Is The ‘Upfront’ Soul Scene Disappearing up It’s Own A*se?

So why 1500 at Oldies v 300 tops at Upfront venues?

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Strong title I know folks and in no way meant in a derogatory manner - I’ll explain…

…I was reading Soul Sam’s article in Manifesto which was basically about this (My sub title) One point Sam made was that he couldn’t ‘Comprehend’ why on the same weekend most folk chose to go to a mainly oldies weekender over a very well known and established ‘Upfront’ all-nighter. He actually said ‘defies comprehension‘, so like many people who attend these upfront nights is very bothered by it.

Putting aside the obvious reasons why lots of venues ‘in general’ are suffering (too many events, weekenders, politics etc) This thread is to ask for your views on why there is such a difference in attendance between the two.

I hear certain things when I’m ‘Out and about’ for example, ref to stuff like ’No compromise’ I‘ve heard folk say - “It puts us off going” - I know a judgement can’t be made just off the back of a few comments so I’d like to know if ‘In general’ there is anything about the ‘Upfront’ side of the soul scene that stops some of you ‘returnees’ or staunch oldies fans from coming along and is there anything that you think could be done to attract more people to the upfront venues.

Is it because there seems to be no happy medium between the two? In your eyes, do the two types of venue go from one extreme to the other? Personally I think more could be done at the huge oldies All-nighters to include more upfront sounds in the main rooms, rather than just an additional small room. Many times I’ve heard real oldies fans crying out for something a bit different. I suppose the promoters of these events have the attitude of ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ which is a real shame (Especially when I hear ‘Philly Dog Around The World’ is played no less than three times!)

Is there a ‘Superiority’ vibe that comes across from ‘Upfront’ soul fans? - As I said, this is purely based on what I’ve heard people say and I am not accusing anyone or any venue of this myself.

Would putting someone like Brian Rae in the line up of an upfront event make it appeal to more people?

I think most people like all types of soul music (In this case oldies and upfront) and whatever ‘Camp’ they may be in would welcome a night where it is evenly split, both complimenting each other.

All this is just me ‘Thinking out loud’ and just to confirm, it’s not a case of - ‘Len get some sleep mush!’ :O) (Copyright Paul Donnelly) - Over to you guys, I‘m keen to hear others opinions.

Remember the 90’s soul scene, The Ritz Manchester etc, oldies fans and upfront fans enjoying ‘Good soul music’ together in the same HUGE hall - Are them days really numbered?…

Yours sincerely,

Len.

Edited September 18, 201113 yr by LEN

Actually Ian it's identical to the issues the northern scenes have, except I don't see so much 'backbiting' as you call it (it sounds unpleasant!!). The only difference is there was never really such a Niter scene as there has been with northern. But most people just want to hear the same old boring stuff, a "crossover / 70s Top 500" if you will. The people wanting to hear something new are in a minority there too. Too many weekenders, second string DJs playing last hour anthems from 2 p.m. onwards everyday. Soul music used to be about hearing something new and exciting, now I fear too many just get blotto as soon as they arrive and spend the weekend singing (badly) to Flowers, Beloyd, and Channel 3. Whilst there are pockets left, much of what was the 70s / xover scene has most definately becoming "Ordinary Joe".

Maybe a topic for a different thread though.....

Edited October 6, 201113 yr by Steve G

dont get me wrong , and this is surely not a go at anyone participating in this or similar threads...but sometimes (and right now is such a "sometimes" moment) I wonder what all this negativity is all about. Just imagine a young one, new soulie reading all these threads and getting his first impressions of the important aspect of nightlife scenery of Rare or Northern Soul from threads like this...he sure wouldnt fancy going anymore would he ?

Think we should all start to look at it a bit more positive again and not try to get all too academic about it...dont know abou you lot but I have jolly good time each time I go out. Long may it continue.

I used to attend the Mecca regularly in the 70's .The Northern Soul scene is now reminiscent of the Motown scene in the 70’s which I strayed from to attend the then upfront northern soul scene ie Blackpool Mecca, Wigan etc. At the Motown events we heard the same tunes night after night until it got very boring. The Northern Scene was like a breath of fresh air. Exciting new sounds on each visit.

My point is that in those days the main focus apart from a social gathering was to hear new tunes. Today my hunger to hear new quality soul sounds from Gospel to Modern is still the same as it was all those years ago and i trawl the net to find new stuff which i can buy and listen too.!

These days because of personal reasons i cant get out as much so have to choose carefully where i go. But in the last year or so i have enjoyed venues such as Thorne, Lowton and Silks.

Andy L

dont get me wrong , and this is surely not a go at anyone participating in this or similar threads...but sometimes (and right now is such a "sometimes" moment) I wonder what all this negativity is all about. Just imagine a young one, new soulie reading all these threads and getting his first impressions of the important aspect of nightlife scenery of Rare or Northern Soul from threads like this...he sure wouldnt fancy going anymore would he ?

Think we should all start to look at it a bit more positive again and not try to get all too academic about it...dont know abou you lot but I have jolly good time each time I go out. Long may it continue.

i agree mark...ive often said its strange how a scene that is so positive and friendly when you're out can be so negative and unfriendly when on line.....

dean

dont get me wrong , and this is surely not a go at anyone participating in this or similar threads...but sometimes (and right now is such a "sometimes" moment) I wonder what all this negativity is all about. Just imagine a young one, new soulie reading all these threads and getting his first impressions of the important aspect of nightlife scenery of Rare or Northern Soul from threads like this...he sure wouldnt fancy going anymore would he ?

Think we should all start to look at it a bit more positive again and not try to get all too academic about it...dont know abou you lot but I have jolly good time each time I go out. Long may it continue.

Hi Marc,

Yes that is a good point, lots of comments on many threads do paint a dismal picture whereas in reality we all have a great time, I think some just want to keep it that way so inevitably focus on the negatives, as to discuss them may just sort them out (Or not!)

This thread is about why the difference in attendance, it's not Oldies is better than Upfront or anything like that. Fact is, the upfront scene is shrinking a bit and it's a shame. Maybe its because there are less 'Inbetweeny' soul nights where some of the new sounds are first heard which then filter through.

But yes, think positive, think positive!

All the best,

Len.

i agree mark...ive often said its strange how a scene that is so positive and friendly when you're out can be so negative and unfriendly when on line.....

dean

I'll second that.

Hi Marc,

Yes that is a good point, lots of comments on many threads do paint a dismal picture whereas in reality we all have a great time, I think some just want to keep it that way so inevitably focus on the negatives, as to discuss them may just sort them out (Or not!)

This thread is about why the difference in attendance, it's not Oldies is better than Upfront or anything like that. Fact is, the upfront scene is shrinking a bit and it's a shame. Maybe its because there are less 'Inbetweeny' soul nights where some of the new sounds are first heard which then filter through.

But yes, think positive, think positive!

All the best,

Len.

Do you mean places playing Some you know, Some you don't, Some forgotten Oldies Some Classics, on OVO ?????

Say, a bit like HEYWOOD, perhaps.

Tony

Do you mean places playing Some you know, Some you don't, Some forgotten Oldies Some Classics, on OVO ?????

Say, a bit like HEYWOOD, perhaps.

Tony

or EBUC,they are there if you can be arsed to look

Edited October 6, 201113 yr by soulsalmon

Yeh, of course there are some but the ratio of oldies nights far out ways them nowadays, because of the demand I suppose.

All the best,

Len.

and there we are Len, right back to the start of the thread LOL

and there we are Len, right back to the start of the thread LOL

lol,

Yes mate, I think the thread's now run it's cause.

Time to stop analysing, best to get on and 'Do'!

Over 'n' Out,

Len.

lol,

Yes mate, I think the thread's now run it's cause.

Time to stop analysing, best to get on and 'Do'!

Over 'n' Out,

Len.

You,d better be a good boy next saturday len........oh! and do try and keep up!!

Edited October 6, 201113 yr by gordon russell

You,d better be a good boy next saturday len........oh! and do try and keep up!!

I'll try my best!

Len.

lol,

Yes mate, I think the thread's now run it's cause.

Time to stop analysing, best to get on and 'Do'!

Over 'n' Out,

Len.

Phhhew.....is that really it now mate my first post so that should do it

Edited October 7, 201113 yr by gogopro

Im confused too. Richard played other side at Wigan I'd guess from 77/78 on. Must admit don't recall him playing "Sweets" side but he may have done. As Wigan shut in '81 anything later is after him.

ROD

Hi,

Just to set the record straight. I bought Sandi Golden off Barrie Waddington (Brad may have been in cahoots with Barrie). I played it covered up in the 80s for 5-6 years and sold it to Rob in 90/91. I believe Rob subsequently sold the same copy to Richard Searling. I have never come across any reference to it having surfaced previous to the Barrie copy.

All best

Ion

Hi Ion,

Until you posted I was pretty sure Richard had it and played it very infrequently in later stages of Wigan.

I guess I could have heard you play it but if it were covered up why is it on my wants list from early 80's? I've still got that here and Sandy is in the main body of the list but me and Dave have added an update which includes Chuck Cockerham amongst others which I didn't know until I found a copy in '89 and sold to Richard so update was done around that time. The main list [less additions] kinda cuts off after Dave and I stopped dj-ing so Limelights,Monique,Phonetics,Young Brothers are there which dates it to around '83. If you had it for 5-6 years and sold it in '90 it's a bit of a mystery why it's on the list.

I know Barrie and Brad. Did one of them tell me I wonder?

I've not heard Richard dj since he was on at Stafford apart from a few times at Parkers in late 80's and a new-fangled R&B night in the 90's.Parkers stopped around time you sold it Rob I think.

So Im still confused.

ROD

Hi,

Just to set the record straight. I bought Sandi Golden off Barrie Waddington (Brad may have been in cahoots with Barrie). I played it covered up in the 80s for 5-6 years and sold it to Rob in 90/91. I believe Rob subsequently sold the same copy to Richard Searling. I have never come across any reference to it having surfaced previous to the Barrie copy.

All best

Ion

I have a cd copy of a tape you did in I think 1985 Ion with Sandy Golden on it.

I think you are right with the years Rob sold it to Richard. I can double check as the records were at Nick Stevenson's before they went and sure he said it was '91. Think there was 3 records in the deal in total.

Hi Ion,

Until you posted I was pretty sure Richard had it and played it very infrequently in later stages of Wigan.

I guess I could have heard you play it but if it were covered up why is it on my wants list from early 80's? I've still got that here and Sandy is in the main body of the list but me and Dave have added an update which includes Chuck Cockerham amongst others which I didn't know until I found a copy in '89 and sold to Richard so update was done around that time. The main list [less additions] kinda cuts off after Dave and I stopped dj-ing so Limelights,Monique,Phonetics,Young Brothers are there which dates it to around '83. If you had it for 5-6 years and sold it in '90 it's a bit of a mystery why it's on the list.

I know Barrie and Brad. Did one of them tell me I wonder?

I've not heard Richard dj since he was on at Stafford apart from a few times at Parkers in late 80's and a new-fangled R&B night in the 90's.Parkers stopped around time you sold it Rob I think.

So Im still confused.

ROD

Hi Rod,

Good to hear from you.

You are probably right and may well have heard about it from Brad/Barrie prior to it being spun. I seem to recollect Barrie had owned the record for quite a time before he sold it to me. If I remember correctly, when he put it on a tape for me he said he had found it 'at the bottom of a wardrobe'.

Brad and Barrie were turning up a great deal of records back then. I had first copies of King George - I Need You - Audio Arts, Ricky Lewis - Mercury, Barry White - Faro in the same batch and Guy also regularly got some great stuff from them. It was great to see them both at Brad's 60th recently - top lads and very unassuming!

All best

Ion