Recently attended a 'do' and the DJ played what is one of my all timers

Deon Jackson - Someday The Sun Will Shine.

It was on a 10" White Labelled affair. Would this be legit or 'something else'

I understood that this Track was never released and as far as I am aware only 1 Acetate exists, which by all accounts is in a dreadful condition.

Anyone any thoughts ??

Tezza

I can help with this as I was the first person ever to play this in the UK about 22 or 23 years ago as I got a copy from the person who found it - Martin Coppell in Toronto

Only one original acetate exists which came from Martin C in Toronto

Ive seen the acetate when i visited Martin many years ago, and from memory it was an Atlantic Acetate and pretty beat up

From this acetate Ron Murphy in Detroit cut 2 copies (i think from memory) for Martin

I got one of these copies, but unsure where the other one went

I sold mine about 15 years ago for a couple of hundred quid and I Kitch also cut a copy from mine

God knows how many copies are out there, but in summary, 1 original acetate and then 2 copy acetates cut by Ron Murphy - then ?

Hope this helps

Jim

I've done at least 6 or 7 of them and had one for sale this week! Did them about 7 or 8 years ago and one turned up again.

It's also been on at least three of my podcasts in complete form so anyone can have recorded it off there as well.

Edited January 18, 201312 yr by Pete S

didnt nige parker have a acetate of this at one time ?

I've done at least 6 or 7 of them and had one for sale this week! Did them about 7 or 8 years ago and one turned up again.

It's also been on at least three of my podcasts in complete form so anyone can have recorded it off there as well.

how much we're you selling them for pete

Jim

Tezza

I can help with this as I was the first person ever to play this in the UK about 22 or 23 years ago as I got a copy from the person who found it - Martin Coppell in Toronto

Only one original acetate exists which came from Martin C in Toronto

Ive seen the acetate when i visited Martin many years ago, and from memory it was an Atlantic Acetate and pretty beat up

From this acetate Ron Murphy in Detroit cut 2 copies (i think from memory) for Martin

I got one of these copies, but unsure where the other one went

I sold mine about 15 years ago for a couple of hundred quid and I Kitch also cut a copy from mine

God knows how many copies are out there, but in summary, 1 original acetate and then 2 copy acetates cut by Ron Murphy - then ?

Hope this helps

Jim

Cheers Jim,

Love that record !!

Cheers Jim,

Love that record !!

yes it is a nice tune Tezza

how much we're you selling them for pete

Jim

They cost 20 to make and I sold them for 25

"dj specials"

The one I had this week was 15 or 20

Edited January 18, 201312 yr by Pete S

They cost 20 to make and I sold them for 25

"dj specials"

The one I had this week was 15 or 20

cheers pete

cheers pete

By the way, those didn't come from that original acetate, the recording was different with hardly any of that slight 'swoosh' that was on the first ones I heard, I think it's the same take but definitely not the same recording

N

By the way, those didn't come from that original acetate, the recording was different with hardly any of that slight 'swoosh' that was on the first ones I heard, I think it's the same take but definitely not the same recording

not sure what you mean Pete by "swoosh"

Think Carl Fortnum owns the original acetate

Lovely tune

Nnot sure what you mean Pete by "swoosh"

Can't explain it any better than 'swoosh' sorry

On the podcast below at around 26 minutes, this is the recording that people have been dubbing off

https://www.mixcloud.com/mayfairmenthol/for-northern-soul-connoisseurs-everywhere/

Think Carl Fortnum owns the original acetate

Lovely tune

He does......or did

Can't explain it any better than 'swoosh' sorry

On the podcast below at around 26 minutes, this is the recording that people have been dubbing off

https://www.mixcloud.com/mayfairmenthol/for-northern-soul-connoisseurs-everywhere/

thanks pete will give it a listen later

thanks pete will give it a listen later

This is a good podcast actually Jim, I think every track is unreleased or was at the time plus there's a couple on there that nobody else had got when I did it. Share The faith! And still nobody knows who the vocal of The Right Kind is by

https://www.popsike.com/Deon-Jackson-Someday-The-Sun-Will-Shine-Northern-Soul/140408496530.html

What is this all about?

Richard

https://www.popsike.c...0408496530.html

What is this all about?

Richard

He says what it's all about in the description - a one sided carver with a label stuck on it!

Think Carl Fortnum owns the original acetate

Lovely tune

like i said didn't come from nige parker ?

Cut your own, its on the Cd?

Tezza

I can help with this as I was the first person ever to play this in the UK about 22 or 23 years ago as I got a copy from the person who found it - Martin Coppell in Toronto

Only one original acetate exists which came from Martin C in Toronto

Ive seen the acetate when i visited Martin many years ago, and from memory it was an Atlantic Acetate and pretty beat up

From this acetate Ron Murphy in Detroit cut 2 copies (i think from memory) for Martin

I got one of these copies, but unsure where the other one went

I sold mine about 15 years ago for a couple of hundred quid and I Kitch also cut a copy from mine

God knows how many copies are out there, but in summary, 1 original acetate and then 2 copy acetates cut by Ron Murphy - then ?

Hope this helps

Jim

The acetate was sent over to Tim Brown by Martin. I think three acetates cut and passed onto DJs.

The acetate was sent over to Tim Brown by Martin. I think three acetates cut and passed onto DJs.

hi chalky

Yes it was sent over to Tim Brown eventually and as I say I recall here being 2 direct acetates cut by Ron Murphy, but there may have been 3

Jim

hi chalky

Yes it was sent over to Tim Brown eventually and as I say I recall here being 2 direct acetates cut by Ron Murphy, but there may have been 3

Jim

I think the three were three additional ones when it came over here, could be wrong, long time ago.

Mmm, probably loads around then

carl fortnum does own the original the laquer is peeling on the run in and is very brittle he got it from gary spencer when he sold up

Keith Money has one and is a regular play of his, fantastic track.

carl fortnum does own the original the laquer is peeling on the run in and is very brittle he got it from gary spencer when he sold up

So should Carl not be the only one playing this out?

So should Carl not be the only one playing this out?

Some would say yes, but as it's unreleased it's a bit of a free for all in a low grade chancerish way.

The world of the unissued sounds and one off acetates and copies being cut is a murky one isn't it ?

Pete's podcast is there to show just how many great artists made some top tunes ,that have never really had their day in the sun ,purely because of this grey area.

I've heard so many stories about people paying out silly money for the exclusivity of owning a copy they can supposedly call legit ?

I've contacted people personally to ask for permission to have cuts made of certain things that have been unissued ,people who own the rights for songs that are cd only etc .

Guess what ," yes Nev ,just get one made and play it out ,it can only help promote the music"

Sadly I've never got round to doing it ,partly cos I'm either too busy and partly because I can't be arsed with people twisting on about politics if you play it out .

We can argue that someone owns the acetate ,so he owns the rights ? But does that give him the right to charge a silly amount to give permission for a cut ,and isn't the cut them a re-issue ?

Owning a acetate IMHO does'nt constitute owning rights to a artists song ?

You bought a disc ,not a copyright .

On the other hand ,if your a dj and have the disc ,then you have the means of total exclusivity ,as long as you can keep the sound from being recorded unscrupulously and then reproduced.

But once that sound does get reproduced ,you lose the exclusivity and have no legal right ,but then it becomes a soul police issue .

Murky world ,but it goes on and it's very sad !

Cd tracks being touted as C/U ..carvers with authentic looking labels to give the impression they are legit acetates ..

My heads hurting just thinking about it .

P.s I was gonna end it with Lol ,but sadly it's not funny

The world of the unissued sounds and one off acetates and copies being cut is a murky one isn't it ?

Pete's podcast is there to show just how many great artists made some top tunes ,that have never really had their day in the sun ,purely because of this grey area.

I've heard so many stories about people paying out silly money for the exclusivity of owning a copy they can supposedly call legit ?

I've contacted people personally to ask for permission to have cuts made of certain things that have been unissued ,people who own the rights for songs that are cd only etc .

Guess what ," yes Nev ,just get one made and play it out ,it can only help promote the music"

Sadly I've never got round to doing it ,partly cos I'm either too busy and partly because I can't be arsed with people twisting on about politics if you play it out .

We can argue that someone owns the acetate ,so he owns the rights ? But does that give him the right to charge a silly amount to give permission for a cut ,and isn't the cut them a re-issue ?

Owning a acetate IMHO does'nt constitute owning rights to a artists song ?

You bought a disc ,not a copyright .

On the other hand ,if your a dj and have the disc ,then you have the means of total exclusivity ,as long as you can keep the sound from being recorded unscrupulously and then reproduced.

But once that sound does get reproduced ,you lose the exclusivity and have no legal right ,but then it becomes a soul police issue .

Murky world ,but it goes on and it's very sad !

Cd tracks being touted as C/U ..carvers with authentic looking labels to give the impression they are legit acetates ..

My heads hurting just thinking about it .

P.s I was gonna end it with Lol ,but sadly it's not funny

very well put Nev

If it exists on an acetate it is no different to owning the only known copy IMO and I would imagine the opinion of the majority of collectors and DJs. If the owner has had some cut and given to others then that is a different matter I guess. But to say it is ok to play when you get a cut done from a dodgy tape recording or something then it's the same as playing a boot IMO.

Keith Money has one and is a regular play of his, fantastic track.

Mine came via Gary Spencer when he sold up so wheteher he cut it for himself to DJ with I am not sure.

Keith

The world of the unissued sounds and one off acetates and copies being cut is a murky one isn't it ?

Pete's podcast is there to show just how many great artists made some top tunes ,that have never really had their day in the sun ,purely because of this grey area.

I've heard so many stories about people paying out silly money for the exclusivity of owning a copy they can supposedly call legit ?

I've contacted people personally to ask for permission to have cuts made of certain things that have been unissued ,people who own the rights for songs that are cd only etc .

Guess what ," yes Nev ,just get one made and play it out ,it can only help promote the music"

Sadly I've never got round to doing it ,partly cos I'm either too busy and partly because I can't be arsed with people twisting on about politics if you play it out .

We can argue that someone owns the acetate ,so he owns the rights ? But does that give him the right to charge a silly amount to give permission for a cut ,and isn't the cut them a re-issue ?

Owning a acetate IMHO does'nt constitute owning rights to a artists song ?

You bought a disc ,not a copyright .

On the other hand ,if your a dj and have the disc ,then you have the means of total exclusivity ,as long as you can keep the sound from being recorded unscrupulously and then reproduced.

But once that sound does get reproduced ,you lose the exclusivity and have no legal right ,but then it becomes a soul police issue .

Murky world ,but it goes on and it's very sad !

Cd tracks being touted as C/U ..carvers with authentic looking labels to give the impression they are legit acetates ..

My heads hurting just thinking about it .

P.s I was gonna end it with Lol ,but sadly it's not funny

If you get the permission of the rights holder to get a cut done of an unissued cd track then all well and good, it promotes the cd and maybe help generate sales.

To get a cut done of a track on an acetate owned by say Butch, Andy D or in this case Carl Fortnum is akin to playing a boot. Being the collector you are Nev you should know and appreciate that.

If you get the permission of the rights holder to get a cut done of an unissued cd track then all well and good, it promotes the cd and maybe help generate sales.

To get a cut done of a track on an acetate owned by say Butch, Andy D or in this case Carl Fortnum is akin to playing a boot. Being the collector you are Nev you should know and appreciate that.

I do know that and I have too much respect and appreciation for a dj to even contemplate going there .

The grey area is when the dj himself makes cuts and hands em out to friends or paying punters ,it's not original but it's ok cos he gave permission ?

As soon as that first cut is made and played ,that's it ,the doors opened and so and so makes cuts for his friend ,then the business man gets the sound ,it gets re-issued and the whole thing becomes a farce !

I myself have a 45 cut from a unissued song ,but I don't own the acetate ,have played it amongst friends ,but wouldn't dream of playing it in a set ,at a venue that I'd been asked to dj at .

Sadly I would love to because its a great song that will probably never see the light of day ,because the guy who outbid me for it would not answer a message I sent him and having asked around ,don't even know who it was

But I do know for a fact ,I wasn't the only one who got a mp3 of the song ,so one day eh lol

If you get the permission of the rights holder to get a cut done of an unissued cd track then all well and good, it promotes the cd and maybe help generate sales.

To get a cut done of a track on an acetate owned by say Butch, Andy D or in this case Carl Fortnum is akin to playing a boot. Being the collector you are Nev you should know and appreciate that.

I tend to agree with Chalky on this - its more like a boot when its been cut, recut, recut, recut etc.

In saying that i must admit that I did play my copy (which came direct from Martin Coppell 22 years ago - see start of thread) a couple of times, but i felt this was acceptable due to the circumstances of it being only just discovered and was unplayed in the UK so exclusive

IF i still had my original copy (which Ron Murphy cut), i would still feel comfortable playing it ONLY because of the circumstances that i got it under 22 years ago

If i had never had it and just obtained one of the Cut "cuts", then i wouldnt dream of playing it

hope this makes sense

jim

DJs playing carvers are no different than DJs playing bootlegs. NO ifs, buts or excuses !!!!

DJs playing carvers are no different than DJs playing bootlegs. NO ifs, buts or excuses !!!!

What if you turn up at a venue with a cd only tune and theres no cd player ?

DJs playing carvers are no different than DJs playing bootlegs. NO ifs, buts or excuses !!!!

Bollocks.

Its this type of dogmatic static rule drivel that quite rightly turns this into a farce.

Two records prove the above is someone who doesn't get all nighters.

Mello Souls and CODS, records that thrived due to carvers done,

I repeat, more people arguing for OVO don't get it than those who don't care!

More gin doctor.

PS I did tell everyone on a number of occasions that it was Mr O'Hara that first had Deon Jackson, apologies on the back of a fiver for those thousands that didnt believe me. Although I did say it was from Ron Murphy direct, so at least Jim has told the whole truth and nothing but.....

PPS and before I get the barrage of usual abuse, if you have to ask, forget it.

I've always loved this, and am genuinely surprised this never got an official "legal" U.K. release, who owns the rights to it - Atlantic, Deon Jackson, Ron Murphy?? I'm surprised this hasn't shown up on any "legal" C.D.'s considering who the artist is

Des Parker

Edited January 22, 201312 yr by SOUL.INC

I've always loved this, and am genuinely surprised this never got an official "legal" U.K. release, who owns the rights to it - Atlantic, Deon Jackson, Ron Murphy?? I'm surprised this hasn't shown up on any "legal" C.D.'s considering who the artist is

Des Parker

I am pretty sure I have it on CD, the legality is a different question, I seem to remember it having a fairly home made looking cover, maybe wrong. I will try and dig it out tonight.

I am pretty sure I have it on CD, the legality is a different question, I seem to remember it having a fairly home made looking cover, maybe wrong. I will try and dig it out tonight.

Your right Jock. I bought the CD many moons ago for this track at Camden Market in London and there isn't much info on it and seriously looks like a copy and not an original, still got it somewhere.

Lenny

I am pretty sure I have it on CD, the legality is a different question, I seem to remember it having a fairly home made looking cover, maybe wrong. I will try and dig it out tonight.

"Detroit Dynamite" on Maple Street. Bootleg label. Very good sound quality of Deon Jackson tho. Guess that's where soundfiles for most carvers were sourced from

"Detroit Dynamite" on Maple Street. Bootleg label. Very good sound quality of Deon Jackson tho. Guess that's where soundfiles for most carvers were sourced from

They did some great compilations of ABC material as well. Based in Canada. A lot of the early carvers (actually acetates, this was pre carvers) came from a recorded Richard Searling radio show.

They did some great compilations of ABC material as well. Based in Canada. A lot of the early carvers (actually acetates, this was pre carvers) came from a recorded Richard Searling radio show.

When RS played it on his radio show he either talked over bits of it or played with the volume to avoid bootlegging didn't he? I think it was when Keith Money guested?

When RS played it on his radio show he either talked over bits of it or played with the volume to avoid bootlegging didn't he? I think it was when Keith Money guested?

Can't remember, was probably 20 years ago...I lived 250 miles away from the broadcast so only heard things on cassette a while after

Edited January 22, 201312 yr by Pete S

What if you turn up at a venue with a cd only tune and theres no cd player ?

If you're asked to DJ at a venue you would surely check before hand that they had the equipment to play your tunes on.

I remember Tim having this in his draw up there in Tod I thought it was on a bellsound acetate I can confirm that it did looked buggered when he showed it me though.He'd got it on hold but i think it was a swop for something rather than dough seing Tim in a day or two will ask what he remembers .great recording shame it didn't get a release I alway's thought he sounded like George Pepp on this recording regards Simon.

What about an unissued track - not on acetate, or CD?

How about getting one of those cut so you can play it on disc?

Then how about playing it out?

Cheers

Richard

It's also on youtube so I supose it's widely open to abuse by bootleggers or anyone wanting a carver regards S.