Out of interest as this has bugged me for some time now, what content of 'rare soul' does an event have to have to call itself a rare soul do? I mean, is the word rare applied because it's not something which you can hear down your local pub everynight.............. or is it because you can actually expect to hear 4, 8, 12 maybe rare sounds?

Think I just confused myself there now

Well I didnt think it would be so hard to answer! Maybe we need to define what is a rare record first? think there is already a thread for that one running on here.

Another question, can DJ's be rare? like if someone only DJ's once a year but is really good, then are they a rare DJ?

Well I didnt think it would be so hard to answer! Maybe we need to define what is a rare record first? think there is already a thread for that one running on here.

Another question, can DJ's be rare? like if someone only DJ's once a year but is really good, then are they a rare DJ?

come on, can anyone help janine?

no sarcastic comments please

ok i will have a go, i think the term 'rare' is as opposed to what you would hear at your local tiffanys.

anyone like to add?

Shane

I assume that a Rare Soul night as opposed to a Northern Soul night, would be one where the music is less likely to be the well known standards type fair available at a northern night. Mind you a few Rare nights in a row, and it gets to be the same old songs played, just like the much maligned (on here) oldies night.

I was chatting to two lads who run the soul nights in Symonds Yat. I was asking them about low attendances and they were undeterred. Determined that the quality of the music wouldnt suffer just to get a few more people paying.

It my snobbish opinion, that this is the real Northern Soul, not played out bog standards that joe public tap their feet to while watching cat food ads. Not that I dont love oldies. I do.

Mikey, sitting on the fence again.

Edited February 15, 200619 yr by in town Mikey

come on, can anyone help janine?

no sarcastic comments please

ok i will have a go, i think the term 'rare' is as opposed to what you would hear at your local tiffanys.

anyone like to add?

Shane

I always thought it was used as a replacement for "Northern Soul" taking the event away from the stigma(?) of oldies events. Certainly was used for that reason in Scotland mid-late 80's.

Derek

Another question, can DJ's be rare? like if someone only DJ's once a year but is really good, then are they a rare DJ?

You're funny.

How about a DJ who rarely plays a good record? Are they a rare DJ as well?

I always thought it was used as a replacement for "Northern Soul" taking the event away from the stigma(?) of oldies events. Certainly was used for that reason in Scotland mid-late 80's.

Derek

====================

Interesting, not heard that before

It's the same as the use of 'modern soul' as a terminology. To many it simply refers to music that doesn't come under 60s/northern banner.

I always thought it was used as a replacement for "Northern Soul" taking the event away from the stigma(?) of oldies events.

//////////////////////////

sort of what i thought too and to encompass music that wasnt traditional 'northern' to be played

Out of interest as this has bugged me for some time now, what content of 'rare soul' does an event have to have to call itself a rare soul do? I mean, is the word rare applied because it's not something which you can hear down your local pub everynight.............. or is it because you can actually expect to hear 4, 8, 12 maybe rare sounds?

Think I just confused myself there now

as the concept of rare is different for each individual due to geography,and what that individual has heard b4 this is how i see it.if i see a venue for northern soul ill go and expect to hear maybe 20-30 minutes of stuff ive never heard b4.if i see a venue for a rare soul nite id go and expect at least half the night to be sounds ive not heard b4.ive been to venues where the majority are singing along and ive never heard and ive heard stuff that maybe the guy next to me has not. i suppose it means that im conditioned to expect more from a "rare" soul night than from a "northern". imovco only of course.

ok i will have a go, i think the term 'rare' is as opposed to what you would hear at your local tiffanys.

My local tiffanys sell Diamonds Double,s in pints

Steve

Rare Soul is Northern Soul, used in the 80's as already said to get away from "Northern" tag. In the scheme of things most of the records on the scene are rare in comparison to other scenes.

. In the scheme of things most of the records on the scene are rare in comparison to other scenes.

As I thought really, thanks

As I thought really, thanks

For me the difference lies in the expectations of punters. Returnees will recognise the term 'Northern' and will expect the traditional 'Northern' as may be defined by PeteS. Rare soul for me at least is more about the rarity in terms of how hard they are to obtain and how rarely they are heard. The tempo is less important than at a Northern Event but the 'Soul' is more important. Some records from the rare scene are compatable with the term 'Northern' many are not. Many records that are compatable with the term 'Northern' are not soulful but are rare.

Hope that clears that one up now I'll sort out the peace process in the middle east

For me the difference lies in the expectations of punters. Returnees will recognise the term 'Northern' and will expect the traditional 'Northern' as may be defined by PeteS. Rare soul for me at least is more about the rarity in terms of how hard they are to obtain and how rarely they are heard. The tempo is less important than at a Northern Event but the 'Soul' is more important. Some records from the rare scene are compatable with the term 'Northern' many are not. Many records that are compatable with the term 'Northern' are not soulful but are rare.

Hope that clears that one up now I'll sort out the peace process in the middle east

Your probably right with regards to todays scene Ged. The returnees who left a Northern Scene at say the end of Wigan or earlier returned to find a "Rare" scene dominated by finds and plays from the Stafford and 80's Rare Soul Scene but they wanted what they left behind causing this confusion between rare and northern. Think it was Derek who mentioned that the term Rare was adopted to get away from the oldies culture and to distinguish the oldies from the 80's newies scene.

Nowadays it could be interpreted as just a promoting ploy of some promoters to maybe sound a little different? give their venue that extra edge?

was it richard searling that said 'rare, as in quality not quantity'?

Shane

In my view, a rare soul event does not mean that you will hear total obscurites/unknowns all night - a lot of quality oldies are as rare as any present day discoveries.

What it does mean, is that you are making it evidently clear to any possible attendees that it will not be the usual overplayed oldies that they may be used to hearing at their local Northern Soul night.

If I described Bidds Allniter as a Northern Soul Allnighter I would be flooded out with local soulies wanting to hear 'Right track', 'Wade in the water' and the like, so rather than using the term to 'give my venue an edge', I use it to ensure that everybody has a fairly good idea what to expect....

I also personally think that 'Connesseurs Night' is the type of term used to try and give your venue an edge.

No doubt some-one will disagree....(Chalks.... )

In my view, a rare soul event does not mean that you will hear total obscurites/unknowns all night - a lot of quality oldies are as rare as any present day discoveries.

What it does mean, is that you are making it evidently clear to any possible attendees that it will not be the usual overplayed oldies that they may be used to hearing at their local Northern Soul night.

If I described Bidds Allniter as a Northern Soul Allnighter I would be flooded out with local soulies wanting to hear 'Right track', 'Wade in the water' and the like, so rather than using the term to 'give my venue an edge', I use it to ensure that everybody has a fairly good idea what to expect....

I also personally think that 'Connesseurs Night' is the type of term used to try and give your venue an edge.

No doubt some-one will disagree....(Chalks.... )

Not me mate, I think we are a actually agreeing for once

But I personally don't like then term "connoisseur" (noun an expert judge in matters of taste). Its a term, which without intending to do so, sets certain people apart from others, or should I say other people may view so called connoisseurs differently from others when in fact they are no different from anyone else on the scene.

Edited February 15, 200619 yr by chalky

Not me mate, I think we are a actually agreeing for once

But I personally don't like then term "connoisseur" (noun an expert judge in matters of taste). Its a term, which without intending to do so, sets certain people apart from others, or should I say other people may view so called connoisseurs differently from others when in fact they are no different from anyone else on the scene.

F*ck - I did a spell check and copied and pasted from the spell checker - but copied and pasted the way I first spelt it, not the way it should be spelt.

Can't believe I went to all that trouble and still f*cked up the spelling

If a do is advertised as Rare I expect it not to be the same old same old.

I expect the DJ's to be playing Original Vinyl not CD's,boots or pressings because those aren't rare.

If a do is advertised as Rare I expect it not to be the same old same old.

I expect the DJ's to be playing Original Vinyl not CD's,boots or pressings because those aren't rare.

That goes without saying I would have thought

F*ck - I did a spell check and copied and pasted from the spell checker - but copied and pasted the way I first spelt it, not the way it should be spelt.

Can't believe I went to all that trouble and still f*cked up the spelling

Don't worry Mace, I do that all the time LOL

Not me mate, I think we are a actually agreeing for once

But I personally don't like then term "connoisseur" (noun an expert judge in matters of taste). Its a term, which without intending to do so, sets certain people apart from others, or should I say other people may view so called connoisseurs differently from others when in fact they are no different from anyone else on the scene.

Nowt wrong with the teminology or the definition Chalky.

I first heard the terms Rare Soul and Connoisseur used by Searling early 80's at Wigan and refered to very obscure 60's records such as Larry Clinton , Johnny Rogers , Jimmy Burns , Al Williams , Lester Tipton etc. .

These were the sounds that the standard Northern or Oldies freaks would ignore or were just too mainstream to pick up on.

By 2am the floor would be very sparsley filled but for a hand full of "5 percenters" "Connoisseurs" or "Rare Soul" fans.

I'ts this combination of high quality rare (obscure) soul , written , arranged and delivered by some of the most talented production teams in (mainly) North America that deserved the tag "Rare" soul .

The word Connoisseur is for me , a better and more broadly used term and suggests that the individual or groups of people have more than just a basic understanding and appreciation of soul music and will delve a lot deeper .

Kev J

Edited February 15, 200619 yr by ZTSC

The word Connoisseur is for me , a better and more broadly used term and suggests that the individual or groups of people have more than just a basic understanding and appreciation of soul music and will delve a lot deeper .

Kev J

I like to think that along with the likes of yourself I'm included in your description but I just consider myself a lover of soul music...

I like it anyway

I like to think that along with the likes of yourself I'm included in your description but I just consider myself a lover of soul music...

I like it anyway

It goes without saying and you know what I mean Chalky.

I'ts like I say to people all of the time when a special record is played "you don't need Butch to tell you that this is a good un"

CONN - I - SEWERS !!!!!!!!

It goes without saying and you know what I mean Chalky.

I'ts like I say to people all of the time when a special record is played "you don't need Butch to tell you that this is a good un"

CONN - I - SEWERS !!!!!!!!

yep I know what you mean Kev

Edited February 15, 200619 yr by chalky

yep I know what you mean Kev

Hey yeah lets start calling it "Special Soul"

(well I like it )

come on, can anyone help janine?

no sarcastic comments please

ok i will have a go, i think the term 'rare' is as opposed to what you would hear at your local tiffanys.

anyone like to add?

Shane

thats me f##ked then

Hey yeah lets start calling it "Special Soul"

(well I like it )

For special people

I also personally think that 'Connesseurs Night' is the type of term used to try and give your venue an edge.

Nope, the only edge it will give you is less punters IMO - whether they be northern, rare modern or crossover goers - connoisseurs is a crap term if you want to put a night on - fine to stay at home with ....

Nope, the only edge it will give you is less punters IMO - whether they be northern, rare modern or crossover goers - connoisseurs is a crap term if you want to put a night on - fine to stay at home with ....

We tried it a few times - got too many in the house !

Small , discreet, dark cellar bars are just the job.

Another question, can DJ's be rare?

Only if you don't cook them properly

when you live in the north east its not hard to be a conny sewer,when you listen to the mainstream c**p played up here,apart from a FEW conny sewers,its garbage.

I've read all the posts on this topic and have to agree with Ged and Chalky, my background is one of the "Rare Soul" scene as opposed to the traditional "Northern" scene (of course i've attended and fully enjoyed such nights/nighters over the years). I suppose it comes down to personal choice in the area of Rare Soul that you choose to collect and also in the events you choose to frequent.

Not certain if that answers the question Janine, but for events that follow that "rare" policy i'd suggest the Greatstone/Lifeline/Soulsville..to name but three (no doubt plenty of others.......but i'm tired )

Brett

I dunno.

I see it like this:

Doesn't the term rare soul justify a dealer charging 300 quid for something no one knows, when the term northern soul justifies a dealer charging £300 for something everyone, ( and his dog) knows.

Hammy

wow well there have certainly been some very good and valid views in this discussion, so many so that im still not 100% sure what a rare soul event actually is, I know what I like and enjoy but am never too sure what if any lable should be put on it

really must get to greatstone one night, cheers brett

Out of interest as this has bugged me for some time now, what content of 'rare soul' does an event have to have to call itself a rare soul do? I mean, is the word rare applied because it's not something which you can hear down your local pub everynight.............. or is it because you can actually expect to hear 4, 8, 12 maybe rare sounds?

Think I just confused myself there now

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was alway's under the impression that Rare Soul was the term used for our music & the scene in general before the term Northern Soul was coined.

I also agree with others with regard to the term being utilized again in the eighties, to get back to the basics aswell as to differentiate a venue from the run of the mill soul night/nighter playing mostly played out oldies.

I personally didnt distinguish one venue from another in recent times because of the terminology used on the flyer, but reading some of these posts maybe I should be. I like the term Rare Soul, but IMO its just another way of saying Northern Soul. We are all part of a Rare Soul Scene after all whether you agree with the terminology or not. I also prefer R Searlings interpretation of the term Rare Soul, in as much as it refers to the 'Rare' quality within a soul record that distinguishes it from mainstream soul records & when I say mainstream soul records Im refering to non Northern Soul records as opposed to NS records that are crap.

If you can make any sense of that at all you deserve a medal , but those that can decipher my verballings , its my opinion for what its worth.

Any way, who gives a toss we're all special if we're into this kinda music, Rare or Northern !!!.

Russ

Edited February 17, 200619 yr by Russ Vickers

To me a Rare record is hard to find, not many copies or has that extra something you can't quite describe and is infrequently played at venue's. Sometime's but not alway's the record maybe owned by just 2 or 3 collector's/ DJ's, making it impossible to be played at venue's on a regular basis, thus it is infrequently or rarely encounted.

The same is IMO of a Rare Soul Event, I would expect to hear Dj's that put in that extra something searching out and not afraid to play lesser know or slightly different sound's. The importance being on the quality and diversity, this can cover a vast range of record's played. Not just cover up's, high priced or 1 of 3 known copie's, but also a vast amount of lower priced record's fall into this category as well. It is not alway's a good thing to play safe when Djing and try to fill the dance floor, more importantly it is about bringing new or lesser known sound's for people to enjoy, so next time they hear it they hopefully will dance.

We frequently hear the title elitist or snob given to people who collect vinyl or like something a bit different to the standard Oldie's, which of course in most cases is not true, IMO people who have not progressed or moved on within the music are the one's most likely to throw out these title's. When infact most Rare soul fan's have not turned their back's on Oldie's, but have just developed and fed a need to delve deeper into the bottomless pit of the broad term, "Northern Soul". A connoisseur night is not a good term for a venue as this seperate's people in a snobbish way. To be a connoisseur of the music is somebody we can all admire and learn from, but this only bring's respect to the person for their knowledge not right's to feel above everybody else.

IMO

Karen

SO THERE YOU BLOODY GO IT TAKES A WOMAN TO PUT IT IN A NUTSHELL,JOKE KAREN,YOU MADE THE POINT VERY CLEARLY.

SO THERE YOU BLOODY GO IT TAKES A WOMAN TO PUT IT IN A NUTSHELL,JOKE KAREN,YOU MADE THE POINT VERY CLEARLY.

Agreed

We tried it a few times - got too many in the house !

Small , discreet, dark cellar bars are just the job.

Ooooh, small dark dingy cellar bars.......I love 'em

I find putting 'Strokey Beard Soul Night' usually alerts people to the sort of soul that will be played............

coz I can't spell Conasewers........

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was alway's under the impression that Rare Soul was the term used for our music & the scene in general before the term Northern Soul was coined.

I also agree with others with regard to the term being utilized again in the eighties, to get back to the basics aswell as to differentiate a venue from the run of the mill soul night/nighter playing mostly played out oldies.

I personally didnt distinguish one venue from another in recent times because of the terminology used on the flyer, but reading some of these posts maybe I should be. I like the term Rare Soul, but IMO its just another way of saying Northern Soul. We are all part of a Rare Soul Scene after all whether you agree with the terminology or not. I also prefer R Searlings interpretation of the term Rare Soul, in as much as it refers to the 'Rare' quality within a soul record that distinguishes it from mainstream soul records & when I say mainstream soul records Im refering to non Northern Soul records as opposed to NS records that are crap.

If you can make any sense of that at all you deserve a medal

, but those that can decipher my verballings , its my opinion for what its worth.

Any way, who gives a toss we're all special if we're into this kinda music, Rare or Northern !!!.

Russ

Russ, you are a special person.....

stay special..........

x

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was alway's under the impression that Rare Soul was the term used for our music & the scene in general before the term Northern Soul was coined.

If you can make any sense of that at all you deserve a medal , but those that can decipher my verballings , its my opinion for what its worth.

Any way, who gives a toss we're all special if we're into this kinda music, Rare or Northern !!!.

Russ

Makes perfect sense to me Russ. Geographic's play a part, I've used rare to define as against say mainstream radio soul so local new blood have some idea what not to expect. Ads purely for the sophisticated; then maybe different tact. How rare is it, that's all relative to the ultimate unreleased acetate track isn't it? As for going to hear lesser known stuff you can't guarantee that 100%, one mans newie is someone else's overplayed elsewhere, depends how far people travel to attend your nite. All the snazzy wordplay doesn't make the night, if its good music and what most people want they'll come back in hopefully your target breakeven figures and your night will keep running. Mmm maybe stop calling our night rare on SS and we use term 'cross the board' sometimes, coz we like hearing stuff from different spectrums of Northern in one room on one night, not necessarily the obvious same ol safe ones rolled to to diminish that term. Maybe we should go back to the old days when record titles were included on poster, then theres no confusion.

Danny

To me a Rare record is hard to find, not many copies or has that extra something you can't quite describe and is infrequently played at venue's. Sometime's but not alway's the record maybe owned by just 2 or 3 collector's/ DJ's, making it impossible to be played at venue's on a regular basis, thus it is infrequently or rarely encounted.

The same is IMO of a Rare Soul Event, I would expect to hear Dj's that put in that extra something searching out and not afraid to play lesser know or slightly different sound's. The importance being on the quality and diversity, this can cover a vast range of record's played. Not just cover up's, high priced or 1 of 3 known copie's, but also a vast amount of lower priced record's fall into this category as well. It is not alway's a good thing to play safe when Djing and try to fill the dance floor, more importantly it is about bringing new or lesser known sound's for people to enjoy, so next time they hear it they hopefully will dance.

We frequently hear the title elitist or snob given to people who collect vinyl or like something a bit different to the standard Oldie's, which of course in most cases is not true, IMO people who have not progressed or moved on within the music are the one's most likely to throw out these title's. When infact most Rare soul fan's have not turned their back's on Oldie's, but have just developed and fed a need to delve deeper into the bottomless pit of the broad term, "Northern Soul". A connoisseur night is not a good term for a venue as this seperate's people in a snobbish way. To be a connoisseur of the music is somebody we can all admire and learn from, but this only bring's respect to the person for their knowledge not right's to feel above everybody else.

IMO

Karen

[/quote Well ,you have just saved me doing a lot of typing karen Well said. I totally agree with all the above

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was alway's under the impression that Rare Soul was the term used for our music & the scene in general before the term Northern Soul was coined.

I also agree with others with regard to the term being utilized again in the eighties, to get back to the basics aswell as to differentiate a venue from the run of the mill soul night/nighter playing mostly played out oldies.

I personally didnt distinguish one venue from another in recent times because of the terminology used on the flyer, but reading some of these posts maybe I should be. I like the term Rare Soul, but IMO its just another way of saying Northern Soul. We are all part of a Rare Soul Scene after all whether you agree with the terminology or not. I also prefer R Searlings interpretation of the term Rare Soul, in as much as it refers to the 'Rare' quality within a soul record that distinguishes it from mainstream soul records & when I say mainstream soul records Im refering to non Northern Soul records as opposed to NS records that are crap.

If you can make any sense of that at all you deserve a medal , but those that can decipher my verballings , its my opinion for what its worth.

Any way, who gives a toss we're all special if we're into this kinda music, Rare or Northern !!!.

Russ

Agree with you on this. About time someone pointed out that there was a scene embracing this genre before all them up NORF hijacked it !! . Lets remember it started down south, moved up to us carrott crunchers, who i must add, gave it a great big shove at the CHATEAU IMPNEY near Droitwitch (a venue that seems to get overlooked in books on the subject) & finally ended up in the NORF where being stuck in there cotton mill ways, they couldn't let it go & embrace the change to funk !!

Also i find i use the term Rare Soul out of a bit of embarasment really. Because if ever you mentioned that you liked Northern Soul, most people invaribly reply with something like, " Wot ? like that Wigins Ovation & Judy Street ? yeh I like that as well " So i prefer to use the term Rare Soul, as in most of it is rarer than anything you hear on the radio or at the local 'Hero's & Slappers Disco'.

I reckon we ought to start a campaigne to reinstate the term RARE SOUL & take it back from the NORF !!

"We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Chorley, we shall fight on the nuclear contaminated seas & canals, we shall fight with growing confidence & strength in the polluted air. We will fight for it's return, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the slag heaps, we shall fight in the fields ( if you can find any ) ,we shall fight in those rolling cotton mill hills so beautifuly portraid on This England. We shall never surrender !! untill we have reinstated the term RARE SOUL !!!

Better get me tin hat out again !!!

What it does mean, is that you are making it evidently clear to any possible attendees that it will not be the usual overplayed oldies that they may be used to hearing at their local Northern Soul night.

If I described Bidds Allniter as a Northern Soul Allnighter I would be flooded out with local soulies wanting to hear 'Right track', 'Wade in the water' and the like, so rather than using the term to 'give my venue an edge', I use it to ensure that everybody has a fairly good idea what to expect....

Every promoter that puts his money and time on the line has the right to put on an event of their choice and decide on the music policy.

I just think that with the inevitable decline in the scene over time if we split into categories and discourage one type of soulie from attending certain events will we hasten the decline.

Is it better to have a broad range of music played which means something for everyone.

As a punter it is easy to moan because we do not see what has gone into organising an event.

Simple answers...................how i look at it.

Northern soul - More a revival scene, mainly revolves around nostalgia.

Rare soul - A 'scene' based around the northern soul scene, with more of a thirst for 'rare' (not always rare as in maybe 3/4 copys but rarely herd too) soul music.

This is just my sort of view on it

'It started down south' Love it I even have a piece of paper signed by Dave G stating this and appologising for calling it Northern

Simple answers...................how i look at it.

Northern soul - More a revival scene, mainly revolves around nostalgia.

Rare soul - A 'scene' based around the northern soul scene, with more of a thirst for 'rare' (not always rare as in maybe 3/4 copys but rarely herd too) soul music.

This is just my sort of view on it

In a nut shell, thats covered it baz

lets face it if there was a bonafide rare night of ones and twos cpopies etc thers only a small handfull of DJs that could play there... in the world.

Geeoooordie

Bloody hell ! I have enough trouble trying to explain what northern soul is to people who are not into it. If you stick your fork in and it bleeds it's probably rare. It will take a bit of chewing but but there's plenty of protein in there. I like mine medium with (green) onion rings and button mushrooms, and now and again very well done.

Kind regards, Mr McGoo

Edited February 28, 200619 yr by kent soul club

Bloody hell ! I have enough trouble trying to explain what northern soul is to people who are not into it. If you stick your fork in and it bleeds it's probably rare. It will take a bit of chewing but but there's plenty of protein in there. I like mine medium with (green) onion rings and button mushrooms, and now and again very well done.

Kind regards, Mr McGoo

Not quite as you would think, it being rare, should just melt in your mouth.....the more its cooked....the more chewable it is.......its sacralige were talking about beef right