This one is really puzzling me.  Charlotte Stokes - Is This The Price I Have To Pay - T.I.P. 100.

Is this a real record is it a Simon type thing?  Firstly, it looks like a boot, the run off gives away nothing except a poorly scratched in number.  The same track is on both sides.  The recording quality is fairly low fi.  The backing track is the same as The Flirtations - Change My Darkness Into Light.

Does anyone know anything about this one?  I think maybe someone got hold of the backing track and put new lyrics to it - but not in the 60's.

Pete: 

 

Yip....it's a "real" record.

I believe Kev Roberts got them pressed from an original master tape. (No acetate available)

off the top of my head,....300 in total made in the late '70s.

A bit "low if", but a great tune to my ears. 

I remember reading a thread about it, but I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

Edited February 25, 20178 yr by LambrettaGP200

Great info, thanks

3 hours ago, Pete S said:

This one is really puzzling me.  Charlotte Stokes - Is This The Price I Have To Pay - T.I.P. 100.

Is this a real record is it a Simon type thing?  Firstly, it looks like a boot, the run off gives away nothing except a poorly scratched in number.  The same track is on both sides.  The recording quality is fairly low fi.  The backing track is the same as The Flirtations - Change My Darkness Into Light.

Does anyone know anything about this one?  I think maybe someone got hold of the backing track and put new lyrics to it - but not in the 60's.

 

Always have been told if it has 4, 5.  run off lines  to believe that's is Belgium bootleg  .manship  & brown & Koppel have the same description in the early  book

  I never heard of it but Simon  did a huge number of stuff like that .there's a jay trynor  on DCP13302 it has the same format as the one in photo & that's a boot from Belguim   .

 

The record was manufactured by the late Herb Abramson who owned Festival. Herb was a friend of mine who playing through acetates found this 1967 recording(different play on Change My Darkness Into Light if my memory serves correct). He made 300 copies which sadly did not sell due to the quality.

 

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Even if I could also imagine being a "vault" find, I always thought it to be a "made for the northern" market kind of record. The singing is quite amateurish and the vocal composition more like humming along the music... where the Flirtations RULE !

Belgium pressing !? Why ? It doesn't look at all like a Belgium, Holland or even French pressing thing. Seems more to come from the same batch/pressing plant as the Lillie Bryant and such ugly bootlegs...

On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 21:35, Goldsoul said:

The record was manufactured by the late Herb Abramson who owned Festival. Herb was a friend of mine who playing through acetates found this 1967 recording(different play on Change My Darkness Into Light if my memory serves correct). He made 300 copies which sadly did not sell due to the quality.

 

Hi Kev seem to remember you having these at record haven along with the Blue jays " point of view"  jay  and bobby moore  "carefully check my heart " kay ,o

 

regards Steve

wasn't there also a ken Williams  title at the same time if memory serves me correctly ?

14 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

wasn't there also a ken Williams  title at the same time if memory serves me correctly ?

Yes. Herb Abramson worked plenty with Ken Williams the guide vocalist. And the same source delivered the Stronger Than Her Love inst. 

15 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

wasn't there also a ken Williams  title at the same time if memory serves me correctly ?

 

17 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

Hi Kev seem to remember you having these at record haven along with the Blue jays " point of view"  jay  and bobby moore  "carefully check my heart " kay ,o

 

regards Steve

Blooming heck what a memory.  I had a few copies of the Blue Jays.  Retailed them at £6 each 😀

On 26/02/2017 at 11:55, tlscapital said:

Even if I could also imagine being a "vault" find, I always thought it to be a "made for the northern" market kind of record. The singing is quite amateurish and the vocal composition more like humming along the music... where the Flirtations RULE !

Belgium pressing !? Why ? It doesn't look at all like a Belgium, Holland or even French pressing thing. Seems more to come from the same batch/pressing plant as the Lillie Bryant and such ugly bootlegs...

I'm sure you realise this is a different Flirtations to the main one? It wasn't made for the Northern scene. Stokes was a member of the Josie group and sang this guide vocal before they went with 'Darkness Into Light' 

It was simply a demo aand not good quality with equally poor sales as a Ltd release in the 70's. Hasn't stopped it growing in value Year on Year though. 

11 minutes ago, Goldsoul said:

I'm sure you realise this is a different Flirtations to the main one? It wasn't made for the Northern scene. Stokes was a member of the Josie group and sang this guide vocal before they went with 'Darkness Into Light' 

It was simply a demo aand not good quality with equally poor sales as a Ltd release in the 70's. Hasn't stopped it growing in value Year on Year though. 

I'd never heard of it, or even heard it until last week!

39 minutes ago, Goldsoul said:

I'm sure you realise this is a different Flirtations to the main one? It wasn't made for the Northern scene. Stokes was a member of the Josie group and sang this guide vocal before they went with 'Darkness Into Light' 

It was simply a demo aand not good quality with equally poor sales as a Ltd release in the 70's. Hasn't stopped it growing in value Year on Year though. 

There's only one female Flirtations group ie previously the Gypsies and Charlotte stokes wasn't a member. 

The strange thing about this 45 is the new york address not the same as the Festival label as you would expect but the Ed Sullivan theatre

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Goldsoul said:

I'm sure you realise this is a different Flirtations to the main one? It wasn't made for the Northern scene. Stokes was a member of the Josie group and sang this guide vocal before they went with 'Darkness Into Light' 

It was simply a demo aand not good quality with equally poor sales as a Ltd release in the 70's. Hasn't stopped it growing in value Year on Year though. 

OK and thanks for clarifying. I believe you but I'd guess it's more a demo cut then (before a chosen artist tries it for size). Not a cut planned for issue.

The copy I had was given to me 30 years ago. It was part of a "give away lot" from a mod collection to a young soul beginner when 'northern soul' was out on the Brussel mod front in the mid eighties...

1 hour ago, Goldsoul said:

 

Blooming heck what a memory.  I had a few copies of the Blue Jays.  Retailed them at £6 each 😀

had 3 copies off you at the time kev sold two  a few years back for £300 each

6 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

had 3 copies off you at the time kev sold two  a few years back for £300 each

 

7 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

had 3 copies off you at the time kev sold two  a few years back for £300 each

😩😀👍

1 hour ago, randy said:

There's only one female Flirtations group ie previously the Gypsies and Charlotte stokes wasn't a member. 

The strange thing about this 45 is the new york address not the same as the Festival label as you would expect but the Ed Sullivan theatre

 

 

 

How does that work? The Flirtations feat Charlotte Stokes cut Stronger Than Her Love. They are not the same outfit who recorded for Deram and formerly as The Gypsies. 

 

Edited February 27, 20178 yr by Goldsoul

2 hours ago, Goldsoul said:

How does that work? The Flirtations feat Charlotte Stokes cut Stronger Than Her Love. They are not the same outfit who recorded for Deram and formerly as The Gypsies. 

 

Where have you got featuring The Flirtations feat Charlotte Stokes from?

So JJ Jacklson and Sydney Barnes who wrote and produced most of The Gypsies records on Old Town who then changed their name to the Flirtations but JJ Jacklson and Sydney Barnes starting writing songs for another group who just happen to be be called the Flirtations that makes a lot sense doesn't it  

That's exactly what happened. The Flirtations on Festival produced by Barnes and Jackson are not the same group that the very same writer/producers worked with as in the Gypsies, later the Flirtations.  Totally different groups. 

If you get chance to speak with any of the Flirtations(as in from 1968) on Facebook, they will tell you Stronger Than Her Love on Festival is nothing to do with them. 

Edited February 27, 20178 yr by Goldsoul

what would be a current value for this 45???

23 hours ago, speedlimit said:

wasn't there also a ken Williams  title at the same time if memory serves me correctly ?

Ken Williams & The Babysitters - "get to know ya" - on Spectator, a take of Bobby Treetop.

16 hours ago, diamondjim said:

what would be a current value for this 45???

 more or less £50 apparently ! 

£40 according discogs..................

No comparison really in terms of quality:

Ed

 

Think I paid about £38 for it

thanks for the replies on valuation fella's