Are the magnificents- there can be a better way -mam and the smith brothers the same group?i know they are different takes,but I am positive it is the same lead vocalist on both recordings.

Hi Lorraine,firstly may I say what an honour it is to be in touch with one of the all time greats of soul music.when I initially started this thread I also mentioned that I thought they were slightly different takes.Jacks percussion work is more prevalent on the magnificents,what do you think?

I don't know why you keep saying they are different recordings. They're the same recording.

Ok boba what I am saying is the mam track has more of a tambourin in it than the soul dimension release

Bob, you need to take a PROPER to the Smith Brothers - it is a DIFFERENT take from the very first note. Smith Brothers has the baritone sax throughout for starters and so many other differences I can't be arsed to list!

Edited December 11, 201212 yr by Soulfood33

it is a DIFFERENT take from the very first note. Smith Brothers has the baritone sax throughout for starters and so many other differences I can't be arsed to list!

But did Jack Ashford just take the original 8 / 16 / 32 track master-tape & just 'add bits' (the sax) and then re-balance the prominence of what was on the other tracks on the tape to end up with the revised version.

Edited December 11, 201212 yr by Roburt

it doesn't sound like a different take at all. Just a different mix. The vocal take is definitely identical. The baritone sax hits at exactly the same spot at the start of both versions. It's just mixed louder in one. I can line both of the recordings up in a multitrack editor if you want to compare.

whats the information in the runout on the magnificents mam 45,,,,,,delta stamp etc someone actually told me this was a bootleg but ive never owned it or had a good look at one to find out

Hi Dave

Just checked the MAM copy and it has a Monarch Stamp and 'az' scratched on both sides

'There can be' also has '802-A-RE-2' scratched in the run out groove,and a 'delta' #99892

whilst 'Don't take' has simply '802-B' and a 'delta' #99891X although the 1 has been over-scratched from a 2!

Don't have the table to hand but i guess this must be '73/'74 ish? Sure someone will confirm?

Hope this helps? Certinaly interesting stuff that has been discussed on here a few times over the years?

Cheers

Steve

The smith brothers was a cleethorpes discovery it was covered up as the magnificents i know because johnny manship cut me an acetate to help plug the song it had magnificents written on it cant be coincidence.

Hi Dave

Just checked the MAM copy and it has a Monarch Stamp and 'az' scratched on both sides

'There can be' also has '802-A-RE-2' scratched in the run out groove,and a 'delta' #99892

whilst 'Don't take' has simply '802-B' and a 'delta' #99891X although the 1 has been over-scratched from a 2!

Don't have the table to hand but i guess this must be '73/'74 ish? Sure someone will confirm?

Hope this helps? Certinaly interesting stuff that has been discussed on here a few times over the years?

Cheers

Steve

June ish 1976.

June ish 1976.

that is the date based on the delta numbers?

that is the date based on the delta numbers?

99825 is June 1976 according to the monarch chart I have here. The chart was posted on here some time back the chart, goes up to 1978.

99825 is June 1976 according to the monarch chart I have here. The chart was posted on here some time back the chart, goes up to 1978.

thanks a lot

June ish 1976.

Do we know when the Smith Brothers was or has that been stated already?

soul harmony singles has the soul dimension record listed as '74 and the shield record listed as 3/76

Do we know when the Smith Brothers was or has that been stated already?

Don't think it's been mentioned, do we know what is in the run out?

It asys 1974

Don't think it's been mentioned, do we know what is in the run out?

Sorry to revive an old thread but I came across this in my itunes and played it - then I played "Payback's a drag" - what a great tune! Glad mine was a Smith brothers copy!

Jack Ashford pressed up at least 500 copies of The Magnificents.

Ian Dewhirst was in LA from August to December 1976 and sent me a handful, between 2 and 4 as I recall.

In 1976 I phoned Jack Ashford and asked if he could supply 500?. He expained he had not paid Monarch for the run and they were

still held by the plant, but if I sent him the money he would get them and ship to me.

I never did the deal, cannot remember why.

A

Hi Dave

Just checked the MAM copy and it has a Monarch Stamp and 'az' scratched on both sides

'There can be' also has '802-A-RE-2' scratched in the run out groove,and a 'delta' #99892

whilst 'Don't take' has simply '802-B' and a 'delta' #99891X although the 1 has been over-scratched from a 2!

Don't have the table to hand but i guess this must be '73/'74 ish? Sure someone will confirm?

Hope this helps? Certinaly interesting stuff that has been discussed on here a few times over the years?

Cheers

Steve

thanks steve ..it does. think maybe the reason ronnie thought it may be counterfeit was the fact it had a late delta number...the train of thought being all 60`s records have a 5,6,7 or 8 delta mark with the 70`s boots being 9 or 10. and probably never thought that 70`s originals have the later delta numbers

hi all,i have just uploaded my copy of the smith brothers-there can be a better way into refosoul and youtube,and then i was searching around on here for a topic on the song,its interesting to see that the magnificents on mam released the tune,and upon playing both side by side,they are defo the same song without doubt,and if delta numbers mean anything,then the smith bros is defo the first release!

https://youtu.be/1gV2Hy9sNaA

Have been doing a little research and the connection with MAM and found these the interesting thing is that MAM also released Gilbert with the same Cat number. Also the Miko (Jack Ashfords daughter) connection is interesting too