Just had a conversation with an old Blackpool Mecca guy who is convinced that there is a version of this on A & M records. I've never heard of this, only ever heard of ( and owned the issue and demo)  of the Omen copy. I'm thinking he's wrong.

Please confirm.

TIA 

Unless one was under heavy influences and/or vaguely heard 'A and M'  instead of 'Omen' in a loud environnement we are yet to see one... That or an ultra rare Canadian release that is yet to be revealed...

The New Yorkers 'don't wanna be your fool' on Radio City (stuck-on half label on OG Tac-Full label) or Vala Reegan & Valarons 'fireman' on Bob Crewe Productions (single sided pre-release) which both don't qualify in my books as alternative label releases. As these are aimed for specific use outside the commercial realms.

So could this Brice Coefield on Omen have seen such an A&M acetate release or the idea to give it an A&M label at one time like some others did with few 'stuck-on' labels (Big Franck on Philips and Blue Rock) ?

I've never seen it on A&M, even in a mock-up.  Maybe it was a foreign issue of A&M.  I suspect any cuts that were issued on Omen in USA that would be thought worth a try in another country would be released on A&M.  But, I can't imagine that record being marketed in foreign countries, with so much excellent US Soul music competition back then.   Who would have risked money on marketing, pressing, and other costs on that slim chance that either side could stand up against Motown, Atlantic or Stax hits that were out at that time?  I certainly wouldn't have done.

Many examples going against that 'good sense' theory if ever Robb. Outside the USA record's executives worked else and differently than in the USA. But indeed the two sole foreign release that I know of from that Omen outlet are the 1965 release of the Wooden Nickels 'should I give my love tonight' on Canadian Reo, Australian Festival and Belgium London and the Out Crowd 'get yourself together' on Canadian Quality and Belgium London again. Because indeed A&M records then outside the USA didn't exist until the later by the late sixties. Hence why I doubt a later foreign release of that Brice Coefield 45. Don't make much sense.

10 hours ago, Julianb said:

Just had a conversation with an old Blackpool Mecca guy who is convinced that there is a version of this on A & M records. I've never heard of this, only ever heard of ( and owned the issue and demo)  of the Omen copy. I'm thinking he's wrong.

Please confirm.

TIA 

Omen was part of A&M records. And allegedly Brice Coefield came with an A&M company sleeve originally. So not unlikely one's brain can play some tricks and gets you thinking it came out on A&M.

Thanks to you all for your input. I could only mark Benji as the solution but you all deserve the same accolade.

I can now advise my pal accordingly 😇

Cheers Julian 

I have it listed as on A&M 774, but I've never had it confirmed or know anyone who's seen one. Maybe  an Urban myth?

Does this help

OMEN RECORDS

 

The Omen Records story began in the late 1950s at Madison Records with a doo-wop group called The Untouchables and their producers. Two members of The Untouchables were Brice Coefield and Chester Pipkin. Herb Alpert and Lou Adler were the group's producers. Alpert also played trumpet on some of those sessions and these singles. By 1961, all of them had met Jerry Moss who was at Keen Records.

Around 1964, Adler brought Pipkin and Coefield to A&M. Having worked together in the past, a new arrangement was formed, Omen Records. At some point, the label was deactivated and in 1965, Leland Rogers was hired to reactivate the label. In November 1965, the Sims Twins were signed. Having recorded for Sam Cooke's label, the Sims were a group that Herb Alpert knew.

From 1964 until 1966, the label produced 18 singles in the rhythm and blues, soul and doo-wop genres. It appeared that A&M had hopes for the label's success as its number of releases doubled each year. Chester Pipkin was the primary producer for the label. He also wrote and arranged or co-arranged some of the songs. He even adapted Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto into "Should I Give My Love Tonight" which was an "A" side by The Wooden Nickels on Omen.

In 1966, Omen began a production deal with James Brown which brought artist James Crawford of the James Brown Revue to the label.

Four of the label's 13 artists created two singles and the remainder had one-shot deals. Brice Coefield had a single that was also released on A&M. It was "Ain't That Right" (Omen 10 and A&M 774). Each single is collectible because the "B" side was different on each label. The single that is most collectible from Omen is "The Sweetheart Tree" by Joe Phillips, a Henry Mancini and Johnny Mercer tune from the motion picture "The Great Race."

Pipkin and Coefield would reunite again in the group Africa which recorded two singles and an album for Lou Adler's Ode Records during the time that label was distributed by A&M.

6 minutes ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

Does this help

OMEN RECORDS

 

The Omen Records story began in the late 1950s at Madison Records with a doo-wop group called The Untouchables and their producers. Two members of The Untouchables were Brice Coefield and Chester Pipkin. Herb Alpert and Lou Adler were the group's producers. Alpert also played trumpet on some of those sessions and these singles. By 1961, all of them had met Jerry Moss who was at Keen Records.

Around 1964, Adler brought Pipkin and Coefield to A&M. Having worked together in the past, a new arrangement was formed, Omen Records. At some point, the label was deactivated and in 1965, Leland Rogers was hired to reactivate the label. In November 1965, the Sims Twins were signed. Having recorded for Sam Cooke's label, the Sims were a group that Herb Alpert knew.

From 1964 until 1966, the label produced 18 singles in the rhythm and blues, soul and doo-wop genres. It appeared that A&M had hopes for the label's success as its number of releases doubled each year. Chester Pipkin was the primary producer for the label. He also wrote and arranged or co-arranged some of the songs. He even adapted Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto into "Should I Give My Love Tonight" which was an "A" side by The Wooden Nickels on Omen.

In 1966, Omen began a production deal with James Brown which brought artist James Crawford of the James Brown Revue to the label.

Four of the label's 13 artists created two singles and the remainder had one-shot deals. Brice Coefield had a single that was also released on A&M. It was "Ain't That Right" (Omen 10 and A&M 774). Each single is collectible because the "B" side was different on each label. The single that is most collectible from Omen is "The Sweetheart Tree" by Joe Phillips, a Henry Mancini and Johnny Mercer tune from the motion picture "The Great Race."

Pipkin and Coefield would reunite again in the group Africa which recorded two singles and an album for Lou Adler's Ode Records during the time that label was distributed by A&M.

Certainly helps but has anyone ever seen one or have a photo?

A&M 774 is a catalog number missing gap (in the A&M discographies) to be allocated between July and August 1965. While Brice Coefield 45 on Omen dates from January 1966. Would his Omen release have been kept in the can 4 or 5 months after its initial allocated release on A&M that was cancelled ? It's a possibility.

As the Omen 45 'B' side 'just one more time' is a Herb Alpert production in the odd Brice Coefield mould that could have been intended to be the original 'A' side for the more 'POP' orientated A&M label. Where the Omen 45 'A' side 'ain't that right' is a Chester Pumpkin 'R'nB'' product clearly destined for the Omen label. 

The rumour of an A&M release has been around for decades.  Never seen one and don’t know of anyone else either.  I’d like to see the source for the inclusion in an A&M 774 listing, was it wishful thinking or did the listing come from the record company? Maybe it was slated for release but never was like many on other labels?

I think it's 'Chester Pipkin' Tim, but he does produce a PUMPIN track here for sure 🙂

I think I read somewhere that Coefield and Pipkin sang with Bobby Sheen in the late 5ts... think thats right

yep, they were in The Alley Cats together... as for a release on A&M,Id have said straight no before we saw those 'Summit' releases last week!

13 minutes ago, Mal C said:

yep, they were in The Alley Cats together...

Damn those automatic spelling correctors... Apple, Peaches...Typing too fast and it fooks what you are writing while you write  because it thinks it's smarter than you. Asking to carefully check what it corrected that didn't need correction in the first place.They begin by twisting your spelling then your thoughts.

The Chavelles did a HIT record in 1956. The group consisted of Billy Storm, Brice, Chester and a Sheridan Spencer (?) and then later they met again in other group like the Alley Cats amongst few others. FWIW Brice and Herb Alpert also met in 1960 or before for Brice first solo effort 'Cha Cha twist' on Madison records...

 

Edited March 11, 20241 yr by Tlscapital

49 minutes ago, Mal C said:

yep, they were in The Alley Cats together... as for a release on A&M,Id have said straight no before we saw those 'Summit' releases last week!

have to say, i'm not convinced about those summit things, they look like they were pressed last week

13 minutes ago, Trev Thomas said:

have to say, i'm not convinced about those summit things, they look like they were pressed last week

The lack of an Alco stamp and delta number is a puzzle as well, they used that system at the time

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

Brice and Herb Alpert also met in 1960 or before for Brice first solo effort 'Cha Cha twist' on Madison records...

Off topic, but above record written by Hank Ballard originator of the twist as done by Chubby Checker 🤗