I remember having a discussion one night with Mark Houghton. he's a big fan of the new stuff, where i am more a fan of 60s, but do enjoy the occasional 'modern' track.

We were discussing the merits of having a modern oldies night. Songs that were new when played on the scene (Or reasonably new anyway), but are now up to 20 years old.

Say somebody included stuff like this in a spot:

Prince Phillip Mitchell - Happy

Larry Houston - Lets spend some time together

Marlena Shaw - I just want this feeling to last

Glenda Mcloed - No stranger to love

J Blackfoot - Where is love

Walter Jackson - Touching in the dark

Luther Vandross - I'll let you slide

Windjammer - Tossin' and turnin'

Pages - Heartaches and pain

Harold Melvin - Prayin

Does anyone think there could be whole different area of 'oldies' not being played because they were once 'modern'? I'm pretty sure I'd be up dancing to all of these.

I remember having a discussion one night with Mark Houghton. he's a big fan of the new stuff, where i am more a fan of 60s, but do enjoy the occasional 'modern' track.

We were discussing the merits of having a modern oldies night. Songs that were new when played on the scene (Or reasonably new anyway), but are now up to 20 years old.

Say somebody included stuff like this in a spot:

Prince Phillip Mitchell - Happy

Larry Houston - Lets spend some time together

Marlena Shaw - I just want this feeling to last

Glenda Mcloed - No stranger to love

J Blackfoot - Where is love

Walter Jackson - Touching in the dark

Luther Vandross - I'll let you slide

Windjammer - Tossin' and turnin'

Pages - Heartaches and pain

Harold Melvin - Prayin

Does anyone think there could be whole different area of 'oldies' not being played because they were once 'modern'? I'm pretty sure I'd be up dancing to all of these.

Best get yourself to Smokin Tees at Stroud Rugby Club Friday week (October 6th) then Mikey - that sort of stuff is likely to get played along with more recent stuff and, as the night goes on and the beers sinks in, plenty Northern oldies as well. In fact, whatever goes!

DJ's Andy Edwards, Meg, and some bloke called Hippo guesting

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by Jerry Hipkiss

I remember having a discussion one night with Mark Houghton. he's a big fan of the new stuff, where i am more a fan of 60s, but do enjoy the occasional 'modern' track.

We were discussing the merits of having a modern oldies night. Songs that were new when played on the scene (Or reasonably new anyway), but are now up to 20 years old.

Say somebody included stuff like this in a spot:

Prince Phillip Mitchell - Happy

Larry Houston - Lets spend some time together

Marlena Shaw - I just want this feeling to last

Glenda Mcloed - No stranger to love

J Blackfoot - Where is love

Walter Jackson - Touching in the dark

Luther Vandross - I'll let you slide

Windjammer - Tossin' and turnin'

Pages - Heartaches and pain

Harold Melvin - Prayin

Does anyone think there could be whole different area of 'oldies' not being played because they were once 'modern'? I'm pretty sure I'd be up dancing to all of these.

I Think as I have said before .the term "modern" as we use it ,has more to do with the production of the the tunes and not just the age,from the middle 70s onwards tunes to me have an over produced perfect sound where as the late 50s to middle 70s had a more raw real sound.but when I go to a venue I expect to hear many of the the tunes in your list,and there is no doubt some of em fill the floor , I like to hear a cross section of tunes from oldies to modern and R&B,my personal preferencies are oldies and R&B,to me anything produced after the early 70s will always be modern,sounds daft I know,how can a 20+ year old tune be modern,but it is

only thing that does upset me is when a venue is advertised as " Northern soul " and plays "modern" allnight

Bazza

I'd certainly go to a night like that Mikey. Would work well alongside more 'modern' big plays like Ellipsis or Spade Brigade etc and uptempo '70s and '80s that are now 'oldies' but have never been over-exposed on the scene. There are so many 'modern' rarities wating to be rediscovered. Not sure how successful a night like that would be though - '60s still seems to dominate both the memory and the mods?

Does anyone think there could be whole different area of 'oldies' not being played because they were once 'modern'? I'm pretty sure I'd be up dancing to all of these.

It does exist already and has done for some years now, albeit not really primarily in the UK (unless you count the last hour at Jo Jo's when Keb *used to play what would probably be considered 'modern' oldies although maybe not 'modern' oldies that were played on the NS scene but 'modern oldies' played on the 'Modern scene') And if you understood that, you're doing well. It's (maybe again not as much as it used to be) in Japan and increasingly in Europe (Oslo would be a good example) where 'old modern' records get played pretty heavily to a primarily young crowd of people for whom the phrase 'oldie' 'newie' 'underplayed' etc - even to a degree, Northern Soul - is largely irrelevant against a backdrop of just good, solid music - be it funk, 60's soul, discoey-type 70's, crossover, 'old modern' etc. Finland would be a good example where I was lucky enough to play last month and got away with everything from your Trace of Smoke, Morris, Spade Brigade etc type stuff at one end of the spectrum to out and out funk to disco stuff ala Le Cop, BNB, to your Pages, Broomfield corporate Jam, New World, Rokk etc etc stuff. No northern though as it wouldn't have fitted and it wasn't that sort of club. They did all seem to be enjoying their drink a little bit enthusiastically - seemed to like the music though, which is what matters at the end of the day. Maybe the 'new blood' that folk hope will keep the NS scene going (which in 5-10 years time maybe not be the NS scene as you'd recognise it today but a music 'scene' that plays NS amongst a wider spectrum of good music) will come out of a drunken night out hearing old music that makes them go home and wonder why they've been putting up with nights out listening to digital bleeps played by a trendy, hair gel advertising half-wit with a perma-grin glued to his mush. Having waffled all that, maybe in a way I'm on about something completely different to what you were asking. If I understood what I just rambled I'd know for sure

I've got a , weekender booking penciled in , for next year playing this stuff at a famous Northern Seaside town !

ps Very good points from Jbrew , on this style of oldies( and the global scene) !! Power to the Wah wah and disco drum effects man

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by Simon M

I remember having a discussion one night with Mark Houghton. he's a big fan of the new stuff, where i am more a fan of 60s, but do enjoy the occasional 'modern' track.

We were discussing the merits of having a modern oldies night. Songs that were new when played on the scene (Or reasonably new anyway), but are now up to 20 years old.

Say somebody included stuff like this in a spot:

Prince Phillip Mitchell - Happy

Larry Houston - Lets spend some time together

Marlena Shaw - I just want this feeling to last

Glenda Mcloed - No stranger to love

J Blackfoot - Where is love

Walter Jackson - Touching in the dark

Luther Vandross - I'll let you slide

Windjammer - Tossin' and turnin'

Pages - Heartaches and pain

Harold Melvin - Prayin

Does anyone think there could be whole different area of 'oldies' not being played because they were once 'modern'? I'm pretty sure I'd be up dancing to all of these.

Have to say that, although almost all of these are really great records, they're so overplayed that almost all figure in my top 10% of 'Records I Could Quite Happily Go To My Grave Without Ever Hearing Again".

There are plenty of MOs that I would like to hear played out again, and that never are, but I definitely don't think any 'Modern Oldies' night that used these as its core playlist would get my custom, somehow...

TONE

Have to say that, although almost all of these are really great records, they're so overplayed that almost all figure in my top 10% of 'Records I Could Quite Happily Go To My Grave Without Ever Hearing Again".

There are plenty of MOs that I would like to hear played out again, and that never are, but I definitely don't think any 'Modern Oldies' night that used these as its core playlist would get my custom, somehow...

TONE

You are probably right Tone. I was just trying to think what might have been played at The Oddfellows and the like.

I would have thought there are 1000s of forgotten tunes from that era, that could just be waiting to be played again, but wont be because they dont sound 60s. Which I think is a crying shame. Guys who paid a lot more attention to the new stuff could come up with a list I'm sure. (Dave T, Robin??? Go on, you know you want to).

Half that list, Glenda, Marlena, J Blackfoot, Luther and Windjammer. I cant say I have heard these out in the last 15 years. The others are absolutley over played. (But isnt that the job of an oldie? he he

And like Stuart says, played alongside up to date modern, some of these would still stand the test.

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by in town Mikey

Have to say that, although almost all of these are really great records, they're so overplayed that almost all figure in my top 10% of 'Records I Could Quite Happily Go To My Grave Without Ever Hearing Again".

There are plenty of MOs that I would like to hear played out again, and that never are, but I definitely don't think any 'Modern Oldies' night that used these as its core playlist would get my custom, somehow...

TONE

How about the tunes Jbrew and Saint mention ?

It does exist already and has done for some years now, albeit not really primarily in the UK (unless you count the last hour at Jo Jo's when Keb *used to play what would probably be considered 'modern' oldies although maybe not 'modern' oldies that were played on the NS scene but 'modern oldies' played on the 'Modern scene') And if you understood that, you're doing well. It's (maybe again not as much as it used to be) in Japan and increasingly in Europe (Oslo would be a good example) where 'old modern' records get played pretty heavily to a primarily young crowd of people for whom the phrase 'oldie' 'newie' 'underplayed' etc - even to a degree, Northern Soul - is largely irrelevant against a backdrop of just good, solid music - be it funk, 60's soul, discoey-type 70's, crossover, 'old modern' etc. Finland would be a good example where I was lucky enough to play last month and got away with everything from your Trace of Smoke, Morris, Spade Brigade etc type stuff at one end of the spectrum to out and out funk to disco stuff ala Le Cop, BNB, to your Pages, Broomfield corporate Jam, New World, Rokk etc etc stuff. No northern though as it wouldn't have fitted and it wasn't that sort of club. They did all seem to be enjoying their drink a little bit enthusiastically - seemed to like the music though, which is what matters at the end of the day. Maybe the 'new blood' that folk hope will keep the NS scene going (which in 5-10 years time maybe not be the NS scene as you'd recognise it today but a music 'scene' that plays NS amongst a wider spectrum of good music) will come out of a drunken night out hearing old music that makes them go home and wonder why they've been putting up with nights out listening to digital bleeps played by a trendy, hair gel advertising half-wit with a perma-grin glued to his mush. Having waffled all that, maybe in a way I'm on about something completely different to what you were asking. If I understood what I just rambled I'd know for sure

Yes. Helsinki seems to be a goodplace for 'good music'. I was in a pub before I was DJing in a club there last weekend and they had a CD on with a mix of stuff like Bobby Womak "Accross 110th Street" and Motown stuff like Martha + Vandellas, but then there was Quantic Soul Orchestra stuff and James Brown and Latin Breed and Carleen and the Groovers. That's pretty damn good going for back ground music in a pub! And then you go onto the club and there are hundreds of 'kids' dancing to and cheering records like Mellow Madness, Little John, Salvdors, New World, Nicky Newackers, Quantic Soul Orchestra and Rufus Wood you kind of realise just how exciting it is to see a dance floor errupting to records just because they are good, and not because they were big at the casino or is currently being hammered by Soul Sam.

The big problem, and yes it is a BIG problem, with the UK 'soul scene' is that people spend too much time looking back and are plumiting the scene into a retro quagmire of vile staleness. To stop this people have to stop looking back, forget what has happnned and start clearing out the dead wood and get back to basics:

Is this a good venue? Is this record good? Does it sound fresh and exciting or am I jsut playing it because people will know it? Is this music being promoted to the right sort of people in the right sort of way? Am I pandering to the wishes of people who just want to hear a few records that they have at home on CD with "northern soul" written on the label or do I want to be playing fresh exciting energetic good music to a crowd who want to hear somthing exciting and fresh and interesting?

Sorry Mikey, but I totally disagree with any sort of retro concept. I find it vile and repulisive and this sort of talk risks sending the UK scene to extinction, which might not be such a bad thing to be honest, as it might be what's required to make the music rise again out of the ashes in the same way 'scenes' are exploding accross europe and Japan etc...

Just my opinion of course, and in no way am I being critical of any one person and if folk want to hear tunes in a club they have at home with "northern soul" written on it, and chat about the casino etc, if they get enjoyment then great. No offence ment or anything, but to me personally, that's jsut not what it's about, is it?

It does exist already and has done for some years now, albeit not really primarily in the UK (unless you count the last hour at Jo Jo's when Keb *used to play what would probably be considered 'modern' oldies although maybe not 'modern' oldies that were played on the NS scene but 'modern oldies' played on the 'Modern scene') And if you understood that, you're doing well. It's (maybe again not as much as it used to be) in Japan and increasingly in Europe (Oslo would be a good example) where 'old modern' records get played pretty heavily to a primarily young crowd of people for whom the phrase 'oldie' 'newie' 'underplayed' etc - even to a degree, Northern Soul - is largely irrelevant against a backdrop of just good, solid music - be it funk, 60's soul, discoey-type 70's, crossover, 'old modern' etc. Finland would be a good example where I was lucky enough to play last month and got away with everything from your Trace of Smoke, Morris, Spade Brigade etc type stuff at one end of the spectrum to out and out funk to disco stuff ala Le Cop, BNB, to your Pages, Broomfield corporate Jam, New World, Rokk etc etc stuff. No northern though as it wouldn't have fitted and it wasn't that sort of club. They did all seem to be enjoying their drink a little bit enthusiastically - seemed to like the music though, which is what matters at the end of the day. Maybe the 'new blood' that folk hope will keep the NS scene going (which in 5-10 years time maybe not be the NS scene as you'd recognise it today but a music 'scene' that plays NS amongst a wider spectrum of good music) will come out of a drunken night out hearing old music that makes them go home and wonder why they've been putting up with nights out listening to digital bleeps played by a trendy, hair gel advertising half-wit with a perma-grin glued to his mush. Having waffled all that, maybe in a way I'm on about something completely different to what you were asking. If I understood what I just rambled I'd know for sure

nice post jason, how could i possibly even try to follow it

but just to say you can add porto to the list, dj'ed there a couple of weeks ago at the brand new 'pitch' club, they'd spent a fortune renovating an old building with two floors, lovely wooden dance floor and a top sound system, but more importantly the predominantly young crowd were totally into the 'modern' stuff like ellipsis, mellow madness, motherfox, split decision band i.e. the funkier, more 'disco' orientated tunes, which as you say mixes in great with the straight funk, pretty similar to your night in finland tho in that straight (60's) northern wasnt called for or requested, or indeed wouldnt have fitted in at all

But apart from that, I'm up for it Mikey! I love a bit of 70s

Dont forget JTrouble Soul Sam was hammering a lot of these tunes in th 80's when they were first imported . He had a much better Mega outing too !!

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by Simon M

some of my favourite 'modern oldies'....

johnny bristol - love no longer has a hold on me

alfie davison - love is a serious business

skip mahoney - janice/running away from love

keni burke - let somebody love you

curtis - how can i tell her

bobby cutchins - i did it again

tavasco - love is trying to get a hold on me

smoke - now you're gone

lou ragland - since you said you'd be mine

philip mitchell - one on one

jan jones - independent woman

ad infinitum...

personally i likie nights where they play a mixture of modern and sixties - don't like 100% sixties nights much, don't think i've ever been to a 100% seventies/modern night - though i believe there's a regular modern night in sheffield - anyone remember what it's called? they have a website somewhere.....must check out the night/site.

But apart from that, I'm up for it Mikey! I love a bit of 70s

Much of the 60s newies scene of today are reactivated 'forgotten' tunes that maybe didnt work at the time because of more popular 'newies' at that time.

So in that respect its not such a retro thing, as a rediscovery of great 80s tunes that for whatever reason didnt hit it off at that time.

i like it when we disagree James. Everything seems right in the world

How about the tunes Jbrew and Saint mention ?

I think in essence, Simon, there's two different 'scenes' or 'ideologies' (for want of a better word) that have come out of this. The Northern Soul scene with obviously more Northern Soul scene oriented 'old modern' sounds being accepted (generalising but then I'm going from experience) and the - I dunno - just good music across a wide spectrum scene - let's call it the Jugumawas scene for short I've seen Tolbert go down like a lead balloon at a Northern do and then House For Sale fill the floor again. To be honest I can never figure out why blatantly bad or just dull 70's (and modern day modern) records get played at Northern do's when I know there are obviously better 70's/80's records that could be getting hammered instead. Mind you, you could apply that to some of the 60's stuff too.

I think in essence, Simon, there's two different 'scenes' or 'ideologies' (for want of a better word) that have come out of this. The Northern Soul scene with obviously more Northern Soul scene oriented 'old modern' sounds being accepted (generalising but then I'm going from experience) and the - I dunno - just good music across a wide spectrum scene - let's call it the Jugumawas scene for short I've seen Tolbert go down like a lead balloon at a Northern do and then House For Sale fill the floor again. To be honest I can never figure out why blatantly bad or just dull 70's (and modern day modern) records get played at Northern do's when I know there are obviously better 70's/80's records that could be getting hammered instead. Mind you, you could apply that to some of the 60's stuff too.

Very true Jbrew ..The UK scene has had a divide for decades ( Mecca v Wigan etc) but the Global scenes you mention do seem to use the more Funky and Modern tunes to good affect to younger crowds .with no real divide .

Its really is refreshing to communicate with people on these scenes

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by Simon M

Very true Jbrew ..The UK scene has had a divide for decades ( Mecca v Wigan etc) but the Global scenes you mention do seem to use the more Funky and Modern tunes to good affect to younger crowds .with no real divide .

It's interesting to note that against the backdrop of the current thread regarding falling record prices, most of the wants lists I get (and a lot of wants from Europe/japan) are for the funkier 70's 'modern' stuff (sometimes it's like looking at a listing of my play box ) and certainly (and I've discussed this with people before) this sort of stuff seems to be holding its (or be increasing in) value. Mind you funk did a similar thing a few years ago and prices for 75% of the 'big' stuff are pretty much on their a*ses now. Which leaves the door open nicely for some "that's cos it's sh*te" posts

For those that dont know,there's a lot of great 70's and 80's on the links below .. Including Keb Drge ,( although hes sold that set , I wonder what his new one's like ..) Dr Soul aka Hitoshi Takasawa , and Chris .B from Norway

https://www.soul45.org/

https://rhythmic_freedom.at.infoseek.co.jp/show.htm

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by Simon M

Hi!

Must agree with Ian, Jason and James: here in BCN there are 20 hardcore soulies at most, so when you're djing in a club there's no point in playing well know, "safe", northern-modern oldies as 95 % of the people on the dancefloor haven't the slightest idea of what "soul scene" is. So, you end up playing a mixture of funky soul, not so fast deep funk, modern soul and the odd northern and boogaloo tracks and, believe me, it goes down pretty well ( Ian, who's been Djing at Powder Room, can confirm that).

It's a much healthier way of having a night out: Have some drinks, try to pull a bird (or a boy), and dance to quality music: that's what club culture is all about, isn't it?. No politics involved, no trainspotters, no endless moaning about why did you play this or that...

By the way, is any of you playing at Jo Jo's on 4th of november?

Best!

Eduard

nice post jason, how could i possibly even try to follow it

but just to say you can add porto to the list, dj'ed there a couple of weeks ago at the brand new 'pitch' club, they'd spent a fortune renovating an old building with two floors, lovely wooden dance floor and a top sound system, but more importantly the predominantly young crowd were totally into the 'modern' stuff like ellipsis, mellow madness, motherfox, split decision band i.e. the funkier, more 'disco' orientated tunes, which as you say mixes in great with the straight funk, pretty similar to your night in finland tho in that straight (60's) northern wasnt called for or requested, or indeed wouldnt have fitted in at all

For those that dont know a lot of great 70's and 80's on the link below .. Including Keb Drge , although hes sold that set , I wonder what his new one's like ..

https://www.soul45.org/

Deeprockabilly

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by James Trouble

Deeprockabilly

What the f&*k is that ?

What the f&*k is that ?

Elvis, Carl Perkins. That sort of thing. The kids love it at Jo Jos

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by James Trouble

Elvis, Carl Perkins. That sort of thing. The kids love it at Jo Jos

Does Keb wear a wig then ..He did have some large turnups on his jeans

Hi Edu, nice to meet you also on this forum!

Cheers, Marco

Hi!

Must agree with Ian, Jason and James: here in BCN there are 20 hardcore soulies at most, so when you're djing in a club there's no point in playing well know, "safe", northern-modern oldies as 95 % of the people on the dancefloor haven't the slightest idea of what "soul scene" is. So, you end up playing a mixture of funky soul, not so fast deep funk, modern soul and the odd northern and boogaloo tracks and, believe me, it goes down pretty well ( Ian, who's been Djing at Powder Room, can confirm that).

It's a much healthier way of having a night out: Have some drinks, try to pull a bird (or a boy), and dance to quality music: that's what club culture is all about, isn't it?. No politics involved, no trainspotters, no endless moaning about why did you play this or that...

Best!

Eduard

Hi Edu, nice to meet you also on this forum!

Cheers, Marco

Hi, Marco!

Been here for three years, but started to have log in problems half a year ago and i quit...

Edu

Best get yourself to Smokin Tees at Stroud Rugby Club Friday week (October 6th) then Mikey - that sort of stuff is likely to get played along with more recent stuff and, as the night goes on and the beers sinks in, plenty Northern oldies as well. In fact, whatever goes!

DJ's Andy Edwards, Meg, and some bloke called Hippo guesting

Surely this is the way to stop this Oldies Vs Newies argument. A bit of something for everyone. One room, a selection of DJ's playing various genres of soul music that is generally played on the Northern and Rare soul scenes.

If the modern stuff or other comes on and someone doesn't like it then it's a good time for the bar, natter etc.

Just a view of course.

KTF.

Drew.

Very true Jbrew ..The UK scene has had a divide for decades ( Mecca v Wigan etc) but the Global scenes you mention do seem to use the more Funky and Modern tunes to good affect to younger crowds .with no real divide .

Its really is refreshing to communicate with people on these scenes

Good point about past divides, too much politics, back stabbing etc had a detrimental effect on the scene in the late 70's and later. The key now is to surely find a consistent way of attracting younger Soulies to the scene without having to rely too heavily on this years trend/fad/genre which in itself is divisive.

The music collectively can always be known as Northern Soul but it will never be, and can never be, about what happeneed at Wigan/The Mecca/Stafford. The past is a signpost to the future and the scene will need to rely upon a constant re-assessment of the qualities of the music and keep it fresh for the future generations.

For what it's worth I believe that this can only be realistically achived by embracing all of the genres - Oldies, Modern, R&B, etc etc and delivering the goods in a collective format that leaves the punters wanting more, not less. We are the custodians of the music and it cannot be allowed to slowly die simply because the concentration is on this element or that element at any one moment in time. Surly all quality sounds have a part to play rather than be marginalised due to the need to create the next scene.

For gods sake John Manships guide has 40,000 tracks in it with probably as many more again to be listened to . You would think that this would be enough to sustain the scene without the need to factionalise.

Not the rantings of a grumpy old man, just somebody who hopes the next generation is ready!

Elvis, Carl Perkins. That sort of thing. The kids love it at Jo Jos

Well I didn't.

Spoke to Keb about it and he said he got the same good feeling from listening to rockabilly as from soul.

Interesting thread btw. In Malmoe, Sweden, we've got two soul-orientated clubs and as long as the music's got a nice beat people will dance to it, i.e. everything from 60's northern to funk and 80's disco. It's all about how good you are at promoting and presenting.

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by Helena

What the f&*k is that ?

shite white-trash 50s yokel music with yodelling

like northern soul, it is quite minimalistic - but mainly just cos it's shite

shite white-trash 50s yokel music with yodelling

like northern soul, it is quite minimalistic - but mainly just cos it's shite

Hey Mark, there were quite a few NS fans seen at the rockabilly/R&B nights around Manchester in the 80's. Carl Perkins "Put your cat clothes on" or Boyd Bennet "My boy flat-top" etc were almost as electric played loud in a club as Northern.

Proud to be White-trash

ROD

We were discussing the merits of having a modern oldies night. Songs that were new when played on the scene (Or reasonably new anyway), but are now up to 20 years old.

Oh God no, isn't the northern oldies scene scary enough for you?!!