purist

I'm a mixture of lazy and time pressed, which i think applies to a fair few collectors, so I want (1) simplicity, and (2) a reason to bother spending what time I have looking through a sales list or advert. Some days on SS there's so many lists of sales to look through I cherry pick some and leave the rest, and some sellers make their sales look more attractive by listing a few tasty morsels under the heading ( dont understand those that dont do this) others use different methods, like Pete Smith uses lower prices and he's known for it. Over time you get to know which names are likely to have stuff that interests you and matches your tastes and wallet. One seller whose lists I always look at is bitch dj and the reason I look is what's written at the top of each sales list - "as usual prices incl UK P+P and paypal fees...any questions PM me or email cookinupsoul@aol.com" (I've supposed over time that this is the female dj Cookie ?) Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is I'm in the camp that says a record listed at £87.67 all inclusive of card charges,paypal, special delivery and anything else is more preferable to reading £80 and then finding I've got to work out the extra charges for cardboard mailer, sticky tape, petrol to take it to the post office, childminder, stopping off a mcDonalds because I've missed my lunch hour from work, and every other daft thing people have said to me over the years. Of course if you go with this sales method of all inclusive you've got to apply a little common sense, if the buyer goes to collect the record because the seller lives locally they dont expect to pay the full whack, same as if its collected from a venue, or if they buy several records you'd expect to negociate some discount. (as a former saleman I know everybody loves a bit of discount. That word has a power, a bit like when your missus says " d'ya fancy an early nite ?" it's not the actual words,or their literal meaning, its the effect they have on you :-) Incidentally, and this is the gospel truth, the last thing I did before logging into SS tonite was to email a record seller in the states, and I worded my offer "$XX in total including postage to England for these 2 records. If acceptable let me have your paypal address". I know what I'd pay for these 2 in a Niter, so why pay more to buy them mail order? btw I agree record condition and bad description is an equally annoying problem. A record described truthfully as "looks rough but plays okay to dj with, odd crackle and pop" or VG if you like that term better, is only worth at the very most 50% of the value of a very clean "near minter" ( excellent, shiny vinyl, clean label, no writing, no visible scratches, plays without any sign of hiss, etc) For folk who disagree with this percentage, try selling them at a venue. People pull them out of the sleeve and immediately either bid down the marked price or drop it back in the box and walk away. Yes I know folk, especially on ebay, seem to love to pay 95% of book for a scratchy VG minus, but that's because they're not right/deluded. Instead of VG sellers should use PH - to mean these records are only Place Holders until a decent one comes along. If you read that instead of VG would you still bid 95% ? I think not. On the other hand a true new old stock unplayed copy of any one of the rare gems known to be bad wearers or frequent hissers is worth 10-20% over the odds ( this bit is imho, the 50% maximum for vg isn't, it's fact) Oh, one of these days I must put up my favourite record bar story about a record condition/valuation conversation. It was many years ago but it still makes me smile.

Personally I love all the Thelma stuff, but this gets lots of plays just about everywhere, and the flip. Funny isn't it that a lot of the Detroit stuff found back in the early years is played at, and deemed acceptable at, both Oldies events and Rare Soul ones. hmm...

It's been a good while since I played this, either 45 or album, but I seem to remember that the album was a different version (better?) a bit stronger (cant think of a better word to describe it) maybe it's because the album was stereo? I know it sounded much better over a big venue system, and I think it was more than just a few secs longer, but could be wrong What I do remember tho' was deciding that I should keep the album because I liked it more ( and typically the 45 stayed also - please tell me I'm not the only saddo who does this ?)

Not saying it's a mega bucks item, but i was quite taken with the Bobby Williams "Only Got Myself To Blame" on Derby that I saw on ebay last week or the week before. Didn't fetch much money mind. other suggestions - The Jackie Edwards duet e.p. seems to be collectible, not high 3 figures but seen up to 300, which seems to be the cut off point for most euro rarities, all but the odd couple. Major Lance e.p. the only way to own "Think Nothing About It" on a 7" (unless you happen to have the missing Okeh number, anybody ever seen one, cause I dont think it exists) several euro motown releases have northern tracks that are only available on 7" on those actual releases. the currently popular Edwin Starr, for example.

Des, normally I agree with almost everthing you say, but why would you say we should discount acetates and test pressings, surely some fabulous recordings only exist in that format. How many genuine acetates exist of " Suspicion" for instance? Gladys Knight's " Too Late For Love"? Most collectors can spot a dodgy faked up acetate or test press these days, so why exclude the real deal ones from this? What do you reckon a genuine "Suspicion" would fetch in a JM auction?

There was a picture of a series one Golden World , the only one I'm missing, that I saw on a japanese soul collectors web site quite a few years ago. Anybody know the site I'm talking about as I can't find it now ?

Now you've got me thinking, 'cause from memory I'm sure my issue looks a lot like these. Have I made a huge mistake all these years ? Probably. I can't get at my copy easily until later, so I'll check then, but pretty sure now I've looked at these pics that I've been talking from the wrong end. I'd blame the medication, only that would be a poor excuse. are philips demo's vinyl? has anyone got/seen a wdj philips Big Frank ? or come to that a white demo Blue Rock ( it was trying to collect Blue Rock that gave me a styrene phobia, and the record in particular being Johnny Moore Without Your Love, think I bought about 4 different copies that all looked okay, and all hissed like a snake. I know its only a cheapie, but that shouldn't come in to it. I think it took me 3 attempts to get a Deletts that was a half decent player - and every one I got had a ring drawn around the title in (red?) felt pen. all were wdj's btw

I've heard this before from a friend that I trust, this over labelling from Blue Rock to Philips, but my doubt came from the fact that Philips copies are on vinyl, Blue Rock pressings are styrene. Does anyone out there own a Philips label copy on styrene ? Because I buy my records to play regularly, and on all manner of equipment over the last 25 years I'm glad to report that my Philips copy still plays perfectly. Would that be the case if I'd bought a Blue Rock copy? ( having tried to collect the B. Rock label years ago I gave up as the sound deteriorated so quickly on some of my faves, but strangely some have lasted well, were we blaming the material when it was down to individual faults at other stages of production, mastering/chemical construction/ etc ?)

It will take me some time to find it, but I kept the original oVo "mandate"(or definition, if you prefer) as written on my kitchen table what ever year it was? What some know is that it was actually drawn up after some *# I may still have the first flyer that the oVo logo was used on ( and that's what it was all about, to have a logo that those of us who cared about it could recognise, and that those who didn't care, it wouldn't have mattered to - we never set out to tell anybody else how to live their lives, or run their venues, we just wanted to say this is how we do it) It wasn't a stick to beat anybody with, it was more meant to be a secret club that those of us who were in the know knew about it ,like freemasons use their secret handshake. not OVO, or OvO, it was originally oVo, damn, now the secret's out ! * I use the term dj loosely in this instance

Yes.

Is the only UK issue the Kent one, done in the 80's? from memory it had a yellow label, and had two other tracks, the happy r'n'b Huey song and a Mary Love track ( maybe "Bitter"?) or was it released on some other label ? never see them about, wonder how many would have been pressed/sold ? Ady ?

Wow that alt version sounds so different and so much better. What is the cd called, and is it available, anybody know ? btw didn't some american guy turn up at the B'ham record fair a few years back with a handfull of mint unplayed copies, and were they £60 each, but you could only buy one per person? or am i getting mixed up with another tune? John Weston knows, John are you there ?

You sure about them dates Jack ? I thought you started it before Wigan closed down? Didn't we used to arrange lifts for the weekend while Wigan was still going, and I thought we did the whole moaning conversation about the umpteenth last nite rip off in the Wheatsheaf? I know we were still doing the lift arranging in the Stafford era, as well as Oddfellows, Warrington, etc. and the buses you ran to several other further flung venues. When we were at the previous USOS at the Royal Hotel, standing outside having a cool off I couldn't help but look up the road in the direction of the Wheatsheaf. So many happy memories, and a few photos somewhere. Good job there's no photos of those burglars who went to a certain lads flat in order to make sure the nite went ahead one thursday. You must remember, when the lanky plonker had locked the disco gear in his flat ? cheers john pugh

The key point here is condition, and how much below or above the regular venue box price of a decent player & looker should a vg or totally mint record vary. it seems to me that most 45's ( maybe 3/4 of them ?) offered as recent finds stateside are vg at best, yet people ask, and indeed get a stupidly high price. I think it's a kind of wishful thinking that sets in especially when in front of a screen, and faced with the ticking clock of an auction. These overly high prices then get transfered to the sales on source, as folk think " well if somebody paid £100 for a rough vg then mine is worth £150" I also agree that if a collector needs to thin the herd then they are likely to ask up to 50% above the sort of prices you yourself would charge Pete, I know 50% above wouldn't get me to take stuff out of my collection in most cases, but then I'm a collector not a seller

Almost at the end, two gem like lines, "It never ends.... there is no end to collecting" "They stop collecting when they die" yep, that's about the size of it, at least it is for me. thanks for the link

might be talking out of my rear end Joan, but they worked with Lorraine Chandler, and it was said years ago that it was her input that they wanted to acknowledge. The reason was supposed to be that she had contracts that prevented her name being used by another label. As I say it's probably BS, but that's the legend I remember. john ( I never know whether it's worth bringing out these old stories, many of which were at best only partly based in truth, with a lot of Niter Record Bar guesses added imho? the net has expanded our true knowledge, but if we don't note the early ideas they will be lost forever, but would that be a bad thing ? )

Dave, my copy came from Tim, did yours have "George Washington" written in the credits as the artist (instead of Gino Washington) because this one does? ( I understand that Tim might have had more than one over the years, just thought you might remember your old one)

The utterly gorgeous Hep'Me 114 - Ray J & Norma Jean "This Is Our Song Of Love" (parts 1 & 2) - sounds fantastic played loud at an appropriate venue ! one of my fave crossover records ever, can you tell :-) john

I really like their " City Life ", sounds great played loud in a venue. Not to be confused with Buddy Holly frontman Jerry Naylor's popular classic "City Lights". if you dont know it dont go expecting the next great sound, just a good little track, £20 not £200 might be a clue. (p.s. I've always wondered if they were the same group?) btw having spent my life totally avoiding pop music, and every other form of music that wasn't soul, n/s, etc. I had no idea that all these other versions existed, and I'd like to say thanks, for nothing, for wasting my life listening to tracy ullman, kylie,etc. my wife looking over my shoulder while I was typing this, reckons one time big time, ex scottish now americanised, singer Sheena Easton covered a soul classic, anybody else remember what it was?

You are of course correct in saying that whether you own the Young Folk 45 or not, you still must also own the Miss M. 45 because of its double sider credentials. This was one of those classic " let's cover up the flipside several years after the top side was a popular known tune". Neither costs as much as a round of drinks, so treat yourself to both and join the northern label completists union from my less than reliable memory it was covered as Christine Cooper (?) and survived as a cover up for longer than you'd imagine. I write old cover up names on the sleeve so if anyone is deperate I can go looking. Cant be more accurate than say sometime between 78 and 85 (just because I remember a club that ran in that time frame where it was a regular play)

Pretty sure quite a few assorted black country types & wheatsheaf regulars are in these photos. In the top right hand photo I think the lad in the red sweatshirt is Steve Powell, and the lady with her back to the camera is his wife? Oddfellows always had a good turnout from our area. Also of course the irrepressible, exuberant, lovely human being known to one and all as Pickle (R.i.p.) appears in the same photo. I always thought of it as a Niter that didn't take itself too seriously, even though they had some of the best dj's around at the time, which made it special in its own way. I love getting the old videos out and watching them, being transported back to a happier, more free and easy time. Like wise when I'm out somewhere whenever I hear a tune that I think of as an Oddfellows tune....

There's a few photos of me in my youth with these patches/badges being used to cover where I'd put holes in the knees of various trousers when coming off scooters. I thought that's what they were for, patching clothing in a make do and mend type of way. I never got into the whole collecting them thing and usually gave them away. The only thing I liked was the car stickers, and a while back I saw a van at a venue that was covered in what looked like original car stickers. One badge I did find when clearing out some stuff at my moms was a Keighley ( have I spelt that right, it doesn't look right?) think it must be mid 70's? would anybody think that has a value?