Tlscapital

Thanks. For some reason since this morning I can't open any Discogs pages. It's like their server is down... Apparently not. I will try it back later.

Flip side attributed to LaBrenda Ben & the Vandellas as well ?

Does the LaBrenda Ben on Motown really exist ? That scan is the only one found on the net and it looks rather suspicious IMHO. The Gordy edition is established to be around September or October 1962. Still the scan is odd to me. The Motown in regard of the catalogue attributed number Motown 1033 (even if cancelled if ever) in regard of the previous catalogue number Motown 1032 dating from July and following Motown 1034 dating from November 1962. Yet LaBrenda Ben Motown 1033 is supposedly from December 1962. Even if those dates (45Cat.com source) don't correlate so well, they all tend to post date the Gordy release which makes no sense. Then the label typo and colors don't fit. The Motown 'camel walk' dating from December 1962 credit LaBrenda Ben & the Vandellas. But Martha & the Vandellas first 45 only came out on Gordy 7011, some two release numbers after LaBrenda Ben 7009 and supposedly dates from September 1962.

More to go my way. Did I say the guy was megalomaniac ? Reading that I thought this fact can't be right nor true. Not a specialist on such matter the answer was only few clicks away and here we are; https://moogfoundation.org/moog-a-history-in-recordings-by-thom-holmes-part-two/

Yes that got. And yes again, I agree with you that there should always be room for doubt. I even left some of that in my previous sentencing 😜 Some or a little at least 😉 But since he left out all the Drew and Sidra credentials on the Stemmons Express record, this can only be intentional in my book. And so even if he was given those backing track reels by someone with authority over hem, it's once again all about him, himself and he.

Thanks for posting this article. It kinds of put a light on the character this Sam Colin guy was. Suing John Lennon (or anybody else for that matter ) because a song's title bared the word 'karma' !? Is that guy anything else but a megalomaniac paranoid crook nut ? Both backing tracks 'such misery' and 'if this is love' where stolen (or maybe borrowed but...) from the Sidra/Drew vaults to release these none the less fantastic new compositions by this Houston group on the Karma Houston based label without credentials to the originators. Quote; he says he has been successful because he surrounded himself with "businessmen, not frustrated musicians" (nice to say BTW...). Now, get his 'punch line' on this; "easier to teach music to a businessman than to teach business to a music man"... This clearly is bull Sh*t ! Which one was he then ? Do I hear a business man trying to flip flop the reader's mind while pretending doing it for the music ? He was just a stealer that even manage to sell it to Wand records to re-release the best record from his Karma label trying to cash on music he stole in the first place. Hear me; I always loved the Stemmons Express but never could get my head around how this backing track ended up there ! How could it have been in done a 'nice' way as in 'fair'. Finishing the article with his quote "And Karma belongs to me". T H E R E ' S N O T H I N G E L S E T O S A Y

Yes as shown below. Indeed the second 'lease on life' of the 2 last releases on Sidra post dates the lasts label productions. This begs the question; was the use of the Precisions backing tracks almost a year later given or stolen ? This Sam (officially he signs as Gerald apparently) Coplin character is not so clear or necessary benefiting the benefit of the doubt IMO. Not crediting the musical productions for his Karma release and re-release on Wand (even getting rid of Jay Lewis in the composition credit) shows. Barbara Mercer Sidra 9012 (Oct. 1967) Timmy Willis Sidra 9013 (Nov. 1967) Last release on Sidra then dismissal of the label before these got re-issued Barbara Mercer Capitol 2059 (Nov. 1967) Timmy Willis Veep 1279 (Dec. 1967)

Oops, my-my that's well spotted !!! Such poor muffled down mastering job they did on this Capitol issue in comparison with the Sidra release, I actually never bothered to look at it closer. Good you did. So that could explain how they letted "the wolf in sheep clothing" into the Sidra/Drew vaults and allow him to steal/borrow those 1966 backing tracks and "lend" them for the Stemmons Express over-dub recording... Or were they "given to him" on fair terms not even to have their publishing rights acknowledged after promesses of other future deals with major companies just before the dismissal of the Sidra company short after November 1967 ?

Remember a quote on the phone from Roger Banks ('R'n'B' on here 😉 ) some 15 years ago or so over a BSC picture cover of Betty Lloyd. He was kinda bluffing leading anyone to hope that it would be for her 'I'm catching on' but I understood that it was for another release of hers. Now I know about her second BSC single 'six days til Christmas' cute 1969 novelty single, could this release have had a picture sleeve ? This I thought to be possible as Gino Washington had a picture sleeve for his 'it's winter' 45 on Atac (same pressing plant) from 1971 though...

It's fabulous !

File a complaint to both Discogs and Paypal; the seller must provide the new entry for his alternate press that is a bootleg that which Discogs does not accept in the first place. Then with Paypal as well for an having received an item that is not as described with the seller refusal to refund with exchanged messages attesting all of that. Get your money back and send that crook bastard to hell !

Yes, in Jamaica they use to (at least) call them lacquers, acetates, one offs or more commonly 'dub plates'. And by some courageous DJ's they were played with resin styluses that were to be swapped off quickly due to their soft constituency. The resin styluses were evidently less damaging to the groove even though they would leave their 'grease' into the groove of the record after each play that would induce a swipe clean afterward as well. Although it sounded amazing, that didn't last... If those DJ's lacquers records survived through the "rough" DJ handling, carrying and natural drying-out, they are still considered by many as true "collectors" items. With diamond or steel styluses the groove of those "acetates" will wear much faster. Most find their ways through the bins after they had their 'slice' of life. Nowadays some propose carvers that ar just carved "cut-ins" on plastic vinyl one-offsl that might have longer life span but logically have a less good mastering process to none actually.

Caution with those Jamaican 12". The labels pressed continuously they gear and like said here before, many of those USA/UK 12" showing 1975 tracks where actually pressed later. Giving the original pressing date of the first release on 7" but not the factual for the release date of the said 12". That "fact" of Jamaican 12" being old is a classic but only "rumors". The DJ's commonly used 10" lacquers to DJ out and 'toast/talk' over unique mixes made by the producers for that matter. And 12" lacquers as well. But they were only that. Not the same thing in my understanding of it all.

Yes, the Yellow as I said is the first local release and then it got picked up by IRDA for national release which seemingly didn't get press beyond the promotional stage and with what seems now to be issued twice with different mixes/takes.

Scans maybe ? Sorry the photos of the text is rather hard to read.

The Impressions 'love me' alternate take (promotional) release for example is also anther pressing plant and just by the label can be tell appart. Not only for the 'star' - plug in - side and the timing at 3:00 instead of 2:55 for the other pressing plants and the 'regular' Leroy Hutson lead take. Good luck with your quest finding somebody who might give you more insight on that matter for your Sky's the limit. Neve never tried but what about contacting some people at Numero Group maybe...

Well not to say that it was a common practice, but yes, there's some records both on major labels or on smaller independent labels that have such take/mix variations that one can only tell appart by the eye via the 'run-out' matrix. It's more common where different pressing plants are involved for a 'same' record but then the label variations there should tell them appart. A test press or pre-release is either a 'generic' label to be filled in or a blank label. That's not your case is it ?

Don't know the record but from what I can see, there's the 1976 'local' release (yellow stocker) and then there's the 1976 'IRDA' (white promo only maybe that was also re-isued as in 2012 by Numero Group) pick up release for national distribution. That would have had a re-mixed/worked version maybe...

Not to differ; to acknowledge someone else's credit is evidently important. I couldn't agree more. But when Caesar crowned himself 'Emperor' ! Or Trump compliments himself a lot... These are extremes but my point and others I believe lies there. But the OP started on 'historical amnesia'. And a shout about as to have either a point, share one's enthusiasm for a record or to tell a tell tale around it; YES !

Drifting from the OP but interesting subject on it's own; 'the dismissal for the 45 rpm 7" format' by a generation of "new/young" consumers or "old/previous" consumers habits. My parents were both born after World War II and I remember browsing through my mom's teen records, which featured mostly 45's. My dad being American born and raise, he got to listen to his music (better than here in Belgium or Europe for that matter) on the radio... But past and beyond 1970 (me birthday) and onward, I remember them buying, having and listening to LP's only indeed. The fact that this article raise in the consumer's lazy approach to phono playback is so relevant to the then evolving phono gear industry as well. Where the advent of "advanced" mechanism in turntables with more and more complex circuitry and semi or even fully automatic command systems evidently confort the consumer laziness. This fact about the spindle hole size (*like 'Butch' use to say; if it doesn't have a big hole it's no good 😜) being part of the 7" slow down in sales indicates the laziness factor inherent of the then "modern" consumerism. That which we all know or admit (or not...) is even worse today. Hence they're also talking of the 'needle' swap need that was "problematic" to get around by many (even phono gear manufacturer's) from the "obsolete" 'MONO' to the 'STEREO' hegemony transition. But I must admit that we also must take into account the fact that this article underline; the customer's satisfaction fulfillment with a (future foreseen) color printed picture sleeve... Like the LP 10+ songs compiled to please any fan with a hunger of "it all". Then the avail of the 'concept' album and the prime release and promotion of the albums before the singles. Then the dismissal of 45's for cheap starting groups on independent labels. All of that which is why I looked the other way since a teen seeking for the 'old' and unwanted musics and formats.

Your Highness Miss Chandler I bow to your genuine Majesty. As a late teen the 45 'what can I do' was my first ever 45 I had to 'sought after'. To hear it all over again just reminds me how good that tune is. Singer, producer... What can I do when you're gone ? R-I-P

Seventies and eighties British (counting only !!!) record dealers 🥴 Now who was the first seller ever to sell that and that or that record... And I am certain none of those aforementioned will rush in such ego bigotry race.

OK Len, yes, I agree that it could comme across as... But it's not the little bragging if ever that is at stake here I understand. Mind the OP just presenting his bit on this. It's the fact around the who's who "discovered" and "broke" a record if ever that is in wonder... The term MONSTER bugs me some FWIW. Rare record that has it's fans. Commanding big tickets evidently but still I won't call it a "monster". And I don't think there is such a thing as MONSTROUS records on today's scene(S). Or is 'Jeanette' that... 🙀 If it was a proper term maybe in the seventies where a "young" (commercial) Northern scene needed infatuated term to define themselves to rival with other Gods, it's not by today "standards" anymore. Or is it ? Most of the time those MONSTROUS records where MONSTROUS indeed. LOL ! Still there are ways, words and sentencing to be used that could tell the story otherwise without betraying the facts or even the ego. And you're right, there are as many bad reader's out there who will critic what one is saying (or not) by twisting the OP intentions... After what some can feel not bothered anymore to come in peace and comment to be left with post-traumatic syndrome 🤯

Truly nothing clever on my behalf. Just my reader's point of vue. And unlike any company I have no intention nor power actually to change anything in anyone's life and go against my word if ever I did. No twist nor masterplan behind my words. No intention to do else. If I was friend with Sean, I would tell him, as I do with all my friends, what I truly think they're acting, doing and saying wrong IMHO. Just as I expect from those with goodwill towards me. Only I am not friend with Sean. Just a reader who comments the OP on here 😉