The Martiniques and Tootsie Rollers on Me-O both sound to me like Detroit recordings.  There was a long-time Detroit group called The Martiniques on Danceland Records.  I think I've seen Thurman Hollis' name, (writer producer on both of my Me-O records) on other Detroit records.  And Sandy Hollis (possibly his daughter or wife?) was associated with Detroit's Big Wheel Records (where "T. Hollis" also appears as a writer).  H. Hunter also appears on Martiniques on Me-O and Danceland Records, and should be Detroit's Herschel Hunter, who was associated with Detroit's Astra Records, and was the lead singer of Detroit's Moments (Hit, Hit Productions Records).

Yet, I've heard many times from Soulies that The Tootsie Rollers was an L.A, record.  Both of my Me-Os look like L.A. pressings.  And, "H. Hunter" could also be L.A.'s Hank Hunter.  Could Me-O have been an L.A. label owned by an ex-Detroiter, releasing Detroit recordings?  Or, could it have been a label owned by an L.A. owner who leased 2 Detroit-produced records for his own release?  Could this be a situation similar to Doc Records in Pennsylvania releasing 2 L.A. Jobete - produced records received from Ed Cobb, Hal Davis or Marc Gordon?

We discussed it on here and on Detroit Forum some time ago and we pretty much came to the conclusion it wasn't a Detroit label.  Sure Tootsie Rollers was a Hollywood press?

previous topic 

 

But IMO nobody can't deny Tootsie Rollers sounds like 100% Detroit, doesn't it?

12 hours ago, chalky said:

We discussed it on here and on Detroit Forum some time ago and we pretty much came to the conclusion it wasn't a Detroit label.  Sure Tootsie Rollers was a Hollywood press?

previous topic 

 

I think Me-O was an L.A. label.  But, I think The Martiniques' production was Detroit, and am wondering whether The Tootsie Rollers was, as well.

3 minutes ago, Benji said:

But IMO nobody CAN'T deny Tootsie Rollers sounds like 100% Detroit, doesn't it?

That "double negative means the opposite of "nobody CAN deny".  Therefore, that means EVERYBODY can deny that The Tootsie Rollers' cuts sound 100% like Detroit.  But, I am guessing that you really mean that The Tootsie Rollers' cuts sound like they were cut in Detroit.  Is that not so?

 

Personally, I think they were cut in Detroit, and like The Martiniques' cuts, were leased to an L.A. label.  Or, the former owner of the masters moved to L.A. and released them there, or found a financier there to release them.

Robb, I'm bavarian. We use double negative all the time (for positive)

Of course I tried to say nobody can deny it sounds like 100% Detroit.

4 hours ago, Benji said:

Robb, I'm Bavarian. We use double negative all the time (for positive)

Of course I tried to say nobody can deny it sounds like 100% Detroit.

Bayerisch, eh?   Ha!  I have to put up with you lot 3 months every year.  Ich wohne in Schwabing in München, beim der Uni im Sommer.

Edited March 30, 20169 yr by RobbK

8 hours ago, Benji said:

But IMO nobody can't deny Tootsie Rollers sounds like 100% Detroit, doesn't it?

I agree Tootsie does sound Detroit and the Martiniques are from Detroit. 

From memory there's a family connection between former Motown artist Sherri Taylor with one of the Martiniques either being a brother or a brother -in-law .

Dave

Even to this day I've always thought "Give Me Love" sounds very similar to something else out of Detroit (like a Steve Mancha production perhaps?) but I haven't got the ears to figure it out properly. 

Over the years every time this record has cropped up in conversation I've always chipped in with the revelation that Tootsie Rollers was the name of a popular sweet at the time in America.

Guess I must've read it somewhere? But is it true?

If it is - it could mean that Tootsie Rollers isn't the singers actual real name - just a stage name or another singer singing under that name.

Derek

 

 The candy Tootsie Rolls were popular then and are still popular now.

Edited March 31, 20169 yr by the yank
to add picture

On 3/30/2016 at 06:33, Louise said:

From memory there's a family connection between former Motown artist Sherri Taylor with one of the Martiniques either being a brother or a brother -in-law .

Dave

The possible connection is Romeo Taylor who also had a 45 on the logo, same publishing etc. Dragging the ME -O logo from his christian name , probably owning the logo and pressing them up over on the west coast?

Andy

The Martiniques were Bobby Martin, Hershell Hunter, Andy Alonso, Robert Walker and Buford Fab Glanton. Flecher Sawyer replaced Walker.  They later became a trio.

I think they are Detroit recordings, I don't have the records anymore but, don't remember anything concrete suggesting they were west coast pressings?

with regard to the "DOC" records I don't believe there was any real Philly connection just a red herring to throw Motowns west coast office off the scent.

4 hours ago, Tony Smith said:

I think they are Detroit recordings, I don't have the records anymore but, don't remember anything concrete suggesting they were west coast pressings?

with regard to the "DOC" records I don't believe there was any real Philly connection just a red herring to throw Motown's west coast office off the scent.

ALL the Me-O records I've seen look like L.A. label styles, fonts and plastic.  They look just like Jimmy McFarland's RPR font (and all other RPR Records), and there are many other small L.A. labels from 1965-68 using that font.  They don't look like ANY Detroit pressings I've ever seen.  Romeo Taylor was likely, at least a partner in Me-O Records, as its in-house music publisher was Rocormeo, and Taylor was one of their 2 producers,  along with Thurman Hollis.  The "meo" portion stands for him.  The "Rocor" portion may stand for the label's financier partner.

They sound Detroit, Detroiters Herschel Hunter, The Martiniques, Romeo Taylor and a Hollis are involved (Detroiter Sandy Hollis is the only other Hollis known).  So, I'm convinced that the productions were done in Detroit.  But the pressings look like L.A. to me.

Edited April 1, 20169 yr by RobbK

I guess there's no one around better than me, to answer my own questions.  I was just looking through The Soulful Detroit Archives, and found a thread from 2002, in which Detroit R&B/Soul singer, Andy Alonzo and session musician Lynn Bruce made comments.  Alonzo had replaced Robert Walker in The Martiniques, when Walker left the group to team up with Robert Staunton, and form The Hit Pack.  Alonzo told us that The Martiniques early Danceland recordings were made at United Sound, and their last Danceland and Me-O cuts were made at Specialty Recordings (also in Detroit).  He said that Thurman Hollis was The Martiniques' manager.  Danceland was a long-time Detroit label, starting with 78s in 1949.  Me-O was located in Toledo, Ohio, but both The Martiniques' and Tootsie Rollers' recordings were made at Specialty, in Detroit.  So, I was right that they sounded like Detroit recordings.  He also mentioned that Herschel Hunter (member of The Martiniques and Detroiter, Ty Hunter's brother) was also with The Moments and The Tempos.  Apparently, The Martiniques' name came from founder and first lead singer, Bobby Martin.  Hunter and Walker also sang lead on some songs.

Edited December 31, 20213 yr by Robbk

Romeo Taylor is from Ohio but lived in LA at the time of the release of the records in question. Martiniques were from Detroit, Tootsie Rollers from Ohio (if I remember correctly). I've been in touch with Romeo for several years now. We're currently going through his little archive of tapes to find out what's there.

56 minutes ago, Dreskiboogie said:

Romeo Taylor is from Ohio but lived in LA at the time of the release of the records in question. Martiniques were from Detroit, Tootsie Rollers from Ohio (if I remember correctly). I've been in touch with Romeo for several years now. We're currently going through his little archive of tapes to find out what's there.

So, I was right about the pressings looking like they were done in L.A.  The recordings were done in Detroit, and Taylor was operating out of Toledo and L.A.

Yes, I believe that's correct. Maybe with the exception that Romeo was based in LA at that the time of these releases and not Toledo / LA.

6 hours ago, Dreskiboogie said:

Yes, I believe that's correct. Maybe with the exception that Romeo was based in LA at that the time of these releases and not Toledo / LA.

Meaning that he recorded them in Detroit while he lived in Toledo, but only had them pressed up after he had relocated to L.A.  OR, he already resided in L.A., but commuted back to Detroit to record groups he worked with because he had had previous connections with their people.  I tend to think it was the former situation, given that the SOUND of the cuts seems 1964-65, and those L.A. pressings, look like 1966 or 1967.  I think I found mine in 1967, and I had been scouring L.A. for records starting in Fall,1965 (when I arrived there to attend UCLA for undergraduate).

I believe some of the Me-O stuff was recorded in Detroit while Romeo resided in LA. I can't remember all the specifics but I'm not sure Romeo was present for the recordings. I think the recordings in question came from Thurman Hollis. Tootsie Rollers and Thurman Hollis might also have been from Ohio originally.

1 hour ago, Dreskiboogie said:

I believe some of the Me-O stuff was recorded in Detroit while Romeo resided in LA. I can't remember all the specifics but I'm not sure Romeo was present for the recordings. I think the recordings in question came from Thurman Hollis. Tootsie Rollers and Thurman Hollis might also have been from Ohio originally.

Thurman Hollis may have been from Toledo, originally, but he worked in Detroit some, as he was manager of The Martiniques, who all resided in Detroit, and he recorded them there.  Toledo is basically a suburb of Detroit, in any case.  The Tootsie Rollers may have been from Toledo.  I don't ever remember seeing any reference to their making personal appearances there, unlike The Martiniques, who made many, and were a well-known local group.

For what it's worth, the really quite amazing  release by Four Real, Inc - The Man (The MasterPlan) on Flying Eagles - which was a Thurman Hollis and Popcorn Wylie production and an Alan King (sic) (Ala King - so Wylie) published record had the catalogue number ME-O 129 ..

Discuss ..............................  :-)

Cheers

Richard

1 hour ago, Premium Stuff said:

For what it's worth, the really quite amazing  release by Four Real, Inc - The Man (The MasterPlan) on Flying Eagles - which was a Thurman Hollis and Popcorn Wylie production and an Alan King (sic) (Ala King - so Wylie) published record had the catalogue number ME-O 129 ..

Discuss ..............................  :-)

Cheers

Richard

That Four Real release (Me-O 129) was out in 1975.  I still think that Me-O 1002, Martiniques, and 1005, Tootsie Rollers, were recorded in late 1965 or 1966.  They may not have been released until 1967 (at latest).  Me-O 1001, "Give Your Love To Me"/"You Mean So Much To Me" by Richard Wright and The Star-Vells, sounds like it was recorded in 1965 or 1966 in Los Angeles.  It sounds NOTHING  like a Detroit recording, but very much like L.A.  Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that Richard Wright was an L.A. artist.  I'm sure i have several records by him and with writing credits by him on small L.A. labels.  I think that Romeo Taylor came to L.A. in 1965 or 1966, and brought his Toledo/Detroit production masters with him.  He also made some new productions in L.A.  He had 2 other releases that I know:  Me-O 222, by Joey Dee's (AKA Joe Dorgon):  "I Got To Have You"/"Your Love", and one on himself:  Romeo Taylor, Me-O RTM-1 & 2, "When You Made Love Parts 1 & 2".  All 4 of those sides sound like they were recorded in L.A. The Joey Dees record looks like a 1969 or 1970 pressing, and The Romeo Taylor looks like one from 1972 or 1973.  So, he may well have had Me-O operating all those years up to 1975, when he worked again with an old Detroit contact, and leased the production to Flying Eagles (or he and Wylie started a new label for their co-productions).

23 minutes ago, RobbK said:

That Four Real release (Me-O 129) was out in 1975.  I still think that Me-O 1002, Martiniques, and 1005, Tootsie Rollers, were recorded in late 1965 or 1966.  They may not have been released until 1967 (at latest).  Me-O 1001, "Give Your Love To Me"/"You Mean So Much To Me" by Richard Wright and The Star-Vells, sounds like it was recorded in 1965 or 1966 in Los Angeles.  It sounds NOTHING  like a Detroit recording, but very much like L.A.  Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that Richard Wright was an L.A. artist.  I'm sure i have several records by him and with writing credits by him on small L.A. labels.  I think that Romeo Taylor came to L.A. in 1965 or 1966, and brought his Toledo/Detroit production masters with him.  He also made some new productions in L.A.  He had 2 other releases that I know:  Me-O 222, by Joey Dee's (AKA Joe Dorgon):  "I Got To Have You"/"Your Love", and one on himself:  Romeo Taylor, Me-O RTM-1 & 2, "When You Made Love Parts 1 & 2".  All 4 of those sides sound like they were recorded in L.A. The Joey Dees record looks like a 1969 or 1970 pressing, and The Romeo Taylor looks like one from 1972 or 1973.  So, he may well have had Me-O operating all those years up to 1975, when he worked again with an old Detroit contact, and leased the production to Flying Eagles (or he and Wylie started a new label for their co-productions).

The catalogue numbers on the David Lenyard 45s are all flying eagles with no mention of ME-O, so perhaps Romeo Taylor  had split the scene by then?. 

1 minute ago, still diggin said:

The catalogue numbers on the David Lenyard 45s are all flying eagles with no mention of ME-O, so perhaps Romeo Taylor  had split the scene by then?. 

THAT points more to Romeo Taylor and Popcorn Wylie leasing their single independent production of Four Real to Flying Eagle (which was probably owned by someone else), rather than Taylor having been one of the principals at Flying Eagle.

.

Edited July 16, 20186 yr by tommypotts

Thanks!  I've never bid on an Internet auction.  I thought there should be an MP3 snippet of the song to hear.  I can't find one.  Can you please tell me what I click on to hear the song sample?  I want to listen to hear if it sounds like an L.A. or Detroit recording.

.

Edited July 16, 20186 yr by tommypotts

4 hours ago, tommypotts said:

Says 'Click to hear it" in the "Comments" section of the description 

Thanks!

All the Mary Ann Hendrix has is a rhythm and a lead guitar.  It's like a demo.  It could have been done anywhere.  I suspect that Romeo Taylor took four old masters from Detroit, with him to L.A., which were The Tootsie Rollers and The Martiniques, and interspersed their release in with material he produced in L.A.

On 26/04/2016 at 09:52, Robbk said:

All the Mary Ann Hendrix has is a rhythm and a lead guitar.  It's like a demo.  It could have been done anywhere.  I suspect that Romeo Taylor took four old masters from Detroit, with him to L.A., which were The Tootsie Rollers and The Martiniques, and interspersed their release in with material he produced in L.A.

I am sorry, but I am new to this site and thought would review this thread and it's potential results

I did find out that the first (I think) release on the Me-O label was this one 15th November 1965

Rocarmeo Music

624 West 41st Drive, 
Los Angeles 

I did wonder if there was a connection with Pam-O records

 

There was a Perfections group in Detroit from the later mid '60s into the '70s.  Rocarmeo Music being Romeo Taylor's, and the similarity of using the -O endings for the two label names, with both labels being located in Los Angeles makes it appear that Pam-O was a sister label of Taylor's, and was likely to have been named after Romeo's wife, ladyfriend, or daughter.  I always wondered about that situation.  I'm also guessing that the four names credited on The Perfections' song are that group's members, and should be checked against writing credits on The Perfections' Detroit records, to see if some of them appear, so we can firm or deny that this Pam-O group is the same Detroit group. 

57 minutes ago, Robbk said:

There was a Perfections group in Detroit from the later mid '60s into the '70s.  Rocarmeo Music being Romeo Taylor's, and the similarity of using the -O endings for the two label names, with both labels being located in Los Angeles makes it appear that Pam-O was a sister label of Taylor's, and was likely to have been named after Romeo's wife, ladyfriend, or daughter.  I always wondered about that situation.  I'm also guessing that the four names credited on The Perfections' song are that group's members, and should be checked against writing credits on The Perfections' Detroit records, to see if some of them appear, so we can firm or deny that this Pam-O group is the same Detroit group. 

This Perfections were certainly different Robb as they are all ladies/girls here is the A side 11th May 1965

All 3 release I know of on Pam-O have John Woodson (Johnny Woodson of The Crescendos ?) all over them, so maybe Romeo and he were connected in some way

 

 

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by Blackpoolsoul

It appears that maybe Romeo Taylor wasn't a hands-on producer, who had been a musician, or music writer,  but, perhaps, only wrote song lyrics, and was more of an executive producer, lining up the projects, and getting the people together, and making the deals.  It looks like he had Thurman Hollis run his recording sessions in Detroit/Toledo, and maybe had Johnny Woodson run his sessions in L.A., and that Woodson and he may have been partners in, at least, Pam-O.  Otherwise, Pam-O was Woodson's alone, but he had some working agreement with Taylor.  But the similarity of the 2 label names, AND Woodson using a song from Taylor's music publishing company is too much of a coincidence for there to be no strong connection.  Was Woodson's name on any of the Me-O records?

7 minutes ago, Robbk said:

It appears that maybe Romeo Taylor wasn't a hands-on producer, who had been a musician, or music writer,  but, perhaps, only wrote song lyrics, and was more of an executive producer, lining up the projects, and getting the people together, and making the deals.  It looks like he had Thurman Hollis run his recording sessions in Detroit/Toledo, and maybe had Johnny Woodson run his sessions in L.A., and that Woodson and he may have been partners in, at least, Pam-O.  Otherwise, Pam-O was Woodson's alone, but he had some working agreement with Taylor.  But the similarity of the 2 label names, AND Woodson using a song from Taylor's music publishing company is too much of a coincidence for there to be no strong connection.  Was Woodson's name on any of the Me-O records?

Not that I have ever seen

https://www.discogs.com/label/724670-Me-O-Records

I'd like to listen to The George Hammonds and The Star-Vells (I'm almost certain they were an L.A. (rather than Detroit) group.  I'm sure it will sound like an L.A., rather than Detroit, recording.  But, unfortunately, it is not on You-Tube.  Can you post a sound file of it, or link to one?

https://www.45cat.com/artist/george-hammonds-and-the-starvells

Soundclip available Robb, I don't own one

Interesting thread. For what it’s worth, I bought my copy of the Martineques on Me-O in Detroit in the mid 1990’s. Has anyone else out there found a copy in the wild, and if so where? There are 9 copies on Popsike, one of which has sold twice; four copies appear to be from the same source. So, this is a very rare and highly desirable record. The scarcity reflects very low sales, possibly in a single, local market, quite probably an urban area like Detroit.

3 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

https://www.45cat.com/artist/george-hammonds-and-the-starvells

Soundclip available Robb, I don't own one

I still can't hear it.  I don't want to risk taking the free trial for Amazon Music, and then get billed for buying that service when I don't want it. I've had those situations before on free trials, in which I was not notified that the free trial was over, and the provider said I had ordered it.  It was a big hassle to get it all undone.  Does anyone else have a soundfile of it?

7 minutes ago, Robbk said:

I still can't hear it.  I don't want to risk taking the free trial for Amazon Music, and then get billed for buying that service when I don't want it. I've had those situations before on free trials, in which I was not notified that the free trial was over, and the provider said I had ordered it.  It was a big hassle to get it all undone.  Does anyone else have a soundfile of it?

Its on youtube Robb

 

13 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Interesting thread. For what it’s worth, I bought my copy of the Martineques on Me-O in Detroit in the mid 1990’s. Has anyone else out there found a copy in the wild, and if so where? There are 9 copies on Popsike, one of which has sold twice; four copies appear to be from the same source. So, this is a very rare and highly desirable record. The scarcity reflects very low sales, possibly in a single, local market, quite probably an urban area like Detroit.

I found my white DJ of it in Pat's Record shop in South L.A. in late 1965, in a budget bin.  I've seen about 15-17 copies of the white DJ in shops, and 5 store stockers (both red and pinkish/beige).  I've seen themthroughout the late 1960s and early '70s  in Chicago and L.A., and San Francisco Bay Area (Oakland), and, if I remember correctly, Seattle.  It seemed much more common as a DJ issue.  It was likely to havebbeen in some quantities in Detroit, as well, as the group and producer were from there, and probably helped market it (although I never found one there in many Saturdays of making the rounds of the record shops and thrift and junk stores.

Thanks Chalky.  That just proves I don't know how to conduct a search.  I typed "George Hammonds and The Star-vells - 'Baby, I'm Leaving You' " on the search bar on You-Tube, and lots of songs with that title came up, but none were George Hammonds.  The writing of the song, especially the harmony of the call-and response chorus, sounds very Detroitish (1960-63 R&B sound)- like that used by Smokey Robinson in his 1960-62 songwriting for fast group songs, and in Lamont Dozier's "I Didn't Know".  But the instruments sound like they are being played by L.A. players, rather than the Detroiters I'm used to hearing.  I don't recognise Timothy Allen as a Detroit OR L.A. writer.  But, I remember The Star-Vells recording for several small L.A. labels.  So, I suspect this was NOT one of the master tapes Taylor brought with him from Detroit.

21 hours ago, Robbk said:

I found my white DJ of it in Pat's Record shop in South L.A. in late 1965, in a budget bin.  I've seen about 15-17 copies of the white DJ in shops, and 5 store stockers (both red and pinkish/beige).  I've seen themthroughout the late 1960s and early '70s  in Chicago and L.A., and San Francisco Bay Area (Oakland), and, if I remember correctly, Seattle.  It seemed much more common as a DJ issue.  It was likely to havebbeen in some quantities in Detroit, as well, as the group and producer were from there, and probably helped market it (although I never found one there in many Saturdays of making the rounds of the record shops and thrift and junk stores.

Wow. That’s a wide scatter of locations. Never seen a DJ copy of the Martineques. Only seen it on a deep blue-purple label. Always suspected it was a Detroit record and it would be nice to have that confirmed.

Edited September 16, 20195 yr by Frankie Crocker
typo

6 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Wow. That’s a wide scatter of locations. Never seen a DJ copy of the Martiniques. Only seen it on a deep blue-purple label. Always suspected it was a Detroit record and it would be nice to have that confirmed.

Well, I think we've confirmed that The Martiniques' cuts were recorded in Detroit, but their records were pressed in L.A.

9 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Wow. That’s a wide scatter of locations. Never seen a DJ copy of the Martineques. Only seen it on a deep blue-purple label. Always suspected it was a Detroit record and it would be nice to have that vonfirmed.

The DJ copy was here which is the thread, I think, mentioned earlier

 

19 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Wow. That’s a wide scatter of locations. Never seen a DJ copy of the Martineques. Only seen it on a deep blue-purple label. Always suspected it was a Detroit record and it would be nice to have that confirmed.

Here's a scan of The Martineques' white DJ issue:

One of the Martiniques joined the Detroit Soul group on facebook and a photo was posted.

The photo was from Ty Hunter Jr....

My late uncle Herschel Hunter (far right), Andrew Alonzo and member as the Detroit male vocal group, The Martiniques. 

Herschel was also an original member of the Hot Wax label mens vocal group, 100 Proof.

Herschel was also a later member of The Monitors and The Royal Jokers.

 

Andrew Alonzo says the other guy is Bobby (Mello Yellow) Martin Willingham.

Edited October 8, 20195 yr by Chalky

Herschel Hunter was also lead singer of The Moments, who recorded for Robert Bateman and Herman Griffin at Hit productions and Hit Records, and also sang with The Tempos for Diamond Jim Riley (Riley's, and Diamond Jim Records).  A talented family, having brothers Ty and Herschel Hunter.

Edited December 31, 20213 yr by Robbk

The ME-O 45s were pressed by RCA Hollywood.