Morning. 

Hope you don't mind me asking what may seem an anal question. 

Any of you learned folk know what the true story over the Pat Lewis Goldmine release of Terri Bryant's wonderful Verve release of Genie was?

I seem to remember something about a lost master tape, also another tale that a certain entrepreneur just brought her into the studio to cut a like for like recording.

Another that she was originally in the backing vocals to give the release credibility. 

Unsure If this was confirmed. 

In anticipation,thank you for taking the time to respond. 

Ade.

https://youtu.be/ANkJtwXYlKY?si=uIXfacMBKozbwvW9

Wasn't the Pat Lewis version of "Geni" Goldmine release from those Groovesville masters obtained originally from Don Davis' son, that appeared on that Groovesville Masters cassette tapes set that appeared around 1990?  I heard, back during the 1960s (maybe from Ron Murphy?) that Lewis, then one of Don Davis' and Lebaron Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions' regular artists, and one of their main background singers, was chosen to sing the demo versions of "Geni" and "When I'm In Your Arms" for Solid Hitbound's special contracted production of that record for Sussex Productions and MGM/Verve, the latter of whom already had Ms. Bryant under artist contract.  That's why Pat Lewis' version was not released.  MGM/Verve probably placed a specific clause in their contract with Solid Hitbound, that the latter couldn't issue a commercial version of either song on their own labels.  So, Lewis' version, sung over the same general background tracks(but a different mix), was likely just the demo that Bryant used as a guide, and was never intended to be issued on Solid Hit Records.  It seems that Solid Hitbound/Groovesville was contracted by Sussex(Clarence Avent) to write the songs and supervise the recording session (in Detroit, I believe at United Sound) together with George McGregor, and have Mike Terry arrange it, for MGM/Verve, who needed material and producers to produce sessions on their newly-signed artist (Terri Bryant).  Verve and Sussex (primary contractors) contracted with a different production crew (George Kerr) and arranger (Richard Tee) for her other Verve release, "Everything's Wonderful", (recorded in New York).  I'm guessing that Avent "discovered" Bryant, and got her the audition with Verve, which is why there are 3 different major players in this project, with a prime contractor, Avent's Sussex Productions, a subcontractor, Taylor and Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions, and Record Company MGM/Verve Records.  Apparently, Avent brought Bryant to Verve, and either HE, or his subcontractor, Solid Hitbound, brought in free lance songwriter/producer, George McGregor, a session producer, and Avent didn't trust McGregor's songwriting to be good enough to produce a hit, so Davis' Groovesville was chosen to write the songs and produce the demos, and use their regular arranger, and provide the background vocalists and produce the instrumental and background singers tracks.  Despite paying out more for this deluxe over-costly contract setup, with an extra middle man, Bryant's 2 records charted modestly, but didn't bring in enough sales, more than having McGregor write the songs, produce the session alone, arrange for the background singers, arrange the songs himself, or have the same, Mike Terry, arrange, and cut out Davis and Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions, altogether.

I heard also (from another Detroit friend) that Pat had, indeed, been one of the background singers on the background track.  I can't remember, offhand, who the other background singers were.  But, they were likely other Don Davis Groovesville regulars.

Edited February 7Feb 7 by Robbk

I have an MP3 called 'Solid Hitbound Productions - Genie (instrumental)' which sounds like a proper Inst, you can hear the stylus hit the grooves....just love the melody of it.... 

Pat Lewis 7inch scan below 🙂  WHAT A RECORD!

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

Wasn't the Pat Lewis version of "Geni" Goldmine release from those Groovesville masters obtained originally from Don Davis' son, that appeared on that Groovesville Masters cassette tapes set that appeared around 1990?  I heard, back during the 1960s (maybe from Ron Murphy?) that Lewis, then one of Don Davis' and Lebaron Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions' regular artists, and one of their main background singers, was chosen to sing the demo versions of "Geni" and "When I'm In Your Arms" for Solid Hitbound's special contracted production of that record for Sussex Productions and MGM/Verve, the latter of whom already had Ms. Bryant under artist contract.  That's why Pat Lewis' version was not released.  MGM/Verve probably placed a specific clause in their contract with Solid Hitbound, that the latter couldn't issue a commercial version of either song on their own labels.  So, Lewis' version, sung over the same general background tracks(but a different mix), was likely just the demo that Bryant used as a guide, and was never intended to be issued on Solid Hit Records.  It seems that Solid Hitbound/Groovesville was contracted by Sussex(Clarence Avent) to write the songs and supervise the recording session (in Detroit, I believe at United Sound) together with George McGregor, and have Mike Terry arrange it, for MGM/Verve, who needed material and producers to produce sessions on their newly-signed artist (Terri Bryant).  Verve and Sussex (primary contractors) contracted with a different production crew (George Kerr) and arranger (Richard Tee) for her other Verve release, "Everything's Wonderful", (recorded in New York).  I'm guessing that Avent "discovered" Bryant, and got her the audition with Verve, which is why there are 3 different major players in this project, with a prime contractor, Avent's Sussex Productions, a subcontractor, Taylor and Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions, and Record Company MGM/Verve Records.  Apparently, Avent brought Bryant to Verve, and either HE, or his subcontractor, Solid Hitbound, brought in free lance songwriter/producer, George McGregor, a session producer, and Avent didn't trust McGregor's songwriting to be good enough to produce a hit, so Davis' Groovesville was chosen to write the songs and produce the demos, and use their regular arranger, and provide the background vocalists and produce the instrumental and background singers tracks.  Despite paying out more for this deluxe over-costly contract setup, with an extra middle man, Bryant's 2 records charted modestly, but didn't bring in enough sales, more than having McGregor write the songs, produce the session alone, arrange for the background singers, arrange the songs himself, or have the same, Mike Terry, arrange, and cut out Davis and Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions, altogether.

I heard also (from another Detroit friend) that Pat had, indeed, been one of the background singers on the background track.  I can't remember, offhand, who the other background singers were.  But, they were likely other Don Davis Groovesville regulars.

Your Knowledge about Rare/Northern Soul amazes me. I have read some of your other posts. If there was such a thing as a Phd in the subject you would have one. I'm sure people on this site have mentioned you should write a book ; I concur. I guess like most things in life it's having the time & energy do it. Although I would guess all of your posts on this site would make up a book. Thank you for sharing 

From Billboard -November 12, 1966- 

53 minutes ago, Nsdancer said:

Your Knowledge about Rare/Northern Soul amazes me. I have read some of your other posts. If there was such a thing as a Phd in the subject you would have one. I'm sure people on this site have mentioned you should write a book ; I concur. I guess like most things in life it's having the time & energy do it. Although I would guess all of your posts on this site would make up a book. Thank you for sharing 

Approaching 80 years old, and not having the energy for such things, I don't think I'm going to be able or willing to put the time and effort into writing a book.  And I don't have any children who would sue anyone for publishing any of my posts on this website or Soulful Detroit.  So, if, after I'm gone (from this World - not just this website), someone wants to gather up and edit all my posts on Motown, Detroit Soul, and Chicago Soul Music, and edit it, and compose it into a coherent publication, I'll have no objections.  I won't come back from the grave to haunt such a person.  😉

Edited February 8Feb 8 by Robbk

The instrumental is on the Goldmine/Soul Supply CD Groovesville Review

Another thing.....  I don't think the singer on the Connoisseurs record above is Pat Lewis (or at least the recording being played on the video is not).  They put the wrong recording on the video.  That voice sounds EXACTLY like Terri Bryant.  And, I even think it's her Verve take on the released record, possibly with a slightly different instrumental mix.  I have the Groovesville Masters cassette tape from 1989 or 1990, that was issued not long after it was discovered in Don Davis' tape archive. Bryant's voice is light and breathy with a very high register, while Pat sang with a fuller voice at a deeper register.  Listen to "Warning", "I'll Bet You", "No One To Love", "Let's Go Together", "Look At What I Almost Missed".  Those 2 Ladies had quite different voices, with different tones and sung at different registers.  The real Pat Lewis version had Pat's deeper voice, as well as a more simple, basic instrumental background mix, in which the bass was more prominent.  I don't have an operating cassette deck with me nor the cassette, so I can't convert it to MP3 or MP4 for you all to hear for yourselves.  But it is clear that someone made a mistake trying to identify an unlabeled tape.

 

Edited February 10Feb 10 by Robbk

3 hours ago, Robbk said:

Another thing.....  I don't think the singer on the Connoisseurs record above is Pat Lewis (or at least the recording being played on the video is not).  They put the wrong recording on the video.  That voice sounds EXACTLY like Terri Bryant.  And, I even think it's her Verve take on the released record, possibly with a slightly different instrumental mix.  I have the Groovesville Masters cassette tape from 1989 or 1990, that was issued not long after it was discovered in Don Davis' tape archive. Bryant's voice is light and breathy with a very high register, while Pat sang with a fuller voice at a deeper register.  Listen to "Warning", "I'll Bet You", "No One To Love", "Let's Go Together", "Look At What I Almost Missed".  Those 2 Ladies had quite different voices, with different tones and sung at different registers.  The real Pat Lewis version had Pat's deeper voice, as well as a more simple, basic instrumental background mix, in which the base was more prominent.  I don't have an operating cassette deck with me nor the cassette, so I can't convert it to MP3 or MP4 for you all tom hear for yourselves.  But it is clear that someone made a mistake trying to identify an unlabeled tape.

 

Like yourself Robb,i think the version credited to Pat Lewis is another take by  Terry Bryant.The drumming on the so called Pat Lewis version is much more pronounced and i am assuming that this is George Mcgregor himself playing the drums.

Just compared Terri and Pat, Pat is definitely Terri to my ears and not Pat Lewis.  

6 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Just compared Terri and Pat, Pat is definitely Terri to my ears and not Pat Lewis.  

Exactly. 

The reason for my post😉

3 hours ago, Geronimo said:

Exactly. 

The reason for my post😉

You should get ahold of the cuts from The Groovesville Masters Tapes.  Lots of Soulies got them, plus carvers were made, and I'm sure people would be glad to send you a digital copy.  I didn't like the sound quality of the originals very much, as it was clear that several of their instrumentals were sparse and basic, because they were just demos made for Davis to lease the songs.  As I recall, on Pat's version, the bass was much more prominent and the strings were light and pushed way back in the mix (if they were there at all).  It's been a lot of years since I listened to it.  But the vocal was quite different from Terri's, and good too, as Pat had more range (and really, I rate her a much more polished singer).  The background is disappointing next to the finished, "A" side (hit treatment) McGregor/Terry and Don Davis gave the commercial version.  But, that's par for the course with demo versions.  If any of you get a friend to send you a digital file of Pat's version, please upload it on this thread, so that everyone can know about Connoisseur's error.

Edited February 11Feb 11 by Robbk

In a detailed interview , and subsequent article, I did with George McGregor he told me that he would frequently have a 'scratch' vocal of his songs made in order to help the chosen artist learn the song. By his own admission, he admitted that he couldn't sing himself so others were essential to this process. He liked to use Pat Lewis on songs in this fashion because she could pick up new songs quickly. Most of the songs he recorded like this were on tapes that were re used after use. There is also a recording of Pat singing 'When I'm in your arms' performed in the same scant style.

Edited February 11Feb 11 by Rob Moss

11 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Like yourself Robb,i think the version credited to Pat Lewis is another take by  Terry Bryant.The drumming on the so called Pat Lewis version is much more pronounced and i am assuming that this is George Mcgregor himself playing the drums.

Yes.  I would bet that Don Davis and George wouldn't want to pay another drummer, when George was right there anyway, and likely a better drummer than they would get -ad Hoc.  And George was the producer, and knew exactly what he wanted for his song.

6 hours ago, Rob Moss said:

In a detailed interview , and subsequent article, I did with George McGregor he told me that he would frequently have a 'scratch' vocal of his songs made in order to help the chosen artist learn the song. By his own admission, he admitted that he couldn't sing himself so others were essential to this process. He liked to use Pat Lewis on songs in this fashion because she could pick up new songs quickly. Most of the songs he recorded like this were on tapes that were re used after use.

That maybe so but the Pat Lewis one doesn’t sound like a guide vocal, she sounds exactly like Terri Bryant. 

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

That maybe so but the Pat Lewis one doesn’t sound like a guide vocal, she sounds exactly like Terri Bryant. 

That's because it's an alternate mix of Terri Bryant in the George McGregor/Don Davis produced session for Verve.  But I've heard the Pat Lewis demo version, with a good vocal, but less complex (more sparse) instrumental, among the "Groovesville Master Tapes" that were introduced to The NS Scene near the end of the 1980s, and (if I remember correctly) the best of which were played from carvers by a couple DJs, and not long after (about 1990?) were made available (sold) to collectors in the form of a set of cassette tapes.  I got tapes of all those I thought sounded good (several were nowhere near finished (demos in early stages)).  There were adverts for them in several NS fanzines/magazines/newsletters.  I'd guess that you remember them, Chalky, and might have bought a set yourself, or bought those that were later pressed on vinyl records on UK re-issue labels.  As far as I know, this supposed "Pat Lewis" cut is the only one that was botched, using the wrong recording.  I can't remember what they all were, but several were unreleased Steve Mancha, J.J. Barnes, Pat Lewis, Melvin Davis, Darrell Banks, and a few GW/Ric-Tic artists I didn't know recorded for Don Davis/Solid Hitbound.  There were also one or 2 Detroit Soul artists I didn't know recorded for either Don Davis OR Ed Wingate.

On 08/02/2025 at 06:05, Chalky said:

The instrumental is on the Goldmine/Soul Supply CD Groovesville Review

So, Goldmine Soul Supply issued a CD on those same Groovesville Masters that were released on the cassette tapes set?  There were enough for at least a couple CDs.  But, maybe Goldmine only put the best 30, or so, on it.  So, Don Davis and LeBaron Taylor must have paid for Terri Bryant's recording session and got re-imbursed for those costs in their fees to Avant or Verve, if Davis kept her session tapes with his Groovesville Records master tapes.  That means that BOTH Terri's and Pat's versions were in his archive.  And Goldmine's staff got them mixed up.  I'd guess, then, that the wrong version is also on that CD.  I wonder who has those Groovesville master tapes now?   Did Davis' son sell them off, or just lease them?

Fabulous informative replies guys,brilliant to read.

Thank you. 

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

So, Goldmine Soul Supply issued a CD on those same Groovesville Masters that were released on the cassette tapes set?  There were enough for at least a couple CDs.  But, maybe Goldmine only put the best 30, or so, on it.  So, Don Davis and LeBaron Taylor must have paid for Terri Bryant's recording session and got re-imbursed for those costs in their fees to Avant or Verve, if Davis kept her session tapes with his Groovesville Records master tapes.  That means that BOTH Terri's and Pat's versions were in his archive.  And Goldmine's staff got them mixed up.  I'd guess, then, that the wrong version is also on that CD.  I wonder who has those Groovesville master tapes now?   Did Davis' son sell them off, or just lease them?

Robbk,

 

Just spoken to Tim, only a brief comment...he said the master tape which they used, had Pat Lewis written on it so....not their mistake?, wrong name written on by whoever handled the tape when storing?.

I did mention that i'd listened to both Goldmine and Verve recordings and i agree, other than the sound quality being remastered and the strings more to the background, it's Terri Bryant's voice....he didn't make a point of disagreeing.

I suppose in hindsight, had they listened to both recordings, they would've picked up on that but, they took the tape at face value.

The irony is, an artist who never had a release here before, got one, if somewhat fortuitously.

Just to clear things up from one perspective, and i don't possess any of the Groovesville Review cds, but Terri Bryant's recording is on vol. 2 and Pat Lewis recording is on vol.3.

Therefore, anyone who does have them can vouch for the identity of the artist on those recordings.

Theyve ( the soundclips )  not been posted on here to settle the debate so can someone put them up please?

Well....can i ask the question then, if anyone is still viewing the thread. IS Pat Lewis' vocal louder?, to the forefront as opposed to the orchestration?

On 11/02/2025 at 06:30, Agentsmith said:

Well....can i ask the question then, if anyone is still viewing the thread. IS Pat Lewis' vocal louder?, to the forefront as opposed to the orchestration?

Unfortunately, I have neither of those CDs.  But I CAN tell you that on the real Pat Lewis demo tape, on the cassette release, and on the individual tape made for me, Pat Lewis' vocal was much more prominent than the strings and horns, and all the instrumental other than the bass, which seemed too strong for my taste.  The instrumental on that version was a lot  more basic, and I'm not sure if one of horns or strings was missing altogether.  Bass, and guitar were clear, with bass much heavier.  Other than that, I'm not sure.  It's been a lot of years since I've listened to it.  I'm hoping that someone with the 2 CDs will upload the 2 cuts. There must be someone on this thread that bought the CDs, or know someone that worked for Goldmine.

11 hours ago, Robbk said:

Unfortunately, I have neither of those CDs.  But I CAN tell you that on the real Pat Lewis demo tape, on the cassette release, and on the individual tape made for me, Pat Lewis' vocal was much more prominent than the strings and horns, and all the instrumental other than the bass, which seemed too strong for my taste.  The instrumental on that version was a lot  more basic, and I'm not sure if one of horns or strings was missing altogether.  Bass, and guitar were clear, with bass much heavier.  Other than that, I'm not sure.  It's been a lot of years since I've listened to it.  I'm hoping that someone with the 2 CDs will upload the 2 cuts. There must be someone on this thread that bought the CDs, or know someone that worked for Goldmine.

Rob

I've got the CDs but couldn't get the two Genie tracks to download on to this post. 

Perhaps someone who knows how I can do this will let me know.

Listening to both versions they , as others have said, sound like the same vocalist (Terri Bryant) with just a little difference in the mix . The instrumentation sounds finished with strings and full backing and not a "scratch" version. There is the proper backing track on the CD Groovesville Review Vol 1 which sounds exactly like the Verve disc without vocals. 

There are other tracks on these CDs that sound like "scratch" recordings that could be the type that Rob Moss mentioned.

1 hour ago, Rick Cooper said:

Rob

I've got the CDs but couldn't get the two Genie tracks to download on to this post. 

Perhaps someone who knows how I can do this will let me know.

Listening to both versions they , as others have said, sound like the same vocalist (Terri Bryant) with just a little difference in the mix . The instrumentation sounds finished with strings and full backing and not a "scratch" version. There is the proper backing track on the CD Groovesville Review Vol 1 which sounds exactly like the Verve disc without vocals. 

There are other tracks on these CDs that sound like "scratch" recordings that could be the type that Rob Moss mentioned.

Are you talking about the 2 Goldmine cds vols 2 & 3?... one volume states Terri Bryant's version, the other says Pat Lewis...to my mind they should be the same but there are no soundclips on discogs primarily i guess because theyre  various artist compilations?....have you listened to both to determine if theyre different or not then?

Edited February 13Feb 13 by Agentsmith

2 hours ago, Agentsmith said:

Are you talking about the 2 Goldmine cds vols 2 & 3?... one volume states Terri Bryant's version, the other says Pat Lewis...to my mind they should be the same but there are no soundclips on discogs primarily i guess because theyre  various artist compilations?....have you listened to both to determine if theyre different or not then?

Yes, Goldmine CDs -Groovesville Review Vol 2 track 7 Terri Bryant- Genie and Groovesville Review Vol 3 track12 Pat Lewis- Genie. I've just played them both and  they both sound the same on the laptop, with possibly a slight difference in the clarity of the "Pat Lewis" version (not as good as Terri Bryant). If I can find out how to download the tracks that should help but as Tim Brown has said the confusion is just down to having "Pat Lewis" on the tape box by mistake

6 minutes ago, Rick Cooper said:

Yes, Goldmine CDs -Groovesville Review Vol 2 track 7 Terri Bryant- Genie and Groovesville Review Vol 3 track12 Pat Lewis- Genie. I've just played them both and  they both sound the same on the laptop, with possibly a slight difference in the clarity of the "Pat Lewis" version (not as good as Terri Bryant). If I can find out how to download the tracks that should help but as Tim Brown has said the confusion is just down to having "Pat Lewis" on the tape box by mistake

Yeah, discogs soundfiles are one and the same ( connoissuers and Detroit Stars ). If Robbk can get his tape transferred, which he has been approached about, we'll know all that's needed to know and get to hear Pat's take as well.

17 minutes ago, Agentsmith said:

Yeah, discogs soundfiles are one and the same ( connoissuers and Detroit Stars ). If Robbk can get his tape transferred, which he has been approached about, we'll know all that's needed to know and get to hear Pat's take as well.

I'm in L.A. now, and have been since The Covid Pandemic started.  I've looked everywhere in my house and storage for the tape, and the personal CD that was made for me which I think had a copy of it.  But have found neither.  One or both may be sitting in my flats in Holland, Denmark or Germany.  But, with a skipping heartbeat, I don't want to travel before I get a heart pacemaker surgically installed.  That won't happen until my cardiologist recommends that, based on the missing beats becoming too frequent.  That's likely to happen within the next 3 years, but we don't know when.  In any case my 35-40 year old cassette tape is bound to have deteriorated (usually cassettes dry out and have weak spots or dropouts).  I know that quite a few of the major NS collectors bought those Groovesville Masters Tapes, and likely most, if not all of them eventually had them converted to CDs or other digital formats.  We should be able to get a much better copy than my cassette version from one of them.  We've currently got some requests in to people who are likely to have the recording on digital.  I'm sure we'll be able to get a file sent to us.

8 hours ago, Robbk said:

I'm in L.A. now, and have been since The Covid Pandemic started.  I've looked everywhere in my house and storage for the tape, and the personal CD that was made for me which I think had a copy of it.  But have found neither.  One or both may be sitting in my flats in Holland, Denmark or Germany.  But, with a skipping heartbeat, I don't want to travel before I get a heart pacemaker surgically installed.  That won't happen until my cardiologist recommends that, based on the missing beats becoming too frequent.  That's likely to happen within the next 3 years, but we don't know when.  In any case my 35-40 year old cassette tape is bound to have deteriorated (usually cassettes dry out and have weak spots or dropouts).  I know that quite a few of the major NS collectors bought those Groovesville Masters Tapes, and likely most, if not all of them eventually had them converted to CDs or other digital formats.  We should be able to get a much better copy than my cassette version from one of them.  We've currently got some requests in to people who are likely to have the recording on digital.  I'm sure we'll be able to get a file sent to us.

I don't know if anyone as looked on youtube (or another music/video site)for these versions. Then post either a link or the actual video on here. Sorry, I don't know how do that, just a suggestion that 'might move' the Pat Lewis,  Terri Bryant conversation along.=0)

1 hour ago, Nsdancer said:

I don't know if anyone as looked on youtube (or another music/video site)for these versions. Then post either a link or the actual video on here. Sorry, I don't know how do that, just a suggestion that 'might move' the Pat Lewis,  Terri Bryant conversation along.=0)

You can post a link to a YouTube music file (MP3 or MP4) by typing or copying the web address (URL) from the Internet address bar at the top of the page into your post window, or you can right click on the picture of the music file to copy it, and then paste it into the "file drag area" below, where you see the paper clip icon and the words: "drag files here to attach".

Don't know if these are of interest?

 

2 minutes ago, Shinehead said:

Don't know if these are of interest?

One and the same, Mel, as has been said and cheers for posting them up. The Connoisseurs copy highlights the remastering, more clarity but, it simply points out what's known...that's it's the same artist...all we need now is Pat's version and hopefully, that will be forthcoming at some point and the thread will be complete.

Right....so, as confirmed to me this morning ( though essentially it's old news because its already been said at the beginning of the thread ) Pat Lewis did record the guide vocal, and also re-recorded it. All that remains is for it to be heard on here, hopefully that will happen before too long🤞She also recorded the original take of " When I'm In Your Arms " ( the b side to Terri Bryant's debut single for Verve )

And the Geni release on Connoissuers is Terri Bryant.