Ernest Ernie & The Sincerities - 7" release

[Fishdockroad 46]

1 hour ago, chalky said:

Does it really matter if it is the same or not, it is a new release, it should be about the music and not what some greedy part time dealer can make out of someone.  People would rather see their own greed protected than others getting a copy of a brand new recording.   I hope some get their fingers burnt, it will serve them right. It should never be about the collector and people exploiting others.  If it was limited to one copy each that would be fine, but no people buy multiple copies to expolit others  

I hope the second run is from the same master and they look identical.

Couldn't agree more that it's about the music but my question was one I'd wondered about for quite a while. Away from records, I collect a number of different things were knowledge really does matter so when friends are asking the very question I asked before diving in and paying for an overpriced copy from "some greedy part-time collector" and I don't know the answer I thought I'd try and clarify it for them. As it is the prices have already started to tumble upon the news of the future release,  something I've already shared amongst this group in the hope that those chasing it still can, make their own minds up as to whether or not to jump in or wait. Thanks for your first reply Chalky  (If it is from the same master it will still be a first press.  It will only be a reissue if a new master with a new matrix number etc is used. ) I didn't know that and so my knowledge of these things has increased.

[Dave Pinch 1,800]

6 hours ago, Scootboy said:

Different presses,have different Matrix / Runout,   

sometimes,they also have different labels,

a recent example

 

similar thing happened with benjamin right direction also..it got reissued..this release has only been out not 4 weeks... altho the repress is not gonna be out for a couple of months will give them a chance to think how they will go about it

[Scootboy 585]

[Shufflin 1,683]

it was fun today watching people trying to flog em off on discogs, one went for under £30, and one (listed a few days back at £100) was reduced to £40

people shouldn't be snobby over whether the first or second run of the 45 is the OVO as neither was the first time the track has been released on vinyl, just saying

BTW the picture on Juno looks the same as the first 45 press to me, unless it's a placeholder

Edited January 22 by shufflin

[Dave Pinch 1,800]

18 minutes ago, shufflin said:

it was fun today watching people trying to flog em off on discogs, one went for under £30, and one (listed a few days back at £100) was reduced to £40

 people shouldn't be snobby over whether the first or second run of the 45 is the OVO as neither was the first time the track has been released on vinyl, just saying

BTW the picture on Juno looks the same as the first 45 press to me, unless it's a placeholder

i think the point being missed here tho is that the guys who put this out said there will be no second run..its not been out 1 month yet and now a second run is planned.. dont think we need to go down the OVO/snobery route as nobody has said anything reference that as yet

 

[Shufflin 1,683]

2 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

dont think we need to go down the OVO/snobery route as nobody has said anything reference that as yet

Okay Dave no worries, I must have misunderstood the posts that were wondering if the 2nd run would be somehow different from the first run

[Dave Pinch 1,800]

4 minutes ago, shufflin said:

Okay Dave no worries, I must have misunderstood the posts that were wondering if the 2nd run would be somehow different from the first run

i think we all understand tho probably why they are doing it...only to look on discogs and see chancers trying to make money on a new release.

[Chalky 13,743]

3 hours ago, Fishdockroad said:

Couldn't agree more that it's about the music but my question was one I'd wondered about for quite a while. Away from records, I collect a number of different things were knowledge really does matter so when friends are asking the very question I asked before diving in and paying for an overpriced copy from "some greedy part-time collector" and I don't know the answer I thought I'd try and clarify it for them. As it is the prices have already started to tumble upon the news of the future release,  something I've already shared amongst this group in the hope that those chasing it still can, make their own minds up as to whether or not to jump in or wait. Thanks for your first reply Chalky  (If it is from the same master it will still be a first press.  It will only be a reissue if a new master with a new matrix number etc is used. ) I didn't know that and so my knowledge of these things has increased.

You have a master plate that goes through a process and from this mother plates are created. From this mother more father plates are made and these are the stampers. The original father or master goes on the shelf.  The stampers will press say a 1000 copies before they wear out.  The mother can produce half a dozen sets of stampers I think before that wears out. They then make another mother plate from the master.  

Unless a brand new master is made with different matrix, and the original master is continually used then doesn’t matter how many runs are done they are all original first press.  Not the exact process but it gives you an idea  

think about chart records, those that sell millions, they don’t press them all in one go, they are done on demand.  Initial pre orders will be satisfied with extra if pre orders are good and they will then press more as they sell.

[Chalky 13,743]

25 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

i think the point being missed here tho is that the guys who put this out said there will be no second run..its not been out 1 month yet and now a second run is planned.. dont think we need to go down the OVO/snobery route as nobody has said anything reference that as yet

 

I think they have listened to concerns and complaints. I son’t think Andy who pressed them thought they would sell like they did.

OVO now comes into it, you can see it with the comments about will it be the same or will it look different.   Ridiculous really.

[Blackpoolsoul 492]

1 hour ago, chalky said:

I think they have listened to concerns and complaints. I son’t think Andy who pressed them thought they would sell like they did.

OVO now comes into it, you can see it with the comments about will it be the same or will it look different.   Ridiculous really.

There is a danger here that the next press might just not sell as much, I would steer well clear of any advice personally

[local 172]

If the rerelease is going to be the same imprint, why are Street Soul selling the remainders of the original first press (their quote on discogs) at £50, when they are distributors of the record, this is not scalping ? I realise I’m not doing myself any favours here but I’m a big lad and I can take the flak.

[Shufflin 1,683]

14 minutes ago, local said:

If the rerelease is going to be the same imprint, why are Street Soul selling the remainders of the original first press (their quote on discogs) at £50, when they are distributors of the record, this is not scalping ? I realise I’m not doing myself any favours here but I’m a big lad and I can take the flak.

this whole thing has been a scalping wonderland, some (lots of) people are gullible (there's one up now for £45)

it's not like this is the same as the Grace Love 'Fire' 45, that was a genuine 100 copies only rarity that changed hands for silly money at one point and was bootlegged, this one is a 500 copy release of a track already issued by Expansion on LP, just mad

[local 172]

8 minutes ago, shufflin said:

this whole thing has been a scalping wonderland, some (lots of) people are gullible (there's one up now for £45)

it's not like this is the same as the Grace Love 'Fire' 45, that was a genuine 100 copies only rarity that changed hands for silly money at one point and was bootlegged, this one is a 500 copy release of a track already issued by Expansion on LP, just mad

I don’t have a problem with taking a profit, my gripe is that a lot of comments on this thread are very disparaging of the general notion of profiteering, but are reluctant to take issue (and name names) with the so called luminary’s of the scene.

[Chalky 13,743]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

There is a danger here that the next press might just not sell as much, I would steer well clear of any advice personally

I’m not giving advice but there was a hell of a lot of complaints on facebook where Andy was corresponding too.  Dealers have been inundated with requests for the disc but had sold out. 

 

14 minutes ago, shufflin said:

this whole thing has been a scalping wonderland, some (lots of) people are gullible (there's one up now for £45)

it's not like this is the same as the Grace Love 'Fire' 45, that was a genuine 100 copies only rarity that changed hands for silly money at one point and was bootlegged, this one is a 500 copy release of a track already issued by Expansion on LP, just mad

The flipside wasn’t issued by Expansion. It isn’t just this country that there is demand and there isn’t just the northern scene wanting this, why they would want it anyway I’m not sure when similar sort of recordings faren’t deemed good enough for a northern night. There is a demand and looks like the label are simp,y attempting to meet that demand. Andy said it was never meant to be an immediate rarity. 

[Blackpoolsoul 492]

I bought my first record £10 (single) with my dinner tokens from school, who was the mug (bootleg copy of Rufus Lumley I'm standing (I didn't know what a bootleg was then) inflation says

£10 in 1977 → £60.96 in 2018

[Shufflin 1,683]

2 minutes ago, chalky said:

The flipside wasn’t issued by Expansion

fair enough if that is the reason it's so in demand

[Chalky 13,743]

1 minute ago, shufflin said:

fair enough if that is the reason it's so in demand

Obviously not but peope want a 7 inch piece of vinyl.  Just like the download wasn’t good enough for some who wanted it on vinyl and bought the later issue on Lp. 

[Dave Pinch 1,800]

41 minutes ago, local said:

If the rerelease is going to be the same imprint, why are Street Soul selling the remainders of the original first press (their quote on discogs) at £50, when they are distributors of the record, this is not scalping ? I realise I’m not doing myself any favours here but I’m a big lad and I can take the flak.

yeh certainly food for thought john... i actually think that andy will do something different with it  so maybe keeping everyone happy.. most of these new releases seem to be aimed at collectors with the limited runs for what ever reason..this one seems to have blown up beyond their wildest dreams..i think it will get saturated tho with overplay before long

 

Just now, chalky said:

Obviously not but peope want a 7 inch piece of vinyl.  Just like the download wasn’t good enough for some who wanted it on vinyl and bought the later issue on Lp. 

maybe they wanted the 7 as they thought it was a limited press too..at the end of the day there is a collector in us all

[MikeHinNewJersey 76]

1 minute ago, dave pinch said:

yeh certainly food for thought john... i actually think that andy will do something different with it  so maybe keeping everyone happy.. most of these new releases seem to be aimed at collectors with the limited runs for what ever reason..this one seems to have blown up beyond their wildest dreams..i think it will get saturated tho with overplay before long

 

maybe they wanted the 7 as they thought it was a limited press too..at the end of the day there is a collector in us all

The previous 6 releases on "It's Soul Time" over the last 14 years are all still available and I'm guessing had similar size small runs. Why this one blew up, who knows, the crazy world of Northern Soul eh?  

[Chalky 13,743]

18 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

yeh certainly food for thought john... i actually think that andy will do something different with it  so maybe keeping everyone happy.. most of these new releases seem to be aimed at collectors with the limited runs for what ever reason..this one seems to have blown up beyond their wildest dreams..i think it will get saturated tho with overplay before long

 

maybe they wanted the 7 as they thought it was a limited press too..at the end of the day there is a collector in us all

I bought it because it is good, never for a second wondered how many copies were pressed, just assumed there would be a decent run done given the demand and popularity. 

[Dave Pinch 1,800]

1 minute ago, chalky said:

I bought it because it is good, never for a second wondered how many copies were pressed, just assumed there would be a decent run done given the demand and popularity. 

so did i..couldnt stop watching the video thruout  december..i normally dont buy these new releases as they get hammered and i get bored of them very quickly..i have bought a few.. big lee dowell..benjamin etc sold them now tho.. this one really special tho

 

[Dave Pinch 1,800]

37 minutes ago, MikeHinNewJersey said:

The previous 6 releases on "It's Soul Time" over the last 14 years are all still available and I'm guessing had similar size small runs. Why this one blew up, who knows, the crazy world of Northern Soul eh?  

nothing crazier

[Chalky 13,743]

23 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

so did i..couldnt stop watching the video thruout  december..i normally dont buy these new releases as they get hammered and i get bored of them very quickly..i have bought a few.. big lee dowell..benjamin etc sold them now tho.. this one really special tho

 

Benjamin I waited for the Lp. 

[Seano 405]

4 hours ago, chalky said:

You have a master plate that goes through a process and from this mother plates are created. From this mother more father plates are made and these are the stampers. The original father or master goes on the shelf.  The stampers will press say a 1000 copies before they wear out.  The mother can produce half a dozen sets of stampers I think before that wears out. They then make another mother plate from the master.  

Unless a brand new master is made with different matrix, and the original master is continually used then doesn’t matter how many runs are done they are all original first press.  Not the exact process but it gives you an idea  

think about chart records, those that sell millions, they don’t press them all in one go, they are done on demand.  Initial pre orders will be satisfied with extra if pre orders are good and they will then press more as they sell.

Really useful thanks Chalky. Puts me in mind of the art world with things like screen prints and lithographs that eventually deliver inferior issues of the master, and nowadays digital options like giclee which are high quality reproductions of the 'master', but which could have a re-run if demand was there that was identical to the first run of whatever the artist thought they could sell.

[local 172]

On ‎09‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 22:56, chris anderton said:

Andy Lothian from the record company posted this on FB:

Guys, there are still copies of Ernest Ernie around, albeit decreasing in numbers by the day. As to why we didn’t press up 1000? Simple really, most releases don’t warrant being pressed for 1000 - and that includes excellent releases that we’ve done well on previously including BAGS, R&R SOUL ORCHESTRA, TONY DRAKE and others. It was never about making it an exclusive record, it was about pressing up the right number to satisfy what we thought would be genuine demand. As correctly stated earlier, there are no plans or discussions regarding a second pressing. I got to go hunt out the next release!!!

He also goes on to say there were 500 copies pressed.

 

Chris

That statement, influenced the market and the selling price of copies available at that time.

Forget the moral rights and wrongs or whether this benefited him personally, people definitely paid over the odds for a record in the belief that it was limited to 500. The subsequent reversal of this statement now makes a mockery of limited releases.

If this type of misleading statement were issued to the stock market by the MD of a PLC he would be investigated by the DPP and face a long term jail sentence.  

Edited January 23 by local

[Chalky 13,743]

2 minutes ago, local said:

That statement, influenced the market and the selling price of copies available at that time.

Forget the moral rights and wrongs or whether this benefited him personally, people definitely paid over the odds for a record in the belief that it was limited to 500. The subsequent reversal of this statement now makes a mockery of limited releases.

If this type of misleading statement were issued to the stock market by the MD of a PLC he would be investigated by the DPP and face a long term jail sentence.  

It didn’t influence sellers at all.  Those with spares had already purchased them to sell on at inflated prices...copies already at the time on the market at £250 when you could still buy copies on line if you looked.  At that time there was no plans, it all changed just recently, well over a week, getting on two later. 

[local 172]

Didn't say it influenced sellers, but it did influence buyers to pay the inflated prices, believing that this was the only way they were going to get one.

As I said I'm not getting into the morals of any of this, but the statement definitely influenced the market and If it were a Limited edition Rolex watch for instance the company credibility would be in tatters.  

Edited January 23 by local

[Mark R 1,172]

4 hours ago, local said:

That statement, influenced the market and the selling price of copies available at that time.

Forget the moral rights and wrongs or whether this benefited him personally, people definitely paid over the odds for a record in the belief that it was limited to 500. The subsequent reversal of this statement now makes a mockery of limited releases.

If this type of misleading statement were issued to the stock market by the MD of a PLC he would be investigated by the DPP and face a long term jail sentence.  

But this isn't the stock market John, it's a piece of newly released music and it's this crazy OVO scene causes this problem, not the record label I'm afraid.

It's complete bullshit mate.....

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Mark R 1,172]

4 hours ago, local said:

Didn't say it influenced sellers, but it did influence buyers to pay the inflated prices, believing that this was the only way they were going to get one.

As I said I'm not getting into the morals of any of this, but the statement definitely influenced the market and If it were a Limited edition Rolex watch for instance the company credibility would be in tatters.  

But the limited release was based on what they thought would sell, not just to make it a limited release to make it coveted!

They were completely caught out by the interest despite knowing it was a great record, and so despite what they originally said they are now doing a repress and you can't blame 'em.

The worst you could do is criticise them for not realising just how much interest there would be in it!

Andy Lothian seems a genuine guy to me.

As I said, it's this crazy scene that causes this........it's been on MP3 and Soul Togetherness LP for months!

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Chalky 13,743]

3 hours ago, Mark R said:

But this isn't the stock market John, it's a piece of newly released music and it's this crazy OVO scene causes this problem, not the record label I'm afraid.

It's complete bullshit mate.....

 

Cheers,

Mark R

Neither did Andy Say there wouldn’t be a repress, just no plans, discussion etc

Edited January 23 by chalky

[local 172]

3 hours ago, chalky said:

Neither did Andy Say there wouldn’t be a repress, just no plans, discussion etc

Whether intended or not, the comment definitely  influenced the market and fuelled a situation where supply was  virtually nill and demand was sky high. If he had said “yes we underestimated demand and we are going to repress, these will be available in the next couple of months” then the heat would have been taken out of the situation.Why would anyone pay $100 + on discogs if more copies were imminent. I’m sure Andy is a genuine guy, however this has been handled badly and would have had more serious repercussions in other industries.

[local 172]

5 hours ago, Mark R said:

But this isn't the stock market John, it's a piece of newly released music and it's t

5 hours ago, Mark R said:

But this isn't the stock market John, it's a piece of newly released music and it's this crazy OVO scene causes this problem, not the record label I'm afraid.

It's complete bullshit mate.....

 

Cheers,

Mark R

 

5 hours ago, Mark R said:

 

It's complete bullshit mate.....

 

Cheers,

Mark R

My comments or the OVO thing ?

ATB

JF

 

 

 

[Shufflin 1,683]

this whole situation could have been avoided if the band had just released a 45 along with the original download on Bandcamp - as other artists have done (assuming they had the $ means to be fair), and then re-issue it later (as other artists have done)

THIS is a weird one though, never before seen a situation where people are getting heated over a record that has ALREADY been released on download AND vinyl previously

If you paid over the odds for the 45 more fool you, you've given someone free cash

[Mark R 1,172]

1 hour ago, local said:

 

The OVO thing.....

[Chris Anderton 479]

The re-press is not due until the end of March apparently. 

My guess is that we'll all be sick of hearing it 3 times a night by then and the record will be "dead" as far as demand from DJs goes.

Then again some of these guys are still playing "Thumb a ride"!

Chris

[Blackpoolsoul 492]

On 24/01/2019 at 09:33, chris anderton said:

The re-press is not due until the end of March apparently. 

My guess is that we'll all be sick of hearing it 3 times a night by then and the record will be "dead" as far as demand from DJs goes.

Then again some of these guys are still playing "Thumb a ride"!

Chris

There is also the matter of whether Marvin Gaye's family here it and get unhappy like they did with "blurred Lines" and another potential court case looms (although probably not enough "money" in it)

The exact same re-issue thing has happened with this tune (prices are a bit less (I got mine for £7), but at least the re-issue is different

https://www.discogs.com/Thee-Lakesiders-Si-Me-Faltaras-Tu/master/1490259

 

Edited January 27 by Blackpoolsoul

[Scootboy 585]

Small update,

got today the Dusty Groove copy,(my greeting to frosty Chicago),

after some spins,I'vs also started liking a lot the flip side When,

modern dancer with a NS touch and feeling

 

 

[Shufflin 1,683]

7 hours ago, Scootboy said:

I'vs also started liking a lot the flip side When

I got a copy for the b side, it's bugging me what it reminds me of though it sounds familiar

has anyone found out if the re-press will be any different? (not bothered it's just curiosity)

[Scootboy 585]

Lets hope that it will be the same,

otherwise (I know myself) I'll probably buy it again,

When reminds me the sound that many new soul bands from Daptone,Colemine,etc use,

it also has some flavour from mid to late 90s Brit pop  

[Mark R 1,172]

Catching up with this thread this morning and having waited months for the record below to appear on vinyl, I was inclined to come on here and post that I love this just as much as Ernie and that the only difference for me Is the musical style.....both move me an equal amount.....and that it's a shame that this won't sell out like Ernie!

So I go for the link at Juno.....to find it's sold out!  There is hope!! I will never stop shouting about records I believe 100% in, so whilst I apologise for using this thread to post it....I make no apology for posting it per se.  Completely irresistible 21st century black American soul music.....as I say, style aside I see no difference......

 

https://www.juno.co.uk/products/tkumah-sadeek-i-will-be-there/711944-01/

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Shufflin 1,683]

8 hours ago, Mark R said:

So I go for the link at Juno.....to find it's sold out! 

Juno do post some good stuff, I regulary snap stuff up there (as well as Northern I do like a bit of soulful house/nu disco!!)

the Linda Williams release on there is good modern soul/disco and it's the first time those tracks have been released onto a 45

[Douglaschip 208]

Just had an update from Rough Trade records that this is coming back in stock and have been able to place a pre-order from them. The picture is exactly the same and no suggestion that it is a new pressing / or different colour.

Adam

[Shufflin 1,683]

just for fun I played the original vinyl release LP vs the 45 this evening on my Technics 1210, trying to find a difference, absolutely no real difference, so both presumably from same master, also the 45 does not sound particulary louder

(I own both obviously)

[Scootboy 585]

Out of curiosity,

does your 45 make a couple of light clicks at the very end of the song (fade out finishing)?

Both copies that I have do this on Do Something side

[Mark R 1,172]

8 hours ago, Scootboy said:

Out of curiosity,

does your 45 make a couple of light clicks at the very end of the song (fade out finishing)?

Both copies that I have do this on Do Something side

Yes......

[cover-up 350]

9 hours ago, Scootboy said:

does your 45 make a couple of light clicks at the very end of the song (fade out finishing)?

Maybe the "re-issue" will be the copy to own...

[Dave Pinch 1,800]

had 5 copies..all tick on the outro

[Blackpoolsoul 492]

Here's one for sale

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ERNEST-ERNIE-SINCERITIES-Do-Something-When-NEW-MODERN-SOUL-45-NORTHERN-VINYL/163497832954?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D0cb9bbb2c0c646439e2260c7e399e347%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D233119930480%26itm%3D163497832954&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[Seano 405]

5 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Here's one for sale

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ERNEST-ERNIE-SINCERITIES-Do-Something-When-NEW-MODERN-SOUL-45-NORTHERN-VINYL/163497832954?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D0cb9bbb2c0c646439e2260c7e399e347%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D233119930480%26itm%3D163497832954&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Bit expensive given that they're doing a 2nd press!!

[Seano 405]

On 06/02/2019 at 23:05, Scootboy said:

Out of curiosity,

does your 45 make a couple of light clicks at the very end of the song (fade out finishing)?

Both copies that I have do this on Do Something side

Checked mine earlier and yes, final second or so of playout.