Although not a great fan of the genre, I do not hear much of it from any DJ that works for us. Is it completely dead?

Although not a great fan of the genre, I do not hear much of it from any DJ that works for us. Is it completely dead?

link

Not down our neck of the woods Mr Kevin The R&B still gets the feet a moving but not with the masses, it's back to the hardcore and the enlightend methinks Now, Sponge Bob Square Pants is on so I'm off.......OOOOOOOOOOH! Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?...

Although not a great fan of the genre, I do not hear much of it from any DJ that works for us. Is it completely dead?

link

Roger Banks, Mace, Dave Rimmer and Carl Willingham all play regular R & B sets and the Hideaway and Flipside boys seem to get good turn outs every time they are on, not my cup of tea but it seems to be alive and well

Chris W

Although not a great fan of the genre, I do not hear much of it from any DJ that works for us. Is it completely dead?

link

Hope so

Roger Banks, Mace, Dave Rimmer and Carl Willingham all play regular R & B sets and the Hideaway and Flipside boys seem to get good turn outs every time they are on, not my cup of tea but it seems to be alive and well

Chris W

link

Heard Carl a couple of times recently and he's tended to stick to the more soulful stuff, some good stuff at that.

Not my cup of tea either, well not the real low down R&B that did seem to get popular over the last few years, Don GArdner - Boogaloo, Leo Price etc. Each to their own at the end of the day.

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by chalky

Kev, For what it's worth i think the answer is simple.... it's like there is now a totally seperate scene and venues which cater for the R'n'B groove, people know my thoughts on the subject as i did write an item on this for Manifesto a few years ago which did upset a few people. My points were honest and i feel i had some knowledge and background on the style as myself and the likes of Roger Banks did push certain tracks in the R'n'B style on the mainstream Northern scene, what i will say is that the records played by us at least had a connection to the roots of the scene, were perhaps a little bit more hard edged but did have SOUL content i.e Nat Hall, Dorothy Williams, Hayes Cotton, Big Daddy Rogers, Curly Moore etc. etc.

My basic point was as with all styles of music within the scene and to be inovators you have to maintain a standard and quality of music to move forward, some of the so called R'n'B simply is void of any real quality, records like Dean Barlow, Barbara Dane, Larry Trider etc. in my opinion are very sub standard and at best very average records, but if it floats peoples boats then who are we to dish the music they enjoy?

Dated,late 50's often not even records of Black origin seem to be passed off as R'n'B and again have nothing to do with the Northern scene, bench mark records in this style have to be the likes of Jimmy Robins, Bobby Bland,Bud Harper etc. etc.

Lastly if we take the best bits for all stlyes and eras then if some of the R'n'B 45's are of a quality then i see no reason to include them in the mix at the venues.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Dead? no no no no no - not in my house!

It's alive and kicking.

Hottest sound in the South (and whenever I've played it in the North) is Luther Ingram's 'Oh Baby Don't You Weep' but as Tim Brown says Wilson Pickett's LP version is better, we've probably got it wrong again.

Dead? no no no no no - not in my house! 

It's alive and kicking.

link

No not dead, not my cup of tea either, I do have my favourites, but would much prefer to hear a nice slab of crossover, or a rip roaring piece of classic Detroit, or a 60's mid tempo floater........ each unto there own.

JM

Hottest sound in the South (and whenever I've played it in the North) is Luther Ingram's 'Oh Baby Don't You Weep' but as Tim Brown says Wilson Pickett's LP version is better, we've probably got it wrong again.

link

Yes, Yes ,Yes!

The Wilson Pickett version is my favortie R&B sound at the moment. I got it on a german 45 last weekend and I'm playing it all the time.

So if anyone wants the UK Best of LP with this great song on it let me know.

Hottest sound in the South (and whenever I've played it in the North) is Luther Ingram's 'Oh Baby Don't You Weep' but as Tim Brown says Wilson Pickett's LP version is better, we've probably got it wrong again.

link

:diablo: Too bloody right Ady! You've still not released it yet and this despite my grovelling and pleading :angry: I bet you Tim would have released it- nah nah nah nah nah!!!

Is R&B dead..... personally don't think so.... if it was would Mr Ovenchip split his site/listings to give it it's own section?

Unfortunately some DJs take the term R&B in the loosest sense and play some right old drivel....

This in turn encourages the 'I hate R&B' crowd to slag off everything that falls under the r&b banner.

It's usually this crowd that swears that they hate R&B, and that it's all Rock and Roll/Country and Western, that are the first to run for the dancefloor when a DJ plays any of the following R&B tunes...

Don Gardner - My Baby Likes To Boogaloo

Jimmy Robins - I Cant' Please You

Mickie Champion - What Good Am I

Five Royales - Catch That Teardrop

Joe Tex - I Wanna Be Free

Bud Harper - Wherever You Were

Etta James - Seven Day Fool

Betti Lou & Bobby Adams - Dr Truelove

Buddy Ace - True Love Money Cant Buy

Larry Davis - I've Been Hurt Too Many Times

All popular tracks, all R&B.

It all depends on the DJ in the long run...

I think sometimes it's down to them trying so hard to find new tracks/obscurities, that the lesser quality stuff slips through.

The records quoted above (Larry Trider, Dean Barlow and Barbara Redd) arn't R&B tracks inmho.... they are pop at worst, rock and roll at best (the flip of Barbara Redd is the better track imo, but it is too rock and roll)....

But then i'm gonna defend it as I play and promote it....

If anyone wants a list of quality playable Northern style R&B, let me know and I'll rattle one off.

WOOF!

This in turn encourages the 'I hate R&B' crowd to slag off everything that falls under the r&b banner.

It's usually this crowd that swears that they hate R&B, and that it's all Rock and Roll/Country and Western, that are the first to run for the dancefloor when a DJ plays any of the following R&B tunes...

Don Gardner - My Baby Likes To Boogaloo

Jimmy Robins - I Cant' Please You

Mickie Champion - What Good Am I

Five Royales - Catch That Teardrop

Joe Tex - I Wanna Be Free

Bud Harper - Wherever You Were

Etta James - Seven Day Fool

Betti Lou & Bobby Adams - Dr Truelove

Buddy Ace - True Love Money Cant Buy

Larry Davis - I've Been Hurt Too Many Times

All popular tracks, all R&B.

The records quoted above (Larry Trider, Dean Barlow and Barbara Redd) arn't R&B tracks inmho.... they are pop at worst, rock and roll at best (the flip of Barbara Redd is the better track imo, but it is too rock and roll)....

But then i'm gonna defend it as I play and promote it....

If anyone wants a list of quality playable Northern style R&B, let me know and I'll rattle one off.

WOOF!

link

I thankyou Mr Dog, I have friends who say they hate R&B yet jump up and dance to the tracks you have mentioned.Also how on earth does anyone think Dean Barlow is R&B ????? I get sick of people saying it is.

Bud Harper - Wherever You Were

Never thought of this as R&B and won't consider it R&B. Not in the style of Don Gardner, Leo Price etc which is the style of R&B I hate and feels has no place in a Northern Soul venue. Mickie Champion (as above) never classed it as R&B, out and out Northern Soul IMO. As I said earlier, each to their own. If we all liked the same stuff would be pretty boring

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by chalky

Bet Chalky says Mickie Champion ain't r&b....lol

Also how on earth does anyone think Dean Barlow is R&B ????? I get sick of people saying it is.

It's shit! Is that better Karen

Bet Chalky says Mickie Champion ain't r&b....lol

link

told you so...

Mickie Champion is actually a cover version of an early R&B track...

WOOF!

Also how on earth does anyone think Dean Barlow is R&B ????? I get sick of people saying it is.

link

It's shit!  Is that better Karen     

link

Yep, much better thankyou Chalky

And while were slagging R&B records off.... Barbara Dane isnt R&B either.... its jazzzz.....

And it packs many a Northern dancefloor...

WOOF!

And i think 'Nick Nack Paddy Wack' is shit as well....

Give the dog a bone, indeed.

WOOF!

told you so...

Mickie Champion is actually a cover version of an early R&B track...

WOOF!

link

I know and maybe so but Mickies version IMO is no longer R&B in the same sense as it's earlier release. Out and out NS IMO

Do people read the threads before posting or what on here....lol

I tried to give an overview...sorry, i'll get my coat.

Mark Bicknell.

I know and maybe so but Mickies version IMO is no longer R&B in the same sense as it's earlier release.  Out and out NS IMO 

link

No matter how much you argue, it doesnt make it so.... still say its R&B so there

A few more that pack the Northern Dancefloors:

Cookie Jackson - Do You Still Love Me

Patience Valentine - If You Don't Come

Jimmy Hughes - It Ain't What You Got

WOOF!

No matter how much you argue, it doesnt make it so.... still say its R&B so there

A few more that pack the Northern Dancefloors:

Cookie Jackson - Do You Still Love Me

Patience Valentine - If You Don't Come

WOOF!

link

ok ok will take your word for it

The acceptable side IMO, NS again. As you well know I used to play Cookie in the 80's and had the Patience Valentine in my collection at one point.

Thing Big Daddy was one of the first to play Cookie? Got it on some old tapes of his somewhere

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by chalky

Do people read the threads before posting or what on here....lol

I tried to give an overview...sorry, i'll get my coat.

Mark Bicknell.

link

No we just like to argue

ok ok willtake your word for it     

The acceptablew side IMO, NS again.  As you well know I used to play Cookie in the 80's and had the Patience Valentine in my collection at one point.

link

There you go... Chalky admits it... he loves R&B......

WOOF

There you go... Chalky admits it... he loves R&B......

WOOF

link

Is there a smiley sticking two fingers up

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by chalky

And i think 'Nick Nack Paddy Wack' is shit as well....

Give the dog a bone, indeed.

WOOF!

link

I love it

Gotta say i love the Leo Price Band, fantastic sound, also love Milton Grayson on Keen, but i'm easy to please and find virtually all the Soul related genres musically satisfying.

Kev, For what it's worth i think the answer is simple.... it's like there is now a totally seperate scene and venues which cater for the R'n'B groove, people know my thoughts on the subject as i did write an item on this for Manifesto a few years ago which did upset a few people. My points were honest and i feel i had some knowledge and background on the style as myself and the likes of Roger Banks did push certain tracks in the R'n'B style on the mainstream Northern scene, what i will say is that the records played by us at least had a connection to the roots of the scene, were perhaps a little bit more hard edged but did have SOUL content i.e Nat Hall, Dorothy Williams, Hayes Cotton, Big Daddy Rogers, Curly Moore etc. etc.

My basic point was as with all styles of music within the scene and to be inovators you have to maintain a standard and quality of music to move forward, some of the so called R'n'B simply is void of any real quality, records like Dean Barlow, Barbara Dane, Larry Trider etc. in my opinion are very sub standard and at best very average records, but if it floats peoples boats then who are we to dish the music they enjoy?

Dated,late 50's often not even records of Black origin seem to be passed off as R'n'B and again have nothing to do with the Northern scene, bench mark records in this style have to be the likes of Jimmy Robins, Bobby Bland,Bud Harper etc. etc.

Lastly if we take the best bits for all stlyes and eras then if some of the R'n'B 45's are of a quality then i see no reason to include them in the mix at the venues.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

link

As someone who enjoys RnB, I always find it interesting where people decide to draw their lines

Like many others, it would not concern me if I did not here Dean Barlow again, but I think it is harsh to put Barbara Dane in the same bracket. It has a strong gospel influence, with a similar theme to Wade In The Water and was performed with feeling...and soul, if you like.

As far as the Jimmy Robbins and Bud Harper records are concerned....should we judge them on their provenance or their sound?

Just a bit of early evening musing on my part, really

No not dead, not my cup of tea either

JM

Well you put on a brave face and played a bloody good set at NMD a couple of months ago then John, under the circumstances

Dave, In reply, on sound always without question, all threads,topics on here are based on personal opinion.........

Kevin Roberts asked the question and we are responding to it, like i said whatever floats your boat........

Mark Bicknell.

I'm sure Mark will echo theis but the 80's and Stafford in particular was were the breaking ground for many of todays so called "R&B" spins.

Bud Harper (not R&B IMO ), Buddy Ace - True Love, Patience Valentine, Cookie Jackson, Big Daddy Rogers, Curly Moore, Arthur Freeman, Benny C Oliver, Blue Jays, Danny White (Atlas) and many more I could list but can't be bothered

Even though I don't like them all, many of these I consider the acceptable side. The last few years however has seen the R&B sound get earlier and earlier and often verging on Rock and Roll, Leo Price, Bruce Cloud to name but two. It's this kind of record that does absoutely nothing for me whatsoever and feel should be left to the specialist R&B rooms and kept put of the NS rooms

As for Barbara Dane, should be played at a line dance

Danny White (Atlas) and many more I could list but can't be bothered   

link

Danny White is an old 60s Mod sound.... was issued on UK Sue and sold fairly well (For a Sue record anyway)

WOOF!

Do people read the threads before posting or what on here....lol

I tried to give an overview...sorry, i'll get my coat.

Mark Bicknell.

link

Coat ? you off to post a letter

Although not a great fan of the genre, I do not hear much of it from any DJ that works for us. Is it completely dead?

link

That's because the DJs you book don't play R & B.

Most of the tracks named in this thread have featured in my playlists at one time or another, and of the one's Joe listed first time, only the Dr Truelove hasn't been in my DJ box at all.

I do agree though, some of the shite that is played as R & B is just that ..shite. I always try and play tunes that are on the border of Soul music / R & B, as an example, anything by Bobby Bland falls into that category for me.

As for it being dead ? Not in the slightest, I normally try and play about 20 minutes in an hours spot, and aften the dancefloor is at it's busiest during that 20 minutes. As I've said before, I don't claim to be a great DJ, but I must be doing something right because I've averaged over 50 bookings a year for some time now, and already have 38 in the diary for 2005.

R&B Dead?? Hahahahahahahahaha!

I havn't laughed so much since Granny caught her left tit in the mangle..(as someone once said!)

R&B Dead?? Hahahahahahahahaha!

I havn't laughed so much since Granny caught her left tit in the mangle..(as someone once said!)

link

Rowly,

I started the thread and interject along the way. It certainly aint happening at Fleetwood, Stoke and a few others we promote. I merely wondered if it was 'off the boil' . Maybe you could enlighten us to where it is cooking and how many are actually dancing?

Rowly,

        I started the thread and interject along the way. It certainly aint happening at Fleetwood, Stoke and a few others we promote. I merely wondered if it was 'off the boil' . Maybe you could enlighten us to where it is cooking and how many are actually dancing?

link

At these venues people danced to R & B

January 10th - The 100 Club, London

January 17th - The Greatstone Hotel, Manchester

January 17th - Winsford Allnighter

January 30th - Lancaster Club, Rushden

January 31st - New Century Soul Club, Manchester

February 7th - Rugby Town Hall

February 21st - Talk Of The South, Luton

February 27th - The Green, Darlaston

February 28th - Ashby De La Zouch Allnighter

March 5th - Prestatyn Weekender

March 6th - Prestatyn Weekender

March 7th - Prestatyn Weekender

March 13th - Weston Super Mare

March 20th - Fishley Park Golf Club, Walsall

March 20th - Central England University Allnighter

March 26th - Rhyl Connoisseurs Weekender

March 27th - Rhyl Connoisseurs Weekender

April 3rd - Rugby Town Hall

April 10th - Desborough Ritz

April 10th - Bar Lorca, Brixton

April 23rd - Goodyears, Wolverhampton

April 24th - Bridgewater, Somerset

April 30th - Tonge Moor Conservative Club, Bolton

May 28th - Birchfield, Widnes

June 4th - The Farmer's Arms, Worcester

June 5th - Rugby Town Hall

June 11th - Cleethorpes Weekender

June 12th - Cleethorpes Weekender

June 13th - Cleethorpes Weekender

June 18th - Cheltenham Charity Soul Night

June 26th - New Century Hall, Manchester

July 3rd - Heavenly Blocked, Weston Super Mare

July 9th - Ponds Forge, Sheffield

July 17th - The Wulfrun Hall, Wolverhampton

August 13th - Station Hotel, Dudley

August 21st - Willington, East Midlands

August 28th - New Century Hall, Manchester

September 18th - Wulfrun Hall, Wolverhampton

September 24th - The Manor Hotel, Abergavenny

September 25th - The Royal Hotel, Walsall

October 2nd - Marrs Bar Allnighter, Worcester

October 16th - Yates, Pelsall

October 23rd - Samanthas, Sheffield

November 5th - The Soul 'Ole, Peterborough

November 6th - Rugby Town Hall

November 13th, The Attic, Willenhall

and plenty of Bitter was consumed wasn't it Dave?

Shane

and plenty of Bitter was consumed wasn't it Dave? 

Shane

link

At most of them :-0

At these venues people danced to R & B

January 10th - The 100 Club, London

January 17th - The Greatstone Hotel, Manchester

January 17th - Winsford Allnighter

January 30th - Lancaster Club, Rushden

January 31st - New Century Soul Club, Manchester

February 7th - Rugby Town Hall

February 21st - Talk Of The South, Luton

February 27th - The Green, Darlaston

February 28th - Ashby De La Zouch Allnighter

March 5th - Prestatyn Weekender

March 6th - Prestatyn Weekender

March 7th - Prestatyn Weekender

March 13th - Weston Super Mare

March 20th - Fishley Park Golf Club, Walsall

March 20th - Central England University Allnighter

March 26th - Rhyl Connoisseurs Weekender

March 27th - Rhyl Connoisseurs Weekender

April 3rd - Rugby Town Hall

April 10th - Desborough Ritz

April 10th - Bar Lorca, Brixton

April 23rd - Goodyears, Wolverhampton

April 24th - Bridgewater, Somerset

April 30th - Tonge Moor Conservative Club, Bolton

May 28th - Birchfield, Widnes

June 4th - The Farmer's Arms, Worcester

June 5th - Rugby Town Hall

June 11th - Cleethorpes Weekender

June 12th - Cleethorpes Weekender

June 13th - Cleethorpes Weekender

June 18th - Cheltenham Charity Soul Night

June 26th - New Century Hall, Manchester

July 3rd - Heavenly Blocked, Weston Super Mare

July 9th - Ponds Forge, Sheffield

July 17th - The Wulfrun Hall, Wolverhampton

August 13th - Station Hotel, Dudley

August 21st - Willington, East Midlands

August 28th - New Century Hall, Manchester

September 18th - Wulfrun Hall, Wolverhampton

September 24th - The Manor Hotel, Abergavenny

September 25th - The Royal Hotel, Walsall

October 2nd - Marrs Bar Allnighter, Worcester

October 16th - Yates, Pelsall

October 23rd - Samanthas, Sheffield

November 5th - The Soul 'Ole, Peterborough

November 6th - Rugby Town Hall

November 13th, The Attic, Willenhall

link

Spoke to the Pinches twins last Sun.

Told me that the last Wilton all nighter was 90% R&B.

Which was a disapointment to me because they used to get a selection of DJ's there playing totally "across the board" (I hate using that phrase, but couldn't think of owt better off the cuff). Which is why I used to go. I like R&B, bought my Buddy Ace off Pete Smith years ago.

Just got a Richard berry, Will travel for £12 off the bay. Never heard it played out, heard it on the net. Liked it. Looked out for it, bought it..

I know loads of you on here don't like it.... But as you say to each....

Spoke to the Pinches twins last Sun.

Told me that the last Wilton all nighter was 90% R&B.

Which was a disapointment to me because they used to get a selection of DJ's there playing totally "across the board" (I hate using that phrase, but couldn't think of owt better off the cuff). Which is why I used to go. I like R&B, bought my Buddy Ace off Pete Smith years ago.

Just got a Richard berry, Will travel for £12 off the bay. Never heard it played out, heard it on the net. Liked it. Looked out for it, bought it..

I know loads of you on here don't like it.... But as you say to each....

link

Just posted a piece about Buddy Lamp re. R&B vs NS. seems to have got lost...

Probably the next best thing that could have happened to it..

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by Dek. South Yorks

R&B Dead?? Hahahahahahahahaha!

I havn't laughed so much since Granny caught her left tit in the mangle..(as someone once said!)

link

Well as far as the Mod scene is concerened, R&B is the preferred music of choice at the mo... at places like the Shotgun Allnighter, The Mousetrap R&B Allnighter, Shake, (all London) Looking Back, Gems (Birmingham) Down With It (Leeds) the playlists are all at LEAST 50 - 60% RnB heavy.... and theres plenty of crossover from the Soul scene with guest dj's like Roger Banks, Ady Croasdell, Alan H, Jo Wallace Ady Lupton etc guesting at these places.... not mention the likes of Chris Dale (Scenesville) Irish Greg (Capitol) having residences at Shotgun & thr Mousetrap.

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by Rowly

I always used to think 1963-4 was pushing it a bit in terms of records sounding too primitive and dated. '65 onwards was the true sound of Northern and soul to me. So when I go out and here 45 mins of hillbilly, cousin shaggin' rock a billy wank, I have to wonder what the f*** has happened. Why are people moving backwards and not forwards. I suppose this offends some people and for that I do apologise, but I just don't see that this music belongs in soul rooms of any kind. Maybe Mod, maybe rock n' roll, may be country, may be line dancing, but NOT SOUL. I don't understand how people into soul have gone down this road, when so many people are playing quality music every weekend at venues up and down the country. I hope it's a blip in the same way 60's blue eyed pop records were a blip and that soon the scene will shake itself up and stop trying to re invent itself and realise that it should get out of reverse gear. Having said that (after a vodka too many) Don Gardner's Boogaloo makes me nod my head and smile uncontrolably everytime I hear it.

Jordi

I always used to think 1963-4 was pushing it a bit in terms of records sounding too primitive and dated. '65 onwards was the true sound of Northern and soul to me. So when I go out and here 45 mins of hillbilly, cousin shaggin' rock a billy wank, I have to wonder what the f*** has happened. Why are people moving backwards and not forwards. I suppose this offends some people and for that I do apologise, but I just don't see that this music belongs in soul rooms of any kind. Maybe Mod, maybe rock n' roll, may be country, may be line dancing, but NOT SOUL. I don't understand how people into soul have gone down this road, when so many people are playing quality music every weekend at venues up and down the country. I hope it's a blip in the same way 60's blue eyed pop records were a blip and that soon the scene will shake itself up and stop trying to re invent itself and realise that it should get out of reverse gear. Having said that (after a vodka too many) Don Gardner's Boogaloo makes me nod my head and smile uncontrolably everytime I hear it.

Jordi

link

I know it's each to their own Jordi but I'm with you all the way. My idea of R&b is a nice bit of R. Kelly or even just a sight them mighty fine long legs of Jamelia (and her tunes ain't bad either!). Time to get me coat i reckon....TAXI FOR WOOMBLE

Steve

Maybe, just maybe, it is because some DJs that are booked by you Kev, werent around during the Stafford era. When the Casino closed Stafford and the 100 club were definetly THE places to go to hear new sounds. A lot of the sounds at that time were experimental and meant all kinds of genre's were played. Latin, RnB,beat ballads etc.

With the 'return' to the scene of some of these guys, they have chosen not to listen or to just criticise the sounds for not being 'Northern Soul'. Yet to many people, and the majority of people I know, this was a golden era. Maybe because I and many of my mates are 10-15 years younger than you and your mates.

None of this is meant in any way as a criticism. I just thought I would give my ideas, as to why you dont get to hear as much RnB as others.

Personally I am at about the same place as Chalky. I dont like the hardcore RnB sounds, but some of the ones mentioned, Larry Davis, Bud Harper etc I own and love listening to. But to me they are part of my 'Northern' experience.

Ought to claryfy as well here.... by R&B I personally mean stuff like Big Daddy Rogers, Cookie Jackson, Helen Troy, Barbara Dane, Patience Valentine, Jimmy Ellie, Peppermint Harris, Little Milton, Mickie Champion, Don Gardner, Ike & Tina, Raelettes, Margie Hendrix, Derek Martin, Etta James, Ray Agee, Ruth Brown, Pre - '65 Motown, Al, Reed, AC Reed, ZZ Hill, Lowell Fulsom, BB King, John Lee Hooker, Bobby Bland, Buddy Ace, Freddy King, Little Johnny Taylor, James Brown, Slim Harpo, Jr. Parker, Danny White, etc etc etc etc.

As far as this mod is concerenerd you can take the likes of Dean Barlow, Barbara Redd, Johhny Wells, Milt Grayson et all..... and shove 'em right up there as far as they'll will go! If I never hear them again it will be too soon!

Spoke to the Pinches twins last Sun.

Told me that the last Wilton all nighter was 90% R&B.

are there two Wilton ballrooms ?????? cos the last one was crossover mid tempo heaven, ..wih some nice northern and none of that stupid rock and roll C&W crap

Edited November 17, 200420 yr by headsy

too right Headsy.

Hopefully more of the same on Friday.

I know the Pincer twins and I have not seen them at the Wilton for a long time.

Shane