I should know this, and somewhere in my brain I do, but it's buried under a lot of rubbish.

Was The Belles Words Can't Explain /Don't Pretend booted on Mirwood, and if so how do you tell right from wrong?

Thanks all.

I think the white demo is safe way to own it,however I thought the blue one had a convincing boot?

Not on Mirwood if the memory serves me right, Soul Fox boot with instrumental on the flip.

didn't Pete Smith used to talk / play an Inst version of this? so not the Soul Fox boot, he said the version had been played at wigan, and I think had never appeared on vinyl as a legit or boot copy...

Here's a proper one on Mirwood Demo, Mirwood Blue issue boot, I'd check the MR delta matrix number, its from 1966 so sould tally with the numbering for that year...

deadwax details on the paper label stuck on styrene original

Side A - 66 - 1080 - A (scratched in) (MR) stamped in a circular squiggle (scratched in) Sm (scratched in) Δ60224 (scratched in)
Side B - 66 - 1078 - B (scratched in) (MR) stamped in a circular squiggle (scratched in) Sm (scratched in) Δ60225 (scratched in)
 

Ok, here it is, Belles - Don't Pretend Backing track played by Russ Winstanley in 74 at Wigan.

There are two versions, one on the Soul Fox Label done by Soussan, and another one with overdubbed strings and lead violin played by Winstanley on an acetate, but dropped when Sousan did his Soul Fox Bootleg. I'd guess both were from Soussan, he just played about with one sent it to Winstanley as an acetate, and booted / pressed the other version...

Here is a link to a thread where it was discussed >>HERE<<

2 hours ago, Mal C said:

Ok, here it is, Belles - Don't Pretend Backing track played by Russ Winstanley in 74 at Wigan.

There are two versions, one on the Soul Fox Label done by Soussan, and another one with overdubbed strings and lead violin played by Winstanley on an acetate, but dropped when Sousan did his Soul Fox Bootleg. I'd guess both were from Soussan, he just played about with one sent it to Winstanley as an acetate, and booted / pressed the other version...

Here is a link to a thread where it was discussed >>HERE<<

Wow, didn't know Russ played the violin!!!😀

The instrumental version with all the strings etc... " Pretention" ( Released  back to back with the vocal on Soul Fox ) was not the Wigan version, this was a lot sparser and was one of the very best instrumenals when the Casino was at its Height . Was introduced as "The Belles Band".     I have an old acetate of this , unfortunately the sound quality is quite degraded at the beginning ,     you never hear much  of it now , but this was as big as they come in 74/75.  

Edited March 14, 20241 yr by Carty
added more info

10 hours ago, Chalky said:

Not on Mirwood if the memory serves me right, Soul Fox boot with instrumental on the flip.

I know we all assumed at the time of release, that the Soulfox releases where boots , but I'm sure someone on here said they where Legitimate , we all know Simon Soussan was behind them , so the jury may still be contemplating on that , for legal reasons ?

9 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

I know we all assumed at the time of release, that the Soulfox releases where boots , but I'm sure someone on here said they where Legitimate , we all know Simon Soussan was behind them , so the jury may still be contemplating on that , for legal reasons ?

He got audio from Randy Wood, legitimately or otherwise doubt anyone really knows. The instrumental had never seen daylight prior to the Soul Fox release and the Wigan cut.  I doubt any of those who were due royalties got their dues.

Edited March 15, 20241 yr by Chalky

I know I'm going off topic slightly but did it get a UK release on contempo ? Or is it something else I'm getting mixed up with??

32 minutes ago, Greedy Mick said:

I know I'm going off topic slightly but did it get a UK release on contempo ? Or is it something else I'm getting mixed up with??

Released on President in 1970 here first then on Contempo in 75

20 hours ago, Carty said:

The instrumental version with all the strings etc... " Pretention" ( Released  back to back with the vocal on Soul Fox ) was not the Wigan version, this was a lot sparser and was one of the very best instrumenals when the Casino was at its Height . Was introduced as "The Belles Band".     I have an old acetate of this , unfortunately the sound quality is quite degraded at the beginning ,     you never hear much  of it now , but this was as big as they come in 74/75.  

So strings and violin mix was the soul fox boot, sparse version (Belles Band) the acetate spun by Winstanley.  

Are there a few acetates about of this mix, one initially we know off sent to RW, but Pete Smith may have had one, and yours, all cut from the first one, I guess there maybe others...   

 

What about the soul fox release of the Belles Unissued 1966 stormer Let Me Do it..Only available on vinyl on this Soul Fox release...Actually uncovered later as The Mirettes..One of the the best tracks ever...Ive often wanted to play it out but the Soul police have leant on me LOL

Edited March 15, 20241 yr by Patto

The Belles band:

 

Soussan, prior to the Soul Fox boot, which included overdubbed strings, obtained...and ive been told before, legitimately from Randy Wood, Mirwood backing tracks which he paid for....and Simon actually told me that himself a few years ago, sent over a handful of acetates of " dont pretend " of which Winstanley was one recipient.

I know for a fact ( Blue )  Max Millward, Cats dj, acquired one of these too.....when he sold up ( the first time ) a mate of mine ( long since departed ) bought the acetate amongst a host of other tunes from Max's collection.

Pete Smith had it on a tape recording as far as i can remember, i dont ever remember him saying he had one of these acetates.

I always thought it was Richard who was responsible for playing it at the Casino but, not so.

The subsequent backing tracks he did press  up, Wood didnt know about...the Belles was the only one that got Simon's ' treatment ' totally unnecessary of course.

Winstanley playing violin??....the only one ' on the fiddle ' was Simon🤣🤣

Said to have paid Randy Wood a substantial ( at the time ) amount of money. 

22 hours ago, Mal C said:

So strings and violin mix was the soul fox boot, sparse version (Belles Band) the acetate spun by Winstanley.  

Are there a few acetates about of this mix, one initially we know off sent to RW, but Pete Smith may have had one, and yours, all cut from the first one, I guess there maybe others...   

 

Not sure how many are around to be honest , mine is a old "emidisc" with Larry Santos one the other side ,    The label also has the words   " Soul Sheff " on either side . 

8 minutes ago, Carty said:

Not sure how many are around to be honest , mine is a old "emidisc" with Larry Santos one the other side ,    The label also has the words   " Soul Sheff " on either side . 

Well, there were a few djs getting emidiscs cut, became a popular and cheap way of gaining access to the big sounds being played, deffo up to around 78/9 i reckon. Never seen an emi of the Belles band...only the first of the ss acetates.

I'm pretty sure i enquired with Ady as to why it hadnt appeared on either of the Mirwood/Keymen cd comps he put out, a number of years ago now....but, as i said, Simon did a deal with Randy Wood snd when i asked him ( Simon ) he said he still had the backing track so....probably what was being looked for in their archive but they couldnt fjnd it.