Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?

Hammy

Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?     

Hammy

link

Well i'm not going to argue..........How big is big?...

I concur - everything they did had a fantastic level of QUALITY that few acts could match.

My personal favourite is Please Take Me Back on Bell (t'other side of How Big Is Big).

As a vocalist Lee Jones had few equals, possibly only Marvin Junior of The Dells.

Great as the MASQUERADERS are

For me it's a dead heat between

THE TEMPTATIONS and THE IMPRESSIONS.

Derek

What about the Magnetics that later became the Volumes?? (think I remember reading they were fronted by Billy Kenedy)

"Lady in green"/"Heart you're made of stone" (Magnetics) - one of the best double-siders IMO

"Same old feeling" (Volumes) - fairly new to me but bloody AWESOOOOOOOME

"Ain't gonna give you up" (Volumes) - their last and best

Them uns is my three faves, can't bring any more to mind at the moment (well it is late!)

Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?     

Hammy

link

how would you know what's good , you support hibs.but seriously

are you coming to the all-dayer on sunday?.

Edited April 15, 200520 yr by gogs

Falcons aswell, can't think of a bad single by them.....

"I'm a fool"

"Love love love"

"Good good feeling"

"Love you like you've never been loved"

"Got to make a move" (my fave )

"Has it happened to you yet"

"Love look in her eyes"

"I can't help it"

"Standing on guard"

Falcons aswell, can't think of a bad single by them.....

"I'm a fool"

"Love love love"

"Good good feeling"

"Love you like you've never been loved"

"Got to make a move" (my fave )

"Has it happened to you yet"

"Love look in her eyes"

"I can't help it"

"Standing on guard"

link

although same of it's a bit iffy most of the stuff by the dells is class.

What about the Magnetics that later became the Volumes?? (think I remember reading they were fronted by Billy Kenedy)

"Lady in green"/"Heart you're made of stone" (Magnetics) - one of the best double-siders IMO

"Same old feeling" (Volumes) - fairly new to me but bloody AWESOOOOOOOME

"Ain't gonna give you up" (Volumes) - their last and best

Them uns is my three faves, can't bring any more to mind at the moment (well it is late!)

link

Different group Billy. Dennis Coffey played on both the Magnetics and the Volumes sessions and he says they are not the same group.

The Ruffin/Kendricks era of the Temptations is untouchable by any group IMHO

Masqueraders excellent as are the Diplomats.

Falcons aswell, can't think of a bad single by them.....

"Got to make a move" (my fave )

link

Mine too - came out twice in the 80s and I reckon both are pretty hard to find.

Different group Billy.  Dennis Coffey played on both the Magnetics and the Volumes sessions and he says they are not the same group.

link

This now seems to be the definite story since we have to trust Dennis on this I think. The previous theory I think was that it was Gerald Mathis (sings lead on their Impact 45 "That Same Old Feeling") that was the lead in the Magnetics, since they are vocally quite similar, at least I think they sound very similar. The lead on Karen is a Jimmy Burger (funny name...) I think, and I also think he is the lead on their Inferno sides, a very distinctive voice he has. On the American Arts sides the lead is sung by yet another guy. They were a bit like the Temptations, changing leads and styles over the years.

The Masqueraders are definitely one of the best male soul groups but I hesitate to nominate them as the best ever or to nominate Lee Jones as best male soul singer ever and so on, there are just so many good male singers and groups to choose from. I like most of the Masqueraders stuff but I personally tink "How Big Is Big" is some kind of C&W influenced weird stuff that really leaves me cold.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Masqueraders. Lee Jones had a great voice and they made some exceptional records, some of which turned out to be unique special sounds.

But isn't it true that on virtually every record they are trying to recreate the current in demand sound?

As I say, in practice they surpassed rather than recreated leaving us with superb sounds. But their attempts at trying to match what was currently '"in" means that they never managed to create a uniquely Masquearders sound.

Edit:

Since writing this I have read Christain H's comment on records like "How Big is Big". This is another problem with not being consistent about the sound you want to produce.

Edited April 15, 200520 yr by Billy Freemantle

The Ruffin/Kendricks era of the Temptations is untouchable by any group IMHO 

link

So very true Chalk. Always been my fave group the Temps. Gotta hand it to the Tempests also produced some great stuff

Don't get me wrong. I love the Masqueraders. Lee Jones had a great voice and they made some exceptional records, some of which turned out to be unique special sounds.

But isn't it true that on virtually every record they are trying to recreate the current in demand sound?

As I say, in practice they surpassed rather than recreated leaving us with superb sounds. But their attempts at trying to match what was currently '"in" means that they never managed to create a uniquely Masquearders sound.

Edit:

Since writing this I have read Christain H's comment on records like "How Big is Big". This is another problem with not being consistent about the sound you want to produce.

link

I quite like that about them, such a variety of 'sounds' but I think there's always something indentifiably 'Masqueraders' about each song.

Astounding harmonies

How Big is Big and Ain't Got To Love Nobody Else are beautiful...

Different group Billy.  Dennis Coffey played on both the Magnetics and the Volumes sessions and he says they are not the same group.

link

Same frontman though, surely? Listen to "Lady in green" then to "Same old felling" - if they're not the same they're perfect soundalikes

Mine too - came out twice in the 80s and I reckon both are pretty hard to find.

link

Have you got one? If so you'll have to come and do us a spot so you can play it for me

The Masqueraders have just been confirmed and added to the Northampton weekender later on in the year...wow so thats The Just Brothers, Chuck Jackson, Willie Kendrick and now these guys, this should be a wonderful weekend, more details i'm sure to follow from the promoters......see you at the bar.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?     

Hammy

link

"How Big is Big" is special to me and someone dear to my heart

Just an average guy / Aint gonna stop AGP.

Desert island disc or what?

Whats this about a weekender in Northampton??

Regards

Jim.

Same frontman though, surely? Listen to "Lady in green" then to "Same old felling" - if they're not the same they're perfect soundalikes

link

Dennis Coffey said totally different and unrelated group, so presume none of the members same. Said the same to me when I was chatting to him at Cleethorpes.

This now seems to be the definite story since we have to trust Dennis on this I think. The previous theory I think was that it was Gerald Mathis (sings lead on their Impact 45 "That Same Old Feeling") that was the lead in the Magnetics, since they are vocally quite similar, at least I think they sound very similar. The lead on Karen is a Jimmy Burger (funny name...) I think, and I also think he is the lead on their Inferno sides, a very distinctive voice he has. On the American Arts sides the lead is sung by yet another guy. They were a bit like the Temptations, changing leads and styles over the years.

link

Eddie Union on the American Arts and Chex releases.

Just an average guy / Aint gonna stop  AGP.

Desert island disc or what?

Whats this about a weekender in Northampton??

Regards

Jim.

link

Find out more about the Northampton weekend:

HERE

Cheers

Nick

Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?     

Hammy

link

wot about butch's masqueraders.

wot about butch's masqueraders.

link

Will be hearing it tonight

Will be hearing it tonight 

link

But that is not really the Masqueraders is it? Just his cover up name for whatever it is right?

Just what are the different Magnetics releases, have been told before, but can't remember, wasn't Lee McKinney the lead on Lady In Green ? (As in different i mean....differing groups under that name.)Brett

I agree that the Temptations in the Ruffin/Kendricks era were almost unbeatable, but from a Northern point, I'm going for the Hesitations. Awesome.

The Volumes Formed around 1960 made up of five Detroit teenagers which were Eddie Union lead singer on all the Chex, Jubilee, Old Town and American Arts records including 'Gotta Give Her Love' B/W 'I Can't Live Without You, 'I Just Can't Help Myself' B/W 'One Way Lover' Elijah "Teenie" Davis-first tenor, Larry Wright-second tenor (not sure if this is the 'Sweet Sweet Kisses' Larry Wright but it's possible), Joe Truvillion-baritone and Ernest Newson-bass.

Eddie Union left the group in 1965 Larry Wright sang lead on the Twirl record 'Maintain You Cool' B/W ' I Got Love' - Twirl 2016, Some line up changes and shuffling followed and Gerald Mathis sang lead on their 1966 Impact release 'The Trouble I've Seen' B/W 'That Same Old Feeling' and then Jimmy Burger sang lead on the three Inferno releases between 1967 and 68.

Eddie Union returned to the group in 1968 for two years in which time there were no recording sessions until hooking up with legendary producer Ollie McLaughlin where during this time they recorded the superb 'Ain't Gonna Give You Up' again i think 'Union' sang lead on this.

I'm not sure if 'The Magnetics' connection is just rumour or Northern Soul folk-law were there not three Magnetics groups anyway, Sable,Bonnie and Rasel are three different outfits i thought? but the information above is i believe correct and i hope it helps at least from this you now know that there were at least three front men on 'The Volumes' records.

Hope It Helps - Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Just what are the different Magnetics releases, have been told before, but can't remember, wasn't Lee McKinney the lead on Lady In Green ? (As in different i mean....differing groups under that name.)Brett

link

I think Lee McKinney was part of the Chicago lot on Sable, different group to the Detroit one on Bonnie.

The Volumes Formed around 1960 made up of five Detroit teenagers which were Eddie Union lead singer on all the Chex, Jubilee, Old Town and American Arts records including 'Gotta Give Her Love' B/W 'I Can't Live Without You, 'I Just Can't Help Myself' B/W 'One Way Lover' Elijah "Teenie" Davis-first tenor, Larry Wright-second tenor (not sure if this is the 'Sweet Sweet Kisses' Larry Wright but it's possible), Joe Truvillion-baritone and Ernest Newson-bass.

Eddie Union left the group in 1965 Larry Wright sang lead on the Twirl record 'Maintain You Cool' B/W ' I Got Love' - Twirl 2016, Some line up changes and shuffling followed and Gerald Mathis sang lead on their 1966 Impact release 'The Trouble I've Seen' B/W 'That Same Old Feeling' and then Jimmy Burger sang lead on the three Inferno releases between 1967 and 68.

Eddie Union returned to the group in 1968 for two years in which time there were no recording sessions until hooking up with legendary producer Ollie McLaughlin where during this  time they recorded the superb 'Ain't Gonna Give You Up' again i think 'Union' sang lead on this.

I'm not sure if 'The Magnetics' connection is just rumour or Northern Soul folk-law were there not three Magnetics groups anyway, Sable,Bonnie and Rasel are three different outfits i thought? but the information above is i believe correct and i hope it helps at least from this you now know that there were at least three front men on 'The Volumes' records.

Hope It Helps - Regards - Mark Bicknell.

link

Good info, but are you sure it is not Burger on lead on their Karen sides? It sounds very much like him and sounds nothing like the sweeter/smoother/lighter Union IMO.

Listen and compare, it sounds like the same guy to me.

My Kind Of Girl (Inferno) and Ain't Gonna Give You Up (Karen).

My Kind Of Girl

My Kind Of Girl

Ain't Gonna Give You Up

I quite like that about them, such a variety of 'sounds' but I think there's always something indentifiably 'Masqueraders' about each song.

Astounding harmonies 

Yes, perhaps you are right afterall. And the harmonies are superb as you say!

One of the good things about discussions like this is that it makes us listen more closely.

Have you got one? If so you'll have to come and do us a spot so you can play it for me

link

Yes, and it get's played regularly here

One of the good things about discussions like this is that it makes us listen more closely.

link

Christian, Only going off an interview Eddie Union gave in the mid 80's, i guess it's even hard for the group members to get a little cloudy after so many years, i take your point and on listening to the records i tend to agree with you.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Christian, Only going off an interview Eddie Union gave in the mid 80's, i guess it's even hard for the group members to get a little cloudy after so many years, i take your point and on listening to the records i tend to agree with you.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

link

If you say so, and if Eddie said so, I guess it is not for me to doubt, but it often seems (not just in this case) that even the artists themself don't really have a clue, leaving us with no absolute truths but rather more or less probable theories. I see no one has downloaded "My Kind Of Girl" it's a bit string heavy perhaps but a great Detroit sound very worthy of a listen or two! I reckon it's an oldie but where and when was it played, presuming it was played?

If you say so, and if Eddie said so, I guess it is not for me to doubt, but it often seems (not just in this case) that even the artists themself don't really have a clue, leaving us with no absolute truths but rather more or less probable theories.   I see no one has downloaded "My Kind Of Girl" it's a bit string heavy perhaps but a great Detroit sound very worthy of a listen or two! I reckon it's an oldie but where and when was it played, presuming it was played?

link

The way I read your response is you doubt what both Mark and Eddie say

Some great groups mentioned here. Must say I think The Hesitations are ridiculously overrated: they simply couldn't sing, either as soloists or in harmony.

For me it has to be The Masqueraders. The Temptations were very much a 'styled' entity: pliable but (very) capable voices for the latest projects of their writers and producers. I'm not saying that they were not talented singers: few can actually match Ruffin, Kendricks and sundry other erstwhile Temptations on pure vocal ability.

What makes The Masqueraders very special is that they wrote the vast majority of their recorded output, and those songs are actually spectacularly good. Records like "Please Take Me Back," "I Ain't Gonna Stop," "I Aint Got To Love Nobody Else," "Average Guy," "Let's Face Facts" and, particularly "This Heart Is Haunted" (as Lee Jones & The Sounds of Soul on Amy) are all phenomenal soul songs, some of which have been covered admirably, but never bettered. In Lee Jones and Robert Wrightsill they had two world class tenor leads, and the lighter voice of Sam Hutchins was (to my ears) the equal of, for example, Eddie Kendricks.

I think that the view that has The Masqueraders simply taking on others' styles is woefully simplistic. They were a unit with a complete identity of their own. When I read the interview with them on Greg Tormo's website I am not ashamed to admit that I wept at the thought of them still rehearsing every week despite not having had a record deal since 1980: their unshakeable faith in their own ability is completely admirable. I look forward to seeing them perform over here at some point in my lifetime. I hope Lee Jones can be pressed into service: the thought of them all experiencing the kind of welcome they merit is a fantastic prospect. They are the very essense of Soul.

Just what are the different Magnetics releases, have been told before, but can't remember, wasn't Lee McKinney the lead on Lady In Green ? (As in different i mean....differing groups under that name.)Brett

link

Discographies for the five different Magnetics groups, and the Masqueraders can be found using the links below.

The Magnetics

The Masqueraders

Having said that I've got a load of updates for the Masqueraders that someone has sent me and I need to go through their discog and compare it to mine. If there are any differences I'll post the updated one later tonight.

HTH

Edited April 18, 200520 yr by Dave Rimmer

Discographies for the five different Magnetics groups, and the Masqueraders can be found using the links below.

The Magnetics

The Masqueraders

link

Hi Dave (and of course everybody else), do you have aline up for the Brooks Brothers by any chance ?

TIA

Marc

Are these the same fella`s as on wand,if so i might join in?

Hi Dave (and of course everybody else), do you have aline up for the Brooks Brothers by any chance ?

TIA

Marc

link

I've read somwhere that the Brooks Brothers were actually Richard and Arthur Brooks who used to be in The Impressions. No idea if it's correct though.

Try again soucers!,The Masqueraders,I dont want nobody to lead me on;WAND,1168,this was Butch`s Masqueraders,as i bought this of him,fuckin`great too!,luverly!Demo,deffo needs more plays out.

Some great groups mentioned here. Must say I think The Hesitations are ridiculously overrated: they simply couldn't sing, either as soloists or in harmony.

For me it has to be The Masqueraders. The Temptations were very much a 'styled' entity: pliable but (very) capable voices for the latest projects of their writers and producers. I'm not saying that they were not talented singers: few can actually match Ruffin, Kendricks and sundry other erstwhile Temptations on pure vocal ability.

What makes The Masqueraders very special is that they wrote the vast majority of their recorded output, and those songs are actually spectacularly good. Records like "Please Take Me Back," "I Ain't Gonna Stop," "I Aint Got To Love Nobody Else," "Average Guy," "Let's Face Facts" and, particularly "This Heart Is Haunted" (as Lee Jones & The Sounds of Soul on Amy) are all phenomenal soul songs, some of which have been covered admirably, but never bettered. In Lee Jones and Robert Wrightsill they had two world class tenor leads, and the lighter voice of Sam Hutchins was (to my ears) the equal of, for example, Eddie Kendricks.

I think that the view that has The Masqueraders simply taking on others' styles is woefully simplistic. They were a unit with a complete identity of their own. When I read the interview with them on Greg Tormo's website I am not ashamed to admit that I wept at the thought of them still rehearsing every week despite not having had a record deal since 1980: their unshakeable faith in their own ability is completely admirable. I look forward to seeing them perform over here at some point in my lifetime. I hope Lee Jones can be pressed into service: the thought of them all experiencing the kind of welcome they merit is a fantastic prospect. They are the very essense of Soul.

link

Excellent post. Not sure if I agree with you though on the Hesitations. The voices are not brilliant but are really very pleasant and easy on the ear. And the overall sound of their records is speedy and definitely a Northern vibe.

Your are probably right to say that the view that the Masqueraders were 'simply taking on others' styles' is simplistic. But I wouldn't go so far as to qualify this with 'woefully'! Isn't it true that they were trying for a hit (and who can blame them?) by trying to hook into what was hot?

Nobody can dispute that they were - and perhaps still are - massively talented and one of those acts to whom we can attach the term 'neglected'without sounding over the top.

Edited April 18, 200520 yr by Billy Freemantle

I  I see no one has downloaded "My Kind Of Girl" it's a bit string heavy perhaps but a great Detroit sound very worthy of a listen or two! I reckon it's an oldie but where and when was it played, presuming it was played?

link

I like it strings and all.

The way I read your response is you doubt what both Mark and Eddie say   

link

Hmm, you're right I guess. When listening and comparing it is very hard to think it is NOT Jimmy Burger on lead on Karen though, unless the other guy started sounding completely like him and stopped sounding like himself. And as far as I can gather from the posts Eddie does not claim to sing lead, only to have rejoined the group in 1968.

P.S. Something for the discographers, please, there is NO Karen 101 release for the Volumes, it is a mistake due to someone not being able to tell or understand the difference between the release # and the master # (which is 101 on "Ain't Gonna Give You Up" and 100 on the official topside "Am I Losing You" on Karen 1551). All evidence suggests this is the case and so far no 101 has been reported or identified, and the reason is that it does most likely not exist other than as a mistake that has been perpetuated over the years.

Edited April 18, 200520 yr by Guest

I said i agree with you Christian, was simply quoting an interview from liner notes via a Relic LP of Volumes Chex recordings which was an interview with Union in the mid 80's, as i said often the artists are a little cloudy of their past so what chance do we have and does it eally matter anyway. The fact is that most of The Volumes recordings are awesome no matter who sang lead and thats all we really care about is it not.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.