COLUMBIA RED ISSUES

[Dobber]

The USA Columbia red issues where northern soul is concerned seem to be infinitely rarer than the various demos….why?

these 3 off the top of my head….any more?

dana valery

liz verdi

Turley Richards

[Alan T]

Jimmy Fraser - Tombstones

Susan Rewis - They Say

Linda Lloyd - Breakaway

 

[Dobber]

1 minute ago, Alan T said:

Jimmy Fraser - Tombstones

Susan Rewis - They Say

Linda Lloyd - Breakaway

 

Would you say these were much rarer than the demos,I know the jimmy fraser defo is?

[Dobber]

19 minutes ago, Alan T said:

Jimmy Fraser - Tombstones

Susan Rewis - They Say

Linda Lloyd - Breakaway

 

Thank you for reminding me of the Linda Lloyd tune too….superb

[Mgm 1251]

17 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Thank you for reminding me of the Linda Lloyd tune too….superb

Must admit I do prefer the demos...red on White always looks good,as opposed to the Black on Red,the Red always seems to be mottled and blotchy...

[Roburt]

Many of the above have little to do with soul ... other than being spun at UK NS events ...

THAT ASIDE .... it seems it was the US Vice President who got behind this BACK TO SCHOOL 45 release and it was the US Government that wanted Jimmy Fraser's 45 to get an official commercial release (copies in American record stores) ...

 

[Alan T]

51 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Would you say these were much rarer than the demos,I know the jimmy fraser defo is?

 

33 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Thank you for reminding me of the Linda Lloyd tune too….superb

I've had a red Linda Lloyd. The ones I listed are a lot harder to find as issues, I'd add Eric Lomax to that list too.

[Mot]

I've had a Susan Rewis - They Say on red Columbia issue.......I've never really seen many of them only the odd few (maybe?), most seem to be white demo's.

This was my copy but ended up selling it a number of years ago 

Edited 9 hours ago by Mot
Image added.

[Woodbutcher]

I love the look of the Susan Rewis on the red Rhodesian CBS label with the triangular centre as seen on Discogs , can't imagine why it got pressed/released over there.

 

[Mot]

35 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

I love the look of the Susan Rewis on the red Rhodesian CBS label with the triangular centre as seen on Discogs , can't imagine why it got pressed/released over there.

 

That does look great!

[Dobber]

11 hours ago, Roburt said:

 

Many of the above have little to do with soul ... other than being spun at UK NS events ...

 

Now that is a whole other ponder? First off…what is soul? Is northern soul just about “soul” and for me i dont think the northern soul would have survived out of the 70’s without these so called “not soul” or “it’s a pop song” wouldn’t most most peoples top 20 be made up of the likes of Dana valery….jimmy Fraser…liz Verdi?

anyway back to subject,whats your thoughts on why with major labels there seems to be loads of demos and next to nothing issues in a lot of cases?

 

[Mal C]

13 minutes ago, Dobber said:

 

anyway back to subject,whats your thoughts on why with major labels there seems to be loads of demos and next to nothing issues in a lot of cases?

 

Promotion and feedback, simple. That said certain producers and by extension the promotion guys had their preferred artists, so indi and one off recordings were doomed in most cases to not get beyond demo stage, even if they had sold well in their local areas. 
 

I think we forget sometimes with what it was like back then, certainly from what I’ve read, the music industry was segregated, and as the two markets came together, allot got lost in the mix. 
 

Don’t they have a term in sales, ‘low hanging fruit’ Michael by the C.O.D.S is a great example, but for every ‘Michael’ there were 10 lesser or unprompted records, equally as good but without someone to really push them.

[Dobber]

47 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Promotion and feedback, simple. That said certain producers and by extension the promotion guys had their preferred artists, so indi and one off recordings were doomed in most cases to not get beyond demo stage, even if they had sold well in their local areas. 
 

I think we forget sometimes with what it was like back then, certainly from what I’ve read, the music industry was segregated, and as the two markets came together, allot got lost in the mix. 
 

Don’t they have a term in sales, ‘low hanging fruit’ Michael by the C.O.D.S is a great example, but for every ‘Michael’ there were 10 lesser or unprompted records, equally as good but without someone to really push them.

Yeah that makes sense my mate,well put

[Roburt]

I'm not too sure it was exactly the same case with US 45's, but this was sure what went on with albums ...

Big record companies would sign artists by the dozen. They'd put a lot of effort into the initial releases from each artist (ads to support an album release, financing promo live shows / short tour, etc + releasing a 45 to help publicise the album, etc. If an act's record didn't take off then the label's interest would cool. But, many times they'd signed the artist to a 2 year / 3 album deal ... so they had (by contract law) to put out another 2 LP's. They'd have the act back in the studio & lay down the tracks for an album quickly & cheaply. They'd then press up say 1000 copies of the new album but spend not a single $ on promoting it (apart from sending a few copies out to radio stns). OF COURSE, a radio DJ might like a track or 2 on it & spin it on his show. The album could then get some traction & the label would make a bit of an effort to increase it's sales. BUT, lots of the time, the album would escape almost un-noticed. The label would then ( 2 / 3 months later) add the pressed copies to it's CUT-OUTS pile. These would be sold off in bulk to ONE-STOPS , record warehouses, shipping companies that needed heavy ballast for an Atlantic passage by a freighter.

.. ...  .. the 2nd & 3rd albums would therefore gain release but next to no money would be spent on them. Copies would say cost 50c to manufacture but could be sold off in bulk for say 25c each. The label would declare a loss on the product that they could claim tax relief on. So these artists releases hadn't 'caught on' but it had cost the record company next to nothing in real terms to honour the contract they'd entered into.  

WITH REGARD TO 45's ... a similar process would be followed ... many new 45 releases would be pressed up in PROMO COPY format (say 5000 copies) and these would be sent out to radio station jocks (& later in the 70's to disco DJ's). If the 45 in question gained little or no radio / club plays then a minimal number of 'issue copies' would be all that was pressed up. IF THE 45 did get some radio action, then the single in question would get a proper run of issue copies being manufactured in the label's pressing plant. These would then be made available for sale to ONE-STOPS, record stores, etc. and it would have the chance to sell in bulk and maybe make the charts. But for every 45 that got to enjoy a decent pressing run, there were many others that didn't.

[Roburt]

As I posted on the recent article 1964 – The Year Billboard Abandoned R&B, record company promo men would stalk radio DJ's to influence them in what to play on their shows. They'd go to sock hop / club nights the DJ's were hosting and hand over copies of that labels new 45 releases while buying drinks for the jock most of the night.

ANOTHER TACTIC ... bigger labels (Motown, Stax, Capitol, Arctic, etc.) would get their acts to do chitlin circuit shows for certain radio jocks. The acts would play one night for free & the jock would pocket all the takings from the show. IN RETURN, that label would expect the jock to playlist all the label's new 45 releases ... DJ's such as HOT ROD would put on such shows in Baltimore with the acts playing for him for free --  he was on air there with radio stns  WEBB, WWIN and WITH (at different times).

Edited 4 hours ago by Roburt

[Dobber]

1 hour ago, Roburt said:

As I posted on the recent article 1964 – The Year Billboard Abandoned R&B, record company promo men would stalk radio DJ's to influence them in what to play on their shows. They'd go to sock hop / club nights the DJ's were hosting and hand over copies of that labels new 45 releases while buying drinks for the jock most of the night.

ANOTHER TACTIC ... bigger labels (Motown, Stax, Capitol, Arctic, etc.) would get their acts to do chitlin circuit shows for certain radio jocks. The acts would play one night for free & the jock would pocket all the takings from the show. IN RETURN, that label would expect the jock to playlist all the label's new 45 releases ... DJ's such as HOT ROD would put on such shows in Baltimore with the acts playing for him for free --  he was on air there with radio stns  WEBB, WWIN and WITH (at different times).

Very informative,and thank you for taking the time out to show us this info