Or at least high up the charts.

Was reading today that the Top 40 is going to include downloaded songs & not just songs released as singles.

So i had a thought, would be worth spending a few quid to see a Northern tune in the charts again. Or we could have a laugh & get something like Wigans Ovation - Ski-ing in the snow up there.

What do you think ?

great question bogue im sure with all the soul/northern stuff that has been "sampled" recently and over the years on various records im sure something might go to the top

great question bogue im sure with all the soul/northern stuff that has been "sampled" recently and over the years on various records im sure something might go to the top

If everyone agreed on a tune, passed the information around the scene & all did a multi download in the same week who knows ?

Got to say though, it's fantastic news whatever. It should go some way towards stopping this hogging of the charts by boy/girl bands on the strength of a few single cd's sold, they reckon that if the Beatles back catologue is released for download that we could have the Fab Four in the top ten again.

Edited January 6, 200718 yr by Bogue

If everyone agreed on a tune, passed the information around the scene & all did a multi download in the same week who knows ?

Got to say though, it's fantastic news whatever. It should go some way towards stopping this hogging of the charts by boy/girl bands on the strength of a few single cd's sold, they reckon that if the Beatles back catologue is released for download that we could have the Fab Four in the top ten again.

WTF is it a fantastic idea, sure what things need currently is even more daytrippers with no clue as I am sure this would attract!!! Sorry mate, interesting point in theory but in practice do you really want to go back to 1975????

I think we should just stick to this as an debate on here, or am I just being grumpy again.

Cheers

Jock

WTF is it a fantastic idea, sure what things need currently is even more daytrippers with no clue as I am sure this would attract!!! Sorry mate, interesting point in theory but in practice do you really want to go back to 1975????

I think we should just stick to this as an debate on here, or am I just being grumpy again.

Cheers

Jock

i agree 100% jock

Speaking truly from a personal note WHY???????? Would we want a northern tune in the charts went thru this with Levine and the whole Wigan v Mecca thing.

Lets just let people find the music themselves it's purer that way.We didnt like it commercial then so whats the difference now... Kev

No, you three are right ! Keep it hidden, carry on watching & moaning about smaller attendances & finally sit back in our Nursing homes & watch it die completely knowing that it is ours & ours alone & nobody else can have a bit of it !!. Much better way How ever could i have thought something different !

Edited January 6, 200718 yr by Bogue

Yeah its different and i can understand where youre comin from with attendences falling at venues, but its lasted this long, and we all made the transition from closure of wigan right thru to the new stuff at stafford and even bloody beat ballads, just believe its wrong to purposesly commercialise it m8 sorry

No, you three are right ! Keep it hidden, carry on watching & moaning about smaller attendances & finally sit back in our Nursing homes & watch it die completely knowing that it is ours & ours alone & nobody else can have a bit of it !!. Much better way How ever could i have thought something different !

i think you need to look at why established soul punters can't be arsed going out to answer the problems there

Well if Norman Cook were a member, he might see things a bit differently.

However the Northern scence aka the 'rare soul scene' would be, well not quite the same I fancy.

No, you three are right ! Keep it hidden, carry on watching & moaning about smaller attendances & finally sit back in our Nursing homes & watch it die completely knowing that it is ours & ours alone & nobody else can have a bit of it !!. Much better way How ever could i have thought something different !

Not sure I get your logic, surely all it would do would add a few more to local soul nights, of people wanting to hear the record off TOTP strangling further the ablity of these local soul nights to play anything other than the pop hits!

I suppose it really depends on what you call the Northern Scene, from what I read on here it seems to be a whole lot of local soul nights vying for local people, and having to play safe to get them in, if thats the case then maybe this would help that scene, however if thats the future of the scene then my armchair is even more welcoming than before.

I think, in danger of sounding arrogant again, that I find it strange that all this talk of how to get new blood seems to focus on commercialising it. to me the scene was at its healthiest and most fun when you had a couple of hundred hard core people travelling all over to hear the new sounds, soul nights were just there for a casual entertainment, you didnt need 1000;s to make it work, and that attracted lots of new blood, coincidentally many who have drifted away, like myself, as its got bigger again. I dont think that scene exists very much now, although since I am one of those who cant be bothered maybe I am not best person to quote.

I think we just want different scenes, and the crux of the matter to me now is that is what seems to exist!

Dont really want to get into a debate re this again, been done before too many times, just thought I should explain in more detail my thinking.

And Davys comment about spending more time getting real soul people back attending is the one everyone seems to miss, I think its a very pertinent point.

On that note of to bed for me!

Cheers

Jock

downloads figures are already counted in uk charts etc, cant remember when started but sure its been a fair while now

downloads figures are already counted in uk charts etc, cant remember when started but sure its been a fair while now

You shure about that Mike ?

Thought it was starting from this week according to the rag

Here's the piece i read, from yesterday's Sun (so it could be a lie )

the download chart started 2004

and sure heard a fair while back that were combining both

may be wrong like, though the definite answer has to be out there on net somewhere

be interesting seeing what amount of downloads/sales gets you in charts nowadays

i'm sure gnarls barkley was the first tune to go to number one on downloads alone

The downloads were regulated against the number of physical units (CD's) available in the shops until last week or so, now if you download anything it's counted and will show up in the charts as a purchase, so anything available as a download on-line can be number one.

downloads figures are already counted in uk charts etc, cant remember when started but sure its been a fair while now

Hello,

As Mike said, digital downloads have been counted in UK charts for quite some time but only as a proportion of total sales - and they had to accompany "physical formats" (CDs, records, et) of the same track.

But as from tomorrow, January 7th, all sales of digital downloads (from reporting websites) will be chart-eligable even if there is no related physical format available.

In other words, many new releases are now available on MP3 only and have no physical version available.

At present there are around one million downloads per week in this country and they account for approx 80% of all sales, leaving physical formats with a very small portion of total sales. Obviously this is an average of overall reported sales of all music so some specialist genres (such as reggae, northern soul, blues etc) will have different ratios ...and sales of many independent records and CDs are not even reported in the first place.

Paul Mooney

www.millbrand.com

...would be worth spending a few quid to see a Northern tune in the charts again...

It's a great idea but you'd need a lot of people (maybe 50,000 or more on a good week) to download the very same track (from chart-reporting websites only) on the very same week.

Even then you'd probably get beaten by a naff pop record - and there are always plenty of those around.

Paul Mooney

It's a great idea but you'd need a lot of people (maybe 50,000 or more on a good week) to download the very same track (from chart-reporting websites only) on the very same week.

Even then you'd probably get beaten by a naff pop record - and there are always plenty of those around.

Paul Mooney

Is that the figure to get to No 1 Paul or just to get part way up ?

Bogue get alife the northern scene thrives on obscure tunes and people that love the scene that way.We have all been down" that road "of northern soul making the charts it dont work and gladly it didnt because folk who are not into the nitty gritty of northern soul think that we all love" footsee!" and basiclly take the piss.So let people think we are divs but we all know who are the real divs,lets keep it that way!.

Is that the figure to get to No 1 Paul or just to get part way up ?

Hello,

It all depends upon the competition. Selling 50,000 might not be enough to guarantee a chart topper some weeks.

When the charts were based on sales of physical products, some weeks had higher overall sales than others and major labels would take advantage of this by releasing hot new singles when they expected little competition. This was purely to get the highest possible chart position for that particular week - which is what the four major companies seem to be obsessed with.

Another tactic they used was giving free (or heavily discounted) stock to chart-return shops so they could sell new singles to the public at 99p (or less) in the late '80s and early '90s. This of course had a damaging long-term effect on the perceived value of music and is another classic example of major companies helping to destroy their own industry. It's really no surprise that many people today think all music should be free.

The charts have been "fixed" for a very long time and are based as much on the fastest sellers as the highest sellers. Records that reach number one often sell less copies in total (over a period of months) than records which don't chart very high.

Typically, a few hot records sell vast quantities and most others sell in much smaller quantities, so the sales difference between a record at number 1 and a record at number 20 can sometimes be staggering.

With the new chart rules I think we can expect sudden chart entries (or re-entries) of many popular oldies and we might find that many so-called "underground" acts are in fact more popular than we thought.

I also believe the mainstream media (as opposed to radio stations and music TV) will now have much more influence on the charts. For example, if a very popular artist is in the news next week, we can probably expect a sudden chart entry of an old favourite - providing enough people download the same particular track, rather than lots of people downloading lots of different tracks (which is probably what will have been happening with James Brown tracks recently).

Paul Mooney

Speaking truly from a personal note WHY???????? Would we want a northern tune in the charts went thru this with Levine and the whole Wigan v Mecca thing.

Lets just let people find the music themselves it's purer that way.We didnt like it commercial then so whats the difference now... Kev

Sorry Kev,Jocko & Davie, should have given you a proper answer, was just in a jovial mood.

Understand what you are saying about the Levine stuff & pop stuff (the Wigan's ovation quote was just a joke) but wouldn't you get some pleasure out of seeing a real quality rare tune in the national charts & show people what it really sounds like ?

You moan that 'daytrippers' only want to hear this other crap yet on the other hand you seem to want to stop them ever hearing the real stuff

& forgive me, but as i & others have stated before, why is it only any good if only a select few in the know have it ? it dosen't change the music in any way does it ? dosen't make it sound any better ?

Sorry but this exclusivly for us attitude has always bugged me, can understand the draw to an extent when we were impressionable teenagers but not at our time of life, & to me, if something is wonderful, the more people i can share it with the better ! Always been my way of thinking & always will be.

P.s.

Thanks Paul for that info, really interesting

Edited January 7, 200718 yr by Bogue

I've just got an iTunes card gift from a cousin, and I'll use it on this...

I don't think it'll work, though...

Cheers

A thought occured to me reading this thread that the 'music' is already being taken to the 'masses' through sampling on other types of records, adverts, backing in dramas etc. At some point I suspect that some music industry bod will do exactly what has been suggested and get a record from the NS scene high in the charts from downloads.

Therefore, why not let this happen from within the scene itself as it were, therefore controlling what that tune(s) was.

As for the arguement about keeping the scene exclussive, I argee with Bogue.

Why shouldn't this great music be made more available to those not already into it?

I never did the 'exclusive' 80s and 90's having been into the music like most in the 70's. I got back into the scene (the music never left me) because of the Internet bringing it back to me as I am sure has happened with many others.

Does what happened with us 'water down' the music or the scene? I think not.

I think that anything that takes the best of this music to as many people as possible is a good thing and the only way to ensure that a NS scene continues.

Just my humble opinion of course.

Spread The Faith.

Drew.

Edited January 7, 200718 yr by Drew3

do you really want to go back to 1975????

And let 15/16 year olds have the experience I did around at that time? Hell yeah!

It'll never happen though. At that time there weren't as many middle aged old gets determined to keep their precious scene for themselves

Godz

Northern soul at number 1, the thought of it..... absoloute no .

I don't understand any of the objections here as encouraging people to do this will in no way affect the scene. At best it will be seen as a novelty release by the general public who won't even know it to be a 'northern soul' record (which opens up a whole new can of worms in itself).

Its not as if you're asking Joe Public to spend hours trawling through boxes of obscure recods to find a genune original either... the downloaded format will have as much real relevance to the NS scene as the Kent albums that got me into the music in the early 80s?

No, you three are right ! Keep it hidden, carry on watching & moaning about smaller attendances & finally sit back in our Nursing homes & watch it die completely knowing that it is ours & ours alone & nobody else can have a bit of it !!. Much better way How ever could i have thought something different !

Deaf ears springs to mind. Everyone wants to keep it to themselves Cept you and me of course

I don't understand any of the objections here as encouraging people to do this will in no way affect the scene. At best it will be seen as a novelty release by the general public who won't even know it to be a 'northern soul' record (which opens up a whole new can of worms in itself).

Its not as if you're asking Joe Public to spend hours trawling through boxes of obscure recods to find a genune original either... the downloaded format will have as much real relevance to the NS scene as the Kent albums that got me into the music in the early 80s?

Novelty northern even worse...

We have competition!

f***in charts the worst ever form of musical 'stardom' :angry:

Whats underground about the charts, there is only one way to spread our music and thats through the london club scene in 'alturnative' clubs at least you can give it to them in its purest form, and keep it underground..............chart music give me strength!

We have competition!

NO competition.

NO competition.

Good call on Dawn Penn though I can think of a lot worse things to listen to.

Godz

f***in charts the worst ever form of musical 'stardom' :angry:

Whats underground about the charts, there is only one way to spread our music and thats through the london club scene in 'alturnative' clubs at least you can give it to them in its purest form, and keep it underground..............chart music give me strength!

Got to laugh at the irony of that one Baz, it's only called Northern Soul cause' you buggers didn't want it in the first place

Back to the the 'charts' it's starting to look as though the change could be a massive disaster. Apart from possible actions that we are talking about, that looks like is being contemplated all over the place, I was thinking today that in all honesty it just makes it easier for a record company to manipulate. Let's face it a multi download would be cheaper than a multi cd buy-up, in fact it wouldn't cost a record company much at all as more of the profit would come back to them.

Could be an interesting few weeks. Unless there are some rules that stop this ? I remember with the old charts that there was some block on regional sales, which in fact stopped some Northern records getting to No 1 or high in the charts ! 'Jimmy James - A man like me' springs to mind.

DOWNLOAD?..DOWN...LOAD?

I-TUNES?.......I...........TUNES?

WHAT'S WRONG WITH VINYL?

"I LOVE THE SMELL OF VINYL IN THE MORNING" (ROBERT DUVAL IN APOCALYPSE NOW)

Got to laugh at the irony of that one Baz, it's only called Northern Soul cause' you buggers didn't want it in the first place

Dont get it

Dont get it

Come on Baz wake up Remember Dave Godin termed it Northern Soul as the only people still interested in it were the Northern football fans coming down to London. Londoners had turned to funk e.t.c.

Come on Baz wake up Remember Dave Godin termed it Northern Soul as the only people still interested in it were the Northern football fans coming down to London. Londoners had turned to funk e.t.c.

that was some 30/40 years ago and it goes to prove my point London club scene is always searching for the new and fresh, and in a time where clubbers are getting bored of sime of the cheese thats being put to them, rare soul is perfect for unleashing

that was some 30/40 years ago and it goes to prove my point London club scene is always searching for the new and fresh, and in a time where clubbers are getting bored of sime of the cheese thats being put to them, rare soul is perfect for unleashing

Precisley Baz !! that's why we need to change the charts

Actually, iv'e just thought of another problem ! Even if we decided on the action we would take 12 months to agree on a tune ! that's if we ever could !!

And let 15/16 year olds have the experience I did around at that time? Hell yeah!

It'll never happen though. At that time there weren't as many middle aged old gets determined to keep their precious scene for themselves

Godz

NOW I HAVE TO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY... NEVER THOUGHT OF IT LIKE THAT.

BUT STILL CANT HAVE IT COMMERCIAL,ONCE YOU GO DOWN THAT ROAD THERES NO TURNING BACK

Got to laugh at the irony of that one Baz, it's only called Northern Soul cause' you buggers didn't want it in the first place

Back to the the 'charts' it's starting to look as though the change could be a massive disaster. Apart from possible actions that we are talking about, that looks like is being contemplated all over the place, I was thinking today that in all honesty it just makes it easier for a record company to manipulate. Let's face it a multi download would be cheaper than a multi cd buy-up, in fact it wouldn't cost a record company much at all as more of the profit would come back to them.

Could be an interesting few weeks. Unless there are some rules that stop this ? I remember with the old charts that there was some block on regional sales, which in fact stopped some Northern records getting to No 1 or high in the charts ! 'Jimmy James - A man like me' springs to mind.

Hi

I think, "What" - Judy Street was another

Sorry Kev,Jocko & Davie, should have given you a proper answer, was just in a jovial mood.

Understand what you are saying about the Levine stuff & pop stuff (the Wigan's ovation quote was just a joke) but wouldn't you get some pleasure out of seeing a real quality rare tune in the national charts & show people what it really sounds like ?

You moan that 'daytrippers' only want to hear this other crap yet on the other hand you seem to want to stop them ever hearing the real stuff

& forgive me, but as i & others have stated before, why is it only any good if only a select few in the know have it ? it dosen't change the music in any way does it ? dosen't make it sound any better ?

Sorry but this exclusivly for us attitude has always bugged me, can understand the draw to an extent when we were impressionable teenagers but not at our time of life, & to me, if something is wonderful, the more people i can share it with the better ! Always been my way of thinking & always will be.

P.s.

ALL FAIR POINTS,BOGUE. BUT DONT THINK WE ARE GONNA AGREE ON THIS ONE..

Like the two boys from league of gentlemen in front of the old chapel.. nice one Kev..

Totally agree ,

would be great to have a tune made popular to the masses, this exclusive club of ours, could be seen as preventing the artists reaching their true potential and popularity.

Maybe its time to give a little back, just tell me why the Northern soul crowd

have never embraced popularity?

The artists are owed a great deal, after all 'they sang' the records not us,

time to pay the dues i think, what better way of way of showing our love and appreciation than putting money in their bank !

just another perspective on the point first made

Hello,

It all depends upon the competition. Selling 50,000 might not be enough to guarantee a chart topper some weeks.

Yeah in the 60's and 70's. You could sell 10,000 now and get to number 1

i think this is a great idea.

haven't read whole thread so sorry if what i'm saying has been covered...

how would a suitable song be chosen? could we have a poll on here?

obviously we'd all have tp pick the same track, and it'd have to be the same week - incidentally, when does a chart 'week' run from? saturday to saturday or what? we'd need to find out. we'd also need to download it from a place that counted in the charts.

i don't think we should do a jokey pop number either - something good - bobby reed 'i'll find a way' was one of my faves from 2006 - so something like that would get my vote.

paul.

why not pick a sugar pie desanto track ? after all she could do with the cash, after she recently lost everything in a house fire

why not pick a sugar pie desanto track ? after all she could do with the cash, after she recently lost everything in a house fire

can you just imagine how she would feel, to have a little known track make it big, and make life a whole lot better for her ?

which track ?

great idea re sugar pie desanto.

anyone know what tracks of hers are available for legal download - or how to find out?

Bogue get alife the northern scene thrives on obscure tunes and people that love the scene that way.We have all been down" that road "of northern soul making the charts it dont work and gladly it didnt because folk who are not into the nitty gritty of northern soul think that we all love" footsee!" and basiclly take the piss.So let people think we are divs but we all know who are the real divs,lets keep it that way!.

Well I take exception to that remark! The record that got me into this scene was FOOTSEE that was 30+ yrs ago and i am still going to nighters ie I was at the Wilton on Fri and thoroughly enjoyed it. I still love FOOTSEE and oldies of the same ilk and would still dance to them!!! does that make me a "Div" i fecking think not!