Any Motown experts know if this is available to hear as an instrumental?

Cheers!

J

There is no version that I know of.

Not that I'm aware of

Thanks all - what a shame - feel like this would be a cracking instrumental!

 

18 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Not that I'm aware of

is it not the backing track to 'Counting On You', which exists?

Same track..but not sure it exists without vocals as a released item

In his interview with Frank Wilson a long time back,  Richard Searling asked about this track, and Frank Wilson thought it sounded to him like Partrice Holloway, not Brenda, wonder has this ever been proved?

 

Edited July 14, 20222 yr by Mal C

37 minutes ago, Mal C said:

In his interview with Frank Wilson a long time back,  Richard Searling asked about this track, and Frank Wilson thought it sounded to him like Partrice Holloway, not Brenda, wonder has this ever been proved?

 

Mal C

We are talking about Barbara McNair.

Are you getting mixed up with another recording By Brenda Holloway

52 minutes ago, Owd Codger said:

Mal C

We are talking about Barbara McNair.

Are you getting mixed up with another recording By Brenda Holloway

your right, same interview, they discuss this, but its the 'Keep on Rolling' track that Frank say's he hears Brenda's voice on the record... I think it was stated as by Patrice...

28 minutes ago, Mal C said:

your right, same interview, they discuss this, but its the 'Keep on Rolling' track that Frank say's he hears Brenda's voice on the record... I think it was stated as by Patrice...

'Keep On Rolling' is Brenda .. no question

Cheers Andy, and sorry guys, my memory is crap, but I recognised 'Baby a Go Go' immediatly from that interview.  Frank said that sound's like something Smokey would have done... and then they move onto 'Keep on Rolling'...

Edited July 14, 20222 yr by Mal C

here are the credit details courtesy of DFTMC

 

 

Baby A Go-Go (Richard Jacques-Ronald Miller) published Stein & Van Stock

alt title: Baby Don't Leave Me

Barbara McNair; recorded Hitsville, completed 26-May-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier

03-Jun-02; CD (M): Motown 544 619 2 A Cellarful Of Motown! [UK]

 

details of alternate lyrics...again from DFTMC

 

Countin' On You, Babe (Richard Jacques-Ronald Miller)

Barbara McNair; recorded L.A. (?), completed by 08-Mar-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier

26-Jan-04; CD (S): Motown 017 554 2 Barbara McNair - The Ultimate Motown Collection [UK]

 

I asked a major Motown CD compiler if there is a backing track for ALL vocal in the Motown vaults.

He replied;

 

Absolutely if the 2-3-4-8 or 16 track tape is in the vaults which I would say covers 99.9 per cent of Motown recordings then there is a backing track

is a backing track really an instrumental ( version)? I would think perhaps not, although might be a good start. to do the 'work' justice i guess it would need rearranging.

Edited July 14, 20222 yr by Kenb

4 minutes ago, Kenb said:

is a backing track really an instrumental ( version)? I would think perhaps not, although might be a good start. to do the 'work' justice i guess it would need rearranging.

Yes If there was a plan to do so, probably overdubs/strings etc would be added.

Earl van Dyke's "That Motown Sound" lp was the original backing track with EVD adding organ overdubs on top. Likewise, his " I can't help myself"

I assume the original poster was hoping to hear the original track as opposed to a fresh arrangement. I very doubt that a fresh instrumental exists.

 

2 hours ago, Owd Codger said:

I asked a major Motown CD compiler if there is a backing track for ALL vocal in the Motown vaults.

He replied;

 

Absolutely if the 2-3-4-8 or 16 track tape is in the vaults which I would say covers 99.9 per cent of Motown recordings then there is a backing track

Who is the major compiler just to add some context to your answer.

Isn’t 1964 when the step from recording as one in the studio began to come to an end. 
 

like Ken I wouldn’t class the backing track as a proper instrumental, just the same as the isolated vocal isn’t acapella   

Paul Nixon. He was given extensive access to Motown's vaults and tape library.

You'll see his name on many UK CDs.

I think perhaps  around 1963 they started using backing tracks and adding vocals ....the improvement in recording equipment allowed them to do this. Their main techie....Mike Mclean ...gave Motown a real improvement, moving over the years to 2, 4, 8,   track etc.

Re what makes an instrumental.

" Festival Time" is a backing track with added sweetening....overdubs and strings of course. So a band track is just that, but as with the Mirwood things, do they become instrumentals with added overdubs and strings? Does a track have to be completely distanced to any vocal...who knows.

 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Owd Codger said:

Paul Nixon. He was given extensive access to Motown's vaults and tape library.

You'll see his name on many UK CDs.

I think perhaps  around 1963 they started using backing tracks and adding vocals ....the improvement in recording equipment allowed them to do this. Their main techie....Mike Mclean ...gave Motown a real improvement, moving over the years to 2, 4, 8,   track etc.

Re what makes an instrumental.

" Festival Time" is a backing track with added sweetening....overdubs and strings of course. So a band track is just that, but as with the Mirwood things, do they become instrumentals with added overdubs and strings? Does a track have to be completely distanced to any vocal...who knows.

 

 

 

 

Cheers.  They are instrumentals of course but if they were a true instrumental I think we'd have a lot more going on, extra fills from the drummer etc rather than the laying down of a tightly scripted backing track.

Think I read by 1964 the musicians and the artists were working seperately so yes probably 1963 was the beginning of the end for the full studio.

Edited July 14, 20222 yr by Chalky

I've posted this before...Listen with both earbuds/headphone and then Take Right Earbud/headphone out. You go from Vocal to non vocal. The nearest thing to 'an instrumental/backing track(so to speak) on the same side as the vocal'

 

Edited July 14, 20222 yr by Kenb

Regarding the above, it's usually a good idea to look at the date of a release ....say mid 1965....and think it terms of much of the recording going back several months, even  say 1964, as the process of recording a 45, with band track, vocals, strings etc spread over several months.

Often the singers were on tour and producers worked on the tracks for months and had to do vocals when they returned to Detroit..briefly.

" I'll keep holding on ".....Hunter / Stevenson actually rushed to New York to get the vocals done ....they couldn't wait for such a normal process.

12 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Cheers.  They are instrumentals of course but if they were a true instrumental I think we'd have a lot more going on, extra fills from the drummer etc rather than the laying down of a tightly scripted backing track.

Think I read by 1964 the musicians and the artists were working seperately so yes probably 1963 was the beginning of the end for the full studio.

Things like Hitch Hike, Pride and joy are on  Martha and Vandellas lp Dance Party....Marvin had these out in 63 same band tracks, so they must have been doing it in 63.

I might have a dig and see if I can spot first use of a previous band track.

Edited July 14, 20222 yr by Owd Codger

I don't know when seperate tracks came into use, but I wonder whether two or more track recordings would be needed to seeing over a pre-recorded piece of music.

If the band recorded it on a one single track tape, then couldn''t the tape be played back, with singers singing over it, and that total output being recorded as one track, again on a one-track tape.

To do this, the studio would need facility to play back a pre-recorded tape as an input, (ie. a secondary tape player). The normal studio recorder would only need to be one track.

Just wondering, never thought about it much. Obviously it is much easier with multitrack but as far as I can see, not impossible without it.

I think early days they had the band on one track...singer on the other. But they may not have retained these after the mixing and cutting.

At some stage, the various tracks were retained, and increased technology meant that the various elements of the band could be separated onto different channels...as were vocals, lead backup etc 

2 hours ago, Owd Codger said:

I think early days they had the band on one track...singer on the other. But they may not have retained these after the mixing and cutting.

At some stage, the various tracks were retained, and increased technology meant that the various elements of the band could be separated onto different channels...as were vocals, lead backup etc 

i think that's what happened here....

17 hours ago, Kenb said:

I've posted this before...Listen with both earbuds/headphone and then Take Right Earbud/headphone out. You go from Vocal to non vocal. The nearest thing to 'an instrumental/backing track(so to speak) on the same side as the vocal'

 

 

6 hours ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

I don't know when seperate tracks came into use, but I wonder whether two or more track recordings would be needed to seeing over a pre-recorded piece of music.

If the band recorded it on a one single track tape, then couldn''t the tape be played back, with singers singing over it, and that total output being recorded as one track, again on a one-track tape.

To do this, the studio would need facility to play back a pre-recorded tape as an input, (ie. a secondary tape player). The normal studio recorder would only need to be one track.

Just wondering, never thought about it much. Obviously it is much easier with multitrack but as far as I can see, not impossible without it.

This may answer some question

 

On 14/07/2022 at 16:57, Owd Codger said:

Yes If there was a plan to do so, probably overdubs/strings etc would be added.

Earl van Dyke's "That Motown Sound" lp was the original backing track with EVD adding organ overdubs on top. Likewise, his " I can't help myself"

I assume the original poster was hoping to hear the original track as opposed to a fresh arrangement. I very doubt that a fresh instrumental exists.

 

That’s right - i think the strings with that incredible intro would be great in its own right as an instro, although agree it would probably need rearranging once heard.

although, for obvious reasons, they're the 'hits', you can often get instruments from karaoke CD's.

On 15/07/2022 at 23:18, Simon T said:

although, for obvious reasons, they're the 'hits', you can often get instruments from karaoke CD's.

Yes I got “ This Old Heart Of Mine “ and “ Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart “ from Karaoke CDs

On 15/07/2022 at 16:38, Simon T said:

This may answer some question

 

Facinating listening to those guys talking about the 3 track upgraded to 8 track in 64 and all the issues they head with the recording heads and echo chambers. Cheers for that.