a Timi Yuro and / or a Darrell Banks on London up for grabs, think on and let me know. Ta.

At the risk of getting killed by you guys, I guess the OVO police wouldn't sanction playing a UK copy anyway if it was out in the USA first?! So NC wouldn't matter

But I guess that it is another topic.......

I am now running for the door....

I've always deeJayed with my UK collection. Never had anyone object to me.

Few things look better than a UK copy of a great record (especially a Red & White or a Pink MGM Demo) on the decks.

Besides; UK releases are what the Northern scene started with. Can't get much more 'original' than that!

Sean

Edited September 25, 201212 yr by Sean Hampsey

Not strictly true this Joe, because my discotron, which I still have, has a small centre spindle and has always played Uk 45's with the middle in.

Mr. Barnsfather was also a disciple of the 'knock the middle out' club.

soul sam is from wrexham so maybe it's the wrexham way,

i was sure mine needed the middle knocked out, but i could be wrong, memory is crap nowadays,

i seem to remember you could buy a discotron the size of a car radio and it fit in the glovebox of a mate's rover

i always thought that played 45s with knocked out middle's ( maybe i got that wrong as well )

soul sam is from wrexham so maybe it's the wrexham way,

i was sure mine needed the middle knocked out, but i could be wrong, memory is crap nowadays,

i seem to remember you could buy a discotron the size of a car radio and it fit in the glovebox of a mate's rover

i always thought that played 45s with knocked out middle's ( maybe i got that wrong as well )

Yeah this one I"ve got was used in a car, it's got the record player plus a radio as well.

Shame really, it's in the garage, not been touched for years, though it's an ugly wooden finished one, not a nice chrome one

I completely agree with this Sean. Well put.

I'm pretty sure that all UK releases on sale at Manchester's Mazell's Records back in the early days had their centres pushed out because, if memory serves me right, they were all stacked together by sliding them all onto an iron rod that had a padlock thingy on the end.

No that wasn't the case at Mazels I use to visit Mazels twice a day and bought hundreds of records of them even full collections never remember one without a middle.

I can vaguley rememember somewhere who did have a bar through the middle but it was a thin bar for Uk releases.

I hated people who knocked the middles out, I only saw it prelevant on bootlegs like Soul sounds and I was never interested in them anyway.

I also had a discotron that played UK a bloody big one to drag around on the bus.

Brian

No that wasn't the case at Mazels I use to visit Mazels twice a day and bought hundreds of records of them even full collections never remember one without a middle.

I can vaguley rememember somewhere who did have a bar through the middle but it was a thin bar for Uk releases.

I hated people who knocked the middles out, I only saw it prelevant on bootlegs like Soul sounds and I was never interested in them anyway.

I also had a discotron that played UK a bloody big one to drag around on the bus.

Brian

Where am I thinking of then Brian?

Jim you do the OVO police a disservice as I for one often try to research release dates and it doesnt strictly matter unless it was released specifically for the Northern scene E.G. Capitol record releases in the 70s ERnie Andrews, World Column, HB Barnum etc

The more complex ones are on Pye in the 70s Jobell Orch/ Magic Night as they were new releases full stop both in the US & UK at around the same time and therefore acceptable but the Pye Disco demand series are not as they were again specifically released for the Northen scene years after the US releases.

Where am I thinking of then Brian?

Possibly rare records in Cromford Court before the Arndale was built and it moved, I am talking mid to late 60's.

Brian

Edited September 25, 201212 yr by bri. phill

Possibly rare records in Cromford Court before the Arndale was built and it moved, I am talking mid to late 60's.

Brian

I did most of my record hunting in and around Liverpool on a weekly basis, visiting Manchester about once a month. So, for me, it would have been around the very early 70s. Does that help?

Will admit though, I don't fully remember whether the bar was a suitable diameter for small British sized holes, or larger for the American Imports?

I did most of my record hunting in and around Liverpool on a weekly basis, visiting Manchester about once a month. So, for me, it would have been around the very early 70s. Does that help?

Will admit though, I don't fully remember whether the bar was a suitable diameter for small British sized holes, or larger for the American Imports?

Just remembered pretty sure it was the 78 record exchange that was in Cromford Court but moved when The Arndale was built it eventually finished up in Stockport.

Ralphs or Spin Inn might have done it later on.

I didn't bother going in there in the 70s in fact by then I don't think their was much about.

Brian

Edited September 25, 201212 yr by bri. phill

Just remembered pretty sure it was the 78 record exchange that was in Cromford Court but moved when The Arndale was built it eventually finished up in Stockport.

Ralphs or Spin Inn might have done it later on.

I didn't bother going in there in the 70s in fact by then I don't think their was much about.

Brian

Ralphs and Spin In sound familiar, it might have been one of them.

When I say 70s Brian, I mean 1970 / 1971 (/ 1972 at the latest).

Most of my English collection came from the shops around Liverpool, of which, at one time, there were many. If you include second hand shops as well.

Ah well, never mind, it's all in the past now.

Ralphs and Spin In sound familiar, it might have been one of them.

When I say 70s Brian, I mean 1970 / 1971 (/ 1972 at the latest).

Most of my English collection came from the shops around Liverpool, of which, at one time, there were many. If you include second hand shops as well.

Ah well, never mind, it's all in the past now.

Our office had another branch in Liverpool and I use to go up there on Wednesdays 67/68 and had a few finds up there.

I remember a shop in the Kensington district where I found around 5 Major Lance 45's and some other stuff that I can't just think off plus a few other shops that I was lucky in.

Brian

Our office had another branch in Liverpool and I use to go up there on Wednesdays 67/68 and had a few finds up there.

I remember a shop in the Kensington district where I found around 5 Major Lance 45's and some other stuff that I can't just think off plus a few other shops that I was lucky in.

Brian

Yeah, one particular second hand record shop in Kensington, of which there were at least two, had some brilliant records pass through their racks.

I bought nearly half a collection of absolute mint Soul records on labels like Stateside, Cameo Parkway, Black Atlantic, Red Atlantic, Columbia, Parlophone, Capitol, London, etc, etc, etc, whilst my old pal Frank (RIP) bought the other half. I ended up getting a few of them as well in swops and deals. There were a few shops like that in Liverpool and it somehow felt like me and Frank had them mostly to ourselves, based on the kinda stuff we picked up. Sadly, not like that anymore. You'd be hard pushed to find a handful of that kind of second hand record shop anymore in Liverpool, or elsewhere for that matter.

HI ALL.....I have yet to meet a UK SOUL COLLECTOR, who has not tampered with the Platters, and destroyed RAREand OBSCURE 45s that MATTER!

Having read the post (I Lie) Here are some of my tips, in what I call:- DAVES RULES KO!

a) No matter what you think, NEVER attempt restoration under the influance of CHEMICALS? This includes Roll Up's, someone somwhere has a minty SCOTTS ON SWINGERS RIC-TIC, with 1 blemish, caused by OLD H ash, 1 speck. and you have a white spot?...(the Cherry Blossom, must have worn away by now?)

b) In a simmular vain, SEEING IS BELIEVING, Evidance is needed, ask yourself "am I qualified" the differance between a car mechanic, and engineer is the mechanic can repair a car, the engineer can design a car and make the tools to make it.

c) Replacing a centre in a 45, is realy easy, However STOP & THINK, Ask yourselfm as a kid, did you make AIRFIX KITS, if YES did you get glue on the cockpit? if YES, don't bother, if you never made a ARFIX KIT, When you gad a TOMMY did you use a hankey? or tell your Old Dear it was AIRFIX GLUE? You get my jiz.....st.

d) The proper way is the only way, First, you need to find a correct centre from the same month and year for the label,soak the centre for 36 hours, and carfully remove both side of lable, finger nails are best.

use a needle file to flatern the area on your disc, where the prong sits, while doing this check that the prongs on the centre are long anough to fit 1/64" to long on each is correct, when fitting the centre, use PVA GLUE, NOTHING ELSE!, LEAVE FOR 6 HOURS,

Next step is to check the trueness of the record, sometimes to ensure truenes, a jig can easy be made for this purpos,

e) WHEN YOU ARE SATISFIED, EITHER USE THE LABEL THAT YOU REMOVED,

You should easy make a neat job, if you do the pronds first, again a thin coat of PVA is all that is needed, remove the atr bubles with a rolling action. dabbing will caurse a crease mark?

f)Practice first,

g) It is against my ethos to sell records that have been restored, without telling the buyer, if this stroke is pulled keep the 45, but get your money back,

NEXT WEEK DAVE RULES:- You will need 2 pkt of MORNING GLORY SEEDS,(available from B&Q) and 1 large Nutmeg......

DAVE

Not strictly true this Joe, because my discotron, which I still have, has a small centre spindle and has always played Uk 45's with the middle in.

Mr. Barnsfather was also a disciple of the 'knock the middle out' club.

my discatron has a small spindle too, i also hav the disc narrated by nicholas parsons

Edited September 26, 201212 yr by turntableterra

Jim you do the OVO police a disservice as I for one often try to research release dates and it doesnt strictly matter unless it was released specifically for the Northern scene E.G. Capitol record releases in the 70s ERnie Andrews, World Column, HB Barnum etc

The more complex ones are on Pye in the 70s Jobell Orch/ Magic Night as they were new releases full stop both in the US & UK at around the same time and therefore acceptable but the Pye Disco demand series are not as they were again specifically released for the Northen scene years after the US releases.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I made the comment slightly tounge in cheek as I am not a DJ just a bloke who likes music. I meant no disrespect.

It is a complex subject about which there are plenty of other posts on these pages.

Back on topic, for those with very limited funds for record purchase (like me) if I am honest if I spot a rare one for a low price I would rather have the record with no centre than never at all. I have bought them in the last 2 years as I slowly re started buying records again, after selling my collection 17 years ago cos of divorce.

All of that Polygram group (Atlantic, Philips, Fontana, Polydor etc etc) went over to large centres in 68 with less and less appearing with middles. Don't know why...

Pete

Would the same record on a Polygram group release at that time be issued both with a solid middle or a large hole with spider centre. For example "Candy" by The Astors on the red Atlantic re- issue usually has the large hole but I think I've seen it with a solid middle. I'd much prefer a solid middle even if a large hole is as it was made. If they were is the value the same?

Rick

Could the shop in Manchester with the bar through the centres mentioned by others be Barry's Records in the basement of Hime and Addisons on John Dalton Street. I'm fairly sure they did this for US records but not sure if they did it for UK releases.

Pete

Would the same record on a Polygram group release at that time be issued both with a solid middle or a large hole with spider centre. For example "Candy" by The Astors on the red Atlantic re- issue usually has the large hole but I think I've seen it with a solid middle. I'd much prefer a solid middle even if a large hole is as it was made. If they were is the value the same?

Rick

Could the shop in Manchester with the bar through the centres mentioned by others be Barry's Records in the basement of Hime and Addisons on John Dalton Street. I'm fairly sure they did this for US records but not sure if they did it for UK releases.

Rick, I guess they did a limited run with centres - the one you mention, "Candy", I've actually got that with a centre, you know what though, I have seen less of these than I have black Atlantics and yellow Atlantic demos. Must be super-rare. I've been after a solid centre copy of David Bowie's "Space Oddity" for years, they are outnumbered by large centre copies by a thousand to one I should think.

Could the shop in Manchester with the bar through the centres mentioned by others be Barry's Records in the basement of Hime and Addisons on John Dalton Street. I'm fairly sure they did this for US records but not sure if they did it for UK releases.

Could be Rick, To be honest, now we've heard from Brian re Mazel's, I'm beggining to wonder just where it was??? Defo in Manchester though.

Rick, I guess they did a limited run with centres - the one you mention, "Candy", I've actually got that with a centre, you know what though, I have seen less of these than I have black Atlantics and yellow Atlantic demos. Must be super-rare. I've been after a solid centre copy of David Bowie's "Space Oddity" for years, they are outnumbered by large centre copies by a thousand to one I should think.

Pete

Thanks for the "Candy" pic. Now I'll have to find one ......

Rick

Rick, I guess they did a limited run with centres - the one you mention, "Candy", I've actually got that with a centre, you know what though, I have seen less of these than I have black Atlantics and yellow Atlantic demos. Must be super-rare. I've been after a solid centre copy of David Bowie's "Space Oddity" for years, they are outnumbered by large centre copies by a thousand to one I should think.

Mine's a solid centre so it can't be that rare - I don't do rare !

Mine's a solid centre so it can't be that rare - I don't do rare !

In that case, ignore everything I said.

As I only visited manchester, mid 70's, was it any of these, Tony Just records( also a stand up comedian, with Dave McCadden), oasis market, or Record Collector,near, Victoria station, also, in Blackpool.

As I only visited manchester, mid 70's, was it any of these, Tony Just records( also a stand up comedian, with Dave McCadden), oasis market, or Record Collector,near, Victoria station, also, in Blackpool.

If you're referring to my comments earlier Otis, I've already said, I'm not sure anymore. I'm pretty sure though that it wasn't either of the first two you mentioned.

Pete, think I've discussed the Polygram group no centre issue before, but I'm always looking for Baby Jane - Otis Clay on Atlantic, never seen one with a middle, one sold on Ebay UK this morning for £43. The pushout looks really clean like it never had a middle to start with?

Pete, think I've discussed the Polygram group no centre issue before, but I'm always looking for Baby Jane - Otis Clay on Atlantic, never seen one with a middle, one sold on Ebay UK this morning for £43. The pushout looks really clean like it never had a middle to start with?

Don't believe that was ever pressed with a middle.

Every copy I've seen was pressed without.

A couple of release numbers that followed had centres, but not this one.

Sean

Records from the 50s with middles like this are very collectable, as the middles were very delicate, as you can see this one was on its way out until I rescued it.

Edited September 28, 201212 yr by soulmaguk

i guess uk records are better to look at with the middles intact but us records a lot easier to handle with large centers, no finger marks etc on the vinyl, but i wonder ( not too much ) why the difference between the uk & us, someone somewhere must have decided which was best way to go,

Records from the 50s with middles like this are very collectable, as the middles were very delicate, as you can see this one was on its way out until I rescued it.

Er, yes some are but most aren't - all records came like this up until around 1958 when the round centre was introduced...and the tri centres are solid

Er, yes some are but most aren't - all records came like this up until around 1958 when the round centre was introduced...and the tri centres are solid

thanks pete, was wondering what the year was. this is a Duane Eddy EP.

thanks pete, was wondering what the year was. this is a Duane Eddy EP.

Tis from 58 Sir.

Pete, think I've discussed the Polygram group no centre issue before, but I'm always looking for Baby Jane - Otis Clay on Atlantic, never seen one with a middle, one sold on Ebay UK this morning for £43. The pushout looks really clean like it never had a middle to start with?

usually copies of baby jane came with centers like the 45 in this link..........wrong 45 right middle