Just wondered if there's anything of listing value in this genre, could it one day be of interest to soul fans? will ever sell a big batch of this genre I've been trying to off load for an age? t seems impossible now, but plenty are on independant lables and seems relativly obscure, probably sold in limited no's to a pretty black audience in the uk. I hated the stuff at the time and remember thinking 'if only there was a house mix on this '12'!

anyone collect it? any recconmentdations, is teddy riley the new Messiah?

I wouldn't class this album as New Jack Swing to be honest, or the Tashan album either, the Def Jam stuff (in my view) was more soul/hip-hop oriented. Great album the Chuck Stanley though, especially Real Soon which you posted. This is the type of LP which I bought by the hundreds throughout the 80s, not being a scene person back then, simply somebody who just bought soul music. I've got literally hundreds of New Jack Swing CDs though, many bought 'blind' for peanuts on ebay within the last 6 or 7 years because although a lot of it wasn't that good, the harsh productions and kiddy lyrics and such, in amongst all of that on most of the albums are some serious quality ballads, which makes each one a couple of quid well spent in my book.

Yes, good to see a thread like this on here, definitely.

Roger

We

We didn't Rog, we both dipped into 80's mode, that's all and you know it - come on son, you should know better.

Edited October 26, 201212 yr by Barry

We

We didn't Rog, we both dipped into 80's mode, that's all and you know it - come on son, you should know better.

"Shoud know better"? What are you on about? I hadn't read the thread properly that was all.

It was conversation Barry, not some attempt to have a go at anyone.

"Shoud know better"? What are you on about? I hadn't read the thread properly that was all.

It was conversation Barry, not some attempt to have a go at anyone.

Ooooh!! Tetchy

Come on Rog - would I ever have a go at you?

Ooooh!! Tetchy

Not really, just explaining myself based on your 'you should know better' comment, that was all.

Great when you miss the smiley's off isn't it, people don't know how to take you!!

Fair do's

Great when you miss the smiley's off isn't it, people don't know how to take you!!

Correct.

Anyone who see's the 80s as dodgy knows shit and therefore should be dismissed.

The 80s definitely got a bad rep which wasn't deserved, with you all the way on that one Baz.

I

I'm being a swine here like Ian but - is it?

Who by and why?

Anyone who see's the 80s as dodgy knows shit and therefore should be dismissed.

Yes, of course it is. The machines took over and recording went from analogue to digital thus limiting the influence of old-school 'real' musicians and arrangers.

I've come to the conclusion that the 70's really was the peak in terms of brilliantly produced and arranged black music. The values that were predominant from the late 60's to the mid 70's were mostly gone by the 80's.

Don't get me wrong though. I love many many 80's records but for me the key period in black music was 1969-1975. I simply don't hear the same standard of production values in most 80's recordings.......

Ian D

Nowt wrong with this as a soul tune in my book.

"Peace & Free" by Xavier feat 4 Real was a fantastic record. I put this out when we launched the Streethype label in the early 90's. It sold about 2 copies LOL. But what a brilliant record.......

Xavier feat 4 Real "Peace & Free"

Ian D

Yes that's how I first heard it Ian...I must have been the person who bought one while you kept the other copy!

Joking apart, it was comps like that and ALL the Mastercuts (yep, I have them all) and in particular the "Rare" series + others like them by Expansion (SoulChasers etc) with many other late 80's / early 90's releases that got me started on buying older records in original format that were before my time, so to speak...Leon Ware LP was one of the first from memory with "Why I came to California" (which I might not have heard were it not for the Mastercuts comps) + Bobby Womack Poet 1 & 2 for example.

I think the point I'm making is that having an appreciation for soul (and other music) in all its formats, genres and tempos...60's to current releases... is healthy and bit more enjoyable. Expensive at times too mind! I know less about music each day as just so much out there and expanding faster than the universe!..Well it feels like that sometimes!!!

What was this thread about again? Oh yes. Answer...No it's not all cr@p!

All the best, Steve.

PS...Has anyone mentioned D-Influence yet? They were / are good.

Cool Down Zone were regular customers when I had that stall in Afflecks in Manchester. Used to buy a lot of PIR stuff esp. Jean Carn.

Couple of my faves

when I had that stall in Afflecks in Manchester.

The best market stall ever, funnily enough I had an album in my hand I remember buying off you Rod, the Sir John Roberts album, quite a tough one to find now.

Happy days.

Roger

There are gems out there.

Tracks like the Watergates and Escoffrys should be massive. Far better than most of the shit House tracks that get played on the Northern Scene

Come on Rog - would I ever have a go at you?

yes

Got that Tammy Payne on a 10 inch white label, massive tune in the north west over the years.

And a couple more that those street soul people were all buying.

Those albums and similar were everywhere back then Roger.

I must admit I preferred the street soul and 2-step stuff to the modern stuff played on Northern scene. Cos it was different I guess.

And thinking back to that Sir John track it has given me an excuse to post this up in a similar groove.

Im not so sure this song is really about cherries and bananas

ROD

I've got "Peace & Free" on a Streethype advance 12" ("Keepin' the vibe alive") +" Friends" Secret Diary and rate both of them.

Also like some stuff on Boogie Back Records (Promise, Lalomie Washburn, etc), Base Line (Ocean), Soultown (Mary Rose, Maxeen) & Heaven Sent (De Luxe) PLUS stuff like Chris Glenn's "I Can't Help It" which seems to have been popular in Japan and just about everything from Ola (Onabule) -- "Trust Is All" and "Every Kinda People" (the later only being put out on 12" in France -- by WEA.

Another few tracks I've always liked ......

Nat Augustin -- Obsession

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOl-ncpuJnQ

Robyn Lynn -- Love So Good (Radio Edit )

... think this is a diff mix ....

D-Breez -- Touch

Julianne -- I've Been There

Edited October 27, 201212 yr by Roburt

When Roburt?

Name me a couple of tunes that white punters where dancing to, so I know that we are both on the same page.

I didn't miss many SPs.

Hello all.

My first post on this forum but I felt that this was something I had to reply to. The best way to appreciate 'New Jack Swing' is to understand it as being influenced massively by Hip Hop, and the role of Teddy Riley is critical in understanding how this worked. Having produced Keith Sweat, B Fats, Kool Moe Dee, and had a hand in 'The Show' by Doug.E Fresh & The Get Fresh Crew's 'The Show', his work with Guy and Booby Brown provided a blueprint that many others jumped on to (often quite late - Michael Jackson being the best example).

I remember that in my experience it was a genre that started off resolutely as a narrow genre of interest, and it was ill served by the European Market which often took outstanding tunes (such as Basic Black's 'Whatever It Takes') and sought to soften them horribly. Looking back it is interesting to see how many artists had their music turned in to a 'House' mix - ironically aimed at an apparently different sensibility. The fact was that NJS was made to be danced to - it managed to provide a point at which soul, the blues, gospel and all the other elements intersected with the drive of a Hip Hop beat (obviously itself a product of these musical traditions).

Like any genre, there were duds, but there were some very good records from that period. The first few series issued by 'Mastercuts' (under the expert guidance of Ian Dewhirst) managed to provide a very quick 'capture' of the moment - probably the best of its kind at that time.

Anyway, hello to all, and I'm very glad to be here!

Rob Alias

Hello all.

My first post on this forum but I felt that this was something I had to reply to. The best way to appreciate 'New Jack Swing' is to understand it as being influenced massively by Hip Hop, and the role of Teddy Riley is critical in understanding how this worked. Having produced Keith Sweat, B Fats, Kool Moe Dee, and had a hand in 'The Show' by Doug.E Fresh & The Get Fresh Crew's 'The Show', his work with Guy and Booby Brown provided a blueprint that many others jumped on to (often quite late - Michael Jackson being the best example).

I remember that in my experience it was a genre that started off resolutely as a narrow genre of interest, and it was ill served by the European Market which often took outstanding tunes (such as Basic Black's 'Whatever It Takes') and sought to soften them horribly. Looking back it is interesting to see how many artists had their music turned in to a 'House' mix - ironically aimed at an apparently different sensibility. The fact was that NJS was made to be danced to - it managed to provide a point at which soul, the blues, gospel and all the other elements intersected with the drive of a Hip Hop beat (obviously itself a product of these musical traditions).

Like any genre, there were duds, but there were some very good records from that period. The first few series issued by 'Mastercuts' (under the expert guidance of Ian Dewhirst) managed to provide a very quick 'capture' of the moment - probably the best of its kind at that time.

Anyway, hello to all, and I'm very glad to be here!

Rob Alias

Great first post Rob on a very refreshing thread.

Welcome to the site fella. Hope you enjoy it.

Tracks like the Watergates and Escoffrys should be massive. Far better than most of the shit House tracks that get played on the Northern Scene

i forgot how good the waterstones were, I class most of the stuff I've got on bump 'n groove as house, but I sposse its got a definate street feel, I'm with you on some of the shite that passes as house on the northern scene, its like they think those high end filters on tunes are compemporary when they actually souned so old hat.

I've got "Peace & Free" on a Streethype advance 12" ("Keepin' the vibe alive") +" Friends" Secret Diary and rate both of them.

Also like some stuff on Boogie Back Records (Promise, Lalomie Washburn, etc), Base Line (Ocean), Soultown (Mary Rose, Maxeen) & Heaven Sent (De Luxe) PLUS stuff like Chris Glenn's "I Can't Help It" which seems to have been popular in Japan and just about everything from Ola (Onabule) -- "Trust Is All" and "Every Kinda People" (the later only being put out on 12" in France -- by WEA.

Another few tracks I've always liked ......

Nat Augustin -- Obsession

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOl-ncpuJnQ

Robyn Lynn -- Love So Good (Radio Edit )

... think this is a diff mix ....

D-Breez -- Touch

Julianne -- I've Been There

robin lyn is grt but its out and out garage, in its purest and most brilliant form, which hits on an interesting piont really; there's little difference apart from tempo to what the london massive were doing to what was going on in new jersey at the same time, is there?

Hi Geeselad

And after your opening post and many replies of documented interest and recommendations, little regarding value but some indicating relative obscurity ?

Has this renewed interest encouraged you into keeping hold of em - still.

BTW - (That Lenard Lidell - Keep It Secret is a rather nice timeless modern soul plodder.)

Thanks.

Edited October 28, 201212 yr by Nick Harrison

It's a much maligned decade that has a horrible rep. However, I sell TONS of 80's stuff mainly to other countries so the 80's is popular internationally. So I have to listen to what people want and every so often a fantastic gem leaps out....

Leonard Lidell "Keep It Secret"

Ian D

What is the year of release for this ?

Yeah, we used to put em on at a few of our gigs at the time, a genuine bunch.

Big Danny Canaan was the main guy wasn't he? A top bloke and a real talented producer and artist. He used to work with some good vocalists as well, Faye Brown from Oldbury ws someone I used to play in a band with who worked with Danny. Danny toured with Bitty McClean as their bass player.

Jordi

Big Danny Canaan was the main guy wasn't he? A top bloke and a real talented producer and artist. He used to work with some good vocalists as well, Faye Brown from Oldbury ws someone I used to play in a band with who worked with Danny. Danny toured with Bitty McClean as their bass player.

Jordi

Nice when someonone backs yer blag up Jordi - ta

What is the year of release for this ?

Original release was on an e.p. in 1983. Even the 12" boot from 1990 is going for £40 these days.......

https://www.discogs.com/Lenard-Lidell-Keep-It-Secret-When-Youve-Fallen-Out-Of-Love/release/1762428

Ian D

Original release was on an e.p. in 1983. Even the 12" boot from 1990 is going for £40 these days.......

https://www.discogs.c...release/1762428

Ian D

Thanks Ian , rather nice it is too, but being from 1983 means it is from an era prior to swing beat , street soul , proto-house and the other post mid 80s genres .... and probably explans why it's a quality tune ...

Edited October 29, 201212 yr by sunnysoul

Big Danny Canaan was the main guy wasn't he? A top bloke and a real talented producer and artist. He used to work with some good vocalists as well, Faye Brown from Oldbury ws someone I used to play in a band with who worked with Danny. Danny toured with Bitty McClean as their bass player.

Jordi

Yes, good guy, he always used to personally deliver his new tracks to me when I was playing mountains of this stuff at Gas in Cheltenham in the 90's...and Barry knows where most of my imports came from...:-)

A few faves...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNFk_qGwcVw

Cheers,

Mark R