https://cgi.ebay.com/Dennis-Edwards-I-Didnt...1QQcmdZViewItem

some more silly buggers buying things they dont know are shit

https://cgi.ebay.com/Dennis-Edwards-I-Didnt...1QQcmdZViewItem

some more silly buggers buying things they dont know are shit

Is this a boot for sure, Gasher?

John Manship's boot guide says the bootleg has Black Label with silver lettering. Perhaps new boots in circulation?? What do u think?

Carl

Hmmmm, looks original to me - but rather too clean and I'm suspicious of seller who says he doesn't know if original or not. Maybe history of record would help.

Thanks for pointing it out though - I'm looking for one and Manship's auction got a bit too steep.

John

Is this a boot for sure, Gasher?

John Manship's boot guide says the bootleg has Black Label with silver lettering. Perhaps new boots in circulation?? What do u think?

Carl

Sure these were done at the same time as Magnetics lady in green and When ium with my baby and a few others

Sure these were done at the same time as Magnetics lady in green and When ium with my baby and a few others

I saw this and was convinced it is a boot because I thought that the original is matrix stamped with symbol and not a number.................could be wrong though ?

You have to say that the item was sold in a deliberately dubious way and who the hell pays over $1K for something like this.

This looks like the "lookalike boot" that came out about 5 years back-----dont know for certain ,might be wrong

I saw this and was convinced it is a boot because I thought that the original is matrix stamped with symbol and not a number.................could be wrong though ?

You have to say that the item was sold in a deliberately dubious way and who the hell pays over $1K for something like this.

Original has number T4KM-1728 not T4KM-1729

Original has number T4KM-1728 not T4KM-1729

This is why some of us collect UK labels. Not exclusively, but whenever possible. Because you NEVER get this problem with UK labels. Some might get re-issued but NEVER booted.

If you look at the original the typset is all wrong the dead wax is massive on both sides.. there is no definative dip in the label like the original even the credits are different layout..

its a boot....way to clean also..

the I of International has no gap between the I and the n compared to the very obvious one on the real copy

The S in SoulvillE is a different shape JUST FATTER to the real one..come on guys Stevie wonder can see its a boot

have a look at Manships 1594 completed auctions..TOTALLY DIFFERENT OK HIS IS A DEMO BUT

CHALK AND CHEESE..AND LETS FACE IT WHO WOULD GET A REAL ISSUE FOR £600???

THINK ABOOT IT

Edited March 19, 200619 yr by the gasher

I saw this and was convinced it is a boot because I thought that the original is matrix stamped with symbol and not a number.................could be wrong though ?

You have to say that the item was sold in a deliberately dubious way and who the hell pays over $1K for something like this.

IDIOTS THATS WHO

AND LETS FACE IT WHO WOULD GET A REAL ISSUE FOR £600???

THINK ABOOT IT

Whereas £600 for a boot is an absolute bargain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you could have a game of five a side on that dead wax

If you look at the original the typset is all wrong the dead wax is massive on both sides.. there is no definative dip in the label like the original even the credits are different layout..

its a boot....way to clean also..

the I of International has no gap between the I and the n compared to the very obvious one on the real copy

The S in SoulvillE is a different shape JUST FATTER to the real one..come on guys Stevie wonder can see its a boot

have a look at Manships 1594 completed auctions..TOTALLY DIFFERENT OK HIS IS A DEMO BUT

CHALK AND CHEESE..AND LETS FACE IT WHO WOULD GET A REAL ISSUE FOR £600???

THINK ABOOT IT

Totally different to the one i just auctioned https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/rarest-of-the-rare/17 The ebay offering looks like a NEW repro to me. The Elusions he's selling at the 'mo is certainly a bootleg. The other earlier Dennis Edwards bootleg is BLACK with SILVER text. This looks like something new to me, like the recent DAYBREAK deal. Nothing about it gives me confidence that it's the REAL DEAL even has the BEVELLED edge run-in..abd the deadwax is far too wide. PS original STOCK copies are BLACK with SILVER TEXT MIke H. is the only guy i know who has a copy

Edited March 19, 200619 yr by john manship

Is this a boot for sure, Gasher?

John Manship's boot guide says the bootleg has Black Label with silver lettering. Perhaps new boots in circulation?? What do u think?

Carl

The vinyl is so shiny and new looking on the ebay one, you can see the reflection of the geezers shirt in it. And he has bad nails.

shame the boy who bought it is a private ebayer - don't think you can email them.

this is a disgrace...digusting...when will people learn...etc etc

Totally different to the one i just auctioned https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/rarest-of-the-rare/17 The ebay offering looks like a NEW repro to me. The Elusions he's selling at the 'mo is certainly a bootleg. The other earlier Dennis Edwards bootleg is BLACK with SILVER text. This looks like something new to me, like the recent DAYBREAK deal. Nothing about it gives me confidence that it's the REAL DEAL even has the BEVELLED edge run-in..abd the deadwax is far too wide. PS original STOCK copies are BLACK with SILVER TEXT MIke H. is the only guy i know who has a copy

Any plans to update the bootleg/pressings/re-issue book John?.....

Any plans to update the bootleg/pressings/re-issue book John?.....

That Bootleg booklet is now over 7 years old and desperately needs replacing. I've been working on a new book for 3 years "Collecting Northern Soul" which will have colour scans on every bootleg and original and all the deadwax info, even including deadwax WIDTH in mm. As you can imagine it's a long job.. but should be ready in 12 months . essential with all these e-bay sellers vaguely describing 45s. A friend of mine just paid £300 for Gwen & Ray bootleg so the sooner i get it on the market the better.

Those white ones have been around for years. If they haven't, I've sold 2 originals for £6 each

Those white ones have been around for years. If they haven't, I've sold 2 originals for £6 each

Wierd, had tons of black copies, never the white one.. if you get another white copy or anyone has one: can I buy it?? So's I can documernt it correctly. Guess it's the same masterplate etc and from the same source.

PS Pete call me Monday when U get a minute.. I have something 4U.. john

Guess it's the same masterplate etc and from the same source.

Less deadwax on black one.

I think those white ones did not see the light of day when they were done at least 10 years ago because there was such a fuss kicked up over here about them. i a certain very large dealer from Lancs was involved along with a well known Detroit based recording engineer aledgedly

That Bootleg booklet is now over 7 years old and desperately needs replacing. I've been working on a new book for 3 years "Collecting Northern Soul" which will have colour scans on every bootleg and original and all the deadwax info, even including deadwax WIDTH in mm. As you can imagine it's a long job.. but should be ready in 12 months . essential with all these e-bay sellers vaguely describing 45s. A friend of mine just paid £300 for Gwen & Ray bootleg so the sooner i get it on the market the better.

I think those white ones did not see the light of day when they were done at least 10 years ago because there was such a fuss kicked up over here about them. i a certain very large dealer from Lancs was involved along with a well known Detroit based recording engineer aledgedly

Hi Ted

Gotta say when I saw this on e-bay that's EXACTLY what I thought. I remember that 'Large Dealer from Lancs' having white copies about the same time as the black bootlegs surfaced

Baz M

Here`s a copy of the Boot that came out back end of the 90s

Dave f..............

Original copy

Dave f.................

The guy from the North-East got a lucky escape,feel sorry for the fool who's bought it though,just hope someone has managed to let him know the score.

Here`s a copy of the Boot that came out back end of the 90s

Dave f..............

I was def. the early 90's can any one remember what was also done at the same time.

Less deadwax on black one.

WHITE BOOTLEG copy.

Can some send me a BOOT of the white copy so's I can take the info off it. I've only ever had the BLACK boot in stock.. Of coarse you'll get the record back with some web-site credit..

Phone me if you can supply a copy for loan. john

Edited March 20, 200619 yr by john manship

WHITE BOOTLEG copy.

The white boots have been around for a few years, I thought only a few had been drip fed out....there was a strong rumour at the time someone pressed 100 of them up and let a handful out passing them off as originals (and of course making a lot of money) - memory's not as good as it was, but I think that's the jist of it.

That shop in Ann Arbor btw is where I got Pages and Garland Green UNI LP for next to nowt a few years ago when I was breezing through.

The white boots have been around for a few years, I thought only a few had been drip fed out....there was a strong rumour at the time someone pressed 100 of them up and let a handful out passing them off as originals (and of course making a lot of money) - memory's not as good as it was, but I think that's the jist of it.

That shop in Ann Arbor btw is where I got Pages and Garland Green UNI LP for next to nowt a few years ago when I was breezing through.

steve,

i've been there too, wasn't that where Dave Withers had that amazing find with The Magnetics - lady in green.. don't seem like the sorta shop to intentionally rip someone off.. john

The seller states he's unsure, so maybe an email from some-one to the seller including a link to this thread might ensure that the auction is cancelled and the buyer doesn't get stitched up?

Ive been saying this for ages- With technoology as it is and being so cheap to make you can make any record you want and pass it off as an original and unless you can carbon date the plastic their are always going to be doubts.

Question to Mr manship? - How do you drop a price guide of a record from £1000.00 to £200.00 without testing that all the copies found or sold are original pressings? Just interested

you can't carbon date vinyl or styrene unfortunately. but nice idea and i agree completely that counterfeiting is going to get more serious...huge values on records, new technology, worldwide interest...it's inevitable.

CHANGE THE RECORD ERNIE..NOBODY CARBON DATES VINYL

TAKE A WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE CHECK..

HAHA

LET ME SEE YOUR TEST RESULTS ON PAPER

THEN WE MIGHT START TO BELIEVE YOU

EVEN IF IT WAS PLAUSIBLE OR FEASABILE OR EVEN POSSIBLE

WHY YOU WOULD GO AND GET IT TESTED ON A £100 RECORD IS BEYOND ME YOU ARE TOTALLY NUTS ....

Edited March 20, 200619 yr by the gasher

THANKS DAN IVE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR MONTHS TRYING TO TELL MY MATE ERNIE ANDREWS

MY MATE CHRIS GUNNACLIFFE IS THE HEAD FORENSIC SCIENTIST FOR THE GRAMPIAN POLICE BASED IN ABERDEEN AND HE ALSO CONFIRMED IT CANT BE DONE

BUT MADDDDDDD DOG ECCKERS HAS TOLD US HE HAD HIS FRED HYMES TESTED AFTER HE BOUGHT IT OFF SOUL SAM..WEVE NEVER SEEN THE RESULTS ON PAPER YET.HAHAH WONDER WHY EH???

you can't carbon date vinyl or styrene unfortunately. but nice idea and i agree completely that counterfeiting is going to get more serious...huge values on records, new technology, worldwide interest...it's inevitable.

CHANGE THE RECORD ERNIE..NOBODY CARBON DATES VINYL

TAKE A WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE CHECK..

HAHA

LET ME SEE YOUR TEST RESULTS ON PAPER

THEN WE MIGHT START TO BELIEVE YOU

WHY YOU WOULD GO AND GET IT TESTED ON A £100 RECORD IS BEYOND ME YOU ARE TOTALLY NUTS ....

Morning Richie- Haha ha

Well if you dont call it carbon dating I dont know what they call it but they put a laser through the discs and told me one was older than the other by about 30 years ( They usually do it with bone)

Edited March 20, 200619 yr by Ernie Andrews

Morning Richie- Haha ha

Well if you dont call it carbon dating I dont know what they call it but they put a laser through the discs and told me one was older than the other by about 30 years ( They usually do it with bone)

it isn't carbon dating, whatever it is.

carbon dating works on carbon-based materials which took their oxygen from the air in the last few thousand years. plastic is based on oil, which is 'old carbon', coming from plants etc from millions of years ago.

would be interested to know what it was, though

BULLSHIT..THATS WHAT I THINK IT IS

I CAN SMEL IT A MILE OFF..ESPECIALLY WITH A NOSE THE SIZE OF MINE

LASER BOLLOCKS..CAN TELL YOU ITS ABOUT 30 YEARS OLDER BY SHINING THROUGH A RECORD.. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEN BEWARE OF THE FLYING PIGE SHITTING ON YOUR HEAD.

YOU DESERVE IT..IT WILL BE A MASS SPECTROMETER NEXT ..

wrong end of stick seized

soz

Edited March 20, 200619 yr by Dan

This is why some of us collect UK labels. Not exclusively, but whenever possible. Because you NEVER get this problem with UK labels. Some might get re-issued but NEVER booted.

some r quite close though

what about

john e paul----------i wanna know

paula parfett---------love is wonderful

danny williams---------who,s little girl are you

all booted and for a non uk buyer look pretty close copies ????????

++++++++++cafc we need a miracle now+++++++++++++++++++

DAN THIS IS ONE OF MY BEST MATES ECCKERS ANDREWS....

ITS ALL IN GOOD JEST..ITS A STANDING

JOKE IN ABERDEEN SO DONT GET ALL DEFENSIVE ITS ONLY A WIND UP....

WERE HAVIN A GIRRAFFE

PS IF IT COST MORE THAN THE RECORD WHICH IM SURE IT WOULD THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT...

tone it down a bit richie

everyone entitled to opinion without being accused of bullshitting and talking bollocks etc

while i don't think carbon dating is the right term, there are other radioactive isotopes which can be identified in a similar way (apparently) so may not be as mad as you suggest. though probably v expensive.

dan

DAN THIS IS ONE OF MY BEST MATES ECCKERS ANDREWS....

ITS ALL IN GOOD JEST..ITS A STANDING

JOKE IN ABERDEEN SO DONT GET ALL DEFENSIVE ITS ONLY A WIND UP....

WERE HAVIN A GIRRAFFE

PS IF IT COST MORE THAN THE RECORD WHICH IM SURE IT WOULD THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT...

ah sorry boys...

you can't carbon date vinyl or styrene unfortunately. but nice idea and i agree completely that counterfeiting is going to get more serious...huge values on records, new technology, worldwide interest...it's inevitable.

Hi Dan,

just moving off the thread a tad....i worked for a company who worked at a macro molecular level with polymers and they did date it..they actually developed controlled lifetime plastics but in order to do this they developed systems to date polyolefines...just an add on...how technology moves on eh

geoooordie

The seller states he's unsure, so maybe an email from some-one to the seller including a link to this thread might ensure that the auction is cancelled and the buyer doesn't get stitched up?

Auction expired last night mate. Buyer could not be contacted, we tried. Poor dumb bast*rd...

Simsy...

poor bugger certainly.... but Dumb ..come on...thats a bit strong plenty of major collectors and delaers have been duped with records in the past i certainly wouldnt call them dumb...johnny watson its better to cry four vandals etc

Geeooordie

Hi Dan,

just moving off the thread a tad....i worked for a company who worked at a macro molecular level with polymers and they did date it..they actually developed controlled lifetime plastics but in order to do this they developed systems to date polyolefines...just an add on...how technology moves on eh

geoooordie

yeh i think they can do it but it's not 'carbon dating' geordie, that was my only point. it's some other method using radioactive isotopes other than carbon-14...(or so i read on the internet )

Simsy...

poor bugger certainly.... but Dumb ..come on...thats a bit strong plenty of major collectors and delaers have been duped with records in the past i certainly wouldnt call them dumb...johnny watson its better to cry four vandals etc

Geeooordie

I dunno Geordie. Over a thousand dollars for a boot? He must have known something about rare soul records to be bidding in the first place. There is a host of tell tell signs and if that wasn't enough the seller said "we're not sure if it's an original" and the guy still paid over a grand and you don't think that's dumb? Okay, I mean I feel sorry for the bloke, how's naive sound ...?

I was def. the early 90's can any one remember what was also done at the same time.

Ted you could be right i should have just put 90s

i know i got it sometime in the 90s i think they were around £10 at the time,

i mailed both seller and buyer about this but not heard anything back yet.

Dave f.............

ah sorry boys...

Sent you a pm Dan- The Gasher is a close friend of mine- BUt God knows what my colleague did then in that lab. Maybe Ill never know. As I said he owed me one

Wierd, had tons of black copies, never the white one.. if you get another white copy or anyone has one: can I buy it?? So's I can documernt it correctly. Guess it's the same masterplate etc and from the same source.

PS Pete call me Monday when U get a minute.. I have something 4U.. john

John I tried a few times last week...will ring soon as I get a sec

some r quite close though

what about

john e paul----------i wanna know

paula parfett---------love is wonderful

danny williams---------who,s little girl are you

all booted and for a non uk buyer look pretty close copies ????????

++++++++++cafc we need a miracle now+++++++++++++++++++

John E Paul and danny Williams aren't bootlegs, they were pressed by Decca specifically for the northern scene. Easy to tell as the matrix isn't inverted above the catalogue number on the reissues. Micky Moonshine was also repressed by them.